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Gunmen attack Mall in Munich, Germany.

ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
shooting in Munich mall
]
German police are engaged in a huge anti-terror manhunt in the city of Munich after nine people died in a shooting at a shopping centre.

Police are investigating whether one of the bodies is that of a perpetrator. At least 10 people have been wounded.

Three armed attackers were earlier reported to be on the run. Police urged people to avoid public places.

The attack was at the Olympia mall in the north-western Moosach district. Public transport has been suspended.

Police helicopters are flying over the city and the elite border security unit, GSG9, has been flown in.

The body of the suspected attacker was found about 1km (0.6 miles) from the shopping centre, local media reported, and police were using a robot to check it for explosives.

No currently known links to terrorist organizations, body of the suspect found not far away. not covered in this particular article but mentioned in others (so treat as unconfirmed) as there may have been multiple shooters.

that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
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Posts

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    and just as we get started it seems to be over.
    BBC wrote:
    Munich police have said the suspected gunman in the attack killed himself and may have been acting on his own. The fresh information comes after earlier reports suggested there could have been three gunmen.

    police are giving a 'cautious all-clear' for now.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Man what is with reports about multiple gunmen repeatedly being wrong? I swear in the most recent shootings (jesus its depressing to say that) there have been reports of multiple shooters and yet not actually true.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Preacher wrote: »
    Man what is with reports about multiple gunmen repeatedly being wrong? I swear in the most recent shootings (jesus its depressing to say that) there have been reports of multiple shooters and yet not actually true.

    It is the norm. Reports of multiple gunmen are rarely correct but are very common because of confusion during the shootings. That one image floating around about common things during mass shootings/terrorist attacks has that on it for that reason.

    Couscous on
    RoyceSraphimPhoenix-DredxElvenshaetynic
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Man what is with reports about multiple gunmen repeatedly being wrong? I swear in the most recent shootings (jesus its depressing to say that) there have been reports of multiple shooters and yet not actually true.

    i think once these things kick off people get jumpy and false reports start streaming in. a few of these are bound to get to the press whether they're genuine mistakes or come from attention seekers. it certainly doesn't help but i don't think there's anyway that it can be stopped or avoided unfortunately.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I guess I can understand that, it just seems weird that multiple false reports of multiple gunmen have comeout.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Press conference in a few minutes.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Deutsche Bahn, the national rail operator, is allowing people to sleep in stationary night trains, and numerous mosques across Munich are staying open all night to offer shelter to those who have nowhere to go.

    :+1:

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Useless rumor report: rumors that it was a right-wing political attack, similarly rumors that it was an imitation of the attack in Nice or similarly inspired.

    Good on the Munich Police for refusing to comment further for the time being, since it still seems too early to say.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I guess I can understand that, it just seems weird that multiple false reports of multiple gunmen have comeout.

    For the Dallas shooting, it was I believe for 2 reasons. 1, the shooter had fired so many shots, most of them effective in harming or killing an officer, that it seemed like multiple shooters (instead of one highly trained shooter) and 2, because there were many people open carrying at the event which added to the confusion.

    I'm guessing that if open carry isn't a thing in Germany, then I would think it's a mistake less likely to happen there.

    RoyceSraphim
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I guess I can understand that, it just seems weird that multiple false reports of multiple gunmen have comeout.

    For the Dallas shooting, it was I believe for 2 reasons. 1, the shooter had fired so many shots, most of them effective in harming or killing an officer, that it seemed like multiple shooters (instead of one highly trained shooter) and 2, because there were many people open carrying at the event which added to the confusion.

    I'm guessing that if open carry isn't a thing in Germany, then I would think it's a mistake less likely to happen there.

    factor in return fire and it could get confusing as to where shots are coming from and who is involved. it really is a major factor in why its best to wait for confirmation of facts because there will be confusion and misinformation.

    Cambiata
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Let's not forget that people get disoriented in a panic and confuse directions when running for their lives.

    Edit

    An example

    I would have bet money that the perpetrators in a gun incident I witnessed were white or Hispanic, but the news of their conviction later revealed they were Pacific islanders.

    Why was I wrong? It was dark, I was surprised, and everyone was moving quickly before the shooting started (no fatalities).

    RoyceSraphim on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Wash your clothes Till the creek turn redRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    The idea that your average joe will have perfect recall when theyre being shot at for what is likely the first time in their life is about as probable as any "good guy with a gun" that has zero training and experience will have the cognizance to take out a shooter.

    Ive only been shot at with simunition chalk rounds, but the shots seem to come from every damn direction because your senses go on overload.

    jungleroomx on
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Useless rumor report: rumors that it was a right-wing political attack, similarly rumors that it was an imitation of the attack in Nice or similarly inspired.

    Good on the Munich Police for refusing to comment further for the time being, since it still seems too early to say.

    The police seem to have been incredible, providing a constant stream of information on where to go and what to do while locking down any speculation on the attack itself. They even explained that they were treating the incident as a terrorist attack so they were fully prepared for the worst case scenario, and that it was too soon to say if it actually was. The police in Nice were amazing too, by all accounts. I kinda hope the Gardai and other police forces are taking notes.


    znokrm.jpg [ Twitter]
    Synthesistynic
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Latest news: gunman was a second-generation(?) German of German/Iranian descent.

    Emissary42 on
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Press conference excerpts, copied from Guardian liveblog.

    The attacker was an 18-year-old German of Iranian descent. His body was found at 8:30pm local time, having shot himself.

    There were 10 dead, including the attacker, police say, and 21 wounded. There is no motive as yet.

    The gunman had lived in Munich for a long time, police chief Hubertus Andra tells the press conference, and had no previous criminal record.

    Asked about how many gunshots were fired and the type of weapon used in the shooting, Andra says that the investigation is still ongoing and they would not be releasing that information.

    He says that the victims’ names would not be released until all of the families have been contacted.

    The motive for the shooting, according to the police chief, remains “fully unclear” at this point.

    The attacker had both German and Iranian citizenship, Andra says.

    There are children among the injured, he says, and teenagers.

    There are also teenagers among the dead, police chief Andra adds.

    He ends with thoughts and prayers to the families of the victims, and says there is “no more danger.”

    ...

    An interesting tidbit from the press conference: a journalist asked a question about a “fake game” on Facebook that may have led people to believe the McDonalds where the attack took place was giving out free meals.

    The police chief said they were aware of it but couldn’t say if it was in any way linked.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    There seems to be an inclination in young people to latch on to a romanticized version of a culture they descend from but are not actually part of. Its something I think angry teens have always done. There were kids with Mexican parents who had never been to Mexico that were violently proud of being Mexican in my high school way back in the 90s. Same with Irish descendants wearing clovers and Notre Dame jackets.

    What is it that makes kids with parents/grandparents from that region not just latch on to the sort of inauthentic version of their heritage, but the extremist "call to action" that comes with it?

    It seems like just calling it extremist is a cheap way out of examination of why people feel pushed to that extreme.

    dispatch.o on
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Because when you're a kid identity doesn't come from yourself

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    From the rooftop conversation, it sounds like it's going to be a bullying victim going on a shooting spree, rather than a terrorist act though.

    HonkSiska
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    There seems to be an inclination in young people to latch on to a romanticized version of a cultural they descend from but are not actually part of. Its something I think people who are angry teens have always done it. There were kids with Mexican parents who had never been to Mexico that were violently proud of being Mexican in my high school way back in the 90s. Same with Irish descendants wearing clovers and Notre Dame jackets.

    What is it that makes kids with parents/grandparents from that region not just latch on to the sort of inauthentic version of their heritage, but the extremist "call to action" that comes with it?

    It seems like just calling it extremist is a cheap way out of examination of why people feel pushed to that extreme.

    The dominant narrative of western society is the idea of "belonging." In Europe that is belonging to the nation and the flag. In America, that is belonging to your race.

    Any force for good involves uniting under racial lines or under the flag. Any evil is the other, the other race, the other flag.

    But for many people, these lines are chains that bind them outside the social norm. Everyday interactions that are pleasant and friendly are constant reminders for these outsiders that they are not one of the many.

    For young men entering society, this desire for a sense of belonging pushes them in many directions. Some go into the arms of many lovers, others to drugs and addiction, others military service, others to explore the world. And then you have youth like this, whose isolation manifests into hatred for everyone, and manifests into violence.

    rockrngerArbitraryDescriptorButtcleftCalica
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    From the rooftop conversation, it sounds like it's going to be a bullying victim going on a shooting spree, rather than a terrorist act though.

    I got the impression that that video of the people yelling at him from the roof was a while after he'd originally opened fire, though. I don't think those people were the reason he did it.

    For those wondering, the video referenced is here. Someone linked it in the Nice thread. Harsh language in German, shots fired but it doesn't look like anyone got hit in the video.

  • hsuhsu Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    7lHJd9N.jpg

    hsu on
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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Sorta surprised to see that the shooter was Iranian, if only because IS and AQ ideology/propaganda doesn't apply to most Iranians (there is a Sunni minority). You really don't hear of Shia Muslims launching these kinds of attacks much nowadays, or at least, I don't.

    edit - on second thought I was too quick to relate this to international terrorism. I saw the screencap claiming the guy was yelling "Allahu Akbar" while shooting at people, but that does not necessarily reveal his motivations

    Kaputa on
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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    @HSU you have a source for that image?

    It's a statement that's been given on a few places, it's legit. Also saw it on a CNN stream here. That said, there's a contradictory account from another witness saying he was shouting something with a thick accent that may have sounded similar. There's also the rooftop argument which didn't refernce anything Islamic (and from the translation I saw, had a brief complaint about bullying as people screamed 'bloody Turks' at him).

    We just don't know motivations right now.

    Edit: Here's the reddit translation of the recording.

    Suriko on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    @HSU you have a source for that image?

    It's a statement that's been given on a few places, it's legit. Also saw it on a CNN stream here. That said, there's a contradictory account from another witness saying he was shouting something with a thick accent that may have sounded similar. There's also the rooftop argument which didn't refernce anything Islamic (and from the translation I saw, had a brief complaint about bullying as people screamed 'bloody Turks' at him).

    We just don't know motivations right now.

    Edit: Here's the reddit translation of the recording.

    Though that translation certainly presents a tragically plausible theory.

    As of this posting (in case it changes): Sounds like he maybe failed his finals, blames bullying, snapped.

    Suriko
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    eh, unless there are better quality recordings out there a lot of what they're translating is ... questionable.
    They're filling a lot of blanks where all I'm hearing is garbled speech.

    he does mention bullying, the 5th class and having being raised in germany, though.
    No mentions of finals, though.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Well fuck, if it is like an American mass shooting, I don't know whether I want to be relieved or disappointed.

  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amp/munich-shooting-rampage-police-search-clues-after-gunman-kills-9-n615371#

    Police chief saying no links to ISIS, was a teenager apparently obsessed with/has documents on various mass killings. Connection to Brevik.

    I'll admit I am relieved. I almost broke something when I read he was Iranian. Now the question is how the fuck did he get a gun?

    My heart goes out to Munich :(

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amp/munich-shooting-rampage-police-search-clues-after-gunman-kills-9-n615371#

    Police chief saying no links to ISIS, was a teenager apparently obsessed with/has documents on various mass killings. Connection to Brevik.

    I'll admit I am relieved. I almost broke something when I read he was Iranian. Now the question is how the fuck did he get a gun?

    My heart goes out to Munich :(

    eh, guns are easy to come by in europe what with poor wartorn african countries across a short stretch of water and poor ex-war torn countries to the east.
    The police are usually good at fishing the idiots out but this guy seems to have been self-contained lunacy.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Guns are controlled in Europe, not banned outright. In most countries you can get a gun license without too much cost or trouble. It's the type of guns you're allowed that are more carefully controlled, and your permission to own a gun is checked and renewed every couple of years instead of just allowing every idiot to have one by default.

    I'm in Ireland and while I don't own guns I have a family member who owns one. I don't think any of my friends own any guns, but I live in the city. In the country it's not unheard of for people to have a rifle or something somewhere about the house, it's just not particularly common as guns aren't particularly useful a lot of the time and even people who hunt are usually hunting with dogs rather than guns.

    So far as I know, Germany has different kinds of gun licenses, some sports-centric and some allowing you to carry a gun in public. The only surprise is that in the video people have been talking about the gunman apparently mentions psychiatric treatment, which oftentimes will disqualify you from gun ownership. It could be that his mental state wasn't seen as severe enough to bar him from owning a gun, or that he slipped through the cracks like the Cumbria shooter in the UK or that he stole someone else's gun. I expect we'll find out in the coming days.

    It's much, much harder to get your hands on the type of weapons that were used in something like the Paris attacks. From what I've read, they tend to be smuggled from the Ukraine to Belgium and then on to the target country. There have been a fair few arrests in both countries over the past few months where the smugglers have been caught. I'd been noticing the reports in the news and has assumed people were plotting to target the Euros, since the weapons were supposed to be smuggled into France. It might be that they were for the Bastille Day attack instead, and that was why the guy ended up with a bunch of fake guns and grenades. I would guess we'll find out more about that too.


    znokrm.jpg [ Twitter]
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    The only surprise is that in the video people have been talking about the gunman apparently mentions psychiatric treatment, which oftentimes will disqualify you from gun ownership.

    Once again, might be my ears but people are reading things into words.
    The words the kid uses are "stationaere Behandlung" which simply means he was treated for something at a hospital as opposed to regular checkups or recovery at home.
    This does not automatically make it a mental thing. He could have been operated on.

    The people shouting at the kid suggest a mental institution.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited July 2016
    I suppose my biggest question is where you get your hands on 300 rounds of ammo.

    saw some reports that the gun had the serial number filed off, but nothing verified.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I suppose my biggest question is where you get your hands on 300 rounds of ammo.

    saw some reports that the gun had the serial number filed off, but nothing verified.

    If you're in the US, Walmart. 300 rounds is not a lot.

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  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I'll admit I am relieved. I almost broke something when I read he was Iranian.

    As soon as I that I went "well at least it's not isis"

    Shortly before going "Oh fuck"

    mRahmani on
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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited July 2016
    Einzel wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    I suppose my biggest question is where you get your hands on 300 rounds of ammo.

    saw some reports that the gun had the serial number filed off, but nothing verified.

    If you're in the US, Walmart. 300 rounds is not a lot.

    That's my point. It is over here. Might as well be "eight pounds of C4" from a European context.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Einzel wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    I suppose my biggest question is where you get your hands on 300 rounds of ammo.

    saw some reports that the gun had the serial number filed off, but nothing verified.

    If you're in the US, Walmart. 300 rounds is not a lot.

    That's my point. It is over here. Might as well be "eight pounds of C4".

    Brass casings are trivially easy to refill and easy to come by. 300 rounds sounds scary, but in reality it's a pretty negligible amount of ammunition. I went to a really simple shotgun range with some friends once, running through the 25 shot clay pigeon course. 200 shells for half an hour's worth of shooting.

    enc0re
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    Munich gunman fixated on mass killing, had no Islamist ties
    A German-Iranian teenager who shot dead nine people in Munich was a deranged lone gunman obsessed with mass killings who drew no inspiration from Islamist militancy, police said on Saturday.

    The 18-year-old, born and raised locally, opened fire near a busy shopping mall on Friday evening, triggering a lockdown in the Bavarian state capital.

    Seven of his victims were themselves teenagers, who police said he may have lured to their deaths via a hacked Facebook account on what was the fifth anniversary of twin attacks by Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik that killed 77 people.
    ...
    The gunman was born and brought up in the Munich area and had spent time in psychiatric care, and there was no evidence to suggest he had an accomplice, Andrae said.

    Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said it was also too early to associate the Munich shootings with Breivik, who in 2011 shot dead 69 attendees at a youth summer camp hours after murdering eight others by detonating a van bomb in Oslo.
    ...
    Turkey's foreign minister said three Turkish citizens were among nine people killed in the Munich attack while Greece's foreign ministry said one Greek was among the dead. According to foreign media reports, there were also three Kosovo Albanian victims.
    ...
    De Maiziere said there were indications the killer had been bullied "by others his age".
    ..
    Three of his victims were 14 years old, two were 15, one was 17 and one 19. The others were 20 and 45, the police chief said.

    Seems more like Columbine than San Bernadino, Breivik or Nice/Orlando (where the ISIS link seems secondary to general mental illness/instability)

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    The only surprise is that in the video people have been talking about the gunman apparently mentions psychiatric treatment, which oftentimes will disqualify you from gun ownership.

    Once again, might be my ears but people are reading things into words.
    The words the kid uses are "stationaere Behandlung" which simply means he was treated for something at a hospital as opposed to regular checkups or recovery at home.
    This does not automatically make it a mental thing. He could have been operated on.

    The people shouting at the kid suggest a mental institution.

    Aha! That's probably that then. I haven't seen the video for myself, and I don't speak German anyway.


    znokrm.jpg [ Twitter]
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    It's mostly questionable where an 18 year old gets that gun, and all those bullets.
    Guns are around, but they mostly float around the criminal circuit and tend to mostly be used to shoot other criminals. Armed Robberies aren't a particular common crime here for instance.

    Automatic weapons mostly follow the Slovakian route: When Slovakia joined the EU they "creatively" interpreted the rules about "permanently disabling" automatic weapons, which are supposed to be sold for decorative purposes. Only the Slovakians, on purpose, did a very poor job of this, and a trained person could work such a weapon back into a usuable state in an hour or two.
    Only after the Paris attacks has the hammer gone down on this practice.

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  • GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    HSU you have a source for that image?

    I'd take whatever hsu says in these kind of threads with a giant pinch of salt

    I don't mean to be rude, but when you're linking to the French-Breton equivalent of Stormfront (as he did in a past thread), suspicion is in order

    Gator on
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