Versatility is the best stat for a lot of specs or at least extremely competitive, plus you get free damage reduction. idk.
multistrike was boring too, and also had problems where for non-dps, it was an extremely variable stat depending on how blizzard decided to implement it. Was total bullshit for tanks.
I find it hard to believe an ilvl +30 item is still not worth it if it doesnt have your number 1 secondary stat on it; if the stat weights are that far off they need to rebalance
I had the 860 helm off the dragon world boss that's haste/mastery on my fire mage. Getting a 835 helm with a chunk of crit on it took me from around 190k simulated DPS to around 210k simulated
I got a trinket from withered Jim that was all secondary stats at like 800, I figured maybe dps spec? I dunno I like the procs my current trinkets give me.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm a dps cloth int caster. If you want to force it down our throats do it on PvP gear where you actually might use the defensive half of it.
Yes I did get 4 drops including my mythic chest yesterday all with massive amounts of versatility, how did you guess?
But everyone needs the defensive part of it.
not all damage is avoidable. Any damage reduction is useful just maybe not to the deeps numbers.
Almost every boss in every dungeon and raid in Legion does unavoidable groupwide/raidwide damage, so the defensive part is surely not going to waste. Especially if you're trying to push higher end Mythic+ dungeons.
In fact, from a healing perspective, I'd go so far as to say the defensive part is AT LEAST as important as the offensive part.
I'm a dps cloth int caster. If you want to force it down our throats do it on PvP gear where you actually might use the defensive half of it.
Yes I did get 4 drops including my mythic chest yesterday all with massive amounts of versatility, how did you guess?
But everyone needs the defensive part of it.
not all damage is avoidable. Any damage reduction is useful just maybe not to the deeps numbers.
Almost every boss in every dungeon and raid in Legion does unavoidable groupwide/raidwide damage, so the defensive part is surely not going to waste. Especially if you're trying to push higher end Mythic+ dungeons.
In fact, from a healing perspective, I'd go so far as to say the defensive part is AT LEAST as important as the offensive part.
DPS of dead is 0%...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I got a trinket from withered Jim that was all secondary stats at like 800, I figured maybe dps spec? I dunno I like the procs my current trinkets give me.
I think I got this too, but mine warforged to 865 or so woooo. Replaced my Su'esh trinket with it as the raw stats are better for Holy Priestin' than the damage buff from that one. Although it was 850 with a socket too. Disc for questing and Holy for dungeons has been working very well. Even PvPd with Disc and did okay.
I got a trinket from withered Jim that was all secondary stats at like 800, I figured maybe dps spec? I dunno I like the procs my current trinkets give me.
I think I got this too, but mine warforged to 865 or so woooo. Replaced my Su'esh trinket with it as the raw stats are better for Holy Priestin' than the damage buff from that one. Although it was 850 with a socket too. Disc for questing and Holy for dungeons has been working very well. Even PvPd with Disc and did okay.
Mine was up there like 860.
Also my chest gave me a new holy relic at like 865. So now I'm finally 845 overall I level.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I also think the worst part of multistrike was how it was basically crit version 2.0. And they both existed simultaneously. Could create an enormous variance of damage from a single hit.
0
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
I still can't believe that they nixed multi-strike, an actually fun stat, and kept versatility.
I'd sort of like stats that add AOE or a DOT as a percentage of damage done.
I think there was going to be an AOE stat in WoD and it was impossible to balance.
Something adding a DOT would be good though. I think that is definitely interesting and would be unique. The only issue is it really wouldn't work with actual dots, making its balance odd with certain classes. And it seems like EVERY class has like one dot at least.
Well, there would be two ways to have it affect DOTs. The first is to just increase the power of the DOT, the second is to have the damage appear up front.
To further explain the second case, say you have 20% (stat). If you cast a regular spell, it adds a DOT that does 20% of the damage of the spell over the next 10 seconds. If you cast a DOT, it does 10% of what the DOT would do over its duration up front, and then after ten seconds it does 10% of what the DOT would do over its full duration after if the DOT was not dispelled. Or something like that. With values tweaked appropriately to make it useful but not overpowered.
It'd increase the DOT power of non-DOT spells and increase the burst of DOT spells if the player could time it well.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Multistrike had a unique impact on how on-cast/use effects were evaluated.
Unfortunately, it had a lot of weird problems, with necessarily non-intuitive solutions.
I don't think it's useful to only look at the end result and call it boring, though. "It was just crit with different combat text presentation" is a criticism that could apply to lots of things, including crit itself compared to INT.
Also, I'm totally on board with the idea that some secondary stats could be more valuable than pure INT--I think that adds interesting tension to gearing decisions.
"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
Fuck you very much Blizzard for the 4th Hungering claw pet WQ in a row.
Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Seems like Blizzard has realized how dumb the warrior changes were. Last PTR patch unnerfs Shield Slam and actually nerfs Ignore Pain (lowering the maximum absorb amount by 30% or so). I guess they realized fixing the actual problem made more sense after all. Wish they would have realized that before they hotfixed all the changes in to live.
So, I've gotten myself to ilvl 833, and I've run out of solo stuff to do. What can I do to get into some Mythic runs with you guys? I'm generally only on one day a week (Wednesday nights, two little kids are at fault!).
Are you alliance or horde? I'm 837/838 (arcane/frost) mage w/ alliance and ive been looking to get into a mythic.
Add Gremlidin#1734 and i'll see if i can be around tomorrow night. What time zone are you in?
Any other alliance folks in?
I'm in if you guys are still looking resto/enhance shaman , thirdedition#1766 eastern time zone.
People I see are reporting the absorb rate on IP somehow got nerfed more then 33%
It's possible they thought it was just going to effect the max effect at 60 rage, but it seems like a 33% nerf across the board.
Edit: It's actually not supposed to do that so while it was a 33% nerf, apparently blizzard intended to reduce the maximum possible stacking of IP by 33%. They apparently fixed it and now giving the same amount per cast as before the nerf. Huzzah! It did seem tricky tanking some mythic+ yesterday.
So, I've gotten myself to ilvl 833, and I've run out of solo stuff to do. What can I do to get into some Mythic runs with you guys? I'm generally only on one day a week (Wednesday nights, two little kids are at fault!).
Are you alliance or horde? I'm 837/838 (arcane/frost) mage w/ alliance and ive been looking to get into a mythic.
Add Gremlidin#1734 and i'll see if i can be around tomorrow night. What time zone are you in?
Any other alliance folks in?
I'm in if you guys are still looking resto/enhance shaman , thirdedition#1766 eastern time zone.
I'm not going to be able to get on until 7:30-8 est, as a heads up. Will add both of you when i get home, though
Edit: if you guys get a group together, don't wait on me, though. i might have wedding stuff to take care of this evening.
Similar to the secondary stat discussion, trinkets are an interesting beast too.
I had an 830 trinket and an 845 trinket with similar secondary stats and similar on-use DR/EHP (granted, one was better than the other since it was guaranteed DR). I got an 870 trinket from my Keystone chest this week and promptly replaced the 845.
Only way I'm going to ditch that 830 is if I get the upgraded version of it :P
I finally got Brokenly Epic achievement today. What was holding me back were a pair of low trinkets, 830 blues. My mythic+ chest in my HQ gave me an 855 version of Bottled Hurricane, and this morning I ran Arcway and got an 840 Chrono Shard.
As a holy paladin, being told that Haste is our worst stat (having access to multiple instant heals), I still find it useful to have. My lowest secondary is Versatility, though according to IcyVeins, it should be right after crit in terms of priority. The problem with versatility is it really scales so poorly. You need to stack a lot of versatility to get anything significant out of it. Sure, 6-7% damage reduction is probably better than the 6-7% healing and damage throughput I'd be capable of off the same stat, but I'm already less squishy than most healer classes (often times second highest health next to the tanks, even against Warrior/DH DPS) and I can make up that healing by stacking more crit and haste.
PSN: TheArcadeBear
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+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
People I see are reporting the absorb rate on IP somehow got nerfed more then 33%
It's possible they thought it was just going to effect the max effect at 60 rage, but it seems like a 33% nerf across the board.
Edit: It's actually not supposed to do that so while it was a 33% nerf, apparently blizzard intended to reduce the maximum possible stacking of IP by 33%. They apparently fixed it and now giving the same amount per cast as before the nerf. Huzzah! It did seem tricky tanking some mythic+ yesterday.
Uh, what? How often is IP stacking to its max? It can't be doing that very often while tanking hard content. What's the point of nerfing that?
Today in LFR i learned that people are running a addon that auto-checks you when you get a drop to see if it's an upgrade while linking all of the people who could use said upgrade.
I don't know why it annoyed me as much as it did though nobody said anything when i disenchanted my drops.
Today in LFR i learned that people are running a addon that auto-checks you when you get a drop to see if it's an upgrade while linking all of the people who could use said upgrade.
I don't know why it annoyed me as much as it did though nobody said anything when i disenchanted my drops.
As in, it checks if it's an upgrade for me, then tells me if someone else in the group could use it instead?
Or it tells me that someone else in the group doesn't need something, by its definitions?
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
It checks you and then calls out in raid that you "Don't need the drop." because it's not a Item level upgrade. And then it lists the people who it would be a item level upgrade for.
It announces to chat when someone gets gear that isn't an upgrade for them, then lists who it is an upgrade for. It attempts to facilitate trading worthless loot to bring the entire raid up.
It announces to chat when someone gets a gear upgrade that isn't for them, then lists who it is an upgrade for. It attempts to facilitate trading worthless loot to bring the entire raid up.
So, I could see using that in an organized raid as a tool for the leader to decide who could best use a piece of gear. Using that in LFR is a shitty thing though. It's passive-aggressively calling the person out as selfish for getting a loot drop if they don't give it up.
It's none of their business what I do with any drops I get. I'm betting we'll see a small amount of drama for it when stuff Titanforges.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
So, I've gotten myself to ilvl 833, and I've run out of solo stuff to do. What can I do to get into some Mythic runs with you guys? I'm generally only on one day a week (Wednesday nights, two little kids are at fault!).
Are you alliance or horde? I'm 837/838 (arcane/frost) mage w/ alliance and ive been looking to get into a mythic.
Add Gremlidin#1734 and i'll see if i can be around tomorrow night. What time zone are you in?
Any other alliance folks in?
I'm in if you guys are still looking resto/enhance shaman , thirdedition#1766 eastern time zone.
I'm not going to be able to get on until 7:30-8 est, as a heads up. Will add both of you when i get home, though
Edit: if you guys get a group together, don't wait on me, though. i might have wedding stuff to take care of this evening.
I sent invites to the both of you - doing WQs and such now.
It announces to chat when someone gets a gear upgrade that isn't for them, then lists who it is an upgrade for. It attempts to facilitate trading worthless loot to bring the entire raid up.
So, I could see using that in an organized raid as a tool for the leader to decide who could best use a piece of gear. Using that in LFR is a shitty thing though. It's passive-aggressively calling the person out as selfish for getting a loot drop if they don't give it up.
It's none of their business what I do with any drops I get. I'm betting we'll see a small amount of drama for it when stuff Titanforges.
I've seen it a lot in queue for heroics, and it's never once been a thing. People ask if you're going to use a thing, you say "yes" and then they're like "cool."
Today in LFR i learned that people are running a addon that auto-checks you when you get a drop to see if it's an upgrade while linking all of the people who could use said upgrade.
I don't know why it annoyed me as much as it did though nobody said anything when i disenchanted my drops.
I love that addon. Instead of having to inspect everyone to see if they need the gear I just got, the addon takes care of it for me, because people are inexplicably afraid to speak up and just ask for gear.
It should be part of the base UI as far as I'm concerned.
Kind of a selfish dick move to disenchant gear if someone could use it.
I saw that addon in use last week in LFR, and it seemed to be being ignored. I wasnt about to ask someone if i could have their drop, it seemed rude. From this week on im going to be saying at each boss "paying 500g for traded upgrades". Seems silly for someone to just vendor something for next to nothing if i can use it and am happy to pay.
Evermourn on
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited October 2016
Well, unless they're an enchanter, it's literally worthless to them if it's not an upgrade. And if they are an enchanter, I believe chaos crystals are worth just under 1500g at the moment.
Tried fiddling with Disc frames for a while, having an annoying time getting them set up. It's been ages since I last did a UI overhaul; I guess I just kind of assumed that you'd have more flexibility now. What I wanted was to surround the healthbars of people with my Atonement with a thin gold band. With Healbot, I could setup a custom debuff and turn the entire bar gold when it's on. Not ideal because there's no countdown/indicator of low duration. If I ditched Healbot and used a combination of SUF and Clique, I could have a solid square show up on a character bar, and it would have the clock fade duration tracking, but be kinda ugly and get in the way.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
ElvUI might be able to do something like that, but I haven't tried - I use the standard small square in the corner for buff tracking. It's plenty noticeable, are you absolutely married to the idea of the gold outline?
Posts
multistrike was boring too, and also had problems where for non-dps, it was an extremely variable stat depending on how blizzard decided to implement it. Was total bullshit for tanks.
I had the 860 helm off the dragon world boss that's haste/mastery on my fire mage. Getting a 835 helm with a chunk of crit on it took me from around 190k simulated DPS to around 210k simulated
pleasepaypreacher.net
Almost every boss in every dungeon and raid in Legion does unavoidable groupwide/raidwide damage, so the defensive part is surely not going to waste. Especially if you're trying to push higher end Mythic+ dungeons.
In fact, from a healing perspective, I'd go so far as to say the defensive part is AT LEAST as important as the offensive part.
DPS of dead is 0%...
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think I got this too, but mine warforged to 865 or so woooo. Replaced my Su'esh trinket with it as the raw stats are better for Holy Priestin' than the damage buff from that one. Although it was 850 with a socket too. Disc for questing and Holy for dungeons has been working very well. Even PvPd with Disc and did okay.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OLcAGbXhWIVcl5IziVpG0eKFJS3xi_Sac9kYMkRFvD8/edit?usp=sharing
Mine was up there like 860.
Also my chest gave me a new holy relic at like 865. So now I'm finally 845 overall I level.
pleasepaypreacher.net
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Well, there would be two ways to have it affect DOTs. The first is to just increase the power of the DOT, the second is to have the damage appear up front.
To further explain the second case, say you have 20% (stat). If you cast a regular spell, it adds a DOT that does 20% of the damage of the spell over the next 10 seconds. If you cast a DOT, it does 10% of what the DOT would do over its duration up front, and then after ten seconds it does 10% of what the DOT would do over its full duration after if the DOT was not dispelled. Or something like that. With values tweaked appropriately to make it useful but not overpowered.
It'd increase the DOT power of non-DOT spells and increase the burst of DOT spells if the player could time it well.
Unfortunately, it had a lot of weird problems, with necessarily non-intuitive solutions.
I don't think it's useful to only look at the end result and call it boring, though. "It was just crit with different combat text presentation" is a criticism that could apply to lots of things, including crit itself compared to INT.
Also, I'm totally on board with the idea that some secondary stats could be more valuable than pure INT--I think that adds interesting tension to gearing decisions.
Now if only the wisp in a bottle worked like it did on Beta *maniacal cackle*
I'm in if you guys are still looking resto/enhance shaman , thirdedition#1766 eastern time zone.
It's possible they thought it was just going to effect the max effect at 60 rage, but it seems like a 33% nerf across the board.
Edit: It's actually not supposed to do that so while it was a 33% nerf, apparently blizzard intended to reduce the maximum possible stacking of IP by 33%. They apparently fixed it and now giving the same amount per cast as before the nerf. Huzzah! It did seem tricky tanking some mythic+ yesterday.
I'm not going to be able to get on until 7:30-8 est, as a heads up. Will add both of you when i get home, though
Edit: if you guys get a group together, don't wait on me, though. i might have wedding stuff to take care of this evening.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I had an 830 trinket and an 845 trinket with similar secondary stats and similar on-use DR/EHP (granted, one was better than the other since it was guaranteed DR). I got an 870 trinket from my Keystone chest this week and promptly replaced the 845.
Only way I'm going to ditch that 830 is if I get the upgraded version of it :P
As a holy paladin, being told that Haste is our worst stat (having access to multiple instant heals), I still find it useful to have. My lowest secondary is Versatility, though according to IcyVeins, it should be right after crit in terms of priority. The problem with versatility is it really scales so poorly. You need to stack a lot of versatility to get anything significant out of it. Sure, 6-7% damage reduction is probably better than the 6-7% healing and damage throughput I'd be capable of off the same stat, but I'm already less squishy than most healer classes (often times second highest health next to the tanks, even against Warrior/DH DPS) and I can make up that healing by stacking more crit and haste.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Uh, what? How often is IP stacking to its max? It can't be doing that very often while tanking hard content. What's the point of nerfing that?
I don't know why it annoyed me as much as it did though nobody said anything when i disenchanted my drops.
As in, it checks if it's an upgrade for me, then tells me if someone else in the group could use it instead?
Or it tells me that someone else in the group doesn't need something, by its definitions?
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
So, I could see using that in an organized raid as a tool for the leader to decide who could best use a piece of gear. Using that in LFR is a shitty thing though. It's passive-aggressively calling the person out as selfish for getting a loot drop if they don't give it up.
It's none of their business what I do with any drops I get. I'm betting we'll see a small amount of drama for it when stuff Titanforges.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I sent invites to the both of you - doing WQs and such now.
I've seen it a lot in queue for heroics, and it's never once been a thing. People ask if you're going to use a thing, you say "yes" and then they're like "cool."
I love that addon. Instead of having to inspect everyone to see if they need the gear I just got, the addon takes care of it for me, because people are inexplicably afraid to speak up and just ask for gear.
It should be part of the base UI as far as I'm concerned.
Kind of a selfish dick move to disenchant gear if someone could use it.
Considering every freaking world quest epic drop wants to disenchant into a leylight shard
I mean, you're keeping it because it benefits you. That's literally the definition of selfish.
I guess it's ultimately your gear to do with what you will. Chaos crystals are valuable.
Would Grid do what I want? Would Vuhdo?
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Origin: ShogunGunshow