Samuro is my boi! One shotting the win 3 games quest in QM. The thread deep diving his talents was helpful, but honestly, not necessary with his core game play. Just all around beast mode.
Lower the hp on his illusions even more, pretty much any ability should pop them. Let them withstand an AA or two. Don't heal the illusions when you swap to them.
This would make his Images completely 100% worthless. This is not the right solution.
His Images are a crucial part of his kit and a crucial part of his damage. Upping the cooldown or lowering their health % retention would help, but don't turn them into Healing Wards or Pufferfish. They're meant to be in the thick of things, they're not Holo Decoy.
I think short term they just need to bring his winrate down, so that probably means health+damage nerf, maybe increasing cooldowns. Longterm I'd like to see them remove all the ridiculous subtle defensive mechanics tied to Images. No more self-cleanse, no disjoints, no removal of dots or harmful effects.
Even further longterm, they could also poke and prod at Wind Walk if necessary. The whole "you destealth 1 sec after taking damage" thing is cool, but admittedly probably too powerful to be part of a baseline ability. It's already an activatable stealth that lasts for 8 seconds that also gives 30% movespeed and removes hitbox collision; does it really need the whole destealth protection on top of that?
Hrm, you could keep them as 50% health for dealing with minions/mercs.
They are way too meaty for anti hero stuff though, they should be annoying and do damage if they are ignored, but easily removed from the board if you use an ability on them.
I kinda feel like you missed the point of my post.
Let's say, yes, they do end up functioning the way you want them to. Okay, so Samuro hits Images, then a Valla uses Multishot and his Images pop like balloons.
What is even the point of Samuro having Images as an ability then? They're just gonna die to any and everything, why even does this ability exist now? They can't do anything. And then there goes a large chunk of his damage, Illusion Master becomes useless, Samuro only has two abilities now.
So again, wrong way to go about it. Images currently have 50% of your health, maybe that's too high? So lower that health percentage then, don't turn them into Healing Wards/Pufferfish because that makes the ability entirely useless. If 50% is too high, maybe 40% or 35% is better. These kinda things have levers and knobs that can be tuned up or down for a reason. We have a surgical knife to work with here, we don't need to take the hammer to them.
Seeing as he's almost at a 70% winrate, he probably needs to have a few hammers taken to him. HotS is unplayable right now and that they left him in the most broken state any hero has ever been in is super unfun.
Seeing as he's almost at a 70% winrate, he probably needs to have a few hammers taken to him. HotS is unplayable right now and that they left him in the most broken state any hero has ever been in is super unfun.
while samuro is really strong, i think people are overexaggerating the playstate. the game is not unplayable, nor is it unfun. this is not kael, this is not li ming, this is no where near tracer. this isn't even as bad as leoric release. yeah 2 out of 10 spots in QM are samuro, he is probably picked or banned in draft, but the games themselves are fine
Probably less bad than release Kael because LB+Ignite oops 5 people are dead was dumb, but worse than Li Ming and Tracer. He's Tracer's slipperyness on lower cooldowns with Zeratul's damage and way more hp.
Li Ming never even got to 60% iirc, and Tracer only barely did. Xul was higher than both of them.
the winrate while high, doesn't necessarily correlate to how fun/unfun the games are. playing any of of the following: kael, li-ming, tracer even now can ruin how fun a game is let alone when they were released. samuro doesn't do that.
edit: i'd add illidan and possibly medivh to the list of "unfun" sooner than samuro.
Basically when samu is on screen I just ignore him and his copies because it feels like a waste of time and talents to try and counter him.
Only when we're ahead in a team fight and you can see where he has to disengage and then maaaaaaybe you can chase. Even then it's only if you can catch up to him and punish him, which is very rare.
I've been trying out living bomb build on Karl instead of flames trike. It's fun! Questions
Lvl 1 : mana quest or base 4% ap talent.
Lvl...umm I don't remember, the one with 3 living bomb talents : slow, cool down reduce or bigger explosion.
I've been going mana and bigger explosion
Those are typically my choices
Same. All 3 LB talents are solid, but the explosion spreading is what the whole build is about. Give me more radius and make sure it happens.
Sometimes, though, I'll take the slow against hyper mobile teams. I still take the radius boost into Samuro, but the slow would have a lot of value, too.
Pyromaniac at 13, the one that reduces your cooldowns, is REALLY good. Straight up insane amounts of hurt on people. You are just slinging out Living Bombs everywhere and firing off stuns and aoe.
Seeing as he's almost at a 70% winrate, he probably needs to have a few hammers taken to him. HotS is unplayable right now and that they left him in the most broken state any hero has ever been in is super unfun.
while samuro is really strong, i think people are overexaggerating the playstate. the game is not unplayable, nor is it unfun. this is not kael, this is not li ming, this is no where near tracer. this isn't even as bad as leoric release. yeah 2 out of 10 spots in QM are samuro, he is probably picked or banned in draft, but the games themselves are fine
Yeeeup.
He's broken, he's OP, he needs nerfs, no one's arguing that.
But he is nowhere near the level that Thrall/Li-Ming/Kael'thas were. "Most broken state any hero has ever been in" is, uh, not true.
Like I and other people have been saying, it's mostly the fact that he's extremely safe and survivable, Wind Walk provides one of the dumbest safest engages ever, and he basically goes unpunished all game.
His damage? Probably on the high side, yes. Not the primary factor as to why he's broken though. It's all in his Q and his E.
Samuro is annoying to play against but not necessarily... "unfun", I think? Like yeah it's not FUN to play against OP heroes, it never is. But it's not the same as say, playing vs a Nova that can pop you instantly. Or a god tier Chromie who's landing ALL her skillshots. THAT'S unfun. Samuro is too strong right now, he's annoying to play against, but I wouldn't say he's "unfun" to play against.
I think some of this is being blown out of proportion. We all know he's bonkers, but maybe not as much as people are making him out to be. Again, it's more in the sense that he can slip in, do his thing, and slip out completely unpunished.
I mentioned it a few pages back, but to me he's Release Tracer OP. Annoying, unfun to deal with and toxic to the game's balance till he's fixed.
It's different from like Li-Ming, Thrall, etc.
i disagree because i don't think he invalidates heroes while simultaneously being super safe
He totally does.
Tried to do a few Nova games recently and just ... nope. After about lvl 10 I was deleted every fight and there was essentially nothing my team could do to save me. Attack out of Wind Walk, Q, Bladestorm, dead, E away.
Lower the hp on his illusions even more, pretty much any ability should pop them. Let them withstand an AA or two. Don't heal the illusions when you swap to them.
This would make his Images completely 100% worthless. This is not the right solution.
His Images are a crucial part of his kit and a crucial part of his damage. Upping the cooldown or lowering their health % retention would help, but don't turn them into Healing Wards or Pufferfish. They're meant to be in the thick of things, they're not Holo Decoy.
I think short term they just need to bring his winrate down, so that probably means health+damage nerf, maybe increasing cooldowns. Longterm I'd like to see them remove all the ridiculous subtle defensive mechanics tied to Images. No more self-cleanse, no disjoints, no removal of dots or harmful effects.
Even further longterm, they could also poke and prod at Wind Walk if necessary. The whole "you destealth 1 sec after taking damage" thing is cool, but admittedly probably too powerful to be part of a baseline ability. It's already an activatable stealth that lasts for 8 seconds that also gives 30% movespeed and removes hitbox collision; does it really need the whole destealth protection on top of that?
Hrm, you could keep them as 50% health for dealing with minions/mercs.
They are way too meaty for anti hero stuff though, they should be annoying and do damage if they are ignored, but easily removed from the board if you use an ability on them.
I kinda feel like you missed the point of my post.
Let's say, yes, they do end up functioning the way you want them to. Okay, so Samuro hits Images, then a Valla uses Multishot and his Images pop like balloons.
What is even the point of Samuro having Images as an ability then? They're just gonna die to any and everything, why even does this ability exist now? They can't do anything. And then there goes a large chunk of his damage, Illusion Master becomes useless, Samuro only has two abilities now.
So again, wrong way to go about it. Images currently have 50% of your health, maybe that's too high? So lower that health percentage then, don't turn them into Healing Wards/Pufferfish because that makes the ability entirely useless. If 50% is too high, maybe 40% or 35% is better. These kinda things have levers and knobs that can be tuned up or down for a reason. We have a surgical knife to work with here, we don't need to take the hammer to them.
I didn't miss it, I just disagree with it. Just because I don't instantly say you are right doesn't mean I am not reading it. C'mon.
The point of the illusions should be to do damage as long as they are ignored, like I called out in my post. They should not be there to increase his hp to 2-3x another heroes. He is an assassin, not a warrior. They are there to confuse and allow for escape, not to tank the enemy for you instead of a warrior.
He pops images, pops critical, does the initial damage. The other player drops an AoE and takes out the illusions.
Why does a single Samuro basic ability need to be counteracted by like 3 to 5 enemy abilities in order for you to consider it "balanced"? It is already free, doing damage, increasing his survivability, lowering the enemies chance to escape, don't give experience for killing, and potentially increasing his mobility.
He is majorly suffering from kitchen sink syndrome, and I don't think you are seeing it, because you like him so much.
Lower the hp on his illusions even more, pretty much any ability should pop them. Let them withstand an AA or two. Don't heal the illusions when you swap to them.
This would make his Images completely 100% worthless. This is not the right solution.
His Images are a crucial part of his kit and a crucial part of his damage. Upping the cooldown or lowering their health % retention would help, but don't turn them into Healing Wards or Pufferfish. They're meant to be in the thick of things, they're not Holo Decoy.
I think short term they just need to bring his winrate down, so that probably means health+damage nerf, maybe increasing cooldowns. Longterm I'd like to see them remove all the ridiculous subtle defensive mechanics tied to Images. No more self-cleanse, no disjoints, no removal of dots or harmful effects.
Even further longterm, they could also poke and prod at Wind Walk if necessary. The whole "you destealth 1 sec after taking damage" thing is cool, but admittedly probably too powerful to be part of a baseline ability. It's already an activatable stealth that lasts for 8 seconds that also gives 30% movespeed and removes hitbox collision; does it really need the whole destealth protection on top of that?
Hrm, you could keep them as 50% health for dealing with minions/mercs.
They are way too meaty for anti hero stuff though, they should be annoying and do damage if they are ignored, but easily removed from the board if you use an ability on them.
I kinda feel like you missed the point of my post.
Let's say, yes, they do end up functioning the way you want them to. Okay, so Samuro hits Images, then a Valla uses Multishot and his Images pop like balloons.
What is even the point of Samuro having Images as an ability then? They're just gonna die to any and everything, why even does this ability exist now? They can't do anything. And then there goes a large chunk of his damage, Illusion Master becomes useless, Samuro only has two abilities now.
So again, wrong way to go about it. Images currently have 50% of your health, maybe that's too high? So lower that health percentage then, don't turn them into Healing Wards/Pufferfish because that makes the ability entirely useless. If 50% is too high, maybe 40% or 35% is better. These kinda things have levers and knobs that can be tuned up or down for a reason. We have a surgical knife to work with here, we don't need to take the hammer to them.
I didn't miss it, I just disagree with it. Just because I don't instantly say you are right doesn't mean I am not reading it. C'mon.
The point of the illusions should be to do damage as long as they are ignored, like I called out in my post. They should not be there to increase his hp to 2-3x another heroes. He is an assassin, not a warrior. They are there to confuse and allow for escape, not to tank the enemy for you instead of a warrior.
He pops images, pops critical, does the initial damage. The other player drops an AoE and takes out the illusions.
Why does a single Samuro basic ability need to be counteracted by like 3 to 5 enemy abilities in order for you to consider it "balanced"? It is already free, doing damage, increasing his survivability, lowering the enemies chance to escape, don't give experience for killing, and potentially increasing his mobility.
He is majorly suffering from kitchen sink syndrome, and I don't think you are seeing it, because you like him so much.
Dude I have literally made multiple posts in this thread over the last few pages about how stupid and busted he is and how his Q/E have too much baseline power
I do like him, but I also recognize that he's broke as fuck. And as I said, I've made multiple posts talking about this.
Don't conflate my enjoyment of the character for not being able to recognize that he's broken.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
0
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Lower the hp on his illusions even more, pretty much any ability should pop them. Let them withstand an AA or two. Don't heal the illusions when you swap to them.
This would make his Images completely 100% worthless. This is not the right solution.
His Images are a crucial part of his kit and a crucial part of his damage. Upping the cooldown or lowering their health % retention would help, but don't turn them into Healing Wards or Pufferfish. They're meant to be in the thick of things, they're not Holo Decoy.
I think short term they just need to bring his winrate down, so that probably means health+damage nerf, maybe increasing cooldowns. Longterm I'd like to see them remove all the ridiculous subtle defensive mechanics tied to Images. No more self-cleanse, no disjoints, no removal of dots or harmful effects.
Even further longterm, they could also poke and prod at Wind Walk if necessary. The whole "you destealth 1 sec after taking damage" thing is cool, but admittedly probably too powerful to be part of a baseline ability. It's already an activatable stealth that lasts for 8 seconds that also gives 30% movespeed and removes hitbox collision; does it really need the whole destealth protection on top of that?
Hrm, you could keep them as 50% health for dealing with minions/mercs.
They are way too meaty for anti hero stuff though, they should be annoying and do damage if they are ignored, but easily removed from the board if you use an ability on them.
I kinda feel like you missed the point of my post.
Let's say, yes, they do end up functioning the way you want them to. Okay, so Samuro hits Images, then a Valla uses Multishot and his Images pop like balloons.
What is even the point of Samuro having Images as an ability then? They're just gonna die to any and everything, why even does this ability exist now? They can't do anything. And then there goes a large chunk of his damage, Illusion Master becomes useless, Samuro only has two abilities now.
So again, wrong way to go about it. Images currently have 50% of your health, maybe that's too high? So lower that health percentage then, don't turn them into Healing Wards/Pufferfish because that makes the ability entirely useless. If 50% is too high, maybe 40% or 35% is better. These kinda things have levers and knobs that can be tuned up or down for a reason. We have a surgical knife to work with here, we don't need to take the hammer to them.
I didn't miss it, I just disagree with it. Just because I don't instantly say you are right doesn't mean I am not reading it. C'mon.
The point of the illusions should be to do damage as long as they are ignored, like I called out in my post. They should not be there to increase his hp to 2-3x another heroes. He is an assassin, not a warrior. They are there to confuse and allow for escape, not to tank the enemy for you instead of a warrior.
He pops images, pops critical, does the initial damage. The other player drops an AoE and takes out the illusions.
Why does a single Samuro basic ability need to be counteracted by like 3 to 5 enemy abilities in order for you to consider it "balanced"? It is already free, doing damage, increasing his survivability, lowering the enemies chance to escape, don't give experience for killing, and potentially increasing his mobility.
He is majorly suffering from kitchen sink syndrome, and I don't think you are seeing it, because you like him so much.
I think you're underestimating the ability of good players to easily mitigate or straight up delete anything on the board that dies in one hit. There's always a shell game that goes on with cooldowns and abilities, and having something that basically takes "one hit" or "one ability" will never have that much of an impact. See: Nova's Decoy, Anub'arak's Beetles, or even Gazlowe's Turrets
If Mirror Images were like Nova's Decoys, which you seem to be arguing for they would be just as easily dismissed, and there wouldn't be much of a meaningful gameplay difference between the two - you'd basically just be popping it and hoping you get lucky.
The real issue has nothing to do with the HP or damage that the Mirror Images put out. If you can't tell them apart pretty quickly then you likely are at the same skill level where Nova deletes everyone in your QM games, too. At that point, there's nothing short of a glaring visual marker that will help you. And honestly, they could totally throw that in there, or make it so that there are no actual Mirror Images at all, and it would still be a ridiculously good skill. The problem is that Mirror Images not only serves to de-target you, it gives you an RNG teleport and actively debuffs a huge number of skills and abilities. It's basically a stronger version of self-Cleanse. You couple that with Wind Walk, particularly with Shukuchi, and he can escape almost any situation, no matter how stupid he was to get in there in the first place.
That's the real problem. I can easily identify the real Samuro in any given game. I can even pop him from stealth before he engages, and maybe I can by myself bring him down to half HP while all of that is happening. But once he's any real danger when the rest of my team shows up, he has the tools to escape almost an entire team wailing on him, and there's nothing they can do to finish the kill short of blowing all of their corresponding cooldowns. That's the asymmetry that is causing him to be such an issue. If he were able to actually be punished for ass-stupid play, it would be fine. But he can run around and do whatever the fuck he wants whenever the fuck he wants, and in the hands of a good player that basically makes him an unkillable god, because you won't be able to do basic stuff like merc your own camps.
This is why people are comparing him to Zeratul. You play him the same way, except that he can push a lane, 1v1 most of the hero roster, solo merc camps - and in the rare situations he won't win a fight, he can just run away. If they are going to insist on keeping his basic kit so strong, they need to do something drastic like dump his HP down to 80% of where it is now, otherwise he is impossible to punish. But that then causes the problem of turning him into a hit-and-run hero, which is literally what Zeratul does now. They want to have Samuro do sustained auto attack damage, and reconciling that with the innate strength of his kit is difficult to do.
Just because I can identify him, doesn't mean I can hit him. Since he has two meatwalls he can position to block hits for him, and as you mentioned his windwalk to escape.
His illusions should not be able to eat a dragon's breath or sandblast from Chromie, and still be standing to block another shot. Even if you can pop them with one ability, they would still be doing a lot of their damage, from when he first pulls them out with critical strike active and he gets that alpha strike.
Gul'dan is great against Samuro. He shits out damage in all directions, and Samuro doesn't actually do enough damage to kill him through a Life Drain. He also can't interrupt the Life Drain. And if Gul'dan Life Drains one of his clones and he kills it, he'll just Health Funnel to reset the cooldown.
and Samuro doesn't actually do enough damage to kill him through a Life Drain.
wait, really? Life drain felt super anemic when I tried it, a Nazeebo was easily able to outdamage the healing I got from it. I can't imagine Samuro, as a melee assassin, can't match that against a rooted target.
I was doing it to Sammies the other day, and K1Pro did it to me last night. Until you get 16, and pick up Harsh Winds, he can just stand there and Life Drain your ass. You'll trade pretty evenly. After Harsh Winds, though, shit starts to turn over in Samuro's favor.
Weekend hots, man. I get home from work and hop on that QM as Samuro. Having great games, but we lost both. Why? Because on the first match, we had a teammate who fed 11 deaths. Kept dying right before the objectives, so we had to abandon them. I did my best to salvage the map by taking all the camps while the other team won the objective. But it ended up just not being enough. Second game? We had one teammate who fed 10 deaths and another who fed 11. Like, I don't care what anybody says -- there isn't shit you can do when two of your teammates feed 21 deaths between the two of them.
OK, got ETC to level 10, time for a switch. Next up is Li Li. Played my first game with her and it, well, didn't go so well. Switching from a crowd controller to a healer is going to take some getting used to.
Hints, builds, tips, advice for her?
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
OK, got ETC to level 10, time for a switch. Next up is Li Li. Played my first game with her and it, well, didn't go so well. Switching from a crowd controller to a healer is going to take some getting used to.
Hints, builds, tips, advice for her?
LiLi has a lot of build flexibility. She is at her best, however, against auto-attack heavy comps. Even if you spec her for full healing, she just doesn't have the throughput to match burst DPS heroes such as Li-Ming outside of her ult, Cups. But if the other team doesn't quite have enough burst or is built for sustained fights, she really shines as a second support who can put out a surprising amount of DPS and act as a damage/CC sponge for the team.
General Notes
1) Always Spam Q. LiLi has no burst healing. You cannot afford to not be healing someone whenever the cooldown is available. Many players go to the extent of just holding it down or macroing it so that it's held continuously, rather than trying to hit the button constantly. I prefer a little bit more control in case I can't quite get in the right range of the people I want to heal, but I think there's a good justification for just hitting it whenever it's on cooldown regardless, given LiLi's healing output.
2) Do not spam anything else. People often complain about LiLi being mana constrained, and I suspect that some of it has to do with them spamming all her shit all the time. Don't do it. A Blinding Wind cast in the middle of a lane with no chance of killing someone is a huge expenditure of mana for a useless amount of damage, and burns one of your most important damage mitigation abilities to boot. Cloud Serpent similarly has little value outside of an actual fight unless you've talented for it and you need to do something like clear minions very quickly.
3) There is an argument to be made that at Level 1, you would always take Conjurer's Pursuit, especially since at 20 you almost always get Kung Fu Hustle. I think it's a crutch talent, but if you consistently find yourself running out of mana then it's worth considering, especially since it scales very well late game and lets you spam everything all the time.
4) There is also an argument to be made that you always take Cleanse at Level 7. I find Cleanse to be almost useless at low or even middle levels of play. People don't expect it to be cast, and they don't necessarily have the skill to take advantage of it once they have it (e.g., you Cleanse someone caught in a Xul root and they just stand there and die anyway). But if you want to practice with it, it's basically a mandatory skill at higher levels of play (unless you're playing with a second support who also has Cleanse), so YMMV.
5) The biggest thing you can do as a LiLi player that will differentiate your skill is your positioning (sound familiar?). LiLi's only targeted skill is Cloud Serpent. Both her Q and her E are entirely dependent upon your positioning, the range of those skills, and the targets available within that range.
For Healing Brew, you will always heal the lowest HP hero within range. So if you have two teammates, a Valla who is in the back running away safely with 10 HP and a Tyrael who is in the front still taking damage at half HP, you want to heal the latter. The only way to do that is to make sure that Tyrael is the only hero in the circular range of your Q. Or that he is the hero with the lowest HP in that range. Otherwise, if you hit Q, Valla will be the one getting healed, and that doesn't help your team at all because she has to tap well or hearth regardless. There is a little marker that tells you who her heal target is, to help you with this.
Blinding Wind works similarly, except in reverse. For one, it requires at least one hero to be in range when it is cast. More importantly, though, it will always target the two closest enemy heroes to you. Read that last bit again. This is the key to being able to target your Blinding Wind on the appropriate enemy hero. If you are way out in Antarctica away from your team, and Greymane dives on your back line, but you're closer to the other team's Muradin and Thrall, then you will only blind Muradin and Thrall. Both are fine targets. But neither is the one you really want to be blinding.
Being able to keep track of your positioning for both your Healing Brew and Blinding Wind will be what turns you from a noob button-spammer LiLi to a god-tier LiLi who makes incredible saves even though it seems like she can't heal much of anything at all.
6) Always take Jugs. Water Dragon is a win-more ult, and even then only useful when you are going double support (in which case I would much rather have Jugs so that Malfurion can have Twilight Dream or Rehgar can have Bloodlust). Even if you never use it, taking Jugs forces the other team to respond in kind with abilities and ults, much like Mosh Pit. Like, should Tyrael probably always take Sanc? Probably. But if he's the only one with a consistent ranged stun on his team, he might be forced to take Judgment instead, and you might be able to bait him into diving too far and picking him off.
On that note, always save Jugs for when you've seen big stuns go out. Or if you know there is something out there, like a Muradin with Heavy Impact, keep that in mind and make sure you are out of range enough to juke it whenever it comes. (Again, this boils down to positioning.)
7) Shrink Ray is legit. Do not understimate it. You can throw it out right at the start of a fight against someone like a Li-Ming. Or you can wait for a dive hero to jump in and then dump it on them (Kerrigan gets straight up dumpstered by Shrink Ray, especially if she popped Maelstrom beforehand). It's basically an anti-Cleanse.
8) Kung Fu Hustle is in every build for a reason. Just like Shrink Ray, it is legit. This is the talent that turns LiLi from a pretty good support to a huge pain in the ass who can take a ton of damage and yet still spit out tons of healing and damage in return. It's one of the largest power spikes, even for a "Storm Talent", in the game. Just watch your mana once you hit 20, especially if you didn't take Conjurer's Pursuit.
Anyway, on to builds:
Serpent:http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#oULJ
This is my go-to build. I look at whether or not the other team has a ton of burst damage or a ton of AA damage (think Raynor + Greymane). If they aren't stacked heavily in either direction, then I like to go with this build as a good way to "split the difference". People significantly underestimate both the damage and the healing that this build can do. All you have to do with this build is put the Serpent on a target that you know will take chip damage, such as the tank, and then spam Q. Once you get Serpent Sidekick at 16, it frees you up to play more aggressively in terms of soaking up damage for other people, because you will have a sustained source of healing on yourself. Once you get Kung Fu Hustle, you can do stupid stuff like put a Serpent on almost your entire time, which is a ridiculous amount of sustained damage and healing in a fight.
Blinds: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#seSP
This one is a little trickier. At Level 4 you actually have a decent choice between the two Blind talents. I prefer the one which hits more targets, because it synergizes with the damage upgrade at Level 1. However, there are situations where you might prefer Lingering Blind, particularly if you are against a Greymane or a Raynor (or lately, even a Valla). But you have to be very confident in your ability to blind your intended target if you take Lingering Blind. Again, once you get Kung Fu Hustle, you can be a little more liberal in using Blinding Wind because you will have it up far more often, and you will be doing a lot of damage every time it is cast.
Moar Heals:http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#gRCP
This is probably the build you'll see the most use out of as a solo support LiLi, particularly if the other team has a lot of burst ability damage (such as double mage). You have some flexibility at Level 4. I really like Healing Ward, because even if it doesn't heal, I can use it prematurely to block a skill shot like a bullshit Li-Ming orb. Don't underestimate its healing and distraction value in the middle of a team fight, or even just to top off your team as you're doing something like taking the boss. But, Mass Vortex is arguably just as good, if not better, because you can shut down nearly all of a team's AA damage for several seconds, which adds up even for non-AA comps.
FYI, you don't need a hero in range to Blinding Wind. It works on all enemies.
For Li-Li in generally the key is to run around alot, in and out of the front line healing people and blinding people and just being a fucking irritating unkillable healing nuisance. The enemy team should hate your fucking guts. Make sure to AA whenever you can too as the opportunity will come up more then you'd think and it adds enough damage to be meaningful. Generally you kinda wanna move forward and attack the enemy and then run away when they try to counter-engage you. Move near people who need heals, drop a serpent on anyone going deep and Blind when the enemy AAers move in to attack. Just fucking dance around and be a pest, it's loads of fun.
Conjurer's Pursuit cause this will enable the spam Q build with Kung Fu Hustle you will be running by the end.
Mass Vortex because it's better damage mitigation and makes it FAR more likely to hit the target you need it to.
Pitch Perfect similar to lvl 1 choice, it enables spamming Q like a motherfucker, especially after hitting 20.
13 and 16 are left open cause there's alot of choice available there. Though I will say my favourite way to go is Hindering Wind, Two for One. Unless they have stuns/roots, in which case Shake It Off. To elaborate.
Frankly basically everything at 13 is a great skill and it all depends what you want and need. Surging Winds buffs your heals too but I've kinda stopped liking it as much. Shrink Ray is as good as it's ever been. Elusive Feet is a really niche pick I'd say and only take it if you really need the block and even then ... eh. But my favourite is Hindering Winds. That slow works fantastic for getting away and for chasing people down. It is nasty as fuck.
At 16, the new Shake if Off is really good if the enemy has alot of stuns or roots they'll be landing on you. Two for One is good for spreading the healing around and the increased cooldown is offset well by your lvl 20 choice. I'd basically recommend it as the default. Safety Sprint is, uh, good enough if you don't want to take either of the other two above (mostly cause they don't have stuns/roots and you don't wanna increase the cooldown on your heal for whatever reason). Serpent Sidekick is still decent but since you aren't investing in serpents it's just kinda there.
20 is Kung Fu Hustle, which makes you a real beast at healing and really pulls the whole build together. Make sure to swing forward into the front line area to take some damage to turn your trait on so KFH is working.
With this build you will have practically infinite sustain and healing in the late game. You can support your team and harass the enemy constantly and are ridiculously hard to kill.
Several good builds and notes. Thanks guys! I was leaning towards mass-healing, but I want to try a Dragon build too. I'll let ya' know how I do later.
Finally got my stream up and did a few test co-op test games with the wife. Naturally, I didn't know I had to enable the save broadcast feature so it's all gone. Live and learn I guess.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
I do have a few questions about brightwing. Early game I felt pretty useless, I just didn't have the healing power, any tips for early game team fights? Also should brightwing try to lane solo or back someone up? I moved around a lot with Z, but when nothing was going on I stuck on a lane with another player, but was unsure if I should've been trying to solo a lane, I went blink heal at 10, not sure if that the normal, but it felt pretty powerful, such a short cooldown.
Brightwing typically flits about like the faerie dragon they are. Move between lanes to keep people healed up with your passive heal.
You are good at split pushing, since you can easily jump across the map. You can wave clear, but I wouldn't focus on one lane unless you are specifically split pushing, you probably want to stay near someone who can take advantage of your constant free heal. Try to save your Z to jump up to turn a 1v1 into a 2v1, or to get to the team fight quickly.
Blink heal is the usual ult choice, since it gives you an on demand heal.
Morkath on
0
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
BW is surprisingly contentious even in the pro meta. There are people who think she does little healing and is a trash support, and others who think she's top tier. It's really weird.
Personally, I never feel like I'm being impactful as BW when I play her. It always feels like I'm not doing as much healing as I should, and Poly has such a small window that teammates rarely take advantage of it, and the other team just shoves through anyway. Because she has an AOE passive heal, your teammates need to be aware of where she is and have to get back to her or stay in range if they need heals. This is where I think the biggest problem with playing BW lies - your teammates have to not be potatoes and be able to take care of themselves or at least be aware enough that they aren't going to magically get saved by a clutch long-range heal. Anyway, there are definitely people who play her and never seem to have those problems and can legit make amazing plays and do tons of hero damage without being punished for it.
She's a global hero, so a big part of what you should be doing with her is soaking lanes or doing other things that add value (such as getting merc camps) when typically you would be grouped with your team, and then teleporting in whenever a fight is about to break out.
Also, most people take Emerald Wind nowadays, unless you absolutely need the mobility with Blink Heal.
source: brightwing is my main and the first hero I hit level 10 with. 113 games played, 55% win rate (which is actually p good from what I understand).
STOP WORRYING ABOUT THA HEALS. Healing is not the be all and end all game here. You want to play her more like a League of Legends support -- you are here for weird utility and to set up kills.
The Brightwing Playstyle is: knowing your positioning real gud so you don't die and so your healz work, and being an enormous little troll constantly going "hee hee" at your desk. You are here to troll the enemy and make them sad. You are here to juke, slide, get into seemingly dangerous spots and then suddenly not be there. You want to bait them and then poly + wind + phase the fuck out. Be a bastard. You are not a friendly healer. You are an asshole healer.
In my opinion, playing Brightwing as a straight healer is a waste of time. There are so many other characters who do the healing game better than her. Be Li-Li or Morales or Rehgar or something if you want a straight up healer. "But the aoe" NO. BW's real strength is in being a troll who sets up kills, who is a slippery fuck who baits people into attacking her and then leaves, and in general is a jerk. Who also happens to heal a bit.
ok #1, yer abilities:
Soothing Mist: we know about this and you know what? don't even worry about it. Just try to stay close to peeps who need healz. That's it.
Phase Shift: Brightwing's true bread and butter. She has no mount, but she can be anywhere her friends are. A N Y W H E R E. Much more importantly, backing for you has *almost no cost*. You don't need to healing fountain, you can get out of the fight, B, and IMMEDIATELY be back in the action at full mana and health -- for you, the only real cost is the time it takes to use B and for your health to return. THIS. IS. HUGE. If you can learn to manage this aspect you will literally never run out of mana. This is the true, greatest power of Phase Shift and the reason I *always* take Hyper Shift.
Arcane Flare: Good for wave clear, but becoming Actually Good at BW requires learning to nail heroes with the middle. The middle of the shot is actually quite beefy, it's just hard to land. I've found that some players assume that Flare is lame and that they don't need to worry about it. You can indeed secure kills with this if you learn how to time and lead your shots so heroes blunder into the sweet spot zone. You can also use it to zone and force players who DO know about the middle bit to move... preferably into your friend's skillshot. The thing is, your main deal as a support is making sure your pals can kill stuff moar bettar, and one of those aspects is being irritating and setting up kills for your friends.
Polymorph: AWWWW YISSSSSS THA GUD SHIT. Polymorph is, imho, the best hard shutdown in the game. THE BEST. Targets be slowed, silenced, and can't attack. It is THE way that you ruin Cho'Gall's day, bc Gall actually can't cast through it (if nothing's changed anyway). It will ruin Tracer if she gets hit by it, because she can't rewind while she's a sheep. If somebody ain't unstoppable, shut down their ults. Just. Just. SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING. I usually tell people at the beginning of a match "Please focus my poly targets." This doesn't always work, but when it does, it's great. If your team isn't focusing poly targets properly, use it instead to shut down channeled abilities and to take the heat off for a few seconds. Morales is a great target for this because of how her heal works -- even a tiny interrupt can give your guys a precious few seconds to burst a squishy target down.
Pixie Dust: Used to be better as it used to be two straight up blocks. Now it's just reduce the next 2 attacks by 75%. It's still good, and the better utility is that it increases movement speed by 20%. This is actually more important than THA HEALZ I find. You want to use it to help other heroes secure escapes. This is also your equivalent of a burst heal -- use it to save somebody who is taking a lot of heat from someone like Butcher so your Soothing Mist can keep them up. With Manic Pixie and Shield Dust, it becomes even better at that function
My usual build is
1. Hyper Shift. Brightwing is about lane presence. Your best and greatest power is your ability to be where you need to be on demand. Again, a HUGE deal is being able to B and IMMEDIATELY be back to full health and mana. "But tha heals, they don't cost mana" yeah but your other utility shit DOES, and YOU CANT HEAL IF YOU ARE DEAD.
If you know for a fact that you need Peekaboo (enemy Nova, Zera, or Sam) then you absolutely MUST take this talent. I'll get to that soon.
On smaller maps, or with people you KNOW will reliably group up (eg, no Zera, Sam, or Nova), you can take Unfurling Spray. I usually find that Unfurling Spray isn't as nece
I haven't played in a while so I don't know the utility of the new Pixie Charm (Bribe), but it may be good on maps with a lotta mercs (Cursed Hollow, maybe?).
4. IF [Stealth Hero] THEN Peekaboo, ELSE Manic Pixie. With Hyper Shift and Mistified, you can use this ability A LOT. A whole fucking lot. With some games, I've been able to get it off more often than Tassadar's vision. I haven't played against Samuro yet so I am not sure how good it is against him since he has that dumb unblockable stealth garbage, but eh, anything that can help against that jerk, right? Extra fun is going B, then Phase Shifting back with Peekaboo. Hi stealth dude, I'm at full AND I can see you
Manic Pixie turns Pixie Dust into more of an on-demand single-target heal. You do want to keep an eye on Soothing Mist to make sure it procs right after you land Pixie Dust, but that combo can actually heal for quite a bit.
7. MISTIFIED IS BETTER THAN PHASE SHIELD ON A PHASE SHIFT + PEEKABOO BASED BUILD. I know people will disagree with me, but they're wrong. Mistified makes Soothing Mist proc more often. Soothing Mist proccing more often means Hyper Shift procs more often. Hyper Shift proccing more often means Phase Shift is up more, which means more HI STEALTH LOSERS It also means Manic Pixie does its thing more often because well, soothing mist happens more often! And remember, because you can B + shift back, you very rarely need to worry about mana, so yes, spam your shit. Vomit it everywhere.
10. I actually think both these ults are useful, though I personally prefer Blink Heal. Emerald Wind sucks less now because of the healing boost, and the push is a great disruptor. Pixie Dust yourself to get into a nice disruptive spot, Poly the healer, Wind the healer away from the tank, then either Phase or Dust out.
HOWEVER... Blink Heal is really fucking good. And it's not because of the healing. Blink Heal is very hard to interrupt as it goes off VERY fast; unless they stun you as you come in, it's not easy to do. The REAL power of this ability is to Blink forward onto, say, a Diablo or Butcher, Poly their target, hit them with the Manic Pixie + Soothing Mist combo, then blink back out before the enemy retaliates. Remember, you are also a mobile healing platform, so in addition to being an on-demand heal in itself, Blink Heal lets you re-position for Soothing Mist to do its job, and lets you play a hell of a lot more aggressively. I can and have used Pixie Dust to slip into the enemy backline, poly their healer, and then blink back out to my friends immediately. Remember, you can actually Blink Heal to NPC units as well! So even if you're caught on your own, you can Blink back to a mook in lane. With the upgrade, I have occasionally chain blinked back to core on short maps :P You can use Blink Heal to bait the enemy team into chasing you for an easy kill and lead them right into your Butcher or Kerrigan, and then blink out to safety somewhere else while the murder train happens.
... And I guess it heals too :V
11. Shield Dust. Shield Dust. Shield Dust. Unless somehow the enemy team has NO heroes that do ability damage (???) SHIELD. DUST. Shield Dust is basically on-demand Spell Shield (well, slightly less strong, but still) at a lower CD. You want to make Kael sad? SHIELD DUST. Ice Block is worthless because BW is ALL ABOUT mobility. Pixie Boost would be good if Shield Dust didn't exist.
16. You ALMOST ALWAYS want to take Critterize, unless your allied team is EXCEPTIONALLY stupid about focusing poly targets (and by now they've usually figured it out? usually?). With a Xul, Critterize + Bone Prison is HILARIOUS. If your team is super super dumb, Greater Polymorph gives you a slightly longer shutdown, which can be good if you're trying to shut out a Morales or something.
20. If you took Emerald Wind, take the upgrade. Better healz + additional pushbacks. The additional pushbacks can be great and very, very disruptive to the enemy team, especially if they've got a comp that is unforgiving of bad positioning.
Double Wyrmhole *effectively* gives you 4 charges of Blink Heal instead of 2, which, again, is super great if you're using it to juke, bait, and confuse. You start to zip around and bounce very quickly and confusingly, which protects you from dying and can, again, be used to annoy the enemy team.
If you took Blink Heal but are finding that nah, you really do need some extra healing, both Revitalizing Mist and Storm Shield can be good picks. But as you can see, I strongly prefer the utility of Double Wyrmhole.
If y'all ever want to see me play BW, hit me up when I'm on. TealDeer#1985.
Posts
I kinda feel like you missed the point of my post.
Let's say, yes, they do end up functioning the way you want them to. Okay, so Samuro hits Images, then a Valla uses Multishot and his Images pop like balloons.
What is even the point of Samuro having Images as an ability then? They're just gonna die to any and everything, why even does this ability exist now? They can't do anything. And then there goes a large chunk of his damage, Illusion Master becomes useless, Samuro only has two abilities now.
So again, wrong way to go about it. Images currently have 50% of your health, maybe that's too high? So lower that health percentage then, don't turn them into Healing Wards/Pufferfish because that makes the ability entirely useless. If 50% is too high, maybe 40% or 35% is better. These kinda things have levers and knobs that can be tuned up or down for a reason. We have a surgical knife to work with here, we don't need to take the hammer to them.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Granted, we had a 13 death leo who didn't understand the concept of engagement but we had been winning the entire game, and very convincingly, too.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
while samuro is really strong, i think people are overexaggerating the playstate. the game is not unplayable, nor is it unfun. this is not kael, this is not li ming, this is no where near tracer. this isn't even as bad as leoric release. yeah 2 out of 10 spots in QM are samuro, he is probably picked or banned in draft, but the games themselves are fine
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
Li Ming never even got to 60% iirc, and Tracer only barely did. Xul was higher than both of them.
edit: i'd add illidan and possibly medivh to the list of "unfun" sooner than samuro.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
Lvl 1 : mana quest or base 4% ap talent.
Lvl...umm I don't remember, the one with 3 living bomb talents : slow, cool down reduce or bigger explosion.
I've been going mana and bigger explosion
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Only when we're ahead in a team fight and you can see where he has to disengage and then maaaaaaybe you can chase. Even then it's only if you can catch up to him and punish him, which is very rare.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Those are typically my choices
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Same. All 3 LB talents are solid, but the explosion spreading is what the whole build is about. Give me more radius and make sure it happens.
Sometimes, though, I'll take the slow against hyper mobile teams. I still take the radius boost into Samuro, but the slow would have a lot of value, too.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Yeeeup.
He's broken, he's OP, he needs nerfs, no one's arguing that.
But he is nowhere near the level that Thrall/Li-Ming/Kael'thas were. "Most broken state any hero has ever been in" is, uh, not true.
Like I and other people have been saying, it's mostly the fact that he's extremely safe and survivable, Wind Walk provides one of the dumbest safest engages ever, and he basically goes unpunished all game.
His damage? Probably on the high side, yes. Not the primary factor as to why he's broken though. It's all in his Q and his E.
Samuro is annoying to play against but not necessarily... "unfun", I think? Like yeah it's not FUN to play against OP heroes, it never is. But it's not the same as say, playing vs a Nova that can pop you instantly. Or a god tier Chromie who's landing ALL her skillshots. THAT'S unfun. Samuro is too strong right now, he's annoying to play against, but I wouldn't say he's "unfun" to play against.
I think some of this is being blown out of proportion. We all know he's bonkers, but maybe not as much as people are making him out to be. Again, it's more in the sense that he can slip in, do his thing, and slip out completely unpunished.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
It's different from like Li-Ming, Thrall, etc.
i disagree because i don't think he invalidates heroes while simultaneously being super safe
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
He totally does.
Tried to do a few Nova games recently and just ... nope. After about lvl 10 I was deleted every fight and there was essentially nothing my team could do to save me. Attack out of Wind Walk, Q, Bladestorm, dead, E away.
I didn't miss it, I just disagree with it. Just because I don't instantly say you are right doesn't mean I am not reading it. C'mon.
The point of the illusions should be to do damage as long as they are ignored, like I called out in my post. They should not be there to increase his hp to 2-3x another heroes. He is an assassin, not a warrior. They are there to confuse and allow for escape, not to tank the enemy for you instead of a warrior.
He pops images, pops critical, does the initial damage. The other player drops an AoE and takes out the illusions.
Why does a single Samuro basic ability need to be counteracted by like 3 to 5 enemy abilities in order for you to consider it "balanced"? It is already free, doing damage, increasing his survivability, lowering the enemies chance to escape, don't give experience for killing, and potentially increasing his mobility.
He is majorly suffering from kitchen sink syndrome, and I don't think you are seeing it, because you like him so much.
Dude I have literally made multiple posts in this thread over the last few pages about how stupid and busted he is and how his Q/E have too much baseline power
I do like him, but I also recognize that he's broke as fuck. And as I said, I've made multiple posts talking about this.
Don't conflate my enjoyment of the character for not being able to recognize that he's broken.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I think you're underestimating the ability of good players to easily mitigate or straight up delete anything on the board that dies in one hit. There's always a shell game that goes on with cooldowns and abilities, and having something that basically takes "one hit" or "one ability" will never have that much of an impact. See: Nova's Decoy, Anub'arak's Beetles, or even Gazlowe's Turrets
If Mirror Images were like Nova's Decoys, which you seem to be arguing for they would be just as easily dismissed, and there wouldn't be much of a meaningful gameplay difference between the two - you'd basically just be popping it and hoping you get lucky.
The real issue has nothing to do with the HP or damage that the Mirror Images put out. If you can't tell them apart pretty quickly then you likely are at the same skill level where Nova deletes everyone in your QM games, too. At that point, there's nothing short of a glaring visual marker that will help you. And honestly, they could totally throw that in there, or make it so that there are no actual Mirror Images at all, and it would still be a ridiculously good skill. The problem is that Mirror Images not only serves to de-target you, it gives you an RNG teleport and actively debuffs a huge number of skills and abilities. It's basically a stronger version of self-Cleanse. You couple that with Wind Walk, particularly with Shukuchi, and he can escape almost any situation, no matter how stupid he was to get in there in the first place.
That's the real problem. I can easily identify the real Samuro in any given game. I can even pop him from stealth before he engages, and maybe I can by myself bring him down to half HP while all of that is happening. But once he's any real danger when the rest of my team shows up, he has the tools to escape almost an entire team wailing on him, and there's nothing they can do to finish the kill short of blowing all of their corresponding cooldowns. That's the asymmetry that is causing him to be such an issue. If he were able to actually be punished for ass-stupid play, it would be fine. But he can run around and do whatever the fuck he wants whenever the fuck he wants, and in the hands of a good player that basically makes him an unkillable god, because you won't be able to do basic stuff like merc your own camps.
This is why people are comparing him to Zeratul. You play him the same way, except that he can push a lane, 1v1 most of the hero roster, solo merc camps - and in the rare situations he won't win a fight, he can just run away. If they are going to insist on keeping his basic kit so strong, they need to do something drastic like dump his HP down to 80% of where it is now, otherwise he is impossible to punish. But that then causes the problem of turning him into a hit-and-run hero, which is literally what Zeratul does now. They want to have Samuro do sustained auto attack damage, and reconciling that with the innate strength of his kit is difficult to do.
His illusions should not be able to eat a dragon's breath or sandblast from Chromie, and still be standing to block another shot. Even if you can pop them with one ability, they would still be doing a lot of their damage, from when he first pulls them out with critical strike active and he gets that alpha strike.
wait, really? Life drain felt super anemic when I tried it, a Nazeebo was easily able to outdamage the healing I got from it. I can't imagine Samuro, as a melee assassin, can't match that against a rooted target.
This, life drain does pretty good versus steady damage. Spike damage can chunk it though.
Triple stealth
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
I'm naz.
Fuck this
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
This is basically one long Jurassic Park gag, but I am nonetheless amused.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Hints, builds, tips, advice for her?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
LiLi has a lot of build flexibility. She is at her best, however, against auto-attack heavy comps. Even if you spec her for full healing, she just doesn't have the throughput to match burst DPS heroes such as Li-Ming outside of her ult, Cups. But if the other team doesn't quite have enough burst or is built for sustained fights, she really shines as a second support who can put out a surprising amount of DPS and act as a damage/CC sponge for the team.
General Notes
1) Always Spam Q. LiLi has no burst healing. You cannot afford to not be healing someone whenever the cooldown is available. Many players go to the extent of just holding it down or macroing it so that it's held continuously, rather than trying to hit the button constantly. I prefer a little bit more control in case I can't quite get in the right range of the people I want to heal, but I think there's a good justification for just hitting it whenever it's on cooldown regardless, given LiLi's healing output.
2) Do not spam anything else. People often complain about LiLi being mana constrained, and I suspect that some of it has to do with them spamming all her shit all the time. Don't do it. A Blinding Wind cast in the middle of a lane with no chance of killing someone is a huge expenditure of mana for a useless amount of damage, and burns one of your most important damage mitigation abilities to boot. Cloud Serpent similarly has little value outside of an actual fight unless you've talented for it and you need to do something like clear minions very quickly.
3) There is an argument to be made that at Level 1, you would always take Conjurer's Pursuit, especially since at 20 you almost always get Kung Fu Hustle. I think it's a crutch talent, but if you consistently find yourself running out of mana then it's worth considering, especially since it scales very well late game and lets you spam everything all the time.
4) There is also an argument to be made that you always take Cleanse at Level 7. I find Cleanse to be almost useless at low or even middle levels of play. People don't expect it to be cast, and they don't necessarily have the skill to take advantage of it once they have it (e.g., you Cleanse someone caught in a Xul root and they just stand there and die anyway). But if you want to practice with it, it's basically a mandatory skill at higher levels of play (unless you're playing with a second support who also has Cleanse), so YMMV.
5) The biggest thing you can do as a LiLi player that will differentiate your skill is your positioning (sound familiar?). LiLi's only targeted skill is Cloud Serpent. Both her Q and her E are entirely dependent upon your positioning, the range of those skills, and the targets available within that range.
For Healing Brew, you will always heal the lowest HP hero within range. So if you have two teammates, a Valla who is in the back running away safely with 10 HP and a Tyrael who is in the front still taking damage at half HP, you want to heal the latter. The only way to do that is to make sure that Tyrael is the only hero in the circular range of your Q. Or that he is the hero with the lowest HP in that range. Otherwise, if you hit Q, Valla will be the one getting healed, and that doesn't help your team at all because she has to tap well or hearth regardless. There is a little marker that tells you who her heal target is, to help you with this.
Blinding Wind works similarly, except in reverse. For one, it requires at least one hero to be in range when it is cast. More importantly, though, it will always target the two closest enemy heroes to you. Read that last bit again. This is the key to being able to target your Blinding Wind on the appropriate enemy hero. If you are way out in Antarctica away from your team, and Greymane dives on your back line, but you're closer to the other team's Muradin and Thrall, then you will only blind Muradin and Thrall. Both are fine targets. But neither is the one you really want to be blinding.
Being able to keep track of your positioning for both your Healing Brew and Blinding Wind will be what turns you from a noob button-spammer LiLi to a god-tier LiLi who makes incredible saves even though it seems like she can't heal much of anything at all.
6) Always take Jugs. Water Dragon is a win-more ult, and even then only useful when you are going double support (in which case I would much rather have Jugs so that Malfurion can have Twilight Dream or Rehgar can have Bloodlust). Even if you never use it, taking Jugs forces the other team to respond in kind with abilities and ults, much like Mosh Pit. Like, should Tyrael probably always take Sanc? Probably. But if he's the only one with a consistent ranged stun on his team, he might be forced to take Judgment instead, and you might be able to bait him into diving too far and picking him off.
On that note, always save Jugs for when you've seen big stuns go out. Or if you know there is something out there, like a Muradin with Heavy Impact, keep that in mind and make sure you are out of range enough to juke it whenever it comes. (Again, this boils down to positioning.)
7) Shrink Ray is legit. Do not understimate it. You can throw it out right at the start of a fight against someone like a Li-Ming. Or you can wait for a dive hero to jump in and then dump it on them (Kerrigan gets straight up dumpstered by Shrink Ray, especially if she popped Maelstrom beforehand). It's basically an anti-Cleanse.
8) Kung Fu Hustle is in every build for a reason. Just like Shrink Ray, it is legit. This is the talent that turns LiLi from a pretty good support to a huge pain in the ass who can take a ton of damage and yet still spit out tons of healing and damage in return. It's one of the largest power spikes, even for a "Storm Talent", in the game. Just watch your mana once you hit 20, especially if you didn't take Conjurer's Pursuit.
Anyway, on to builds:
Serpent: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#oULJ
This is my go-to build. I look at whether or not the other team has a ton of burst damage or a ton of AA damage (think Raynor + Greymane). If they aren't stacked heavily in either direction, then I like to go with this build as a good way to "split the difference". People significantly underestimate both the damage and the healing that this build can do. All you have to do with this build is put the Serpent on a target that you know will take chip damage, such as the tank, and then spam Q. Once you get Serpent Sidekick at 16, it frees you up to play more aggressively in terms of soaking up damage for other people, because you will have a sustained source of healing on yourself. Once you get Kung Fu Hustle, you can do stupid stuff like put a Serpent on almost your entire time, which is a ridiculous amount of sustained damage and healing in a fight.
Blinds: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#seSP
This one is a little trickier. At Level 4 you actually have a decent choice between the two Blind talents. I prefer the one which hits more targets, because it synergizes with the damage upgrade at Level 1. However, there are situations where you might prefer Lingering Blind, particularly if you are against a Greymane or a Raynor (or lately, even a Valla). But you have to be very confident in your ability to blind your intended target if you take Lingering Blind. Again, once you get Kung Fu Hustle, you can be a little more liberal in using Blinding Wind because you will have it up far more often, and you will be doing a lot of damage every time it is cast.
Moar Heals: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/li-li#gRCP
This is probably the build you'll see the most use out of as a solo support LiLi, particularly if the other team has a lot of burst ability damage (such as double mage). You have some flexibility at Level 4. I really like Healing Ward, because even if it doesn't heal, I can use it prematurely to block a skill shot like a bullshit Li-Ming orb. Don't underestimate its healing and distraction value in the middle of a team fight, or even just to top off your team as you're doing something like taking the boss. But, Mass Vortex is arguably just as good, if not better, because you can shut down nearly all of a team's AA damage for several seconds, which adds up even for non-AA comps.
For Li-Li in generally the key is to run around alot, in and out of the front line healing people and blinding people and just being a fucking irritating unkillable healing nuisance. The enemy team should hate your fucking guts. Make sure to AA whenever you can too as the opportunity will come up more then you'd think and it adds enough damage to be meaningful. Generally you kinda wanna move forward and attack the enemy and then run away when they try to counter-engage you. Move near people who need heals, drop a serpent on anyone going deep and Blind when the enemy AAers move in to attack. Just fucking dance around and be a pest, it's loads of fun.
Anyway, my go to is roughly this:
http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/28-li-li?filter-ptr=1#cOAAAAeIfOXICPcAA
Conjurer's Pursuit cause this will enable the spam Q build with Kung Fu Hustle you will be running by the end.
Mass Vortex because it's better damage mitigation and makes it FAR more likely to hit the target you need it to.
Pitch Perfect similar to lvl 1 choice, it enables spamming Q like a motherfucker, especially after hitting 20.
13 and 16 are left open cause there's alot of choice available there. Though I will say my favourite way to go is Hindering Wind, Two for One. Unless they have stuns/roots, in which case Shake It Off. To elaborate.
Frankly basically everything at 13 is a great skill and it all depends what you want and need. Surging Winds buffs your heals too but I've kinda stopped liking it as much. Shrink Ray is as good as it's ever been. Elusive Feet is a really niche pick I'd say and only take it if you really need the block and even then ... eh. But my favourite is Hindering Winds. That slow works fantastic for getting away and for chasing people down. It is nasty as fuck.
At 16, the new Shake if Off is really good if the enemy has alot of stuns or roots they'll be landing on you. Two for One is good for spreading the healing around and the increased cooldown is offset well by your lvl 20 choice. I'd basically recommend it as the default. Safety Sprint is, uh, good enough if you don't want to take either of the other two above (mostly cause they don't have stuns/roots and you don't wanna increase the cooldown on your heal for whatever reason). Serpent Sidekick is still decent but since you aren't investing in serpents it's just kinda there.
20 is Kung Fu Hustle, which makes you a real beast at healing and really pulls the whole build together. Make sure to swing forward into the front line area to take some damage to turn your trait on so KFH is working.
With this build you will have practically infinite sustain and healing in the late game. You can support your team and harass the enemy constantly and are ridiculously hard to kill.
Finally got my stream up and did a few test co-op test games with the wife. Naturally, I didn't know I had to enable the save broadcast feature so it's all gone. Live and learn I guess.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I do have a few questions about brightwing. Early game I felt pretty useless, I just didn't have the healing power, any tips for early game team fights? Also should brightwing try to lane solo or back someone up? I moved around a lot with Z, but when nothing was going on I stuck on a lane with another player, but was unsure if I should've been trying to solo a lane, I went blink heal at 10, not sure if that the normal, but it felt pretty powerful, such a short cooldown.
You are good at split pushing, since you can easily jump across the map. You can wave clear, but I wouldn't focus on one lane unless you are specifically split pushing, you probably want to stay near someone who can take advantage of your constant free heal. Try to save your Z to jump up to turn a 1v1 into a 2v1, or to get to the team fight quickly.
Blink heal is the usual ult choice, since it gives you an on demand heal.
Personally, I never feel like I'm being impactful as BW when I play her. It always feels like I'm not doing as much healing as I should, and Poly has such a small window that teammates rarely take advantage of it, and the other team just shoves through anyway. Because she has an AOE passive heal, your teammates need to be aware of where she is and have to get back to her or stay in range if they need heals. This is where I think the biggest problem with playing BW lies - your teammates have to not be potatoes and be able to take care of themselves or at least be aware enough that they aren't going to magically get saved by a clutch long-range heal. Anyway, there are definitely people who play her and never seem to have those problems and can legit make amazing plays and do tons of hero damage without being punished for it.
She's a global hero, so a big part of what you should be doing with her is soaking lanes or doing other things that add value (such as getting merc camps) when typically you would be grouped with your team, and then teleporting in whenever a fight is about to break out.
Also, most people take Emerald Wind nowadays, unless you absolutely need the mobility with Blink Heal.
OKAY KIDS HOW 2 BRIGHTWING
source: brightwing is my main and the first hero I hit level 10 with. 113 games played, 55% win rate (which is actually p good from what I understand).
STOP WORRYING ABOUT THA HEALS. Healing is not the be all and end all game here. You want to play her more like a League of Legends support -- you are here for weird utility and to set up kills.
The Brightwing Playstyle is: knowing your positioning real gud so you don't die and so your healz work, and being an enormous little troll constantly going "hee hee" at your desk. You are here to troll the enemy and make them sad. You are here to juke, slide, get into seemingly dangerous spots and then suddenly not be there. You want to bait them and then poly + wind + phase the fuck out. Be a bastard. You are not a friendly healer. You are an asshole healer.
In my opinion, playing Brightwing as a straight healer is a waste of time. There are so many other characters who do the healing game better than her. Be Li-Li or Morales or Rehgar or something if you want a straight up healer. "But the aoe" NO. BW's real strength is in being a troll who sets up kills, who is a slippery fuck who baits people into attacking her and then leaves, and in general is a jerk. Who also happens to heal a bit.
ok #1, yer abilities:
Soothing Mist: we know about this and you know what? don't even worry about it. Just try to stay close to peeps who need healz. That's it.
Phase Shift: Brightwing's true bread and butter. She has no mount, but she can be anywhere her friends are. A N Y W H E R E. Much more importantly, backing for you has *almost no cost*. You don't need to healing fountain, you can get out of the fight, B, and IMMEDIATELY be back in the action at full mana and health -- for you, the only real cost is the time it takes to use B and for your health to return. THIS. IS. HUGE. If you can learn to manage this aspect you will literally never run out of mana. This is the true, greatest power of Phase Shift and the reason I *always* take Hyper Shift.
Arcane Flare: Good for wave clear, but becoming Actually Good at BW requires learning to nail heroes with the middle. The middle of the shot is actually quite beefy, it's just hard to land. I've found that some players assume that Flare is lame and that they don't need to worry about it. You can indeed secure kills with this if you learn how to time and lead your shots so heroes blunder into the sweet spot zone. You can also use it to zone and force players who DO know about the middle bit to move... preferably into your friend's skillshot. The thing is, your main deal as a support is making sure your pals can kill stuff moar bettar, and one of those aspects is being irritating and setting up kills for your friends.
Polymorph: AWWWW YISSSSSS THA GUD SHIT. Polymorph is, imho, the best hard shutdown in the game. THE BEST. Targets be slowed, silenced, and can't attack. It is THE way that you ruin Cho'Gall's day, bc Gall actually can't cast through it (if nothing's changed anyway). It will ruin Tracer if she gets hit by it, because she can't rewind while she's a sheep. If somebody ain't unstoppable, shut down their ults. Just. Just. SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING. I usually tell people at the beginning of a match "Please focus my poly targets." This doesn't always work, but when it does, it's great. If your team isn't focusing poly targets properly, use it instead to shut down channeled abilities and to take the heat off for a few seconds. Morales is a great target for this because of how her heal works -- even a tiny interrupt can give your guys a precious few seconds to burst a squishy target down.
Pixie Dust: Used to be better as it used to be two straight up blocks. Now it's just reduce the next 2 attacks by 75%.
My usual build is
1. Hyper Shift. Brightwing is about lane presence. Your best and greatest power is your ability to be where you need to be on demand. Again, a HUGE deal is being able to B and IMMEDIATELY be back to full health and mana. "But tha heals, they don't cost mana" yeah but your other utility shit DOES, and YOU CANT HEAL IF YOU ARE DEAD.
If you know for a fact that you need Peekaboo (enemy Nova, Zera, or Sam) then you absolutely MUST take this talent. I'll get to that soon.
On smaller maps, or with people you KNOW will reliably group up (eg, no Zera, Sam, or Nova), you can take Unfurling Spray. I usually find that Unfurling Spray isn't as nece
I haven't played in a while so I don't know the utility of the new Pixie Charm (Bribe), but it may be good on maps with a lotta mercs (Cursed Hollow, maybe?).
4. IF [Stealth Hero] THEN Peekaboo, ELSE Manic Pixie. With Hyper Shift and Mistified, you can use this ability A LOT. A whole fucking lot. With some games, I've been able to get it off more often than Tassadar's vision. I haven't played against Samuro yet so I am not sure how good it is against him since he has that dumb unblockable stealth garbage, but eh, anything that can help against that jerk, right? Extra fun is going B, then Phase Shifting back with Peekaboo. Hi stealth dude, I'm at full AND I can see you
Manic Pixie turns Pixie Dust into more of an on-demand single-target heal. You do want to keep an eye on Soothing Mist to make sure it procs right after you land Pixie Dust, but that combo can actually heal for quite a bit.
7. MISTIFIED IS BETTER THAN PHASE SHIELD ON A PHASE SHIFT + PEEKABOO BASED BUILD. I know people will disagree with me, but they're wrong. Mistified makes Soothing Mist proc more often. Soothing Mist proccing more often means Hyper Shift procs more often. Hyper Shift proccing more often means Phase Shift is up more, which means more HI STEALTH LOSERS
10. I actually think both these ults are useful, though I personally prefer Blink Heal. Emerald Wind sucks less now because of the healing boost, and the push is a great disruptor. Pixie Dust yourself to get into a nice disruptive spot, Poly the healer, Wind the healer away from the tank, then either Phase or Dust out.
HOWEVER... Blink Heal is really fucking good. And it's not because of the healing. Blink Heal is very hard to interrupt as it goes off VERY fast; unless they stun you as you come in, it's not easy to do. The REAL power of this ability is to Blink forward onto, say, a Diablo or Butcher, Poly their target, hit them with the Manic Pixie + Soothing Mist combo, then blink back out before the enemy retaliates. Remember, you are also a mobile healing platform, so in addition to being an on-demand heal in itself, Blink Heal lets you re-position for Soothing Mist to do its job, and lets you play a hell of a lot more aggressively. I can and have used Pixie Dust to slip into the enemy backline, poly their healer, and then blink back out to my friends immediately. Remember, you can actually Blink Heal to NPC units as well! So even if you're caught on your own, you can Blink back to a mook in lane. With the upgrade, I have occasionally chain blinked back to core on short maps :P You can use Blink Heal to bait the enemy team into chasing you for an easy kill and lead them right into your Butcher or Kerrigan, and then blink out to safety somewhere else while the murder train happens.
... And I guess it heals too :V
11. Shield Dust. Shield Dust. Shield Dust. Unless somehow the enemy team has NO heroes that do ability damage (???) SHIELD. DUST. Shield Dust is basically on-demand Spell Shield (well, slightly less strong, but still) at a lower CD. You want to make Kael sad? SHIELD DUST. Ice Block is worthless because BW is ALL ABOUT mobility. Pixie Boost would be good if Shield Dust didn't exist.
16. You ALMOST ALWAYS want to take Critterize, unless your allied team is EXCEPTIONALLY stupid about focusing poly targets (and by now they've usually figured it out? usually?). With a Xul, Critterize + Bone Prison is HILARIOUS. If your team is super super dumb, Greater Polymorph gives you a slightly longer shutdown, which can be good if you're trying to shut out a Morales or something.
20. If you took Emerald Wind, take the upgrade. Better healz + additional pushbacks. The additional pushbacks can be great and very, very disruptive to the enemy team, especially if they've got a comp that is unforgiving of bad positioning.
Double Wyrmhole *effectively* gives you 4 charges of Blink Heal instead of 2, which, again, is super great if you're using it to juke, bait, and confuse. You start to zip around and bounce very quickly and confusingly, which protects you from dying and can, again, be used to annoy the enemy team.
If you took Blink Heal but are finding that nah, you really do need some extra healing, both Revitalizing Mist and Storm Shield can be good picks. But as you can see, I strongly prefer the utility of Double Wyrmhole.
If y'all ever want to see me play BW, hit me up when I'm on. TealDeer#1985.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/