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Where can we move?
minirhyder
BerlinRegistered User regular
BerlinRegistered User regular
Hi all,
My girlfriend and I live in NYC; I've lived here for 19 years, she was born here. We're at the point in our lives where the city is just a bit too much and we'd like to move, but we don't know where.
We're looking for a less densely populated city (our biggest problem with NYC is that there's just too many people) to call home.
Some issues to consider, we're both LGBT women, and she's a POC. In NYC we've felt perfectly safe and accepted, so that's one of the most important things for us in this new city.
Other things that are important:
What are our options?
My girlfriend and I live in NYC; I've lived here for 19 years, she was born here. We're at the point in our lives where the city is just a bit too much and we'd like to move, but we don't know where.
We're looking for a less densely populated city (our biggest problem with NYC is that there's just too many people) to call home.
Some issues to consider, we're both LGBT women, and she's a POC. In NYC we've felt perfectly safe and accepted, so that's one of the most important things for us in this new city.
Other things that are important:
- I don't want to have to own a car. I'd like to be able to get most places I need to be via public transportation, being able to get by with a ZipCar subscription for those rare occasions where a car is necessary.
- We don't like guns. We feel uncomfortable around them, don't wish to own them, and feel uncomfortable with the idea that people around them might have them. We'd prefer to have similar gun restrictions as those in NYC.
What are our options?
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The crime rate is quite a bit higher than in NYC, though, which may be related to your concerns about guns.
Boston has pretty low crime and not really any gun culture. Not as great as NYC or SF for diversity, but it's also better than it's ever been right now.
Smaller midwest cities are largely out due to the car factor (if not gun culture). My sister is LGBT and loves Minneapolis and the community, but I haven't visited, so can't comment.
An hour or two to the west and we've got the ocean, an hour or two to the north and we've got Portland for when you wanna do big city shit. To the south you have northern California and the redwoods.
We have a very solid public transit system that's not very expensive and goes everywhere. Look up the Lane Transit District if you'd like to know more.
Crime isn't bad. Meth use (ajd related crimes like burglary) is the state's biggest issue, but that is going up pretty much everywhere. Oregon has no sales tax and recreational marijuana use is legal here if that is your jam.
I think the biggest thing to consider is what do you guys do? What fields are you in? If you do something specific for a living that may have a big impact on where you should go.
tl;dr west coast is best coast
Smaller than NY, but still a big city. Similar weather; depends on you if that's a pro or a con.
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Denver!
Large BI/IT scene, LGBT friendly as far as I can tell from my several visits, big city but spread over a large area and lots of cool activities. Not sure about guns though. Quite a few mass shooting in the past but I never felt intimidated by anyone there.
If you can afford it, look at the cities along the BART system in the California San Francisco Bay. If you live within walking distance of BART you can get to Oakland/SF in 20 minutes or less from all but the most distant stops. It's a very expensive location though and if home ownership is important, you may want to pass on California.
The Pacific Northwest has a few places that are islands of cool people in what could otherwise be considered Christian conservatives turf.
I live in a place where I can walk to work and Safeway, but to get to any transit center requires a drive or a very unreliable bus. Generally I find that you can be close to work or close to "stuff you want to do" but not really both.
Pick a city, find places to work and then find out how you're willing to get there. You can always rent a car for a weekend to do shopping and stuff in any location you decide to live, if you pick your apartment location right.
The density is the issue....in NYC there's crowds of people everywhere pretty much all the time. It's exhausting.
So...a larger area with the same population, or the same area with a slightly smaller population would be something up our alley.
<20,000 people/sq. mi. would be great. I think that doesn't disqualify most cities around the country?
Thanks for all the input so far!
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-Big tech sector
-Zip cars aplenty. Buses are...mediocre here but the light rail is expanding. Plus a big public shared bike system.
-I'm not lgbt but my friends who are seem pretty happy. From what I can tell nobody really cares about your orientation here and the pride fest is a blast (from a straight guy's perspective).
-Denver is getting more and more crowded and the housing market is absolutely insane right now, but there are many metro areas around that are still affordable and are connected by the light rail.
-Average amount of gun violence but I wouldn't say any more than any other big city. You learn real quick which areas to avoid after dark but then again I don't really party downtown late anymore.
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But yeah, my wife and I have contemplated moving back to a condo in Portland after the kids go to college, that's how much we enjoy it.
Also, I personally enjoyed Philadelphia a lot when I visited.
Oregon is super liberal as long as you stick to the stretch of I5 between those two cities. The rest of the state can be a little less so, but we've established a liberal enclave in Bend and we're spreading out from there.
It's also amazingly white. There was a black girl in my elementary school. One.
We don't have a lot of overt racism, but, well, I imagine the effect is similar to when I travel to Asia as a white guy. When I walk into a store, everyone stops and looks and there's a pause while they process "that person stands out" and then everything goes back to normal. But expect the looks.
Portland has gone through a huge transformation in the last couple of decades. It used to be a very working-class city, then it got "discovered" and gentrification has been a big political issue. Long time residents are being pushed to the edges, and there's some resentment there, but one of the things that may work out for you is that the core city is very viable as a car-free couple. I mean, you'll probably buy a Subaru after a couple of years and not know why you did it, but most of Portland is very well served by transit. Some of the suburbs are less well-served, and again some political nonsense there, see also that's where we stick the less-affluent portlanders who have suddenly been priced out of living in the neighborhoods they grew up in.
Eugene is a college town through and through, though there is a fair bit of tech and you shouldn't have any trouble finding employment. There are some pretty big parts of town with no nearby grocery so if you are car free you will need to carefully consider that. There is a big revamp to the local public transit going in using express buses instead of light rail, with some political noise around it, but once it's done it should be even more car-free-friendly.
As far as gun culture, Oregon has a lot of gun owners, but not a lot of the scary "the democrats are coming for my guns / I'm joining a militia" gun types. I joined a target shooting league for a while and it was just a bunch of nerds with a shared hobby, with lots of women present.
Not saying we don't have any tinfoil hat types, because they're out there, but they don't get a lot of traction because our gun laws are very liberal and it's hard to make the case for black helicopters and doors being kicked in when you can just walk into Cabelas or Wal-Mart and buy a gun after waiting 20 minutes for the background check.
We live in Astoria, Queens right now and we really love it. The issue arises when we have to go anywhere outside of Astoria, which is often, since we both work in Manhattan.
There's a lot of stuff we love about NYC and maybe we'll come back here at some point, but I think we're both due for a change of scenery in the near future.
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And it is honestly just a really odd metric to focus on, for example before Heller & Mcdonald struck them down Chicago had very strict gun laws and also lots and lots of murders. Where as like Austin has a murder rate about 10% lower than NYC(and 1/4 of Chicago's), but no one would say a gun is a hard thing to buy in Texas.
I know Santa Monica has a lot of tech as well. That part of LA is very safe as well.
Hahahaha, yes. The Subaru Outback is Oregon's state bird.
Chicago's mass transit is clearly not as good as NYC, but comes fairly close. It has subways/elevated tracks (the L), as well as buses for everything else. It's also very friendly to the LGBT community, with two distinct neighborhoods made up of primarily LGBT residents (Boy's Town and Andersonville). It's also a pretty diverse city, with African Americans making up about 32% of the city, and Hispanic/Latino making up another 25%.
I live on the far north side near Andersonville and I love it (also without a car for the last 5 years). It has the density that I want (dozens shops and restaurants never farther than a 2 block walk) without the overcrowded feeling I got from visiting Manhattan. Best of all, we have alleys where the garbage goes so the streets are clean, and never smell. Everyone I've ever talked to from NYC who visited basically said that Chicago was a cleaner NYC, with nicer people.
My parents live in croton on Hudson and it definitely has a sleepy, small town vibe although that would be tough without a car as it's pretty suburban
I also grew up in the triangle area in NC and while the state as a whole is conservative, the triangle and Asheville (a hippie mountain town that's quite lovely) are liberal and diverse. Chapel hill has/had a gay mayor for a while for instance.
But getting around NC without a car is not recommended.
It's being built up a lot, especially around the museum area. We have the GAYBORHOOD, and we're like a smaller version of NYC. You still get NJTRANSIT and SEPTA down there, so driving is not necessary, but then you also have real grocery stores. I used to live up in the Mt. Airy area, which was close to Chestnut Hill which is a quaint little part of the city I adore. But when I want to be free, South Street is where it's at.
Museums are on point, it's still a city but it's not so fucking crowded you want to punch everyone. Unlike NYC, Philly has one part of the damn city that tourists really visit, and it's easy to avoid. In NYC, ya can't escape the people.
I'm actually trying to convince my boyfriend to move to Philadelphia once I've completed my probation in Manhattan (I currently live in Jersey City, but work in Manhattan). Also our subway system is fucking easy.
Trust me, Philly is where it's at.
edit: also, Megabus/Bolt Bus to NYC, so you can always visit NYC when you want to.
Check out the NYC suburbs. They all turn into single family homes + yard when you go out far enough. Of course, subways get inconvenient that far out.
You put it better than I could so I'll just quote this.
The mass transit system has improved greatly here in the past few years. And based on what others have said, over the past half decade or so you have a lot more options. Living near downtown of course helps. There are public shared bikes, zip car, buses, the rail (which is being expanded constantly...if not slowly), etc. It really will come down to where you work.
As for gun violence...yes it's a western state...but it's pretty well balanced out by being a somewhat Blue state.
DC and Chicago are much more in line with your requirements.
That said, Austin does have a pretty stellar LGBT scene. And decent tech jobs.
But yeah. Guns, everywhere. And I manage okay without a car. But it's less than ideal for sure.
I am gonna throw my vote for Denver or Boulder, Colorado is pretty as hell and the people are generally pleasant.
Without the crazy high urban population it's not going to be a thing in the smaller cities.
Denver RTD plans to open two more lines until the end of the year so the total track length will be around 100 miles. That's 1/4th of NYC's but not too bad when you consider that its population is 1/10th of NYC metro area
I think you're underestimating just how much higher the density of NYC is compared to other cities. Most of the largest east coast cities will fulfill her only three requirements.
From you post I guess it has not been on the radar, but the things you list really says northern Europe and especially Denmark and the Netherlands. No guns, good public transport, cycling and LGBT safety are all big things there.
In the long term we'll most likely move to another country, but I think I'd like to wait until I have more job experience under my belt and getting employment overseas becomes easier.
And in the short term, we'd like to change scenery until that time comes.
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I'd be a bit worried moving to Chicago were I a PoC. As CPD seems to be trying to film a Deathwish reboot on their dash/body cams.
Also, a short train/bus away from NYC, should you miss family or friends.
It will almost always be harder to get work moving overseas, and as a POC you will experience a lot of racism as well.