The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[D&D 5E] Xanathar's Guide to Striking a Nerve

1828385878899

Posts

  • Nerdsamwich Nerdsamwich Registered User regular
    On the other hand, wood creatures being vulnerable to fire is kind of silly. I mean, hold a green log and your arm over the same flame and see which one comes out in better shape.

  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    So we hit level 3 in the Out Of The Abyss game last week. In celebration I've bit the bullet and ordered a hero forge mini of my character.

    Podrus of clan Gerther.

    2q0qbnysnmcq.png

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
    ElvenshaeRhesus PositiveAldonever dieMrVyngaardRingoBucketman
  • RainfallRainfall If you do not repay me, I will RECLAIM the ball.Registered User regular
    ARE YOU READY!
    TO KILL!
    A DRAGON!

    UlfreBY.png
    Gaddez
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    On the other hand, wood creatures being vulnerable to fire is kind of silly. I mean, hold a green log and your arm over the same flame and see which one comes out in better shape.

    *has bad flashbacks of youtube videos explaining that lettuce you buy from big box stores is fake using this method*

    If anything, Dryads and other plant based monsters should be resistant to flames and weak to cold.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Counterpoint: fire is inherently cool and is already the most common resistance/immunity. I want my characters to do cool stuff like shooting fire from their hands and be rewarded, not punished, for doing the most iconic Magic User Thing.

    RainfallRendElvenshaeMrGrimoireMegaMek
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    I've personally never dissected a dryad or treant. Maybe the goo that makes them go is flammable.

    Elvenshae
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Counterpoint: fire is inherently cool and is already the most common resistance/immunity. I want my characters to do cool stuff like shooting fire from their hands and be rewarded, not punished, for doing the most iconic Magic User Thing.

    Right. Unless a game's whole magic system is based on dealing with weaknesses etc(ie: Pokémon) it is just an annoyance to keep track of resistance values.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    I've personally never dissected a dryad or treant. Maybe the goo that makes them go is flammable.

    Entirely possible depending on where the dryads or treants reside. Perhaps the water is contaminated?

    Or it is an undead dryad or treant, and in its desiccated state is conducive to flames?

    Anything is possible with make-believe! :P

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
    Einzel
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Counterpoint: fire is inherently cool and is already the most common resistance/immunity. I want my characters to do cool stuff like shooting fire from their hands and be rewarded, not punished, for doing the most iconic Magic User Thing.

    Right. Unless a game's whole magic system is based on dealing with weaknesses etc(ie: Pokémon) it is just an annoyance to keep track of resistance values.

    It's not that hard in D&D (or at least in 5e). If a creature has resistance to a given element it takes half damage. If it's got vulnerability to a given element it takes double damage.
    The weird thing is that very few creatures actually have any vulnerabilities. Earth elementals to thunder damage and assorted skeletons to blunt damage. Might be some others, I haven't read the entirety of the Monster Manual.

    I just found it odd that so many creatures had resistance to some form of damage, but so few had weakness built into them.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Once I ate a pizza so big, they gave me a prize. Then I threw up and they took it back.Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    The problem with Vulnerability is that x2 damage is really strong. It can allow a Wizard whose player has read the Monster Manual to trivialize a lot of fights. And WotC is unwilling to further complicate the system by adding lesser values of vulnerability, since x2 or /2 are the most complicated math they seem to want to risk inflicting on us. So instead it's just a really rare trait.

    When I make homebrew critters I include damage vulnerability all the time, but I also usually include vulnerable creatures in mixed groups, so that a single well-placed (Element) Blast doesn't clear the entire playing field. And I avoid vulnerabilities in Boss Monsters unless it's part of a specific tactical gimmick, or something near impossible to extract due to lore reasons, like a Vampire not liking Radiant damage.

    Edit: There was half a dead sentence stuck to the end of that, and I'm not sure what else I was thinking of saying.

    The Hanged Man on
    TUMBLR: canstthoudrawoutleviathan.tumblr.com (tabletop RPG anecdotes & art)
    TWITTER: @DesertLeviathan, PSN: LeviathanAscends, 3DS FRIEND CODE: 1590-4800-2407
    vGZZ5K0.png
    tastydonutsMrVyngaard
  • FuselageFuselage Bantha Three ValhallaRegistered User regular
    Accepted into the beta for Journey to Ragnarok, a Norse Mythology themed campaign setting.

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Forgive me if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this but I couldn't quite find what I was looking for.

    My wife finally got the mustered the courage to try a one-shot quest of Pathfinder at gencon. She actually really enjoyed it and we are working on trying to put together a local rpg group. I say RPG group instead of Pathfinder group because we are not sure which system will be the best fit.

    Personally I have played palladium systems (rifts) previously but nothing d&d or Pathfinder related. Even then it was years ago so I may as well be brand new. While TMNT, rifts, and some other stuff are in the running I anticipate that we will end up settling on d&d or Pathfinder.

    Can anyone describe the differences between the two? To focus the question more: which system is more effective for complete newbies looking for a more structured introduction? While we will definitely want to branch out and be more creative, the wife and I are in agreement with the people we are likely to play with something a little more concrete and easily digestable would be a better start.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    5e is definitely easier to handle. I'd recommend it.

    FuselageSmrtnikwebguy20WingedWeaselRingoMrVyngaardMegaMekNyhtBucketman
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Can anyone describe the differences between the two? To focus the question more: which system is more effective for complete newbies looking for a more structured introduction? While we will definitely want to branch out and be more creative, the wife and I are in agreement with the people we are likely to play with something a little more concrete and easily digestable would be a better start.

    Practical Difference: 5e has a handful of books and options. They haven't published a whole lot of secondary stuff so mostly characters are built from the PHB or maybe something from the Wizards website. Pathfinder has a fuck ton of options and like a bajillion books if you want. This isn't really a money cost concern as almost all of it is up on the Pathfinder Reference Document website but it can be overwhelming. Up to you if you think focused options is better than wide variety of options.

    Mechanical:
    Pathfinder is a direct descendant (/clone-ish) of 3rd edition D&D. This tried to establish a framework of how the world worked that the rules described. Stuff like "Does wearing leather armor AND having my skin magically toughened to be like bark make me harder to hurt?" has a logical answer based on a solid framework. That's good but that framework can sometimes let you pile a bunch of things together and just get stupidly hard to hurt because it is where the logic leads. Probably not an issue with a bunch of new players and depending on how you think may be a positive because of the framework.

    5e is more akin to older edition of 2nd edition which were built up on a case by case basis. It has some influence from 3rd but it rejected a whole lot of things from it that lead to a more "natural language" approach. This can make for easier reading but somewhat more fuzzy rules. Fuzzy rules are sometimes viewed as a positive by some folks and 5e is really not the game that is gonna give you grief for just deciding something as the DM. At the same time, some of the rule can be internally conflicting but without that framework, it's less of an issue.

    Newbs: Both of them have solid intro stuff available and start off not terribly complicated. Both of them can "officially" limit your later options because of choices at 1st level but for newbs that's not likely to be a huge issue.

    You had some weird games listed there so I'm gonna also suggest maybe look into 13th Age. It is definitely more rules fuzzy but in a way that is geared to give the players more influence on creating a fantasy story intentionally. Pathfinder/5e both basically give you a war game framework and let you plaster a story over top and hope the system doesn't screw it up. 13th Age is built the other way round while still feeling very D&D to me. If you'd like more detail just @ me over in the general roleplaying thread and I can provide some.

    RendWingedWeasel
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    Roll20 is really your best option for online tools right now. The shared grid for maps/minis is really required for most D&D-alikes. EDIT: Oh, I'd also only use roll20 for the map/roller. I'd use Dyscord for voice (and soon to be video if you want.) Roll20's voice/video has issues generally.

    Paizo (i.e. Pathfinder) has done a bunch of campaign length story path things with pre-made adventures and are generally regarded well. The Wizards (5e) ones have been less highly thought of but mostly functional. Definitely ask about the Wizards ones in here to get a heads up about potential issues with encounters. Not sure about the response you'd get on Pathfinders stuff simply because it isn't as followed here.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    ElvenshaeFuselageWingedWeasel
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    Roll20 is a solid option, and you can go with non-local people very painlessly. There very likely exist character sheets in Roll20 that will automate away a lot of the maths.

    What parts of DMing are you most concerned with? Adam Koebel has an excellent series on his youtube channel where he answers questions in some detail called Office Hours, and if you're looking for encounter balance eyeballing I'm sure this thread or the RP thread would be happy to offer a second opinion.

    13th Age is probably going to be easier to create encounters for, but it has a lot of fiddly bits that are important, and hard to track if you're not used to it.

    Getting people to the table is one of the hardest parts of playing TTRPGs, and I would stress that it is not the sole domain of the GM. Everyone is responsible for it.

    JustTeeFuselageWingedWeaselRingoOptimusZed
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    I'll echo everything DevoutlyApathetic said, and add my own two cents.

    I find Pathfinder to be much more complicated than 5e. They're extremely similar in that they're both d20 games with the same pedigree, but 5e dials down the complexity a bit for reasons DA already explained. If you really love to dive into a game with a lot of crunch, maybe that's exactly the sort of thing you want to hear about Pathfinder. Personally I gravitate toward games with fewer rules, so while Pathfinder is definitely an improvement over 3rd edition D&D, I don't care for it personally.

    I've never played 13th age but I hear the same things about 13th age now as I heard about Pathfinder when it first came out, so if I had to guess I'd guess it's "a better version of D&D than the current version"

    WingedWeasel
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    So on sunday my party finally gained a direction! I'm not talking about a quest or the plot of the campaign so much as I am the sort of unifying side goals that allow the party to really thrive.

    To that end, we united around our party's monk who has a merchant background and made it our goal to make scads of cash (we have two lizardfolk in our party so that means virtually every fight in the faewild with random mooks means that we wind up with a shitload of vendable items) and ultimately upgrade our barded carriage as much as possible. Current goals for this include:
    • Converting the carriage into a golem that can walk (roll?) under it's own power and keep people from jacking our stuff while we're doing our adventure thing.
    • Giving it planeswalking powers.
    • Installing a mordekains mansion on the interior.
    • Getting a magic mouth spell that calls out "Quality goods are the right of all sentient life!" in the voice of optimus prime.

    All of which is possible since we buddied up to a dwarf artificer and are in the process of unloading our dead monster bits on so he can make us cool stuff!

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    ElvenshaeFuselagenever dieTerrendosMoridin889
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    I've started DMing 5th ed for the first time recently (though played a lot of previous editions going back to the late 80s)

    There are not many modules published so far and I've found most of them to be pretty lackluster and requiring a huge amount of effort from the DM to flesh them out. With one big exception! The Lost Mine of Phalander that comes with the 5th ed starter box (also easy to find online) is a pretty darn good 1st level adventure. Especially for people new to D&D. It's not on par with Keep on the Shadowfell but is still pretty good.

    There are also a few hardback books that are collections of adventures. They are all either direct ports or reskins of some of the old "classic" dungeon crawl adventure modules. EG: The Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants etc... Be very wary of any of them that claim they are for 1st level characters. The "Princes of the Apocalypse" book (thin reskin of Temple of Elemental Evil) says it does but really doesn't have any good content until level 3. Just comes with an appendix of weak as hell side quests that could maybe keep some players busy until they are high enough level for the main dungeon. And it really is totally focused on dungeon crawling after that point.

    The Hoard of the Dragon Queen book is a bit better than PoA but it's setup is a little cliche. I think it needs some effort from the DM to make the introduction and basic plot premise more workable. And both of these adventures are set in Forgotten Realms which I really do not like running.

    The "Tales From the Yawning Portal" book has some direct ports of adventures from older editions. One of those, The Sunless Citadel, was the introductory adventure written for 3rd ed D&D and is pretty good.

    Picking up the Starter Box might be a good idea. It has that Lost Mine of Phalander adventure and a bunch of pre-generated characters ready to go. What it doesn't come with is rules for making your own characters (that's in the Player's Handbook).

    WingedWeasel
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    I've started DMing 5th ed for the first time recently (though played a lot of previous editions going back to the late 80s)

    There are not many modules published so far and I've found most of them to be pretty lackluster and requiring a huge amount of effort from the DM to flesh them out. With one big exception! The Lost Mine of Phalander that comes with the 5th ed starter box (also easy to find online) is a pretty darn good 1st level adventure. Especially for people new to D&D. It's not on par with Keep on the Shadowfell but is still pretty good.

    There are also a few hardback books that are collections of adventures. They are all either direct ports or reskins of some of the old "classic" dungeon crawl adventure modules. EG: The Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants etc... Be very wary of any of them that claim they are for 1st level characters. The "Princes of the Apocalypse" book (thin reskin of Temple of Elemental Evil) says it does but really doesn't have any good content until level 3. Just comes with an appendix of weak as hell side quests that could maybe keep some players busy until they are high enough level for the main dungeon. And it really is totally focused on dungeon crawling after that point.

    The Hoard of the Dragon Queen book is a bit better than PoA but it's setup is a little cliche. I think it needs some effort from the DM to make the introduction and basic plot premise more workable. And both of these adventures are set in Forgotten Realms which I really do not like running.

    The "Tales From the Yawning Portal" book has some direct ports of adventures from older editions. One of those, The Sunless Citadel, was the introductory adventure written for 3rd ed D&D and is pretty good.

    Picking up the Starter Box might be a good idea. It has that Lost Mine of Phalander adventure and a bunch of pre-generated characters ready to go. What it doesn't come with is rules for making your own characters (that's in the Player's Handbook).

    I actually found LMoP to be extremely work heavy as a DM. The first adventure, 3 of the 4 times I've run it, needed me to fudge a crit by a goblin to prevent perma-death for a new player. First scene is a straight up goblin ambush. Couple that with pretty forgettable villains, not a lot of connection between areas, and no particular memorable in the box encounters...

    I don't know. I had to do a lot of work to make that more interesting for my group of newbies.

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    JustTee wrote: »
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    I've started DMing 5th ed for the first time recently (though played a lot of previous editions going back to the late 80s)

    There are not many modules published so far and I've found most of them to be pretty lackluster and requiring a huge amount of effort from the DM to flesh them out. With one big exception! The Lost Mine of Phalander that comes with the 5th ed starter box (also easy to find online) is a pretty darn good 1st level adventure. Especially for people new to D&D. It's not on par with Keep on the Shadowfell but is still pretty good.

    There are also a few hardback books that are collections of adventures. They are all either direct ports or reskins of some of the old "classic" dungeon crawl adventure modules. EG: The Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants etc... Be very wary of any of them that claim they are for 1st level characters. The "Princes of the Apocalypse" book (thin reskin of Temple of Elemental Evil) says it does but really doesn't have any good content until level 3. Just comes with an appendix of weak as hell side quests that could maybe keep some players busy until they are high enough level for the main dungeon. And it really is totally focused on dungeon crawling after that point.

    The Hoard of the Dragon Queen book is a bit better than PoA but it's setup is a little cliche. I think it needs some effort from the DM to make the introduction and basic plot premise more workable. And both of these adventures are set in Forgotten Realms which I really do not like running.

    The "Tales From the Yawning Portal" book has some direct ports of adventures from older editions. One of those, The Sunless Citadel, was the introductory adventure written for 3rd ed D&D and is pretty good.

    Picking up the Starter Box might be a good idea. It has that Lost Mine of Phalander adventure and a bunch of pre-generated characters ready to go. What it doesn't come with is rules for making your own characters (that's in the Player's Handbook).

    I actually found LMoP to be extremely work heavy as a DM. The first adventure, 3 of the 4 times I've run it, needed me to fudge a crit by a goblin to prevent perma-death for a new player. First scene is a straight up goblin ambush. Couple that with pretty forgettable villains, not a lot of connection between areas, and no particular memorable in the box encounters...

    I don't know. I had to do a lot of work to make that more interesting for my group of newbies.

    I agree, but I also think it is still better than any other 5e published adventure I have read yet. I mean the central fact of 5e D&D is "requires a lot of work from the DM".

    Though in the game I ran I had to significantly crank up the difficulty by the end of that first goblin cave as the party was just obliterating them (gave the bugbear more HP and 2 attacks, had the goblins from the left area and the right rush the party from both sides at once and added a few extra goblins)

    RiemannLives on
    JustTee
  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    JustTee wrote: »
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    I've started DMing 5th ed for the first time recently (though played a lot of previous editions going back to the late 80s)

    There are not many modules published so far and I've found most of them to be pretty lackluster and requiring a huge amount of effort from the DM to flesh them out. With one big exception! The Lost Mine of Phalander that comes with the 5th ed starter box (also easy to find online) is a pretty darn good 1st level adventure. Especially for people new to D&D. It's not on par with Keep on the Shadowfell but is still pretty good.

    There are also a few hardback books that are collections of adventures. They are all either direct ports or reskins of some of the old "classic" dungeon crawl adventure modules. EG: The Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants etc... Be very wary of any of them that claim they are for 1st level characters. The "Princes of the Apocalypse" book (thin reskin of Temple of Elemental Evil) says it does but really doesn't have any good content until level 3. Just comes with an appendix of weak as hell side quests that could maybe keep some players busy until they are high enough level for the main dungeon. And it really is totally focused on dungeon crawling after that point.

    The Hoard of the Dragon Queen book is a bit better than PoA but it's setup is a little cliche. I think it needs some effort from the DM to make the introduction and basic plot premise more workable. And both of these adventures are set in Forgotten Realms which I really do not like running.

    The "Tales From the Yawning Portal" book has some direct ports of adventures from older editions. One of those, The Sunless Citadel, was the introductory adventure written for 3rd ed D&D and is pretty good.

    Picking up the Starter Box might be a good idea. It has that Lost Mine of Phalander adventure and a bunch of pre-generated characters ready to go. What it doesn't come with is rules for making your own characters (that's in the Player's Handbook).

    I actually found LMoP to be extremely work heavy as a DM. The first adventure, 3 of the 4 times I've run it, needed me to fudge a crit by a goblin to prevent perma-death for a new player. First scene is a straight up goblin ambush. Couple that with pretty forgettable villains, not a lot of connection between areas, and no particular memorable in the box encounters...

    I don't know. I had to do a lot of work to make that more interesting for my group of newbies.

    I agree, but I also thing it is still better than any other 5e published adventure I have read yet. I mean the central fact of 5e D&D is "requires a lot of work from the DM".

    Though in the game I ran I had to significantly crank up the difficulty by the end of that first goblin cave as the party was just obliterating them (gave the bugbear more HP and 2 attacks, had the goblins from the left area and the right rush the party from both sides at once and added a few extra goblins)

    How big was your party? In 5E party size is a huge factor in how easy encounters are. Even just 1 PC can be the difference between a cakewalk and a TPK.

    SmrtnikJustTee
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    JustTee wrote: »
    Thanks for the input. I'll have to discuss it with my wife to see what she would be more comfortable with. My past rpg experience is kinda weird and as mentioned is heavily into rifts. I am probably by default going to DM because the others just kinda don't want to do it.

    Since I've had some (minimal) experience in that role I know what my own limitations are and was intending to actually just pick up one of the pre-made adventures and run that if it was an option. At least to start, the goal being minimal potential for failure, be that a wipe, hunting through books for rules, or other assorted things. We would be doing this through something online like Google hangouts (roll20?) So that may factor in.

    Wife and I agreed we would probably do premade characters and let people choose what they want from there as we are not confident the group will actually make it. She's super excited to play but we don't really have a group of people that we are sure are going to be into it.

    Once we have a more solidified idea I'll probably post some question in the general rpg thread, or here I guess if they are d&d specific.

    I've started DMing 5th ed for the first time recently (though played a lot of previous editions going back to the late 80s)

    There are not many modules published so far and I've found most of them to be pretty lackluster and requiring a huge amount of effort from the DM to flesh them out. With one big exception! The Lost Mine of Phalander that comes with the 5th ed starter box (also easy to find online) is a pretty darn good 1st level adventure. Especially for people new to D&D. It's not on par with Keep on the Shadowfell but is still pretty good.

    There are also a few hardback books that are collections of adventures. They are all either direct ports or reskins of some of the old "classic" dungeon crawl adventure modules. EG: The Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants etc... Be very wary of any of them that claim they are for 1st level characters. The "Princes of the Apocalypse" book (thin reskin of Temple of Elemental Evil) says it does but really doesn't have any good content until level 3. Just comes with an appendix of weak as hell side quests that could maybe keep some players busy until they are high enough level for the main dungeon. And it really is totally focused on dungeon crawling after that point.

    The Hoard of the Dragon Queen book is a bit better than PoA but it's setup is a little cliche. I think it needs some effort from the DM to make the introduction and basic plot premise more workable. And both of these adventures are set in Forgotten Realms which I really do not like running.

    The "Tales From the Yawning Portal" book has some direct ports of adventures from older editions. One of those, The Sunless Citadel, was the introductory adventure written for 3rd ed D&D and is pretty good.

    Picking up the Starter Box might be a good idea. It has that Lost Mine of Phalander adventure and a bunch of pre-generated characters ready to go. What it doesn't come with is rules for making your own characters (that's in the Player's Handbook).

    I actually found LMoP to be extremely work heavy as a DM. The first adventure, 3 of the 4 times I've run it, needed me to fudge a crit by a goblin to prevent perma-death for a new player. First scene is a straight up goblin ambush. Couple that with pretty forgettable villains, not a lot of connection between areas, and no particular memorable in the box encounters...

    I don't know. I had to do a lot of work to make that more interesting for my group of newbies.

    I agree, but I also thing it is still better than any other 5e published adventure I have read yet. I mean the central fact of 5e D&D is "requires a lot of work from the DM".

    Though in the game I ran I had to significantly crank up the difficulty by the end of that first goblin cave as the party was just obliterating them (gave the bugbear more HP and 2 attacks, had the goblins from the left area and the right rush the party from both sides at once and added a few extra goblins)

    How big was your party? In 5E party size is a huge factor in how easy encounters are. Even just 1 PC can be the difference between a cakewalk and a TPK.

    it was a cleric, rogue, warlock and druid.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I don't think it's fair to blame an entire module because you needed to fudge a crit. Blame the dice, not the module.

    And I disagree about a lack of connection between areas. They're all connected via the hub of Phandalin and the respective quest givers in the town.

    I think it's a great intro module.

    RiemannLives
  • FuselageFuselage Bantha Three ValhallaRegistered User regular
    Hankerin Ferinale of Drunkens & Dragon's favors just running other editions with 5e without really converting or changing much of anything, so maybe grab the best Pathfinder modules that give you the adventure you want and play it with 5e characters. That'll really mix up your play options too. Obviously if there's a CR10 monster with 30 AC you could probably adjust that down.

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Is it feasible to just get say a 4e or older adventure and then just use the 5e stat blocks for everything?

    After speaking with Wife she believes 5e sounds better for us based on the descriptions provided. What are we looking at from a combat perspective for these 2 systems? Hour long combat sessions for things or how will that shake out?

    As I mentioned my experience is with rifts so it was not uncommon for even level 1 characters to have like 15 actions a round. I know it isn't going to be that bad, but it's something that crossed my mind.

    Really I should read through some of the pbp here to get a better sense.

    WingedWeasel on
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    RIFTS really isn't anything like other games, I wouldn't factor it in too much.

    WingedWeaselRiemannLivesOptimusZedMrVyngaardMegaMek
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Is it feasible to just get say a 4e or older adventure and then just use the 5e stat blocks for everything?

    After speaking with Wife she believes 5e sounds better for us based on the descriptions provided. What are we looking at from a combat perspective for these 2 systems? Hour long combat sessions for things or how will that shake out?

    As I mentioned my experience is with rifts so it was uncommon for even level 1 characters to have like 15 actions a round. I know it isn't going to be that bad, but it's something that crossed my mind.

    Really I should read through some of the pbp here to get a better sense.

    Coming from RIFTS makes you a rather odd case as that system is one of the dread Old Ones of the tabletop world: arbitrary, inhuman, very complicated and generally fucking crazy.

    How long you spend in combat and such is much more about the people at your table than the system. Beyond stuff like analyses paralysis and how much a given individual pays attention or whatever there is the fact that how a tabletop game plays out owes more to the GM and players than to the system.

    That said, at 1st level generally characters have fewer options to choose from and fewer choices to make in 5th edition which makes things go faster. Casters a little less so than in 4th and non-casters a lot less so. Though you need to carefully read every class description your players are using in 5th because there are some vaguely written rules and arbitrary quirks in how the different classes work. Don't just look at a summary or numbers you really have to carefully read and understand at least all the 1st level stuff available to your players if they are new.

    At higher levels 5th has gone back to the exponential caster / linear everyone else style of class development from older editions of D&D.

    Also the Players Handbook is a horrible pain in the ass in how the spells are organized. Any of your players will spells should just write down on their own sheet (or cards or whatever) the full descriptions for all their spells. In the books they jump dump them all in a long alphabetical list with nor sorting by class or level. At the very least players should write down the page # next to every spell on their sheet or you'll spend the majority of the evening trying to find spell descriptions (which are often vague and require DM interpretation).

    In my opinion 4th ed. did a far better job at pretty much every single mechanical part of the game. Also the books have better art, were much less expensive, the monster manual has far more content (including better descriptions for non-combat use of the monsters) and the DMs guide has much better advice about running a game. What the 5th ed books do have though is a random dice roll chart for everything like in AD&D though.

    BUT I am playing 5th now because some of the players didn't like how many choices and options 4th had as it was hard to keep track of. Some people just want to know that on their turn they can roll a basic attack and that's about it.

    RiemannLives on
    MegaMek
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Wife and I spoke a over the weekend about d&d plans. Where is the general consensus in the $20 "starter set"? The adventure seems like it'd be feasible based on people's responses here.

    I'm kind of in limbo in some respects with this. I don't really know how the group will shape up or what they will ultimately want. Step 1 at this point is finding out if people even really want to play an RPG or they just like the idea of an RPG.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Then the $20 starter is perfect. It's super basic, and only $20, and consensus seems to be the that the built in campaign is quite good.

    SmrtnikSteelhawkiguanacusWingedWeaselElvenshaeMegaMekRiemannLiveswebguy20
  • iguanacusiguanacus Desert PlanetRegistered User regular
    You're DMing right? Get all the players together at least an hour before game 1 for an in character meet and greet. Hand out the premade characters and let them tweak and flesh out backstory. During play make sure to give out inspiration dice to encourage keeping in character. Any casters should probably write out their spells on index cards or something so they aren't always going back to the books (or buy/print a set of spell book cards) and slowing things down.

    Also a first time time saver is: If a question about a ruling comes up just make note of the trouble, but make an immediate ruling that seems fair right then. You're better off keeping the game running then constantly stopping the flow. Next session you can address whatever was the concern was before play starts.

    I dunno, I take you seriously on some topics and dick rider is your profession
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I don't think it's fair to blame an entire module because you needed to fudge a crit. Blame the dice, not the module.

    And I disagree about a lack of connection between areas. They're all connected via the hub of Phandalin and the respective quest givers in the town.

    I think it's a great intro module.

    I mean, if you want more detail of why I didn't like LMoP, I can give it.

    Spoiler for opinions:
    Scene one, moment one, is "4 goblins ambush the party". If you run it at level 1 like you're supposed to, and play the goblins as literally anything other than "run up and attack", you are likely to kill one or all of the party with even mildly good rolls. You're also supposed to have the goblins having the high ground, with bows, firing down on surprised party members. So...unless you start off the module with some fudging, you are very likely to kill somebody. The book in no way mentions or prepares you for the fact that these 4 goblins are potentially *extremely* deadly for a level 1 party. If you run it by the book and nobody notices them hiding, that's a potential surprise round, at range, and a second round of attacks while the party approaches. Absolutely a TPK possibility, even without crits.

    The module has a throw away line about how/why the party is going on this adventure together, when really, as an intro, this is probably *the* most important thing you have to establish with new players. With experienced players, I think they are more able to imply/create on the fly a back story with other PCs, but I really think that some new players could use a bit of hand holding. The back grounds on the pre-gen characters work ok at hinting about player relations to the module, but my players paid attention to their given backstories for a hot second before they all wanted to create their own (which I of course encouraged and allowed, but then made the hooks a bit more difficult to work in).

    As for the rest of the adventure - mostly I found the biggest issue with "Why should my players care about this". By the book, Glasstaff never really makes an appearance, and unless the party is incredibly lucky, they won't really meet him ever. He's supposed to just run away. The Black Spider never really makes an appearance either, until the very end of the module. Without some prompting and hinting, there's no real reason for the party to ever head up to Thundertree, which means unless you force the issue, the big Dragon encounter never happens. Sildar might force the issue with glass staff, but realistically, once the red brands are handled, there's no more impetus or reason (in the book) for the Black Spider to ever really be mentioned again. My players interrogated one of the ruffians initially, and then basically completely forgot about the Black Spider while they went to handle Thundertree (I changed the village to have been *recently* over taken by a dragon, and survivors had relatives in Phandalin they escaped to).

    I think it just has the same set of problems that many of the D&D modules I've read have, which is that the point of the module should be to motivate players to engage with the content. Having the best content in the world means nothing if there are no effective hooks, or charismatic villains, or really any reason other than "you've been hired". Many of the first sessions I had to kind of re-direct players back onto the path of the module. I started them saying "this is an intro adventure that is somewhat on rails, and after we do that, we can decide if we want to play a more sandbox style game". Mostly because I was also a new GM at the time, and was worried about improv'ing and generating my own content.

    Phandalin was ok, but the NPCs have no relationships with each other as written, and most have like 1 line about how they feel about the Redbrand ruffians, which was fine. But the red brands were a push over at level 2. I found it funny how the initial goblin cave almost murdered the level 1 party, but then level 2 they came in and wiped the floor with the red brands. Which, again, was fine, in terms of combat. But it didn't really match the tone of the content.

    I think there was some good content in LMoP, and I definitely liked using the pre-made maps in roll20. I just did a lot of fudging and creating to the point that LMoP was basically just a list of names for me to add stuff on. I just wish modules that cost $20 had a bit more meat to them.

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    How does the starter work with respect to to spellcasters then? It sounds as though all the detail is contained in the handbook which isn't included (I think?).

    I was never a fan personally of the idea of the exponential power growth of a caster over other stuff, but honestly I kinda just want to play and see what people like from there. With this particular group I'm expecting ting a lot of "didn't know that I wanted that!" sort of responses.
    iguanacus wrote: »
    You're DMing right? Get all the players together at least an hour before game 1 for an in character meet and greet. Hand out the premade characters and let them tweak and flesh out backstory. During play make sure to give out inspiration dice to encourage keeping in character. Any casters should probably write out their spells on index cards or something so they aren't always going back to the books (or buy/print a set of spell book cards) and slowing things down.

    Also a first time time saver is: If a question about a ruling comes up just make note of the trouble, but make an immediate ruling that seems fair right then. You're better off keeping the game running then constantly stopping the flow. Next session you can address whatever was the concern was before play starts.

    This was exactly my plan and how I did it for rifts. I've seen what the stagnation if searching books can do.

    Oats
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    JustTee wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I don't think it's fair to blame an entire module because you needed to fudge a crit. Blame the dice, not the module.

    And I disagree about a lack of connection between areas. They're all connected via the hub of Phandalin and the respective quest givers in the town.

    I think it's a great intro module.

    I mean, if you want more detail of why I didn't like LMoP, I can give it.

    Spoiler for opinions:

    Scene one, moment one, is "4 goblins ambush the party". If you run it at level 1 like you're supposed to, and play the goblins as literally anything other than "run up and attack", you are likely to kill one or all of the party with even mildly good rolls. You're also supposed to have the goblins having the high ground, with bows, firing down on surprised party members. So...unless you start off the module with some fudging, you are very likely to kill somebody. The book in no way mentions or prepares you for the fact that these 4 goblins are potentially *extremely* deadly for a level 1 party. If you run it by the book and nobody notices them hiding, that's a potential surprise round, at range, and a second round of attacks while the party approaches. Absolutely a TPK possibility, even without crits.

    Yes, that fight has the potential to be deadly, I can't argue that. I don't remember the wording of the encounter. The point of the encounter though is to start the game off with a bang! And an ambush on the road sets the tone. A veteran GM may indeed run the encounter in such as a way as to wipe a party of first timers. But that is not the intention of the module. It is much more likely that the players will mop the floor with the Goblins than the other way around.
    The module has a throw away line about how/why the party is going on this adventure together, when really, as an intro, this is probably *the* most important thing you have to establish with new players. With experienced players, I think they are more able to imply/create on the fly a back story with other PCs, but I really think that some new players could use a bit of hand holding. The back grounds on the
    pre-gen characters work ok at hinting about player relations to the module, but my players paid attention to their given backstories for a hot second before they all wanted to create their own (which I of course encouraged and allowed, but then made the hooks a bit more difficult to work in).

    This is not a fault of the module, however. They did include the hooks and connections. If players wanted to make their own (which I to endorse!) and did not include any ties to the adventure... well, again, that's not the fault of the module.
    As for the rest of the adventure - mostly I found the biggest issue with "Why should my players care about this". By the book, Glasstaff never really makes an appearance, and unless the party is incredibly lucky, they won't really meet him ever. He's supposed to just run away. The Black Spider never really makes an appearance either, until the very end of the module. Without some prompting and hinting, there's no real reason for the party to ever head up to Thundertree, which means unless you force the issue, the big Dragon encounter never happens. Sildar might force the issue with glass staff, but realistically, once the red brands are handled, there's no more impetus or reason (in the book) for the Black Spider to ever really be mentioned again. My players interrogated one of the ruffians initially, and then basically completely forgot about the Black Spider while they went to handle Thundertree (I changed the village to have been *recently* over taken by a dragon, and survivors had relatives in Phandalin they escaped to).

    I think it just has the same set of problems that many of the D&D modules I've read have, which is that the point of the module should be to motivate players to engage with the content. Having the best content in the world means nothing if there are no effective hooks, or charismatic villains, or really any reason other than "you've been hired". Many of the first sessions I had to kind of re-direct players back onto the path of the module. I started them saying "this is an intro adventure that is somewhat on rails, and after we do that, we can decide if we want to play a more sandbox style game". Mostly because I was also a new GM at the time, and was worried about improv'ing and generating my own content.

    In my opinion, once you get to Phandalin the first time the game IS very close to a sandbox. All the side quests are there for the taking as the players choose. There's all these NPC's in the town, with their own agendas, with giant exclamation marks over their heads. Take the quest or don't take the quest. Grind or push on with the story. What you did to throw in some extra enticement for Thundertree was a brilliant way of putting a cherry on top of the pretty-please, BTW.
    Phandalin was ok, but the NPCs have no relationships with each other as written, and most have like 1 line about how they feel about the Redbrand ruffians, which was fine. But the red brands were a push over at level 2. I found it funny how the initial goblin cave almost murdered the level 1 party, but then level 2 they came in and wiped the floor with the red brands. Which, again, was fine, in terms of combat. But it didn't really match the tone of the content.

    I wasn't at your table, so of course I don't know. But that sounds like the way the dice fell as opposed to a problem with the module. Its pre-published adventure, and no adventure survives contact with the players. Especially an adventure not written for your players, but written instead for all players.[/spoiler]

    I liked it.

    Steelhawk on
    JustTee
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I liked it.

    At the end of the day, that's really all that matters. And ultimately, one of my groups stuck through LMoP, and we're still playing weekly. My main concerns were really just how much work I had to do as a DM to make the content come alive and feel interesting / real. There's definitely a good set of bones in the module, but when I got it as a zero-time DM, I was really hoping for more meat, in particular, on some of those obvious exclamation point NPCs.

    As a comparison, other modules that I've purchased/gotten include things like "This is how the NPC is set up currently, but players offering X changes their mind / insults them / etc". Or, it explains which NPCs like other NPCs in the town, or who has what kind of agenda. Which like, yeah, obviously as an experienced DM you can start to do that on your own. But for something billed as an Intro to D&D, I feel like LMoP does a pretty swell job of introducing players to a sweet area. I just don't feel like it held my hand as a DM as much as I might have hoped for initially.

    Now, I 100% recommend LMoP for experienced DMs to run for inexperienced player groups. I just caveat it that it's mostly a framework to do a fun adventure using a fledgling backwater town, and that there's some work to do to flesh out what's going on.

    For inexperienced DMs, I recommend a few one shots that I've found that do a great job of giving interesting set ups, with enough info for the DM to feel empowered to tackle crazy player stunts and ideas, without having to feel the pressure of adapting/creating consequences for a long campaign.

    Nitty gritty nit picks about combat:
    I've played the module as a player (up to level 3), run it as a DM completely once, and run it incompletely 3 times. The initial combat, as written, is 100% meant to be a deadly ambush at the start. At the very least, that's ~4 arrows, all of which have pretty good odds to hit level 1 PCs (+4 to hit means any spell casters are hit ~65% of the time, any leather armor wearers hit ~55% of the time, and tanks are hit ~45-50% of the time). If you also consider that the goblins are hidden, attacking surprised targets, that should grant them advantage, but inexperienced DMs might not know that, or might forget. This is a potentially brutal combat.

    My problem is not the potential deadliness. Although, kind of it is, because the rest of the module is not written to be like a brutal slog fest of fighting. My main issue is that there's no *warning* given to a new DM that "Hey, 4 goblins hidden from a level 1 party is *potentially* a very difficult fight. So, if that's not what you're looking for, instead run a combat where the party finds 2 goblin scouts".

    Which is basically my point. The goblin ambush leads directly into a cave where the party could potentially have a trap flood them (doing Damage? Equipment loss? Not specified), a total of ~13 goblins (included a named goblin leader with extra HP), a hobgoblin, and a wolf. Again, with no real warning about how this is potentially an extremely deadly place that realistically, the party should *not* deal with explicitly at level 1. Except every party I've personally run LMoP for, and the ones run by DM friends, every player group encounters the ambush, follows the ambush trail, and then tries to take out the goblin cave.

    By comparison, there are a total of 4 ruffians in town, 10 ruffians in the mansion (the ruffians are melee only, easier to hit than goblins, with more HP, and aren't proficient in stealth), a few bugbears (in an easily skippable room), a couple skeletons, and Glasstaff (who runs unless the party lucks into finding a secret back door into his lab). So it's very much an easier set up, especially given the gulf of power / toughness difference between a level 1 party and a level 2 party.

    Mostly I'm just annoyed that the module doesn't *ever* give a heads up about how difficult the combat is meant to be played as, with the exception of the Venomfang fight (it warns you that there's likely very little chance of actually beating VF, and to have him retreat at half health to avoid splatting your party). As an experienced (now) DM, that's not that big a deal. As a first timer, reading the module cold, this was problematic for me.

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
    SteelhawkElvenshae
  • Ken OKen O Registered User regular
    I have a monthly game made up of people I've been gaming with since middle school and high school (25+ years at this point). Outside of Earthdawn when naming something gave it power, we've never named any of our adventuring parties. Last Saturday it actually came up in game. We were all kind of stunned, it wasn't anything we had discussed. Our drunken cleric offered up some horrible name like "Kickass adventures" or something and the NPC just labeled us "the heroes of Saltmarsh" as the first few adventures had been centered around there.

    So I need to be prepared with a few names for the next session that I can throw out to everyone. This campaign already has a reoccurring joke and I think a good name can come out of it. One of the first treasure chests we opened had a small mermaid statue in it. We've refused to sell it, it has become the party mascot. When the drinkers hit the tavern the mermaid statue is placed on the middle of the table. I think using "siren" probably sounds better than "mermaid". Something like Siren's Guard but I don't really care for that one. Any suggestions?

    http://www.fingmonkey.com/
    Comics, Games, Booze
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    JustTee wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I liked it.

    At the end of the day, that's really all that matters. And ultimately, one of my groups stuck through LMoP, and we're still playing weekly. My main concerns were really just how much work I had to do as a DM to make the content come alive and feel interesting / real. There's definitely a good set of bones in the module, but when I got it as a zero-time DM, I was really hoping for more meat, in particular, on some of those obvious exclamation point NPCs.

    As a comparison, other modules that I've purchased/gotten include things like "This is how the NPC is set up currently, but players offering X changes their mind / insults them / etc". Or, it explains which NPCs like other NPCs in the town, or who has what kind of agenda. Which like, yeah, obviously as an experienced DM you can start to do that on your own. But for something billed as an Intro to D&D, I feel like LMoP does a pretty swell job of introducing players to a sweet area. I just don't feel like it held my hand as a DM as much as I might have hoped for initially.

    Now, I 100% recommend LMoP for experienced DMs to run for inexperienced player groups. I just caveat it that it's mostly a framework to do a fun adventure using a fledgling backwater town, and that there's some work to do to flesh out what's going on.

    For inexperienced DMs, I recommend a few one shots that I've found that do a great job of giving interesting set ups, with enough info for the DM to feel empowered to tackle crazy player stunts and ideas, without having to feel the pressure of adapting/creating consequences for a long campaign.

    Nitty gritty nit picks about combat:
    I've played the module as a player (up to level 3), run it as a DM completely once, and run it incompletely 3 times. The initial combat, as written, is 100% meant to be a deadly ambush at the start. At the very least, that's ~4 arrows, all of which have pretty good odds to hit level 1 PCs (+4 to hit means any spell casters are hit ~65% of the time, any leather armor wearers hit ~55% of the time, and tanks are hit ~45-50% of the time). If you also consider that the goblins are hidden, attacking surprised targets, that should grant them advantage, but inexperienced DMs might not know that, or might forget. This is a potentially brutal combat.

    My problem is not the potential deadliness. Although, kind of it is, because the rest of the module is not written to be like a brutal slog fest of fighting. My main issue is that there's no *warning* given to a new DM that "Hey, 4 goblins hidden from a level 1 party is *potentially* a very difficult fight. So, if that's not what you're looking for, instead run a combat where the party finds 2 goblin scouts".

    Which is basically my point. The goblin ambush leads directly into a cave where the party could potentially have a trap flood them (doing Damage? Equipment loss? Not specified), a total of ~13 goblins (included a named goblin leader with extra HP), a hobgoblin, and a wolf. Again, with no real warning about how this is potentially an extremely deadly place that realistically, the party should *not* deal with explicitly at level 1. Except every party I've personally run LMoP for, and the ones run by DM friends, every player group encounters the ambush, follows the ambush trail, and then tries to take out the goblin cave.

    By comparison, there are a total of 4 ruffians in town, 10 ruffians in the mansion (the ruffians are melee only, easier to hit than goblins, with more HP, and aren't proficient in stealth), a few bugbears (in an easily skippable room), a couple skeletons, and Glasstaff (who runs unless the party lucks into finding a secret back door into his lab). So it's very much an easier set up, especially given the gulf of power / toughness difference between a level 1 party and a level 2 party.

    Mostly I'm just annoyed that the module doesn't *ever* give a heads up about how difficult the combat is meant to be played as, with the exception of the Venomfang fight (it warns you that there's likely very little chance of actually beating VF, and to have him retreat at half health to avoid splatting your party). As an experienced (now) DM, that's not that big a deal. As a first timer, reading the module cold, this was problematic for me.

    Your experience with the module was much different than mine. I ran it with my core group of friends for the first part, and then for one of side quests another one of us took over the DM seat and I got to play. This was our first introduction to 5e., after playing the shit out of 3.5. We skipped 4e (well, they did. I really liked it, but only played PbP here). We didn't actually finish the module, come to think of it, so the late game stuff I can't really comment on how it worked out at the table.

    What I will reiterate is that the structure of the module and what was presented, to me, felt like a very good introduction to 5th edition and D&D in general.


  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    How does the starter work with respect to to spellcasters then? It sounds as though all the detail is contained in the handbook which isn't included (I think?).

    I was never a fan personally of the idea of the exponential power growth of a caster over other stuff, but honestly I kinda just want to play and see what people like from there. With this particular group I'm expecting ting a lot of "didn't know that I wanted that!" sort of responses.
    iguanacus wrote: »
    You're DMing right? Get all the players together at least an hour before game 1 for an in character meet and greet. Hand out the premade characters and let them tweak and flesh out backstory. During play make sure to give out inspiration dice to encourage keeping in character. Any casters should probably write out their spells on index cards or something so they aren't always going back to the books (or buy/print a set of spell book cards) and slowing things down.

    Also a first time time saver is: If a question about a ruling comes up just make note of the trouble, but make an immediate ruling that seems fair right then. You're better off keeping the game running then constantly stopping the flow. Next session you can address whatever was the concern was before play starts.

    This was exactly my plan and how I did it for rifts. I've seen what the stagnation if searching books can do.

    I have the starter set myself and I want to think that it does include some low level spells inside for Wizards to pick through.

    Also, I'm late to the party but wanted to chime in all the same.

    A little while back I discovered Critical Role which I shared with my then 13year old, now 14 year old daughter. She fell in love with the story telling and narrative and they were using 5th edition. My daughter was keen and my wife and I had played 3rd, Pathfinder, and a sampling of 4e (not from not liking it but more just time/people to play with constraints).

    We delved into 5e, which I already owned the books for; just because I don't get to play doesn't mean I don't like to collect.

    She invited another of her friends over and I've been DMing for them for several sessions now (Smaller party with just my wife, my daughter, and her friend). The game has been amazing and the system is just built on solid legs. They aren't overly fancy legs but they don't seem to need to be. In combat and out of combat things are easy to manage, number rolling feels stream lined (thank you Advantage/Disadvantage along with base Prof bonus), and most of the classes seem fairly well off and balanced for new players especially.

    In 5e, it seems like it would be INCREDIBLY hard to create a character that was painfully worse than the others around you (which could come up easily in 3rd). I'd advise just using core classes to start with and not bothering to introduce multi classing yet as it helps give that grounding.

    Also of note, what I bolded, it's not AS bad in this edition as in 3rd. A lot of the more broken spells back in the day have concentration checks so it keeps some things from getting out of hand (I know you said you don't really have D&D experience but its still something I like to note). A lot of "Save or Die" spells have also been tweaked to be less "one bad roll and now you're rerolling" so that's also nice.

    All that aside, I hope you and your friends have a wonderful time whatever you play. Nothing quite compares to personal/social games like these.

    WingedWeaselElvenshaeSmrtnikJustTeeMrGrimoire
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Ken O wrote: »
    I have a monthly game made up of people I've been gaming with since middle school and high school (25+ years at this point). Outside of Earthdawn when naming something gave it power, we've never named any of our adventuring parties. Last Saturday it actually came up in game. We were all kind of stunned, it wasn't anything we had discussed. Our drunken cleric offered up some horrible name like "Kickass adventures" or something and the NPC just labeled us "the heroes of Saltmarsh" as the first few adventures had been centered around there.

    So I need to be prepared with a few names for the next session that I can throw out to everyone. This campaign already has a reoccurring joke and I think a good name can come out of it. One of the first treasure chests we opened had a small mermaid statue in it. We've refused to sell it, it has become the party mascot. When the drinkers hit the tavern the mermaid statue is placed on the middle of the table. I think using "siren" probably sounds better than "mermaid". Something like Siren's Guard but I don't really care for that one. Any suggestions?

    Siren's risen.

    Ken OElvenshae
This discussion has been closed.