Just some more of my thoughts from a first play through perspective.
I Just finished Thessia, that has to be one of the most frustrating things I have ever experienced in a video game. The impotent rage I was feeling as I couldn't do anything to Kai Leng. I mean the goose couldn't even hurt me, he couldn't dodge my shotgun blast, yet his plot armor was impenetrable. Argh!
I literally yelled 1 v 1 me bro at my monitor!
I had to call it for the night after that mission. After brokering a peace treaty with the Geth and Quarians and being on a bit of a feel good high they throw that mission at you. When I kill Kai Leng it needs to be as simple as killing Udina. I think that's the only way it should go (I know it won't).
This game has been such an emotional roller coaster for me. For all the flack that Bioware gets for writing or ham fisted scenes or inconsistency they do a really good job of getting you invested in the story.
I think I understand my wife a little better after playing through Mass Effect 3 now. When we watched Breaking Bad she was always emotionally drained afterwards and worried about the characters; I never understood. This game is the first time I've ever had these emotions from a piece of fiction, it's messing me up!
Awesome game!
When is the best time to play the Citadel DLC? I have the Priority: Horizon mission still to do. I've read some people say to do it after the main story is complete or is it meant to be a last hurrah before the final battle?
El Mucho on
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+8
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
There are several schools of thought.
One is to play it after the ending (no matter what, if you're emotionally invested in the universe and characters, you will be emotionally drained after the ending). Given that I played it on a third playthrough, I like that option.
Play it right before the ending. I don't like this option because you will go from goofy fun to Grimdark in remarkable speed, and that whiplash would make things even more draining I'd imagine.
Play it once you've recruited and contacted everyone (unfortunately, this ends up being basically right before the ending).
Play it after the elevator scene in the ending. You'll know it when you see it. (this one by all the people that hate hate HATE even the revised ending)
IMO, save it for after you're done with the game. It's a delightful sendoff to the fans, but so goofily funny that it doesn't fit well in emotional content with the bulk of the game.
So I have a system that is flashing as if to tell me there is a mission there and when I go to the system there is a planet with a green highlighted name the same as if it would have a mission. However, there is nothing there, I can't land or scan the planet. It's in a system just north west of the Citadel. Is this a bug?
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0
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
So I have a system that is flashing as if to tell me there is a mission there and when I go to the system there is a planet with a green highlighted name the same as if it would have a mission. However, there is nothing there, I can't land or scan the planet. It's in a system just north west of the Citadel. Is this a bug?
yeah, this happened to me too. Nothing there, don't worry about it!
On a side note does the armor ever get good? I've been using the Cerberus Apex armor since I could afford to buy it and none of the combo pieces have even come close to be being as good. I prefer the look of the N7 armor but can't give up the power recharge and damage bonus.
I've never switched out of my Blood Dragon armor. +30% powers damage, +20% shields, +10% power recharge speed. Also, it looks baller as hell.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I know I have been playing SWTOR for too long because I saw "HK armor" and immediately thought "FOR FUCK'S SAKE ENOUGH WITH THE HK-47/51/55 GEAR!"
+5
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Alternatively, I've been sort-of spectating a WH40k Hello Kitty project with detached interest and I had a mental image of Shepard in pastel pinks and whites
No lie or exaggeration, when starting up the final mission in ME2 and *everyone knows what happens here or at least should* right at the beginning of that cutscene, I literally recoiled back and reflexively yelled "JOKER!!"
Suffice to say I was immersed as fuck at that point.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Just some more of my thoughts from a first play through perspective.
I Just finished Thessia, that has to be one of the most frustrating things I have ever experienced in a video game. The impotent rage I was feeling as I couldn't do anything to Kai Leng. I mean the goose couldn't even hurt me, he couldn't dodge my shotgun blast, yet his plot armor was impenetrable. Argh!
I literally yelled 1 v 1 me bro at my monitor!
I had to call it for the night after that mission. After brokering a peace treaty with the Geth and Quarians and being on a bit of a feel good high they throw that mission at you. When I kill Kai Leng it needs to be as simple as killing Udina. I think that's the only way it should go (I know it won't).
This game has been such an emotional roller coaster for me. For all the flack that Bioware gets for writing or ham fisted scenes or inconsistency they do a really good job of getting you invested in the story.
I think I understand my wife a little better after playing through Mass Effect 3 now. When we watched Breaking Bad she was always emotionally drained afterwards and worried about the characters; I never understood. This game is the first time I've ever had these emotions from a piece of fiction, it's messing me up!
Awesome game!
When is the best time to play the Citadel DLC? I have the Priority: Horizon mission still to do. I've read some people say to do it after the main story is complete or is it meant to be a last hurrah before the final battle?
Make sure Shepard checks their e-mail!
Also
The last time you see Kai Leng is very satisfying.
Best time for Citadel is after you've beaten the base game and are "done" with the single player.
I finished up to the counter attack on Earth. I will likely finish the rest of the game tonight.
Horizon and Cerberus base
So I wasn't able to save Miranda which was a disappointment, I wasn't a big fan of her character in the ME2 so her death didn't hit me same the way Mordin or Legion did; their sacrifices carried so much more weight and meaning. I cried when Mordin died, that was a brilliant moment in Mass Effect. I was choked when Legion sacrificed himself, especially after the reveal of just how shitty the Quarians were. Just not much impact when Miranda died. The lines between Shepard and Miranda as she died felt really clumsy too.
The whole Miranda arc seemed a bit odd to me, she gives you vague reasons and no information, then asks for alliance assets to help her, but she can't tell you why. It made no sense. Tell me what's up and I'll biotic charge everything until your sister is safe. Oh well, I'll likely do a trilogy run before Andromeda and try and keep her alive.
Cerberus base was satisfying, I was really hoping I could kill the Illusive man too.However, I did get my 1 v 1 and as I suspected Kai Leng was a chump. I really think that fight would have been even more satisfying as a simple quick time event; he charges you, you side step and disarm him then stab him with his own sword. Showing him in the simplest way, that no you aren't the new Shepard.
If I don't get to kill the Illusive man on the Citadel I will be hugely disappointed.
I really wish the final battle had allowed me to assign non used squad mates to tasks, it really feels like a missed opportunity. Are they just sitting on Normandy waiting for me to come back? It's sort of silly that they couldn't give you a short scene before you jump to Sol in which you give Garrus, James etc. a mission or have them be a landing team to knock out the anti air guns. Maybe something is coming that I am unaware of; I only just started the Earth attack.
Hackett is a legend. He really annoyed me in the other games but I've grown to really like him through this game.
This has been an amazing emotional ride. I had goosebumps when Hackett came aboard the Normandy, I was a bag of nerves telling Hackett to order the attack and watching the fleet come through the relay. And the exploration and descriptions of all the planets you scan adds an extra layer of sadness to this whole thing.
I'm not at all ready for this story to be over and I am so scared about the ending. God damn this game, Shepard can't die! I can't leave my love interest alone, the pain would be crippling for them after so much loss already!
Rambling again, sorry.
Edit: I beat the game tonight, I think I'm going to need some time to deconstruct that.
I went with the Synthesis ending. It was the least shitty ending out of three completely shitty options. So disappointed that was what this came down to.
Everything right up until the intelligence was great. The walk through the ruins talking to each squad member was fantastic, had me in tears again. The final push defending the missiles was an intense fight and felt desperate. The run set piece to the elevator just fantastic. Helping an injured Liara and Garrus back onto the Normandy and the last goodbye, sitting with Anderson as he died just perfect. It was such a good conclusion up until the intelligence.
But that conversation with the intelligence came out of left field. My god, I sat dumbfounded for long enough to get a game over screen and had to reload. None made any sense, destruction basically shits all over everything you've done up until that point. I suppose it could make sense in a Renegade play through but how I'd been playing I just couldn't do it. I'd spent the entire game helping EDI find an identity, fixed the Geth/Quarian conflict, uniting the galaxy, it was just an impossible choice for me.
Control was never on the table because if Shepard was going to sacrifice himself it wasn't going to be for ultimate power. So that left me with Synthesis, which while providing the happiest ending left me feeling like shit anyway because all the friendships and character development were just thrown out the window. If the goal of the developers was to leave everyone feeling shitty I think they succeeded immensely.
It's almost like in an effort to definitively close the setting they forgot what the rest of the game had been about. They needed to move on so they came up with ideas that would close the Milky way for good. Ultimately, I think what I needed was a happily ever after for Shepard, even if it would have been massively cliched, make it hard to do but come on! I think closing the setting and respecting the players could have been achieved.
I can't even fathom how people must have felt without the extended cut. I at least got to see my crew take off from that garden world at the very end. Post Anderson death felt rushed and ill conceived.
It was a really great game with a great story and frustrating ending that ultimately left me feeling very sad. Almost entirely because I don't get to see Shepard in a post reaper galaxy with his love interest or friends.
I also have no idea what that last little sequence added with the Stargazer and the child. Was that supposed to be like way in the future? Why were they talking like space travel was some far fetched thing? Maybe I miss understood, I was in a little bit of shock.
There's... not at a lot to understand. I think it was an attempt to show that Shepard lives on as a myth, to draw parallels to the fact that over three games and countless hours Shepard will live on in our memories even if their game is over.
It's an interesting experiment, but as you guessed it didn't exactly resonate with a lot of people. I personally liked the... melancholy of it, I guess I'd say.
Ultimately, I think what I needed was a happily ever after for Shepard, even if it would have been massively cliched, make it hard to do but come on! I think closing the setting and respecting the players could have been achieved....It was a really great game with a great story and frustrating ending that ultimately left me feeling very sad. Almost entirely because I don't get to see Shepard in a post reaper galaxy with his love interest or friends.
Can a great story have a sad ending? Can a great game have a sad ending? The execution might have been not great (many on this board would say terrible), but taken in the broadest strokes the ending makes sense to me, and is in keeping with the general arc of ME3.
The hero arrives ME1 as a generic badass and exits genuine hero with a growing crew of loyal fellow badasses. ME2 sees not even death stopping the hero, and collecting an even larger group of people around them. Nothing can stop the hero! Except within the first 5 minutes of ME3, turns out, yes, there are forces that can stop the hero. And they'll need to muster every bit of willpower, gather every ally, and spit them in the face of the forces that oppose them.
The ending shows the hero and their army storming the gates of hell. All those mustered bits of willpower, all those allies, everything has to be committed, because there's no other way to get where they need to go. Bit by bit all of those allies are killed or driven off, until it's just the hero shambling toward the objective, forcing a wrecked and dying body into that teleporter because the job's not done.
The hero, along with a long-time ally finally make it to the control room. The long time ally dies. The hero is plainly bleeding out. Pretend the Star Child sequence was something unknown but better. Wouldn't it be entirely in keeping with the thrust of ME3 for the hero to die right then and there? For most of the crew to be dead, the galaxy in ruins? Even if it was a completely bloodless victory, the galaxy would still be in ruins; the Reapers made it to every world and started their harvest, wrecking untold trillions of lives. The loss of infrastructure alone would likely kill still more trillions as integrated systems, run with little margin, are smashed.
I think a happy ending is a betrayal under those circumstances. The happiest we can hope for is bittersweet: this victory cost us heavily, but the council races still survive, and the Reapers have been stopped.
I can't even fathom how people must have felt without the extended cut. I at least got to see my crew take off from that garden world at the very end. The whole post Anderson death felt rushed and ill conceived.
Likely because it was rushed; they had to bring VAs back to redo lines late in the process.
I also have no idea what that last little sequence added with the Stargazer and the child. Was that supposed to be like way in the future? Why were they talking like space travel was some far fetched thing? Maybe I miss understood, I was in a little bit of shock.
jdarksun already said the what, to that I'd add originally it was voiced by Buzz Aldrin. Unfortunately he was terrible as a VA, but it was a neat idea with poor execution.
I went with the Synthesis ending. It was the least shitty ending out of three completely shitty options. So disappointed that was what this came down to.
Everything right up until the intelligence was great. The walk through the ruins talking to each squad member was fantastic, had me in tears again. The final push defending the missiles was an intense fight and felt desperate. The run set piece to the elevator just fantastic. Helping an injured Liara and Garrus back onto the Normandy and the last goodbye, sitting with Anderson as he died just perfect. It was such a good conclusion up until the intelligence.
But that conversation with the intelligence came out of left field. My god, I sat dumbfounded for long enough to get a game over screen and had to reload. None made any sense, destruction basically shits all over everything you've done up until that point. I suppose it could make sense in a Renegade play through but how I'd been playing I just couldn't do it. I'd spent the entire game helping EDI find an identity, fixed the Geth/Quarian conflict, uniting the galaxy, it was just an impossible choice for me.
Control was never on the table because if Shepard was going to sacrifice himself it wasn't going to be for ultimate power. So that left me with Synthesis, which while providing the happiest ending left me feeling like shit anyway because all the friendships and character development were just thrown out the window. If the goal of the developers was to leave everyone feeling shitty I think they succeeded immensely.
It's almost like in an effort to definitively close the setting they forgot what the rest of the game had been about. They needed to move on so they came up with ideas that would close the Milky way for good. Ultimately, I think what I needed was a happily ever after for Shepard, even if it would have been massively cliched, make it hard to do but come on! I think closing the setting and respecting the players could have been achieved.
I can't even fathom how people must have felt without the extended cut. I at least got to see my crew take off from that garden world at the very end. Post Anderson death felt rushed and ill conceived.
It was a really great game with a great story and frustrating ending that ultimately left me feeling very sad. Almost entirely because I don't get to see Shepard in a post reaper galaxy with his love interest or friends.
I also have no idea what that last little sequence added with the Stargazer and the child. Was that supposed to be like way in the future? Why were they talking like space travel was some far fetched thing? Maybe I miss understood, I was in a little bit of shock.
You reach for everything, you end up with nothing.
Synthesis in a nutshell.
+8
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I remember we had some jokes about the stargazer since it was a scene of someone telling the story we just played to a child.
"And then, my sweet, Shepard started making hot love to her in the engine room where pretty much everyone could see!"
The hero arrives ME1 as a generic badass and exits genuine hero with a growing crew of loyal fellow badasses. ME2 sees not even death stopping the hero, and collecting an even larger group of people around them. Nothing can stop the hero! Except within the first 5 minutes of ME3, turns out, yes, there are forces that can stop the hero. And they'll need to muster every bit of willpower, gather every ally, and spit them in the face of the forces that oppose them.
The ending shows the hero and their army storming the gates of hell. All those mustered bits of willpower, all those allies, everything has to be committed, because there's no other way to get where they need to go. Bit by bit all of those allies are killed or driven off, until it's just the hero shambling toward the objective, forcing a wrecked and dying body into that teleporter because the job's not done.
The hero, along with a long-time ally finally make it to the control room. The long time ally dies. The hero is plainly bleeding out. Pretend the Star Child sequence was something unknown but better. Wouldn't it be entirely in keeping with the thrust of ME3 for the hero to die right then and there? For most of the crew to be dead, the galaxy in ruins? Even if it was a completely bloodless victory, the galaxy would still be in ruins; the Reapers made it to every world and started their harvest, wrecking untold trillions of lives. The loss of infrastructure alone would likely kill still more trillions as integrated systems, run with little margin, are smashed.
I think a happy ending is a betrayal under those circumstances. The happiest we can hope for is bittersweet: this victory cost us heavily, but the council races still survive, and the Reapers have been stopped.
Of course you are correct. But that doesn't change what I badly wanted to happen. All considered, I do believe the ending I chose fits but it is definitely not want I needed.
I just got so invested in the game that any thing other than the happiest of happy endings was crushing.
To be clear, when I say shitty options I am mostly considering from Shepard's perspective.
Thanks for reading and responding to my rambling.
El Mucho on
BNet: ElMucho#1392
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0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I just got so invested in the game that any thing other than the happiest of happy endings was crushing.
To be clear, when I say shitty options I am mostly considering from Shepard's perspective.
Thanks for reading and responding to my rambling.
On the one hand, that Bioware can produce a game that affecting is remarkable, considering how little most games manage to engage us emotionally. Excite us or amaze us? Sure. But engage us where we are emotionally invested in the characters and the universe? Rare indeed. And for us to be so engaged with the characters and universe we get upset at the game and game-makers when things don't work out as we had deeply desired--it's likely a unicorn.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
I'm sorry the ending didn't do it for you, but you're in good company with the folks that didn't like it. Your response is fairly typical, at least on this board. Actually, no. You're much more reasoned about it than most have been.
Now that you've got the ending out of the way, go play Citadel. It's a great way to end the series off, and should wash that sour taste out of your mouth. It's the happy ending you've asked for. Make sure you wander around and listen to all the ambient conversations too, and talk to all your companions in your apartment after the party is over (you'll get invites).
On the one hand, that Bioware can produce a game that affecting is remarkable, considering how little most games manage to engage us emotionally. Excite us or amaze us? Sure. But engage us where we are emotionally invested in the characters and the universe? Rare indeed. And for us to be so engaged with the characters and universe we get upset at the game and game-makers when things don't work out as we had deeply desired--it's likely a unicorn.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
I'm sorry the ending didn't do it for you, but you're in good company with the folks that didn't like it. Your response is fairly typical, at least on this board. Actually, no. You're much more reasoned about it than most have been.
Now that you've got the ending out of the way, go play Citadel. It's a great way to end the series off, and should wash that sour taste out of your mouth. It's the happy ending you've asked for. Make sure you wander around and listen to all the ambient conversations too, and talk to all your companions in your apartment after the party is over (you'll get invites).
The fact that Bioware was able to make me feel this invested is a marvel of game design and story telling. The only thing that I can compare it to is the feeling I had upon finishing the Lord of the Rings and watching the movie Interstellar. Mass Effect hit me harder of course because it was me actively participating in the story and friendship building.
I think once I've had some time I'll reach a point in which I can consider the ending good. I'm at least partly glad I waited so long, I would have literally died without the extended cut.
I'll probably wait a little while to play Citadel. Maybe give it a week or two Mass Effect has literally been all I can think about since I started playing.
I fear for Andromeda as well. At this point in time I don't know if I will be able to get as invested in the characters or story because it will be held against this trilogy. I imagine my shields will be up as well to protect myself from the heartache this game has caused.
BNet: ElMucho#1392
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0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
Edit: as proof that I'm not just bullshiting about actually appreciating bittersweet endings, Central Station is one of my favorite films. And it was, as I recall, pretty well received at the time. The ending of that film is one that I can recall in detail even though it's been years since I've seen it. I can't say the same about many films I've seen recently.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
I think if there had been no choice in the matter and the only ending had been the refuse ending but I was able to die next to my love interest I would have sobbed but I think I could have loved that ending. Then you would see the recording by Liara and have hope that the next cycle would be stopped.
El Mucho on
BNet: ElMucho#1392
Origin: theRealElMucho
+3
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
That might be true for you, but look at El Mucho's response. He's self aware enough to recognize the kind of ending he was deeply wanting, no matter how poor the execution of the actual ending was.
The fact that Bioware was able to make me feel this invested is a marvel of game design and story telling. The only thing that I can compare it to is the feeling I had upon finishing the Lord of the Rings and watching the movie Interstellar. Mass Effect hit me harder of course because it was me actively participating in the story and friendship building.
I feel the same way. There's a reason we're still talking about this game years after it's been released. Too bad about Interstellar's ending...
I think once I've had some time I'll reach a point in which I can consider the ending good. I'm at least partly glad I waited so long, I would have literally died without the extended cut.
With the extended cut most people think it's a tolerable ending now, where previously it was intolerable. I'm glad you didn't have to go through the original, because the rage was famous.
I'll probably wait a little while to play Citadel. Maybe give it a week or two Mass Effect has literally been all I can think about since I started playing.
Understandable. Even if the ending was properly executed, it would still be emotionally draining. Just remember to play Citadel while things are still fresh. If you don't have a big stupid grin on your face for 90% of it, I don't know what to say.
I fear for Andromeda as well. At this point in time I don't know if I will be able to get as invested in the characters or story because it will be held against this trilogy. I imagine my shields will be up as well to protect myself from the heartache this game has caused.
We'll see. There are different people involved. They may or may not be able to make lightning strike twice. And as well, we can never experience Mass Effect for the first time ever again. That's the problem with experience, and memory. Still, I hope you have some fond memories of Mass Effect despite the heartache of the ending.
+2
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
That might be true for you, but look at El Mucho's response. He's self aware enough to recognize the kind of ending he was deeply wanting, no matter how poor the execution of the actual ending was.
It's true for him too (see his reply). And yeah we all want a happy ending, but that doesn't mean that a sad ending couldn't have been just as amazing if executed right. I know you like them, but the execution on the current endings was terrible, and once I got past my own wish to pretend they're better than they are I was able to be "self aware" enough to see a lot of ways they could have gone and been excellent, happy or not.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
That might be true for you, but look at El Mucho's response. He's self aware enough to recognize the kind of ending he was deeply wanting, no matter how poor the execution of the actual ending was.
It's true for him too (see his reply). And yeah we all want a happy ending, but that doesn't mean that a sad ending couldn't have been just as amazing if executed right. I know you like them, but the execution on the current endings was terrible, and once I got past my own wish to pretend they're better than they are I was able to be "self aware" enough to see a lot of ways they could have gone and been excellent, happy or not.
I guess I'm not communicating things right then.
I say "a bittersweet ending", I mean Shepard is dead, part or all of her crew is dead, the Council is in disarray, the galaxy is in chaos, things are pretty well fucked. But the Reapers are dead E.g. the broad strokes of what we got with the actual ending.
Execution, to me, is things like explanation of the Reapers motivations, the Star Child, push button receive ending, even Marauder Shields, the rebuilding of the relays in the extended cut, Joker crashing on some unknown planet, etc. HOW those events are explained and how they happen.
A "happy ending" is one in which Shepard and the rest of the crew lives, the destruction is glossed over (see also The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and any number of other super-hero movies), and the aftereffects of these titanic changes to the universe are ignored.
I suspect that you would be happy with a bittersweet ending if it was executed correctly.
Okay, so I am sort of all over the place and I'm still trying to figure out exactly how I feel.
As the game ended what I wanted more than anything was a happy ending with my crew and no more threat to the galaxy. Goofy and silly in context but what I wanted.
What @Cambiata suggested would have been an ending I would have been deeply sad about but I think I would have come away loving.
What I got was a happy but bittersweet ending that was unclear to me why it was happening but required I sacrifice myself to accomplish it. It was clearly the only choice that made sense for my Shepard but I felt forced into it. I was sad because the ending was bittersweet but soured because I felt a little cheated.
It was a combination of not meeting my outrageous expectation with bad execution and it left me feeling a little sour with lots of sadness.
I have never had to reflect on a piece of fiction before in order to move on and this whole conversation is helping me do that, so thank you.
Since we're talking about the ending again, I'm going to link to my three favorite criticisms from the boards at that time:
:snip:
Awesome, I will definitely give these a read and watch!
BNet: ElMucho#1392
Origin: theRealElMucho
+1
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Dying next to your romance interest would have been fine but I chuckle at that a bit considering how shitty the original ending was with the limited character flashback vignettes.
And the game would just force Liara there by your side anyway because even approaching death Bioware will just make those last seconds frustrating.
Question with respect to the end sequence when you are running for the elevator. In my game both squad mates were evacuated and survived. Was that scene added as part of the extended cut or a consequence of my war assets?
BNet: ElMucho#1392
Origin: theRealElMucho
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Question with respect to the end sequence when you are running for the elevator. In my game both squad mates were evacuated and survived. Was that scene added as part of the extended cut or a consequence of my war assets?
It was added with the extended cut to take care of one of the frequent criticisms of the ending.
My hope for Andromeda is that we have no idea what happened in the home galaxy. That you have to assume the worst and that you are all that's left of the council races.
My hope for Andromeda is that we have no idea what happened in the home galaxy. That you have to assume the worst and that you are all that's left of the council races.
I would think that's how they do it, but ME had FTL communication shenanigans outside of the Mass Relays so it would be equally weird for them to not address it.
My hope for Andromeda is that we have no idea what happened in the home galaxy. That you have to assume the worst and that you are all that's left of the council races.
I would think that's how they do it, but ME had FTL communication shenanigans outside of the Mass Relays so it would be equally weird for them to not address it.
There are ways around that: maybe the Colony Ship is in communication blackout to prevent Reapers from tracking them?
Yeah, but we had FTL before we discovered the mass effect, it just wasn't fast enough to get anywhere. However we get to Andromeda, the results are going to be long over. And probably the records and everyone that worked on the project would be gone. It'd take a bit of handwaving, but it's doable.
My hope for Andromeda is that we have no idea what happened in the home galaxy. That you have to assume the worst and that you are all that's left of the council races.
Yup best way to do it is the project launched as the reaper invasion was going full force. You are executing plan noahs arc trying to bring enough of the council races far enough away to start again elsewhere hopefully beyond the reach of the reapers or at least at a different part of the cycle to maybe avoid waking them up again.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
They use 'quantum entanglement' point to point comms in the second and third games, which was described as being super inefficient since it only works for one line. Basically an infinitely long string between two cans. That could work from Milky Way to Andromeda, buuut only between two devices planned in advance to talk to each other. So probably whatever form the 'ark' ship took will have it, but your own personal rides probably won't.
My hope for Andromeda is that we have no idea what happened in the home galaxy. That you have to assume the worst and that you are all that's left of the council races.
I would think that's how they do it, but ME had FTL communication shenanigans outside of the Mass Relays so it would be equally weird for them to not address it.
There are ways around that: maybe the Colony Ship is in communication blackout to prevent Reapers from tracking them?
Really if you are going to do this at all you would not only want communication black out but also destroy all records of the colony ships existance and purge all references to it and anybody on/involved in it so when indoctrination happens any taken over scientist can't spill the beans on its existence.
Posts
I literally yelled 1 v 1 me bro at my monitor!
I had to call it for the night after that mission. After brokering a peace treaty with the Geth and Quarians and being on a bit of a feel good high they throw that mission at you. When I kill Kai Leng it needs to be as simple as killing Udina. I think that's the only way it should go (I know it won't).
This game has been such an emotional roller coaster for me. For all the flack that Bioware gets for writing or ham fisted scenes or inconsistency they do a really good job of getting you invested in the story.
I think I understand my wife a little better after playing through Mass Effect 3 now. When we watched Breaking Bad she was always emotionally drained afterwards and worried about the characters; I never understood. This game is the first time I've ever had these emotions from a piece of fiction, it's messing me up!
Awesome game!
When is the best time to play the Citadel DLC? I have the Priority: Horizon mission still to do. I've read some people say to do it after the main story is complete or is it meant to be a last hurrah before the final battle?
Origin: theRealElMucho
IMO, save it for after you're done with the game. It's a delightful sendoff to the fans, but so goofily funny that it doesn't fit well in emotional content with the bulk of the game.
Origin: theRealElMucho
yeah, this happened to me too. Nothing there, don't worry about it!
I've had a shitty day, and this made it much better.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I've never switched out of my Blood Dragon armor. +30% powers damage, +20% shields, +10% power recharge speed. Also, it looks baller as hell.
No lie or exaggeration, when starting up the final mission in ME2 and *everyone knows what happens here or at least should* right at the beginning of that cutscene, I literally recoiled back and reflexively yelled "JOKER!!"
Suffice to say I was immersed as fuck at that point.
Also
Best time for Citadel is after you've beaten the base game and are "done" with the single player.
Horizon and Cerberus base
The whole Miranda arc seemed a bit odd to me, she gives you vague reasons and no information, then asks for alliance assets to help her, but she can't tell you why. It made no sense. Tell me what's up and I'll biotic charge everything until your sister is safe. Oh well, I'll likely do a trilogy run before Andromeda and try and keep her alive.
Cerberus base was satisfying, I was really hoping I could kill the Illusive man too.However, I did get my 1 v 1 and as I suspected Kai Leng was a chump. I really think that fight would have been even more satisfying as a simple quick time event; he charges you, you side step and disarm him then stab him with his own sword. Showing him in the simplest way, that no you aren't the new Shepard.
If I don't get to kill the Illusive man on the Citadel I will be hugely disappointed.
I really wish the final battle had allowed me to assign non used squad mates to tasks, it really feels like a missed opportunity. Are they just sitting on Normandy waiting for me to come back? It's sort of silly that they couldn't give you a short scene before you jump to Sol in which you give Garrus, James etc. a mission or have them be a landing team to knock out the anti air guns. Maybe something is coming that I am unaware of; I only just started the Earth attack.
Hackett is a legend. He really annoyed me in the other games but I've grown to really like him through this game.
This has been an amazing emotional ride. I had goosebumps when Hackett came aboard the Normandy, I was a bag of nerves telling Hackett to order the attack and watching the fleet come through the relay. And the exploration and descriptions of all the planets you scan adds an extra layer of sadness to this whole thing.
I'm not at all ready for this story to be over and I am so scared about the ending. God damn this game, Shepard can't die! I can't leave my love interest alone, the pain would be crippling for them after so much loss already!
Rambling again, sorry.
Edit: I beat the game tonight, I think I'm going to need some time to deconstruct that.
Origin: theRealElMucho
Everything right up until the intelligence was great. The walk through the ruins talking to each squad member was fantastic, had me in tears again. The final push defending the missiles was an intense fight and felt desperate. The run set piece to the elevator just fantastic. Helping an injured Liara and Garrus back onto the Normandy and the last goodbye, sitting with Anderson as he died just perfect. It was such a good conclusion up until the intelligence.
But that conversation with the intelligence came out of left field. My god, I sat dumbfounded for long enough to get a game over screen and had to reload. None made any sense, destruction basically shits all over everything you've done up until that point. I suppose it could make sense in a Renegade play through but how I'd been playing I just couldn't do it. I'd spent the entire game helping EDI find an identity, fixed the Geth/Quarian conflict, uniting the galaxy, it was just an impossible choice for me.
Control was never on the table because if Shepard was going to sacrifice himself it wasn't going to be for ultimate power. So that left me with Synthesis, which while providing the happiest ending left me feeling like shit anyway because all the friendships and character development were just thrown out the window. If the goal of the developers was to leave everyone feeling shitty I think they succeeded immensely.
It's almost like in an effort to definitively close the setting they forgot what the rest of the game had been about. They needed to move on so they came up with ideas that would close the Milky way for good. Ultimately, I think what I needed was a happily ever after for Shepard, even if it would have been massively cliched, make it hard to do but come on! I think closing the setting and respecting the players could have been achieved.
I can't even fathom how people must have felt without the extended cut. I at least got to see my crew take off from that garden world at the very end. Post Anderson death felt rushed and ill conceived.
It was a really great game with a great story and frustrating ending that ultimately left me feeling very sad. Almost entirely because I don't get to see Shepard in a post reaper galaxy with his love interest or friends.
I also have no idea what that last little sequence added with the Stargazer and the child. Was that supposed to be like way in the future? Why were they talking like space travel was some far fetched thing? Maybe I miss understood, I was in a little bit of shock.
Origin: theRealElMucho
It's an interesting experiment, but as you guessed it didn't exactly resonate with a lot of people. I personally liked the... melancholy of it, I guess I'd say.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Can a great story have a sad ending? Can a great game have a sad ending? The execution might have been not great (many on this board would say terrible), but taken in the broadest strokes the ending makes sense to me, and is in keeping with the general arc of ME3.
The hero arrives ME1 as a generic badass and exits genuine hero with a growing crew of loyal fellow badasses. ME2 sees not even death stopping the hero, and collecting an even larger group of people around them. Nothing can stop the hero! Except within the first 5 minutes of ME3, turns out, yes, there are forces that can stop the hero. And they'll need to muster every bit of willpower, gather every ally, and spit them in the face of the forces that oppose them.
The hero, along with a long-time ally finally make it to the control room. The long time ally dies. The hero is plainly bleeding out. Pretend the Star Child sequence was something unknown but better. Wouldn't it be entirely in keeping with the thrust of ME3 for the hero to die right then and there? For most of the crew to be dead, the galaxy in ruins? Even if it was a completely bloodless victory, the galaxy would still be in ruins; the Reapers made it to every world and started their harvest, wrecking untold trillions of lives. The loss of infrastructure alone would likely kill still more trillions as integrated systems, run with little margin, are smashed.
I think a happy ending is a betrayal under those circumstances. The happiest we can hope for is bittersweet: this victory cost us heavily, but the council races still survive, and the Reapers have been stopped.
Likely because it was rushed; they had to bring VAs back to redo lines late in the process.
jdarksun already said the what, to that I'd add originally it was voiced by Buzz Aldrin. Unfortunately he was terrible as a VA, but it was a neat idea with poor execution.
You reach for everything, you end up with nothing.
Synthesis in a nutshell.
"And then, my sweet, Shepard started making hot love to her in the engine room where pretty much everyone could see!"
Of course you are correct. But that doesn't change what I badly wanted to happen. All considered, I do believe the ending I chose fits but it is definitely not want I needed.
I just got so invested in the game that any thing other than the happiest of happy endings was crushing.
To be clear, when I say shitty options I am mostly considering from Shepard's perspective.
Thanks for reading and responding to my rambling.
Origin: theRealElMucho
On the one hand, that Bioware can produce a game that affecting is remarkable, considering how little most games manage to engage us emotionally. Excite us or amaze us? Sure. But engage us where we are emotionally invested in the characters and the universe? Rare indeed. And for us to be so engaged with the characters and universe we get upset at the game and game-makers when things don't work out as we had deeply desired--it's likely a unicorn.
On the other hand, I'm not sure what it says for the possibility space of AAA productions that a bittersweet ending is going to be roundly reviled by a large chunk of the paying public. But I'm trying to think of other media where that isn't the case...and failing. What was the last blockbuster that had a bittersweet ending? At worst it's usually just the faceless millions that have their lives wrecked; the heroes wander out, give each other a thumbs up, put on their sunglasses and peel out into the sunset.
I'm sorry the ending didn't do it for you, but you're in good company with the folks that didn't like it. Your response is fairly typical, at least on this board. Actually, no. You're much more reasoned about it than most have been.
Now that you've got the ending out of the way, go play Citadel. It's a great way to end the series off, and should wash that sour taste out of your mouth. It's the happy ending you've asked for. Make sure you wander around and listen to all the ambient conversations too, and talk to all your companions in your apartment after the party is over (you'll get invites).
The fact that Bioware was able to make me feel this invested is a marvel of game design and story telling. The only thing that I can compare it to is the feeling I had upon finishing the Lord of the Rings and watching the movie Interstellar. Mass Effect hit me harder of course because it was me actively participating in the story and friendship building.
I think once I've had some time I'll reach a point in which I can consider the ending good. I'm at least partly glad I waited so long, I would have literally died without the extended cut.
I'll probably wait a little while to play Citadel. Maybe give it a week or two Mass Effect has literally been all I can think about since I started playing.
I fear for Andromeda as well. At this point in time I don't know if I will be able to get as invested in the characters or story because it will be held against this trilogy. I imagine my shields will be up as well to protect myself from the heartache this game has caused.
Origin: theRealElMucho
It's been said before, but I think for a lot of people the fact that it's bittersweet isn't the only reason it's disliked. I remember thinking, back before the extended cut, that if the game had simply ended with my death side-by-side with my love interest, I could live with that. It would be painful, and I would cry. But as long as the story remained true to what had come before, it would have been OK, it would maybe even have been the most touching and amazing story ending I'd ever seen. It was the "and now, for something completely different" element of the endings that rankled more than any other aspect.
Edit: as proof that I'm not just bullshiting about actually appreciating bittersweet endings, Central Station is one of my favorite films. And it was, as I recall, pretty well received at the time. The ending of that film is one that I can recall in detail even though it's been years since I've seen it. I can't say the same about many films I've seen recently.
I think if there had been no choice in the matter and the only ending had been the refuse ending but I was able to die next to my love interest I would have sobbed but I think I could have loved that ending. Then you would see the recording by Liara and have hope that the next cycle would be stopped.
Origin: theRealElMucho
That might be true for you, but look at El Mucho's response. He's self aware enough to recognize the kind of ending he was deeply wanting, no matter how poor the execution of the actual ending was.
I feel the same way. There's a reason we're still talking about this game years after it's been released. Too bad about Interstellar's ending...
With the extended cut most people think it's a tolerable ending now, where previously it was intolerable. I'm glad you didn't have to go through the original, because the rage was famous.
Understandable. Even if the ending was properly executed, it would still be emotionally draining. Just remember to play Citadel while things are still fresh. If you don't have a big stupid grin on your face for 90% of it, I don't know what to say.
We'll see. There are different people involved. They may or may not be able to make lightning strike twice. And as well, we can never experience Mass Effect for the first time ever again. That's the problem with experience, and memory. Still, I hope you have some fond memories of Mass Effect despite the heartache of the ending.
It's true for him too (see his reply). And yeah we all want a happy ending, but that doesn't mean that a sad ending couldn't have been just as amazing if executed right. I know you like them, but the execution on the current endings was terrible, and once I got past my own wish to pretend they're better than they are I was able to be "self aware" enough to see a lot of ways they could have gone and been excellent, happy or not.
@Jacobkosh talks about the sense of wonder that good sci-fi instills and how the ending tried and failed to create that:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/156984/awesome-mass-effect-3-there-goes-the-neighborhood-by-jacobkosh/p1
@Orikaeshigitae talks about how the entire series builds up to a climax, and then fails to provide the climax
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/157121/awesome-mass-effect-3-welcome-to-our-thread-here-are-your-compli-by-orikaeshigitae/p1
@Yougottawanna made a well-thought out video that's an homage to Red Letter Media, and it launched his now-illustrious youtube career:
I guess I'm not communicating things right then.
Execution, to me, is things like explanation of the Reapers motivations, the Star Child, push button receive ending, even Marauder Shields, the rebuilding of the relays in the extended cut, Joker crashing on some unknown planet, etc. HOW those events are explained and how they happen.
A "happy ending" is one in which Shepard and the rest of the crew lives, the destruction is glossed over (see also The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and any number of other super-hero movies), and the aftereffects of these titanic changes to the universe are ignored.
I suspect that you would be happy with a bittersweet ending if it was executed correctly.
Edit: see also: Fall of Hyperion
As the game ended what I wanted more than anything was a happy ending with my crew and no more threat to the galaxy. Goofy and silly in context but what I wanted.
What @Cambiata suggested would have been an ending I would have been deeply sad about but I think I would have come away loving.
What I got was a happy but bittersweet ending that was unclear to me why it was happening but required I sacrifice myself to accomplish it. It was clearly the only choice that made sense for my Shepard but I felt forced into it. I was sad because the ending was bittersweet but soured because I felt a little cheated.
It was a combination of not meeting my outrageous expectation with bad execution and it left me feeling a little sour with lots of sadness.
I have never had to reflect on a piece of fiction before in order to move on and this whole conversation is helping me do that, so thank you.
Origin: theRealElMucho
Awesome, I will definitely give these a read and watch!
Origin: theRealElMucho
And the game would just force Liara there by your side anyway because even approaching death Bioware will just make those last seconds frustrating.
Origin: theRealElMucho
It was added with the extended cut to take care of one of the frequent criticisms of the ending.
I would think that's how they do it, but ME had FTL communication shenanigans outside of the Mass Relays so it would be equally weird for them to not address it.
There are ways around that: maybe the Colony Ship is in communication blackout to prevent Reapers from tracking them?
Yup best way to do it is the project launched as the reaper invasion was going full force. You are executing plan noahs arc trying to bring enough of the council races far enough away to start again elsewhere hopefully beyond the reach of the reapers or at least at a different part of the cycle to maybe avoid waking them up again.
Really if you are going to do this at all you would not only want communication black out but also destroy all records of the colony ships existance and purge all references to it and anybody on/involved in it so when indoctrination happens any taken over scientist can't spill the beans on its existence.