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[WoW] Legion: I have sacrificed everything...

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Posts

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    I've been trying to download this fucking app but when I download it, it says it's 79 MB. I got 1 G of open space on the internal (I can't clear anymore space...) and it won't install because of lack of space. How big is the app?

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    Mine says about 151 megs

  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I've thrown it away because your viewpoint is coming from a faulty origin. You are comparing WoW's performance to modern games and asking why they don't run as well, and I've explained why.

    But I'll address the other things you said anyway.
    I mean, the older a game is generally the more frames you get with newer hardware. It's not like if I load Quake I get 10fps or something.

    This is a very, very flawed comparison.

    If you loaded up vanilla WoW you'd get a bazillion frames a second too. But WoW is not vanilla WoW anymore. It has been updated constantly, with shinier, and shinier textures, better graphical effects, and constant upgrades to the size of zones and the amount of detail in those zones. But the core game engine is still the same and still relies on an architecture that was designed fifteen years ago.

    Adding features like SSAO or shadows to a game engine that wasn't designed for them is never going to deliver the same results as a modern engine that was optimized around the existence of those features.
    It's just odd to have 40fps on practically higher end hardware when I can load any modern game and get mostly 60fps+ at 1440

    I'm running at a near-rock solid 100fps @ 1440p on near max settings on the game. The only settings I've turned down, like I suggested you do, is Shadows and SSAO. Everything else is on max, and I never drop below 60 fps even in the most demanding areas.

    Already have those off and I'm not getting that, so yeah....

    As to the rest, you've got your opinion and I've got mine on my level of expected performance. I don't find it justifiable regardless, and you do. That's fine. Literally doesn't matter in the least how we feel about it. I just don't feel "well, it's old" as a rational metric to justify a game running like shit with the money and resources they pull in and have. I totally get that they have to have a wide gamut to appease, but I can have this, however absurd you think it is.

    Crayon on
    EnclaveofGnomes
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    At the end of the warlock class quest they're like "alright, now pick one of the new warlocks we recruited to help us to join the black council"

    and i just want to be like excuse me

    i am the boss

    i hire both of them, this is a false dichotomy

    "but tradition-"

    this is the second time i've had to bail your asses out i'm gonna go out on a limb and say some new rules are in order

    liEt3nH.png
    Shadowhope
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Crayon wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Crayon wrote: »
    I don't quite understand the correlation between age and FPS here.

    That's evident.

    A 12 year old game engine was not written with many features in mind that the devs have since added to the game. Modern graphical processing like SSAO and dynamic shadows are something that didn't exist when WoW was first made.

    The devs are working black magic to keep the engine running as well as it is, but it was not designed for the tasks they are asking of it and it shows.

    I guess you can go ahead and throw away the rest of my comment that is seemingly irrelevant, sure-why not. I mean, my complaint is rational here, there's no reason to seemingly justify shitty performance when we're paying full price for expansions plus a monthly fee. Seems real silly to defend that shitty performance.

    The reason he can throw out all of what you said is because you haven't done a modicum of research and generally show you lack knowledge on the subject.

    Nothing grinds my gears more than people asking why an MMO doesn't run as good as X single / small session game or some other shit.

    MMO's deal with things that will make them run bad no matter how much $$$ you throw into your machine. If you want flawless running games, play offline shit or stuff where they designate the number of people in a session beforehand. Don't ever, EVER go into an MMO hoping for your awesome rig to run it like butter.

    That being said, I have a 750TI and I get more than 40 fps just about always. Perhaps you should work a little harder than letting some already questionable outside program change the settings for you.

    Edit: Oh yes, and its not just opinion. There are facts about how programming this shit works. Also, they cannot just throw all that money they have into an old ass engine and create fucking magic. Quit talking like you know how to make a game just because you feel entitled to it.

    Kai_San on
    Shadowhope
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Crayon wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I've thrown it away because your viewpoint is coming from a faulty origin. You are comparing WoW's performance to modern games and asking why they don't run as well, and I've explained why.

    But I'll address the other things you said anyway.
    I mean, the older a game is generally the more frames you get with newer hardware. It's not like if I load Quake I get 10fps or something.

    This is a very, very flawed comparison.

    If you loaded up vanilla WoW you'd get a bazillion frames a second too. But WoW is not vanilla WoW anymore. It has been updated constantly, with shinier, and shinier textures, better graphical effects, and constant upgrades to the size of zones and the amount of detail in those zones. But the core game engine is still the same and still relies on an architecture that was designed fifteen years ago.

    Adding features like SSAO or shadows to a game engine that wasn't designed for them is never going to deliver the same results as a modern engine that was optimized around the existence of those features.
    It's just odd to have 40fps on practically higher end hardware when I can load any modern game and get mostly 60fps+ at 1440

    I'm running at a near-rock solid 100fps @ 1440p on near max settings on the game. The only settings I've turned down, like I suggested you do, is Shadows and SSAO. Everything else is on max, and I never drop below 60 fps even in the most demanding areas.

    Already have those off and I'm not getting that, so yeah....

    As to the rest, you've got your opinion and I've got mine on my level of expected performance. I don't find it justifiable regardless, and you do. That's fine. Literally doesn't matter in the least how we feel about it. I just don't feel "well, it's old" as a rational metric to justify a game running like shit with the money and resources they pull in and have. I totally get that they have to have a wide gamut to appease, but I can have this, however absurd you think it is.

    You're playing a 12 year old game running an engine (originally from 2001!) that has been so heavily modified over the years that it is groaning under its own weight. The fact that we have any of these features at all is a goddamn engineering and programming marvel. It's not "well it's old so it doesn't run so well" at all, it's "optimising features we weren't even aware of because they didn't exist yet is really hard, and it's a miracle we can even have them at all".

    To get the kind of optimisation you're talking about, they'd have to essentially recreate the entire game from scratch. And recreating a game the size of WoW (with 12 years of expansions) in modern graphics would probably be among the most expensive games ever created.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
    DonnictonShadowhope
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Crayon wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Crayon wrote: »
    I don't quite understand the correlation between age and FPS here.

    That's evident.

    A 12 year old game engine was not written with many features in mind that the devs have since added to the game. Modern graphical processing like SSAO and dynamic shadows are something that didn't exist when WoW was first made.

    The devs are working black magic to keep the engine running as well as it is, but it was not designed for the tasks they are asking of it and it shows.

    I guess you can go ahead and throw away the rest of my comment that is seemingly irrelevant, sure-why not. I mean, my complaint is rational here, there's no reason to seemingly justify shitty performance when we're paying full price for expansions plus a monthly fee. Seems real silly to defend that shitty performance.

    The reason he can throw out all of what you said is because you haven't done a modicum of research and generally show you lack knowledge on the subject.

    Nothing grinds my gears more than people asking why an MMO doesn't run as good as X single / small session game or some other shit.

    MMO's deal with things that will make them run bad no matter how much $$$ you throw into your machine. If you want flawless running games, play offline shit or stuff where they designate the number of people in a session beforehand. Don't ever, EVER go into an MMO hoping for your awesome rig to run it like butter.

    That being said, I have a 750TI and I get more than 40 fps just about always. Perhaps you should work a little harder than letting some already questionable outside program change the settings for you.

    Edit: Oh yes, and its not just opinion. There are facts about how programming this shit works. Also, they cannot just throw all that money they have into an old ass engine and create fucking magic. Quit talking like you know how to make a game just because you feel entitled to it.

    My opinion, however uneducated (which it is), is still my opinion. Goddamn, people-just let me have the offhand remark instead of 5 of you saying exactly the same goddamned thing. I get it. I know nothing on the topic and I never pretended to. I made a statement about how it was running like shit on new hardware. I didn't need 5 people saying the same thing. I get it. I do. So....thanks. I'll go do that working "harder" by moving sliders just to have the same experience I've been having for the last 5 fucking hours of doing it. I never even pretended to know how to fucking program a game, so stop projecting your "grind my gears" bullshit on me. Thanks. I sincerely apologize for being a couch commanding programmer here. As to letting an outside program do the mooooooooooonumental task of changing field values, I've never had it steer me wrong. But sure, you can be suuuuuuuuuuuper condescending on this insanely trivial thing as letting Geforce Experience one click for me. Jesus.

    Can we just drop this insanely stupid topic that I've already acknowledged is dumb on my part? Thanks.

    Having said that. So, I finished 4 world quests and have all check bars, but it's not giving me a place to turn in for the reward. Any ideas? Or can you only get the rewards from doing one zone a day, because earlier I did another zone and got the quest giver and reward just fine.

    Crayon on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    You didn't just make a statement of it not running well, you also implied that the reason it doesn't is because of some laziness or incompetence on their part instead of the simple fact that technology is fucking hard.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
    Kai_SanShadowhope
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    You didn't just make a statement of it not running well, you also implied that the reason it doesn't is because of some laziness or incompetence on their part instead of the simple fact that technology is fucking hard.

    Dude. I acknowledged I don't know shit. What more do you want? Or do you want to just keep doing this? Drop it.

    exis
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    It is fairly common knowledge that the Geforce Experience can screw up game settings in ways beyond just the actual settings. I can't explain why because I myself am not a programmer and don't quite understand the drivers, but I have heard it ruining other games as well as WoW until the drivers are perfected at some point.

    Which BTW someone did say a few days ago somewhere Geforce updated its drivers and one focus was for better Legion performance. Checking those couldn't hurt.

    Regardless of your opinion, you also should be capable of more than 40 fps. The only thing is, when it comes to PC games, you absolutely cannot just get a top of the line computer and call it a day. Often you might need to figure out a few settings yourself and research a few tweaks. WoW generally hasn't been one of those games, but they added some new shit previously mentioned that they likely shouldn't have as those settings are way too easy to turn on and really do NOT run well.

  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    I once accidentally turned on SSAA, and couldn't work out why I was getting 10fps. Turns out that rendering at 5k and downsampling is really rough on your framerate!

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    This conversation prompted me to look at old beta videos and how it basically looked like a zoomed in version of WC3

    Shadowhope
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Fire mage is a popular spec

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    milk ducksbelligerentBeastehNobodyRozRiokenn
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    So the app is great in its interface and world quest tracking (it even tracks profession quests! The base game can't do that for some reason). Only problem is that the mission interface is bugged to hell and back. It seems to give me a default mission interface with no complete button.
    azith28 wrote: »
    I think Sylvanas's next attempt should be to reproduce what created the Forsaken in the first place. there are tons of Scourge sleeping/in stasis up in Northrend, now that Arthis is Dead, and new lich king is sleeping, they would be susceptible to being broken of the mindlessness just like the forsaken were.
    The Lich King isn't sleeping. He is very much active this time around.

    He's also kind of a dick, if you've done anything like the Felo'Melorn quest.

    But I suppose that kind of happens when you're a plagued, charred, tortured corpse wearing armor containing the spirit of Ner'Zhul.
    Ner'Zhul is long gone and so is Arthas. The only remnants are echoes in the shards of Frostmourne, but new Lich King is all Bolvar.

    EnclaveofGnomes
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Holy crap, this is the dankest puzzle shit. I approve.

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
    LorahaloDonnictonSmrtnikBeastehNobodyKruiteInfamyDeferredRiokenn
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    One other thing if you are having low frame rates is to turn off all your addons (all of them!!! No exceptions!) and see what happens. It sounds dumb but if you have a buggy addon it can really kill your fps for some reason. I remember in wrath thinking "look at this slide show, i guess time for a new pc or something" then i shut off the one offending addon and was at 60fps. If you shut them off and are fine then it's a process of elimination to figure out the one that's no good.

    steam_sig.png
    Kai_SanXerink
  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    Wow, I got a baller cloth belt legendary for my Priest. http://www.wowhead.com/item=132445/almaiesh-the-cord-of-hope its really really good for the holy word buffs. Also it pushed my item level to almost 830. So stoked still. :D

    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
    Jimbocrimsoncoyote
  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    Crayon wrote: »
    So, I finished 4 world quests and have all check bars, but it's not giving me a place to turn in for the reward. Any ideas? Or can you only get the rewards from doing one zone a day, because earlier I did another zone and got the quest giver and reward just fine.

    When I completed my Suramar World Quest set, I had to turn it in at the Thalryssa chick at the center of Suramar. I anticipate it is a similar deal for the other zones, but I'm happy to be corrected.

    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    Yeah just talk to the faction quartermasters to turn them in. You actually get a little quest in your log saying to, but it's easy to miss it cuz there's no popup or anything.

    liEt3nH.png
    EnclaveofGnomescrimsoncoyoteXerink
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    One of our guild's monks got a second legendary today. Out of three total in the guild. The other one also went to a monk.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    We haven't yet reinvited him to the guild.

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  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Dude better get those class hall upgrades rolling then.

    Where have they been getting these legendary drops anyway? From random mob drops at 110 in dungeons, or from those bags you can get from I think the Suramar quests? I know where they can come from, but I am wondering where people are actually getting them currently.

    Kai_San on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Two came from world cache, the one today from a mythic dungeon boss.

  • BeastehBeasteh THAT WOULD NOT KILL DRACULARegistered User regular
    I got my legendary ring (Shard of the Exodar) from Xavius in Darkheart Thicket Mythic

    I've seen other people get them from emissary chests and I'm guessing they will be drops in raids/mythic+

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    It seems like Highmountain is the meh zone. Doing that last.

    It looks like a boring tribal war.

    Krathoon on
    TheBlackWinddanx
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Got brokenly epic achievement tonight, replaced my last sub-840 item. Sitting at 847 now.

    Dhalphir on
    TheBlackWindcrimsoncoyote
  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    It seems like Highmountain is the meh zone. Doing that last.

    It looks like a boring tribal war.

    It's entirely subjective but yeah I've done the loremaster achieves for all but that one...I just can't build up the motivation yet.

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    It seems like Highmountain is the meh zone. Doing that last.

    It looks like a boring tribal war.

    Well yes and no but I feel It was the last zone looked at of the bunch

    I have to do loremaster of classic wow still and well I get bored just going in and barely trying and wiping out the area going back to turn in and repeat
    I should stop rolling rogues to pull it off though

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    So that Legion app is neat, except for the fact that the one on my iPad keeps telling me (when I close it) that my class hall order advancement is finished. It actually has 2 days to go. The Android app hasn't been doing that.

    edit: I disabled notifications on it for now/

    SteevL on
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Highmountain is deceptive. You think it's just a boring ole "Rally the tribes" questline...
    Oh wait, one of them has made a deal with the Legion, but you get some gym-bros who join you! And then at the very end.... Wrathion has some competition

    BrainleechTryCatcherTransporter
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    highmountain felt reeeealll generic compared to the other zones; there's a lot of running around in same-y environments, which I guess is a criticism that applies to other zones but at least val'sharah is prettier than boring caves. The verticality of the environments can also be frustrating.

    the big totemcity is a cool idea and I wish more time was spent there, but mostly you just go back to turn a couple quests in.

    I did highmountain first on my hunter, just to get it out of the way. I might go quickly knock out the main storyline on my paladin before going back to aszuna, just to have it out of the way.

    NREqxl5.jpg
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I really don't get one thing in legion
    Lord Jorach Ravenholt
    Where were you when Wrathion took over your house and job? why do you act so cool about running a guild of killers when someone took your guild over and ran it for a certain reason

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Highmountain is deceptive. You think it's just a boring ole "Rally the tribes" questline...
    Oh wait, one of them has made a deal with the Legion, but you get some gym-bros who join you! And then at the very end.... Wrathion has some competition
    Which also serves to prove that being a dick isn't something that's inherent to being a black dragon. It's just Wrathion.

    BrainleechEnclaveofGnomesPMAversSmrtnikTryCatcherXerinkTransporter
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    Been away from the game since 2010, hopped back in with old guildies for Legion.

    Leveling an Enhancement Shaman, which has been pretty fun! He's 83 now, which is nice.

    What's less nice is getting a very stark reminder that Stonecore is still one of the worst dungeons in the game.

    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    There are far worse dungeons than stonecore
    Some are unfun some are just brutal to do

  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    I haven't done any forsaken questing. Is living an eternal parody of life fulfilling enough that you'd want to thrust that torture on your friends and family? Or is living jawless liberating in a way that's just extremely difficult to describe?

    My theory is that they aren't quite as free-willed as they think. Most Forsaken seem to share a fanatical devotion to their Queen, which seems like a lite version of the hold the Lich King has over the Scourge. They want what she wants. She wants to live, so the Forsaken want to live. They live for her. And they adopt the same bitter contempt toward the living as she has.

    MSL59.jpg
    italianranma
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    Been away from the game since 2010, hopped back in with old guildies for Legion.

    Leveling an Enhancement Shaman, which has been pretty fun! He's 83 now, which is nice.

    What's less nice is getting a very stark reminder that Stonecore is still one of the worst dungeons in the game.

    Yes, but you get to roflstomp it while farming the mount, later.

    Honestly, the dungeon isn't that bad except for the cave part with the wandering pats.

    crimsoncoyote
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Also, the app is a Godsend for me, since it's been taking ages to get my kids to sleep lately. So if I have less than an hour of time before bed, I don't have to login to get some of the "maintenance" stuff done.

    Or, like last night, when I fell asleep putting the kids to bed, I still made progress.

    crimsoncoyote
  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Dude better get those class hall upgrades rolling then.

    Where have they been getting these legendary drops anyway? From random mob drops at 110 in dungeons, or from those bags you can get from I think the Suramar quests? I know where they can come from, but I am wondering where people are actually getting them currently.

    I got mine from a normal halls of Valor run, from Fenryr. Was running a friend through normal dungeons trying to get his ilevel higher to get into heroics.

    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
    crimsoncoyote
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    I haven't done any forsaken questing. Is living an eternal parody of life fulfilling enough that you'd want to thrust that torture on your friends and family? Or is living jawless liberating in a way that's just extremely difficult to describe?

    My theory is that they aren't quite as free-willed as they think. Most Forsaken seem to share a fanatical devotion to their Queen, which seems like a lite version of the hold the Lich King has over the Scourge. They want what she wants. She wants to live, so the Forsaken want to live. They live for her. And they adopt the same bitter contempt toward the living as she has.

    Or that comes from being Undead, and, I dunno, the fact that most things want to live?

    EnclaveofGnomes
This discussion has been closed.