I have a feeling mythic+ will revolve a lot around trash skips and the consequential asspulls which will cause a ton of yelling as a wipe or extra pack clear makes the group miss the timer. And then you're done for the week.
It makes me suspect that the public scene for it will be dire. And I'm not sure I'm committed enough to find a regular 5 man crew. (Which I can also see causing in guild strife for many people, one of the reasons my TBC raid guild fractured was how ZA bear runs were handled with an elite tier within raider ranks)
Hm.
Could be. I guess the rewards being actually linked to gameplay is a big deal...
For me I look at it and say "Well, I basically pug'd all of my Gold Challenge Modes from two expansions" so when I look at Mythic+ it seems pretty reasonable to think you could find some groups in Group finder. Doing Silver CMs was very reasonable for most players in the past two expansions; probably there will be Mythic+ levels that are extremely reasonable but at levels 8+ it completely breaks down for pug/non-voice chat play.
Challenge Modes had a self-selecting benefit in that only players who were interested in it would go for it and because the rewards were not an item level boost it probably attracted a more hard-core crowd. Mythic+ dungeons will be different though. Many more people are going to investigate it. With so many variable levels of difficulty... this will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Mythic keystone dungeons won't be too difficult for PUGs, don't be silly. It'll be like pugging any other content - on average, a pug group will need a higher group ilvl to succeed than a coordinated guild group. Which is neither surprising nor unreasonable.
Mythic keystone dungeons won't be too difficult for PUGs, don't be silly. It'll be like pugging any other content - on average, a pug group will need a higher group ilvl to succeed than a coordinated guild group. Which is neither surprising nor unreasonable.
It's mostly that 1 bad group halts your progress for a week.
My Maw Mythic this reset was terrible. All 3 dps didn't listen to instructions and kept dying to p1 and p2 AoE because they were not watching her animations. 8 wipes, took over an hour just for her, the rogue eventually learned and we 3 manned it in like 7 minutes with the other 2 once again dead.
Maw is probably a good candidate for Mythic+ because it's short, it has predictable trash with only 1 bad enemy (That AoE lightning dude of which you kill 2 or 3) and avoidance boss mechanics which are equally difficult no matter the hp / damage off the boss. But land a bad group like that and you are done for the week.
The feature that makes it unable to grind (to make it less "hardcore") makes it more elite.
I think Mythics would be great if you could do them with your Battlenet friends, at least.
Because then we as a forum could just do them instead of with randoms from our servers.
Keeping Mythics from having a LFG is really dumb when you can make a website that lets you find people in your server to play with that's pretty much the same shit.
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
I think Mythics would be great if you could do them with your Battlenet friends, at least.
Because then we as a forum could just do them instead of with randoms from our servers.
Keeping Mythics from having a LFG is really dumb when you can make a website that lets you find people in your server to play with that's pretty much the same shit.
Mythics are not hard enough to justify not having a LFG queue.
I'm sure Mythic+s are, especially as you get up there, but the ones that are just Mythic are really just "slightly harder Heroics, which are already braindead easy"
I supported the idea of forming a group from them when I imagined them, but now that I've seen the reality I'm like "eh whatever just throw a group with appropriate ilvl together from the queue it's fine"
This , heroics feel like old dungeon normals and from what ive seen mythics dont seem to add much at the base level . BC heroic dungeons however were super freaking hard! I dont think ive ever struggled in a dungeon like that ever before or since.
Halls of origination, Cata heroics, right at the beginning.
Edit: felt around as hard as some easier bc's
InfamyDeferred on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Mythic keystone dungeons won't be too difficult for PUGs, don't be silly. It'll be like pugging any other content - on average, a pug group will need a higher group ilvl to succeed than a coordinated guild group. Which is neither surprising nor unreasonable.
It's mostly that 1 bad group halts your progress for a week.
My Maw Mythic this reset was terrible. All 3 dps didn't listen to instructions and kept dying to p1 and p2 AoE because they were not watching her animations. 8 wipes, took over an hour just for her, the rogue eventually learned and we 3 manned it in like 7 minutes with the other 2 once again dead.
Maw is probably a good candidate for Mythic+ because it's short, it has predictable trash with only 1 bad enemy (That AoE lightning dude of which you kill 2 or 3) and avoidance boss mechanics which are equally difficult no matter the hp / damage off the boss. But land a bad group like that and you are done for the week.
The feature that makes it unable to grind (to make it less "hardcore") makes it more elite.
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Mythic keystone dungeons won't be too difficult for PUGs, don't be silly. It'll be like pugging any other content - on average, a pug group will need a higher group ilvl to succeed than a coordinated guild group. Which is neither surprising nor unreasonable.
It's mostly that 1 bad group halts your progress for a week.
My Maw Mythic this reset was terrible. All 3 dps didn't listen to instructions and kept dying to p1 and p2 AoE because they were not watching her animations. 8 wipes, took over an hour just for her, the rogue eventually learned and we 3 manned it in like 7 minutes with the other 2 once again dead.
Maw is probably a good candidate for Mythic+ because it's short, it has predictable trash with only 1 bad enemy (That AoE lightning dude of which you kill 2 or 3) and avoidance boss mechanics which are equally difficult no matter the hp / damage off the boss. But land a bad group like that and you are done for the week.
The feature that makes it unable to grind (to make it less "hardcore") makes it more elite.
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
Mythic keystone dungeons won't be too difficult for PUGs, don't be silly. It'll be like pugging any other content - on average, a pug group will need a higher group ilvl to succeed than a coordinated guild group. Which is neither surprising nor unreasonable.
It's mostly that 1 bad group halts your progress for a week.
My Maw Mythic this reset was terrible. All 3 dps didn't listen to instructions and kept dying to p1 and p2 AoE because they were not watching her animations. 8 wipes, took over an hour just for her, the rogue eventually learned and we 3 manned it in like 7 minutes with the other 2 once again dead.
Maw is probably a good candidate for Mythic+ because it's short, it has predictable trash with only 1 bad enemy (That AoE lightning dude of which you kill 2 or 3) and avoidance boss mechanics which are equally difficult no matter the hp / damage off the boss. But land a bad group like that and you are done for the week.
The feature that makes it unable to grind (to make it less "hardcore") makes it more elite.
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
Still terrible, toxic behavior promoting design.
At least raids give loot if you accidentally wipe on an easy boss
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
And again, all that means is that pug groups will find that they won't be able to do levels as high as a coordinated guild group, all else being equal.
what is the 'toxic' part considered to be, precisely? How is anybody 'punished?'
ed: I mean you only get loot once a week anyway; the 'reactivation run' doesn't give you loot because you already got loot the first time you ran (and failed.)
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You can definitely do mythic dungeons with bnet friends.
And the only way mythic + punishes you for failing is that it doesn't unlock even more difficult content until you've completed the easier content first, which seems reasonable.
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Mythic + dungeons are supposed to be the top end 5 man content. You know, something we never had before
When you walk into a mythic raid, do you get anything for failing miserably? No. You don't get a consolation prize. You get told by the game to GTFO unless you are up to it.
Mythic + dungeons are the small group equivalent of that. Except I think you even get loot if you complete it without making time, you just don't move on.
So how is that driving out players? If getting new loot is the issue, titanforging is there to make whatever content you can do always be worthwhile. Its a small chance, but its there.
It is a HUUUUUUUGE stretch to call that shitty design for content, and even worse to claim someone works for blizzard to not blindly dislike it because it might not give you "first place loser" trophies when you lose. This is actually the most accessible expansion they have ever had, while at the same time not making a bunch of super easy and pointless content like dungeons in WOD were.
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you complete a mythic dungeon, but don't beat the timer, you still get all your usual loot from the bosses you killed, at an item level consistent with the keystone that was used. You also get your keystone back, if you used one (only one person in the group needs to use their keystone). If you run that dungeon again to try and beat the timer and you win this time, your keystone gets better, but you don't get loot from the bosses until the reset, which is exactly the way that mythic dungeons have worked since they were introduced in WoD.
And this is anecdotal, but the timers are pretty dang generous, and the win conditions are only win/ lose. Skipping trash will certainly help, but it won't be anything like challenge modes where you need to bring a rogue with mass stealth or use an in is potion at just the right time
It seems really hard to get over the hump from normals into heroics. I'm at 801 ilvl right now and WQs are only just giving me 810 gear. Seems like a long time pushing people into mostly useless normals.
You can get a couple pieces of your order hall set pretty easily, and they can be upgraded to 830. That helped me out a ton.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I imagine this is how bad habits develop, but Fury of Elune is doing a bangup job of incentivizing me to evaluate boss abilities on the basis of: "Does your attack do enough damage to kill me? No? Then fuck it, I ain't moving."
Mythic + dungeons are supposed to be the top end 5 man content. You know, something we never had before
When you walk into a mythic raid, do you get anything for failing miserably? No. You don't get a consolation prize. You get told by the game to GTFO unless you are up to it.
Mythic + dungeons are the small group equivalent of that. Except I think you even get loot if you complete it without making time, you just don't move on.
So how is that driving out players? If getting new loot is the issue, titanforging is there to make whatever content you can do always be worthwhile. Its a small chance, but its there.
It is a HUUUUUUUGE stretch to call that shitty design for content, and even worse to claim someone works for blizzard to not blindly dislike it because it might not give you "first place loser" trophies when you lose. This is actually the most accessible expansion they have ever had, while at the same time not making a bunch of super easy and pointless content like dungeons in WOD were.
Mythic raids don't go, "Sorry, you took too long, restart the entire raid to try again!". If someone is having a hard time, you respawn, and try that boss again. Forcing people to restart the entire thing, whenever someone makes a mistake is going to cause people to stop even attempting it with their lesser skilled friends or less ideal classes. The groups are ALREADY excluding people from getting into them based on just their class.
If you want timed elitest wankery bullshit, keep it to cosmetic stuff like the gold challenges from WoD, don't tie progression to it. Titanforging is not an alternative towards people making actual gear progression, I have not even seen a piece drop in any dungeon I have done, and I have been in heroics since like the second day.
I asked Dalph if he worked for blizzard, because he defends almost every single thing that anyone complains about in this thread.
e:
Plus not to mention, in getting these fancy new super dungeons, normal heroics got nerfed into permanent easy mode, with no way to anything actual difficult without getting a manual group.
Morkath on
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2016
Mythic raids don't go, "Sorry, you took too long, restart the entire raid to try again!".
Good news, neither do mythic keystone dungeons.
The timer is super lenient. Even with wipes, any group that isn't trying to tackle a challenge beyond their skill or gear level will complete it within enough time to get the loot chest at the end.
The super hardcore groups will be pushing 15-20min clears to get multiple levels of upgraded keystones out of a single run, but that's not a requirement to get loot out of it, nor do you walk home empty handed if you don't want to play that way.
Plus not to mention, in getting these fancy new super dungeons, normal heroics got nerfed into permanent easy mode, with no way to anything actual difficult without getting a manual group.
Name an expansion in recent memory where heroics were not permanent easy mode once you outgeared them.
The only thing that was different in WoD and now Legion is that it's easier than ever to outgear heroics.
Titanforging is not an alternative towards people making actual gear progression, I have not even seen a piece drop in any dungeon I have done, and I have been in heroics since like the second day.
You have not seen a single item above 825 come out of a heroic? In two weeks?
Dhalphir on
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It kind of sounds like you want a bunch of difficult content, but you also want to be protected from failure in the scenario where you've gone with a bad group.
You can't have it both ways. If it's difficult, there has to be a way to fail.
Forcing people to restart the entire thing,
I don't even know what you're talking about with this. You don't have to restart if you wipe. You just wipe, run back, and try again.
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
You're aware that a deactivated keystone doesn't mean you can't run keystone loot runs anymore, right? It just means you personally can't start them with your own stone. Each run only uses one keystone from the group. If you're joining a PUG group, one would assume you're not going to need to use your own keystone, because the group will be started by someone with one and they'll use theirs.
on top of that, like I said, I don't think you realise how lenient these timers are. These are not challenge modes. The timers are up to an hour in some cases. If a given group can't successfully complete a 5man dungeon in an hour, then that content was too difficult for them. Whether it's your fault personally that the group wasn't good enough or not is irrelevant. Welcome to playing with other people. If you want more control over the success of a group, form your own.
Eating another half hour of my time doing it over isn't "difficulty" it is monotony. I want the difficulty to be in the gameplay itself.
The fun thing about difficult gameplay is that sometimes you fail.
If you can't fail, then your vaunted "difficulty" simply becomes bashing your head against a brick wall until the wall caves in. That sounds like monotony to me.
Dhalphir on
+5
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Also, you and others keep bringing up having to form manual groups as if it's some horrible onerous chore. Start your own group and form it yourself. You'll have plenty of control over the success of your group because you can invite whoever you want, and I absolutely guarantee it will be quicker than waiting in a queue would ever be.
Heroics in WoD, were not set to easy mode 3 days after the expansion came out.
Uh, yeah they were. By the time you were ilvl 635, heroics were pretty much completely easy mode, just like they are in Legion once you're 830.
The only difference is, in Legion now you have content to move on to. In WoD you did not, not unless you were going to move on to normal raiding, or the occasional LFR.
Given that arguing about it won't change it, and also given that Mythic+ isn't out yet for us to see the outcome, let's all chill out!
I saw someone yesterday running around with a Druid of the Claw combat ally, I think, but I can't seem to figure out how to do that. Anyone know?
Also, it feels like the XP gain for regular allies assigned as Combat allies is quite slow--or at least slower than running missions with them. What do you guys think?
"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
Given that arguing about it won't change it, and also given that Mythic+ isn't out yet for us to see the outcome, let's all chill out!
I saw someone yesterday running around with a Druid of the Claw combat ally, I think, but I can't seem to figure out how to do that. Anyone know?
Also, it feels like the XP gain for regular allies assigned as Combat allies is quite slow--or at least slower than running missions with them. What do you guys think?
I just started, so that might be skewing things for me. Anyways, it seems like it's quicker to level up a combat ally with questing than it is through missions. Though when you go for a huge stretch without missions, I guess it does end up being quicker. Right now Liadrin, who I was using as a combat ally, is at 103, while Maxwell is sitting at 101 after two missions. Since I seem to be getting tons of resources, I had zero issue unassigning Liadrin though, so I could stick here on a mission before logging out.
Also since I've been out for two years. I'm still messing around with the Draenor garrison.
I still want to know what the 'punishment' component of the system is supposed to be
if you don't make the time, you have to run the same difficulty again and clear the timer to continue upgrading your keystone. What other outcome even is a realistic possibility?
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
Hm.
Could be. I guess the rewards being actually linked to gameplay is a big deal...
For me I look at it and say "Well, I basically pug'd all of my Gold Challenge Modes from two expansions" so when I look at Mythic+ it seems pretty reasonable to think you could find some groups in Group finder. Doing Silver CMs was very reasonable for most players in the past two expansions; probably there will be Mythic+ levels that are extremely reasonable but at levels 8+ it completely breaks down for pug/non-voice chat play.
Challenge Modes had a self-selecting benefit in that only players who were interested in it would go for it and because the rewards were not an item level boost it probably attracted a more hard-core crowd. Mythic+ dungeons will be different though. Many more people are going to investigate it. With so many variable levels of difficulty... this will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
It's mostly that 1 bad group halts your progress for a week.
My Maw Mythic this reset was terrible. All 3 dps didn't listen to instructions and kept dying to p1 and p2 AoE because they were not watching her animations. 8 wipes, took over an hour just for her, the rogue eventually learned and we 3 manned it in like 7 minutes with the other 2 once again dead.
Maw is probably a good candidate for Mythic+ because it's short, it has predictable trash with only 1 bad enemy (That AoE lightning dude of which you kill 2 or 3) and avoidance boss mechanics which are equally difficult no matter the hp / damage off the boss. But land a bad group like that and you are done for the week.
The feature that makes it unable to grind (to make it less "hardcore") makes it more elite.
Because then we as a forum could just do them instead of with randoms from our servers.
Keeping Mythics from having a LFG is really dumb when you can make a website that lets you find people in your server to play with that's pretty much the same shit.
Can you not?
You can do mythic dungeons but not mythic raids if I understand correctly.
I assume mythic+ falls under dungeon rules.
That seems weird
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Halls of origination, Cata heroics, right at the beginning.
Edit: felt around as hard as some easier bc's
It doesn't halt your progress. Your keystone deactivates if you fail. If it deactivates, running the instance again with it will reactivate it and upgrade it if you succeed, you just won't get loot from the reactivation run. It's a mud puddle you have to slog through, not a brick wall that blocks you completely.
Whoever was telling you that either explained it badly or you misunderstood - only Mythic raids are locked to same server.
Still terrible, toxic behavior promoting design.
At least raids give loot if you accidentally wipe on an easy boss
It's a design mechanic that actively punishes you for not ostracizing non-fotm specs and lower skilled players.
Punishing people for failing is shitty fucking design, and how you drive your non-hardcore player base away.
ed: I mean you only get loot once a week anyway; the 'reactivation run' doesn't give you loot because you already got loot the first time you ran (and failed.)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
And the only way mythic + punishes you for failing is that it doesn't unlock even more difficult content until you've completed the easier content first, which seems reasonable.
When you walk into a mythic raid, do you get anything for failing miserably? No. You don't get a consolation prize. You get told by the game to GTFO unless you are up to it.
Mythic + dungeons are the small group equivalent of that. Except I think you even get loot if you complete it without making time, you just don't move on.
So how is that driving out players? If getting new loot is the issue, titanforging is there to make whatever content you can do always be worthwhile. Its a small chance, but its there.
It is a HUUUUUUUGE stretch to call that shitty design for content, and even worse to claim someone works for blizzard to not blindly dislike it because it might not give you "first place loser" trophies when you lose. This is actually the most accessible expansion they have ever had, while at the same time not making a bunch of super easy and pointless content like dungeons in WOD were.
The three posts between this post and yours address yours perfectly.
It doesn't punish you at all.
And this is anecdotal, but the timers are pretty dang generous, and the win conditions are only win/ lose. Skipping trash will certainly help, but it won't be anything like challenge modes where you need to bring a rogue with mass stealth or use an in is potion at just the right time
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OLcAGbXhWIVcl5IziVpG0eKFJS3xi_Sac9kYMkRFvD8/edit?usp=sharing
You can get a couple pieces of your order hall set pretty easily, and they can be upgraded to 830. That helped me out a ton.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Mythic raids don't go, "Sorry, you took too long, restart the entire raid to try again!". If someone is having a hard time, you respawn, and try that boss again. Forcing people to restart the entire thing, whenever someone makes a mistake is going to cause people to stop even attempting it with their lesser skilled friends or less ideal classes. The groups are ALREADY excluding people from getting into them based on just their class.
If you want timed elitest wankery bullshit, keep it to cosmetic stuff like the gold challenges from WoD, don't tie progression to it. Titanforging is not an alternative towards people making actual gear progression, I have not even seen a piece drop in any dungeon I have done, and I have been in heroics since like the second day.
I asked Dalph if he worked for blizzard, because he defends almost every single thing that anyone complains about in this thread.
e:
Plus not to mention, in getting these fancy new super dungeons, normal heroics got nerfed into permanent easy mode, with no way to anything actual difficult without getting a manual group.
Good news, neither do mythic keystone dungeons.
The timer is super lenient. Even with wipes, any group that isn't trying to tackle a challenge beyond their skill or gear level will complete it within enough time to get the loot chest at the end.
The super hardcore groups will be pushing 15-20min clears to get multiple levels of upgraded keystones out of a single run, but that's not a requirement to get loot out of it, nor do you walk home empty handed if you don't want to play that way.
Name an expansion in recent memory where heroics were not permanent easy mode once you outgeared them.
The only thing that was different in WoD and now Legion is that it's easier than ever to outgear heroics.
You have not seen a single item above 825 come out of a heroic? In two weeks?
You can't have it both ways. If it's difficult, there has to be a way to fail.
I don't even know what you're talking about with this. You don't have to restart if you wipe. You just wipe, run back, and try again.
e:
Why do I have to be punished for failure? The cost of failure is having to respawn/pay repair costs, get back to the content, and trying it again.
Eating another half hour of my time doing it over isn't "difficulty" it is monotony. I want the difficulty to be in the gameplay itself.
e2:
You don't understand my response to your post specifically? The one where you very specifically talk about having to restart?
There's so many honor talents that I wish were real ones... actually glad to have a anti-healing ability again in Psyfiend, even if it's a bit fiddly.
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You're aware that a deactivated keystone doesn't mean you can't run keystone loot runs anymore, right? It just means you personally can't start them with your own stone. Each run only uses one keystone from the group. If you're joining a PUG group, one would assume you're not going to need to use your own keystone, because the group will be started by someone with one and they'll use theirs.
on top of that, like I said, I don't think you realise how lenient these timers are. These are not challenge modes. The timers are up to an hour in some cases. If a given group can't successfully complete a 5man dungeon in an hour, then that content was too difficult for them. Whether it's your fault personally that the group wasn't good enough or not is irrelevant. Welcome to playing with other people. If you want more control over the success of a group, form your own.
The fun thing about difficult gameplay is that sometimes you fail.
If you can't fail, then your vaunted "difficulty" simply becomes bashing your head against a brick wall until the wall caves in. That sounds like monotony to me.
Uh, yeah they were. By the time you were ilvl 635, heroics were pretty much completely easy mode, just like they are in Legion once you're 830.
The only difference is, in Legion now you have content to move on to. In WoD you did not, not unless you were going to move on to normal raiding, or the occasional LFR.
I assumed that you were exaggerating a bit to make a point, so I went along with it.
We are now nearly 2 weeks from Legion's launch, not three days, and I assume that you would have been 635 two weeks after Warlords released.
Heroics in Legion were trivial on day 3, due to the fact I could buy 840 gear from a vendor in my class hall.
I saw someone yesterday running around with a Druid of the Claw combat ally, I think, but I can't seem to figure out how to do that. Anyone know?
Also, it feels like the XP gain for regular allies assigned as Combat allies is quite slow--or at least slower than running missions with them. What do you guys think?
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I just started, so that might be skewing things for me. Anyways, it seems like it's quicker to level up a combat ally with questing than it is through missions. Though when you go for a huge stretch without missions, I guess it does end up being quicker. Right now Liadrin, who I was using as a combat ally, is at 103, while Maxwell is sitting at 101 after two missions. Since I seem to be getting tons of resources, I had zero issue unassigning Liadrin though, so I could stick here on a mission before logging out.
Also since I've been out for two years. I'm still messing around with the Draenor garrison.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
if you don't make the time, you have to run the same difficulty again and clear the timer to continue upgrading your keystone. What other outcome even is a realistic possibility?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat