Godzilla and other, less important Kaiju

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  • EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    Still think Conrad should’ve grown up into Jonah. They’re both British intelligence!

    I would almost bet money that was a thing in a draft somewhere

    Maybe they're planning to put Hiddleston in old man makeup for Godzilla vs Kong

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Still think Conrad should’ve grown up into Jonah. They’re both British intelligence!

    I would almost bet money that was a thing in a draft somewhere

    Maybe they're planning to put Hiddleston in old man makeup for Godzilla vs Kong

    I'm reading more about the novelization, and it seems that a lot of the material pruned fom the original 3 hour cut dealt with the ecoterrorists. For example, Jonah has a tragic backstory, and while the ORCA was apparently unguarded in the film, in the novelization Millie Bobby Brown's character has to use a stun gun to take out some of the terrorists before she can get to it.

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  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    https://deadline.com/2019/06/warner-studio-toby-emmerich-peter-roth-dc-netflix-godzilla-vs-kong-kevin-tsujihara-1202629538/
    As far as franchise fatigue with Legendary’s Godzilla: King of the Monsters tanking, Emmerich said that next year’s monster movie Godzilla vs. Kong “will deliver for fans in the way they were looking for” in the latest Godzilla. “It might come out later in the year [than planned], so we can deliver an A+ movie” said Emmerich.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    March would have been a good open spot for an action movie, but if they need to delay it, hopefully they can find a good spot for it

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    'Secret Life of Pets 2' and 'Dark Phoenix' Both Struggle at the Box Office

    Godzilla didn't even make the top 3 this Friday. :(

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    4, technically.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    The Life Magazine special on Godzilla made it sound like Toho wasn't planning on anymore films in the Legendary series after Godzilla vs Kong anyway. They instead want to get back to making more of their own entries, preferably one every year or two.

    I am very curious why this movie underperformed. Maybe some people who didn't like the last one thought it would be just like Godzilla 2014.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Was really hoping we'd get a Destroy All Monsters/Final Wars inspired movie before the series ended.

    Give me Gigan, dammit!

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    The Life Magazine special on Godzilla made it sound like Toho wasn't planning on anymore films in the Legendary series after Godzilla vs Kong anyway. They instead want to get back to making more of their own entries, preferably one every year or two.

    I am very curious why this movie underperformed. Maybe some people who didn't like the last one thought it would be just like Godzilla 2014.

    It could also be that most people just don’t give a shit about Godzilla

    Crazy, I know, but honestly in my internet deep dives, it does feel like the fandom is smaller than most

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    The Life Magazine special on Godzilla made it sound like Toho wasn't planning on anymore films in the Legendary series after Godzilla vs Kong anyway. They instead want to get back to making more of their own entries, preferably one every year or two.

    I am very curious why this movie underperformed. Maybe some people who didn't like the last one thought it would be just like Godzilla 2014.

    My hot take theory that is very likely wrong regarding all of this
    The Ghidorah head at the end of the movie is not setting up MechaGhidorah but instead Destroyah, potentially being mutated by the Oxygen Destroyer. Kong and Godzilla fight him, Godzilla dies in the process. Leading to KING Kong being the new lead of the franchise going forward. If it goes forward of course.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    The Life Magazine special on Godzilla made it sound like Toho wasn't planning on anymore films in the Legendary series after Godzilla vs Kong anyway. They instead want to get back to making more of their own entries, preferably one every year or two.

    I am very curious why this movie underperformed. Maybe some people who didn't like the last one thought it would be just like Godzilla 2014.

    It could also be that most people just don’t give a shit about Godzilla

    Crazy, I know, but honestly in my internet deep dives, it does feel like the fandom is smaller than most

    Not having a good central human character played by a big name actor to focus on hurts a lot, I think. (I love Watanabe, but the movies sideline him) "Giant monsters beat each other up" isn't enough of a draw on it's own to keep people coming back to theaters; they've already seen it (or at least think they do.) Another reason they should have kept Cranston around.

    Imagine if he and Serizawa had become colleagues/friends in-between 2014 and KotM.
    Especially in regards to Serizawa's sacrifice in KotM.

    Actually, shit, you know what should have happened in 2014? Joe Brody lives but Ford dies during the battle with Godzilla at the end. (From the MUTO but Joe blames Godzilla and titans in general), and he's the one who figures out the bioacoustic stuff based on his research into the MUTO communication patterns, and is the one who has to overcome his hatred of the titans in KotM to help save the day. (Instead of her son, Dr. Russel would have lost her husband during the San Francisco attack)

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Was really hoping we'd get a Destroy All Monsters/Final Wars inspired movie before the series ended.

    Give me Gigan, dammit!

    I mean, excluding gigan, this movie basically is destroy all monsters.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I would be more upset about KotM's lack of runaway success if Godzilla v. Kong wasn't already guaranteed to be happening and actively shooting

    I am fine with getting 3 of these, if they end up not making more I can live with that

    The Life Magazine special on Godzilla made it sound like Toho wasn't planning on anymore films in the Legendary series after Godzilla vs Kong anyway. They instead want to get back to making more of their own entries, preferably one every year or two.

    I am very curious why this movie underperformed. Maybe some people who didn't like the last one thought it would be just like Godzilla 2014.

    It could also be that most people just don’t give a shit about Godzilla

    Crazy, I know, but honestly in my internet deep dives, it does feel like the fandom is smaller than most

    Possibly. The first movie did well, though, even with a much lower audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.

    What other movies came out around Godzilla 2014's release? This one had a lot to compete with.

    Alternatively, maybe a lot of people were lured in by promises of Bryan Cranston.

    EDIT: Thankfully the movie is doing better overseas.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The other movie had a much better ad campaign.

    The 2001 music to the drop scene was fuckin chilling.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Wait what

    King of the Monsters has the best trailers I have seen in a hot minute

    If anything the ad campaign was better made than the movie

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    I've also seen claims that, of the people who saw the movie, 75% were male and 65% were over 25 years old. Beyond that, most of the movies coming out now in general aren't doing great for some reason.

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I liked this film a lot

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    The reviews for 2014 Godzilla were very good and it had been a long time since anything like it had come out. The reviews for King of the Monsters were MUCH more mixed (including word of mouth, as you can see from people here that did not like it) and there's been a couple of these now (Godzilla, Kong Skull Island, Pacific Rim Uprising) so people who were curious in 2014 might have said "Nah, I'm good."

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    It’s a packed summer and Godzilla is a lot more niche than people probably care to admit. Toss in that the movie is also pitched in a way that even only a portion of the niche audience will enjoy it? None of it’s too shocking to me.

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  • GR_ZombieGR_Zombie Krillin It Registered User regular
    Godzilla is still mostly just a word for people to yell out in their best racist voice in the US

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    According to Wikipedia this film cost $170–200 million to make, and has, so far as reported, made $212.1 million. I have no idea how much more it could make, but at the very least its already made 12.1 million in profit. That doesn't seem awful?

    I have no idea if its enough, but it seems ok.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    The usual assumption is that a film needs to make 2x it's budget to be considered a success.

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Well, whats the margin of error if the movie has a giant nuclear lizard?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    So a few things..

    1. The movie studios isn't taking in 100% of that money; some of it (a precious little) goes to the theaters themselves.
    2. If I understand things correctly, it's an even bigger cut in overseas markets
    3. Marketing budges are very expensive and can run in the hundreds of millions of dollars, depending on the movie.
    4. The typical Hollywood thinking is "Why spend money on something that can be slightly or moderately successful, when we can spend the same money on something that will be ludicrously successful" regardless of if it's actually feasible that they'll produce such a movie.

    Note that this is different from "Hollywood Accounting" where they use bullshit legal and financial maneuvering to ensure that, no matter how successful, movies are never "profitable" and thus allowing studios to take bigass tax breaks.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Was really hoping we'd get a Destroy All Monsters/Final Wars inspired movie before the series ended.

    Give me Gigan, dammit!

    I mean, excluding gigan, this movie basically is destroy all monsters.

    Well, I was more talking about the alien invasion aspect than the "all monsters show up" aspect.

    If I was doing it, I'd have it be "Xileans show up to conquer Earth via their preferred weapon: Space Kaiju, so Earth has to try and get the terrestial titans to defend them.

    Give them an excuse to do weird creatures like Gigan or Hedorah.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    I have seen King of the Monsters

    It is deeply flawed on a script level, and it has a bunch of superfluous characters added and returning characters sidelined in favor of a central family that I felt very little for, and it still wastes its two or three best actors, and the writing is distinctly awkward to the point that I feel I can see the layers of different revisions to the script, and the pacing is wonky, and some of the lore/mythology they attempt to build into the world doesn’t feel right, and there’s some thoughts I have about how the film feels confused thematically, and if we really wanna get down to it the movie is very Showa-era dumb

    But yo

    yo

    This movie fuckin’ rules

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Yeah movies generally need to make 2x their budget to be successful since marketing is really expensive. My theory is they put as much fan service in this movie as they could, as they knew Godzilla v Kong was already being made.

    Why 2014 did better is probably a combo of a lot of things: Brian Cranston was a huge draw, with BB just ending; we hadn't had a Godzilla movie in 16 years; a lot less competition (Guardians of the Galaxy 1 was August and Captain America: The Winter Soldier didn't have the staying power of Avengers End Game). And while there was less monster time, the script was more coherent.

    There's a part of me that wonders if we as an audience are finally getting tired of spectacle without plot. I was constantly shocked at how well the Transformers movies did at the box office. Now with a decade of MCU movies that have spectacle with good characters and plots, maybe we've raised the bar a bit. If so, that would explain the last 3 weeks with Godzilla and X-men tanking.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    Yeah movies generally need to make 2x their budget to be successful since marketing is really expensive. My theory is they put as much fan service in this movie as they could, as they knew Godzilla v Kong was already being made.

    Why 2014 did better is probably a combo of a lot of things: Brian Cranston was a huge draw, with BB just ending; we hadn't had a Godzilla movie in 16 years; a lot less competition (Guardians of the Galaxy 1 was August and Captain America: The Winter Soldier didn't have the staying power of Avengers End Game). And while there was less monster time, the script was more coherent.

    There's a part of me that wonders if we as an audience are finally getting tired of spectacle without plot. I was constantly shocked at how well the Transformers movies did at the box office. Now with a decade of MCU movies that have spectacle with good characters and plots, maybe we've raised the bar a bit. If so, that would explain the last 3 weeks with Godzilla and X-men tanking.

    I think you're on the money with a lot of these observations. It's probably a thousand cuts situation, with a lot of things having an effect like Pacific Rim's bad sequel, Godzilla's more niche appeal, and the movie industry just kind of doing bad right now

    I'm glad it's doing better than X-Men at least, cuz woof

    And speaking of superheroes there are at least three different moments where Godzilla gets a big moment that treats him like Superman or Goku in KOTM and boy it's a cheap pop but I loved it every single time

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I think I'm the only person who like Pacific Rim 2. Like the first is way the fuck better for sure. But 2 was fine.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    I think I'm the only person who like Pacific Rim 2. Like the first is way the fuck better for sure. But 2 was fine.

    I was all the way on board with the initial scene, and then past that it started to lose momentum, and then when Mako exited the film they had completely lost me

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  • EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    The Jaeger designs being as samey as they were kind of lost me on Pacific Rim 2

    Also it kind of seemed like they lost the cool scale and physicality of the first one

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Not having a good central human character played by a big name actor to focus on hurts a lot, I think. (I love Watanabe, but the movies sideline him) "Giant monsters beat each other up" isn't enough of a draw on it's own to keep people coming back to theaters; they've already seen it (or at least think they do.) Another reason they should have kept Cranston around.

    Imagine if he and Serizawa had become colleagues/friends in-between 2014 and KotM.
    Especially in regards to Serizawa's sacrifice in KotM.

    Actually, shit, you know what should have happened in 2014? Joe Brody lives but Ford dies during the battle with Godzilla at the end. (From the MUTO but Joe blames Godzilla and titans in general), and he's the one who figures out the bioacoustic stuff based on his research into the MUTO communication patterns, and is the one who has to overcome his hatred of the titans in KotM to help save the day. (Instead of her son, Dr. Russel would have lost her husband during the San Francisco attack)

    Just saw the movie, and the worst part was that blandy mcblanderface Mark. I spent the whole movie wishing the 2014 movie hadn't killed Cranston's character, because we could've had him and all the other good actors metaphorically chewing the scenery when the kaiju weren't literally chewing the scenery. Instead, we got some guy that I kept thinking as "bargain bin Baldwin-brother" in my head who was supposed to be the protagonist and carry the movie being always right while having no charisma or force of personality. He's surrounded by superior actors all around (teenage Millie Bobby Brown put more strong emotion into a single glower than I think he managed the entire movie, much less all the rest of them) all and the camera has to focus on his stupid face. It's like, yeah nobody cared about bland Army dude, so we can't have him in the next movie, but we have to stick some bland white guy in as a replacement, because where would these movies be without a bland white guy being the focus?

    That all being said, I love how they just embraced all the insane wackiness of the setting and played it totally straight.
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  • Moth 13Moth 13 Registered User regular
    Wait wait wait, was bland protagonist guy not from the first movie? I just kind of assumed he was the bland guy from the first one.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Nope! Totally different bland protagonist guy.

    We could've had Bryan Cranston the whole time. Even more messed up and conflicted because these monster battles killed his wife AND son, and with the acting chops to actually pull it off.

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  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    I'm guessing causal movie goers were expecting something like this

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I think the movie's drop-off probably has a lot to do with the way people are talking about it: whereas a lot of diehards were disappointed in 2014 and average moviegoers found it pretty all right, the reverse has kind of happened here, where diehards are (mostly; I can admit I'm on the outside) way into it and the mean moviegoer tends towards thinking it's pretty bad

    There's also a lot of action movie fatigue this summer, and KOTM doesn't try to frame itself as anything except an action movie

    I didn't expect it to do great in the wake of Endgame, or being framed as a giant monster action flick, more than a year ago—but I have to admit that I'm pretty surprised that domestic box office estimates are expecting it to finish with half the gross of the 2014 flick

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Taken from the D&D movies thread.
    Our amazing production designer on Kong: Skull Island Stefan Dechant hid the actual camera that was used in the 1933 film in one of the scenes.

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    alright i watched the movie
    i thought that would be a lot better than it was? i thought it was conspicuously worse than both the first one and skull island. ghidorah looked silly and plastic, everything was the same colour, all the cgi was dark and foggy and bland and there was way more footage of people standing around super cool elite alpha bravo command bases than there was of monsters destroying cities. ghidorah blows up washington and we see like two seconds of it. what's that about

    rodan was good and godzilla's atlantis base was good. mothra made a lot of good sounds. also i liked that charles dance's plan to save the world worked perfectly, aside from a minor hitch with ghidorah that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance, and that it's clear he is one of the greatest heroes in human history

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    alright i watched the movie
    i thought that would be a lot better than it was? i thought it was conspicuously worse than both the first one and skull island. ghidorah looked silly and plastic, everything was the same colour, all the cgi was dark and foggy and bland and there was way more footage of people standing around super cool elite alpha bravo command bases than there was of monsters destroying cities. ghidorah blows up washington and we see like two seconds of it. what's that about

    rodan was good and godzilla's atlantis base was good. mothra made a lot of good sounds. also i liked that charles dance's plan to save the world worked perfectly, aside from a minor hitch with ghidorah that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance, and that it's clear he is one of the greatest heroes in human history

    A lot of the critics agree with you, but honestly I thought it looked fine and didn’t mind most of the human scenes. I will say I get your point about how briefly Washington, DC was featured (although my primary thought was “why’d he go there?”).

    Also, I’m pretty sure the director thinks Ghidorah is the only truly evil character in the movie, based on things he’s said in interviews and in the art book. Charles Dance’s character is more outright misanthropic, and Vera Farmiga’s character would be completely onboard if not for her daughter’s disapproval, but both are working for the greater good of the planet not being destroyed by environmental collapse.

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