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Truck Attack in France Kills 70+

12467

Posts

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Associates always describe people as loners. Even if they weren't... especially if they weren't. It's easier to think of them as not part of society at all ever and pretend this sort of shit is a surprise.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    Not saying they aren't. It's just a pretty easy way to "them" the shit out of anything and make it not anyone's problem or failure to notice.

  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.

    NSDFRand on
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    Not saying they aren't. It's just a pretty easy way to "them" the shit out of anything and make it not anyone's problem or failure to notice.

    Furthermore, this pushes all the effort on the loner and ignores the fact that society creates barriers to community involvement that further work to isolate those who don't meet the standard.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.


    A fair part of my thinking was related to a NPR piece about how a Scandinavia town's police department ended up getting really positive results from identifying potential and radicalized kids from the middle easter community and taking steps to reach out and help them with the various crap in their lives and being non threatening and confrontational.

    Cults and religions and militaries and gang tend to target this same group(less so of the us military right now). Cause it's kinda easy to get them to join up and be committed. You get the right person in front of them, and...

    But that cuts both ways. If we spend however many decades is required putting people in front of vulnerable children and young adults. Make it a priority and make it the norm. I think it fixes a lot of problems.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.


    A fair part of my thinking was related to a NPR piece about how a Scandinavia town's police department ended up getting really positive results from identifying potential and radicalized kids from the middle easter community and taking steps to reach out and help them with the various crap in their lives and being non threatening and confrontational.

    Cults and religions and militaries and gang tend to target this same group(less so of the us military right now). Cause it's kinda easy to get them to join up and be committed. You get the right person in front of them, and...

    But that cuts both ways. If we spend however many decades is required putting people in front of vulnerable children and young adults. Make it a priority and make it the norm. I think it fixes a lot of problems.

    I'm not sure how successful, or feasible, this would be for many places. I imagine their officers per 1000 citizens is pretty high. The US has about 5 per 1000 people across the country, but that's raised significantly by larger departments like LAPD, LASD, and NYPD. A huge majority sit at 2 or less per 1000 people.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.


    A fair part of my thinking was related to a NPR piece about how a Scandinavia town's police department ended up getting really positive results from identifying potential and radicalized kids from the middle easter community and taking steps to reach out and help them with the various crap in their lives and being non threatening and confrontational.

    Cults and religions and militaries and gang tend to target this same group(less so of the us military right now). Cause it's kinda easy to get them to join up and be committed. You get the right person in front of them, and...

    But that cuts both ways. If we spend however many decades is required putting people in front of vulnerable children and young adults. Make it a priority and make it the norm. I think it fixes a lot of problems.

    I'm not sure how successful, or feasible, this would be for many places. I imagine their officers per 1000 citizens is pretty high. The US has about 5 per 1000 people across the country, but that's raised significantly by larger departments like LAPD, LASD, and NYPD. A huge majority sit at 2 or less per 1000 people.

    They were smallish.

    It would require additional resources, and the state there is empowered to solve a lot more problems than the one here is. It feels like they had much better connections with the community at large, compared to one finds in the us.

    Some of that I imagine one develops if you deal full time with a specific chunk of the community. If you can identify potential... whatever, I don't know if the size of the community or the resource allocation does much to the utility of the time spent. Like, it is potentially useful if you do a little among higher risk individuals... or some other metric regardless of how little.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack.

    Of course ISIS claims responsibility for everything they can. So grain of salt.

  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Guys like this douchnozzle don't really need a religion or cause. They simply latch on to one and use it as an excuse.

    This guy and the guy that killed the MP in Britain probably have more in common then either would admit.

    The Dallas Shooter, the Columbine Killers and Anders Brevik would be equal comparison.

    As for causes: 40 years ago it would have been Revolutionary Communist Vanguard like the Directe Action and the Weathermen.

    60 years ago it would have been Anti-colonialist pan-arab.

    100 years ago: Anarchist "Equalist" bomb-thrower.

    These guys have been around and are not going away.

    The Dallas Shooter is more like an insurgent vs. an occupying force. Lot in common with white militias though.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Rchanen wrote: »
    ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack.

    Of course ISIS claims responsibility for everything they can. So grain of salt.

    One day I couldnt find my shoes and I got a tweet from them claiming responsibility, so yeah

    jungleroomx on
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    art aint always genteel

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    Faux Arabic script and skulls is what I see.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    Arabic script.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    I mean the image as a whole rather than the Arabic script specifically. I find the whole thing grossly distasteful.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    Faux Arabic script and skulls is what I see.

    The Arabic script didn't even pop for me initially, just the skulls. Yeah that's shitty.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    Faux Arabic script and skulls is what I see.

    The Arabic script didn't even pop for me initially, just the skulls. Yeah that's shitty.

    I only say faux because I can't make them out. Even if I could I barely do English with a C+ proficiency.

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    For the first time, I got into an argument with random strangers having a Daily Mail style rant on the bus. Which, given I have an anxiety disorder, really drives home how pissed off I am today.

    It pretty much went like this.

    Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
    Woman: "No!"
    Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
    Me: "So does yours."
    Both: "What?!"
    Me: "Christian, right?"
    Both: "...yes..."
    Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
    Man: "No it doesn't!"
    Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
    Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
    Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
    Woman: "That's right!"
    Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
    *both shut up*

    I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.

    The 10 commandments don't apply anymore. Two new commandments from Christ (that overrode the old ones) were Love God and Love your fellow man as yourself. The 10 commandments are still good rules in general so it's probably why they are still brought up, though.

    I mean, it's true that the OT doesn't apply to Christianity. Thats the whole point of the New Testament.

    Just figured I'd point that out before you try that again on someone more knowledgeable.

    Except for the whole "not one jot or tittle" thing and "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it".

    What you're giving right now is the preferred harmonisation for a disparate collection of books that, in part, record some of the disagreements between the so called Matthean and Jamesean Christians, one faction of which held that Gentile converts had to follow the Old Testament, one that held the opposite - they were mostly focused on circumcision (because, let's face it, that is if a rather pressing urgency) but their disagreement was about the whole of the laws within the Old Testament.

    Now, your harmonisation is certainly the most practically and morally convenient but it is hardly obvious from the text and next to impossible to defend as the obviously correct interpretation.

    Which is, of course, the problem with religion as a whole and interjections such as that of Desktop Hippie. Firstly, there's no "yardstick" for correctness except the text and no one gives a single fig about that, and is simply not how religions operate in the real world. Secondly, such a general defense and that it was phrased as a defense at all is misconstrued - the conversation ought have gone toward a general criticism of religion not a defense of Islam in its many forms based upon the logic of a tu quoque

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I cannot figure out what you are talking about. What is in the tracks?

    Faux Arabic script and skulls is what I see.

    The Arabic script didn't even pop for me initially, just the skulls. Yeah that's shitty.

    I only say faux because I can't make them out. Even if I could I barely do English with a C+ proficiency.

    لا إله إلا الله (there is no god but God) repeated. It's the first half of the shahada.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.


    A fair part of my thinking was related to a NPR piece about how a Scandinavia town's police department ended up getting really positive results from identifying potential and radicalized kids from the middle easter community and taking steps to reach out and help them with the various crap in their lives and being non threatening and confrontational.

    Cults and religions and militaries and gang tend to target this same group(less so of the us military right now). Cause it's kinda easy to get them to join up and be committed. You get the right person in front of them, and...

    But that cuts both ways. If we spend however many decades is required putting people in front of vulnerable children and young adults. Make it a priority and make it the norm. I think it fixes a lot of problems.

    I'm not sure how successful, or feasible, this would be for many places. I imagine their officers per 1000 citizens is pretty high. The US has about 5 per 1000 people across the country, but that's raised significantly by larger departments like LAPD, LASD, and NYPD. A huge majority sit at 2 or less per 1000 people.

    On the large scale it'd have another sort of organization to do it, probably full time.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    That cartoon is Mark Millar levels gross.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    I hate the misuse of the Shahada.

    I'm OK with the rest of it.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    It would be fine as the cover of a 90s Vertigo comic. For this purpose, it is distasteful.

    Phillishere on
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    eh, social isolation and alienation are also actually very closely tied to acts of mass violence.

    I firmly believe we could throw billions of dollars at widespread active social work programs, and we could eliminate a lot of the mass shootings and suicides.

    That's part of the appeal of terrorist groups. When socialization is a factor for radicalization, it isn't only a factor in groups staying together or individuals within close proximity to those already radicalized becoming so, but also the appeal of socialization of the group.

    One other "classical" motivation is the assertion of identity for the actor. That also likely plays a role in self radicalization towards violence, and I think two good non terrorism examples of that are Chris Mercer and Elliot Rodger.


    A fair part of my thinking was related to a NPR piece about how a Scandinavia town's police department ended up getting really positive results from identifying potential and radicalized kids from the middle easter community and taking steps to reach out and help them with the various crap in their lives and being non threatening and confrontational.

    Cults and religions and militaries and gang tend to target this same group(less so of the us military right now). Cause it's kinda easy to get them to join up and be committed. You get the right person in front of them, and...

    But that cuts both ways. If we spend however many decades is required putting people in front of vulnerable children and young adults. Make it a priority and make it the norm. I think it fixes a lot of problems.

    I'm not sure how successful, or feasible, this would be for many places. I imagine their officers per 1000 citizens is pretty high. The US has about 5 per 1000 people across the country, but that's raised significantly by larger departments like LAPD, LASD, and NYPD. A huge majority sit at 2 or less per 1000 people.

    On the large scale it'd have another sort of organization to do it, probably full time.

    That's likely what it would require. And a large agency at that, because 2 or less officers per 1000 might not cut it.

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    It'll probably be in some sort of museum in 50 years

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    This is my problem when its a violent North African or Middle Eastern extremist, or a bowl cut idiot from the hills of South Carolina.

    Everyone wants to conglomerate these people as examples of their groups, to avoid the unpleasant truth that individuals sometimes make violent and logically unsound decisions and kill people.

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    What do you mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam? Religious solidarity rarely holds up against sectarian differences on a local level.

    I mean, it is possible that ISIS's religiousity is a smokescreen but not, I think, a likely one, in particular given that much of ISIS's ambitions reflect al-Bagdadi's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to Islamic eschatology. But in general the information, as presented within the post has no necessary connection with relative religiousity or concern.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    What do you mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam? Religious solidarity rarely holds up against sectarian differences on a local level.

    I mean, it is possible that ISIS's religiousity is a smokescreen but not, I think, a likely one, in particular given that much of ISIS's ambitions reflect al-Bagdadi's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to Islamic eschatology. But in general the information, as presented within the post has no necessary connection with relative religiousity or concern.

    They're saying that this is being regularly presented as "Muslim People vs Us" situation, where everyone who appears middle eastern gets shoved in the "Muslim" camp. ISIL doesn't actually care about a person's religion when they kill them. They aren't that targeted in their attacks, which are often indiscriminate in the way that bombs and bullets tend to be. Which means that the vast majority of the victims of groups like ISIL and al-Qaeda are ignored because they're considered to be "part of the problem".
    When people use the Shahada to represent these attacks or the attackers they're implying that all Muslims are responsible for the attacks, completely ignoring that the people most likely to be killed by these organizations are Muslim. They don't even have a clear understanding of the motive, but it has already been decided by the public at large that this is another Islamic attack.

    Also that lone wolf attackers will continue to claim to be part of a larger, more prominent group, and the media attention afforded to them because of that means that people who carry out attacks on their own volition are lumped in with those groups creating the false perception of an insurgency. Their claims of membership are immediately seized on as if they are valid despite their lack of connection and despite these individuals already having made up their minds to do something before contacting other groups. Which furthers the "Muslim People vs Us" rhetoric in the media. It's reached the point that there doesn't even need to be a claim on the side of the attacker outside of their ethnicity for them to be lumped in with terrorist organizations. This in spite of the large number of attacks that continue to happen without any Middle Eastern involvement at all.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    What do you mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam? Religious solidarity rarely holds up against sectarian differences on a local level.

    I mean, it is possible that ISIS's religiousity is a smokescreen but not, I think, a likely one, in particular given that much of ISIS's ambitions reflect al-Bagdadi's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to Islamic eschatology. But in general the information, as presented within the post has no necessary connection with relative religiousity or concern.

    I mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam. They don't. It's a war for territory, not a religious war. Devout Muslims do not bomb the most popular Muslim country during the holiest week of Ramadam. FFS, even the UVF and IRA took every Christmas off.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    What do you mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam? Religious solidarity rarely holds up against sectarian differences on a local level.

    I mean, it is possible that ISIS's religiousity is a smokescreen but not, I think, a likely one, in particular given that much of ISIS's ambitions reflect al-Bagdadi's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to Islamic eschatology. But in general the information, as presented within the post has no necessary connection with relative religiousity or concern.

    I mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam. They don't. It's a war for territory, not a religious war. Devout Muslims do not bomb the most popular Muslim country during the holiest week of Ramadam. FFS, even the UVF and IRA took every Christmas off.

    There's more than one kind of Muslim, and to extremist salafis like ISIS, those differences mean you're an apostate

    For example, as far as ISIS is concerned the entire nation of Iran is basically full of apostates, unless my understanding is incorrect

    override367 on
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    I've seen several cartoons and front pages with a similar theme, but this one hit me the hardest.


    It took me a while to notice the detail in the tracks

    That's revolting.

    I don't disagree and yet I kind of think it's utterly perfect.

    It's a reprehensible image but so is the tragedy it represents.

    If I see that image in 20 years? I'm going to know exactly what it's about.

    I'm not sure how to describe the way I feel about it. I don't like it but at the same time I don't think I'm supposed to. On top of which I kind of admire how explicitly it manages to capture the horror of what happened. If that makes any sense?

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    That looks like something ISIS' propaganda department would come up with

    probably (hopefully) not what the artist was going for

    I think that's why this one hit me so hard. I've seen similar images on everything from Twitter to the front page of the Irish Examiner, but none of them had the stuff going on with the tyre tracks and this one is from the freaking Guardian. Those guys are officially supposed to know better.

    Probably didn't see it.

    All I saw was the skulls, the Arabic script had to be pointed out to me before I noticed it.

    Unless you look real close its just tire tracks.

    I mean, I get the idea they were going for, and like I said a lot of artists went with a similar theme. There was one - I think it was the same illustration on the front page of the Examiner - that had red footprints trailing away from the red part of the flag, and that was just... urgh.

    But this... I mean, the skulls I could forgive, but quoting the freaking Shahada? HUNDREDS of Muslims were blown to pieces or burned alive during the holiest week of Ramadam this year! We STILL haven't figured out that ISIS don't give a flying fuck about Islam? We get a SECOND man who is some low rent wife beating petty criminal wannabe badass who claims to be the biggest baddest terrorist ever when he probably couldn't point Iraq out on a map, never mind having a fucking clue who the current head of ISIS is, and we just go along with the pretence that he was actually a devout Muslim who just never actually attended a fucking mosque?! That this is totally an Islamic extremist thing?!

    I am spectacularly not okay with this. This is the sort of shit I expect from The Sun. Do better, The Guardian. Do a lot fucking better.

    What do you mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam? Religious solidarity rarely holds up against sectarian differences on a local level.

    I mean, it is possible that ISIS's religiousity is a smokescreen but not, I think, a likely one, in particular given that much of ISIS's ambitions reflect al-Bagdadi's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to Islamic eschatology. But in general the information, as presented within the post has no necessary connection with relative religiousity or concern.

    I mean ISIS don't give a fuck about Islam. They don't. It's a war for territory, not a religious war. Devout Muslims do not bomb the most popular Muslim country during the holiest week of Ramadam. FFS, even the UVF and IRA took every Christmas off.

    Devout Muslims don't? Says who? As override points out there are entirely different kinds of Muslims who, to various degree hold varying degrees of explicitly religious animosity (further complicated by centuries of this animosity influencing political realities)

    But the thesis you're defending leaves a variety of unanswered questions, why THIS territory, why not bomb Sunni mosques, why execute homosexuals by throwing them from buildings, why is Dabiq such an important location?

    Apothe0sis on
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