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Cha-ching, it's the [Financial Literacy] thread

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Posts

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

  • asurasur Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    You can, and should have a portion, in international funds, but there isn't a realistic alternative for your entire portfolio for US investors than the US market.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited March 12
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
  • neverreallyneverreally Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

  • MartyMarty Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Real estate, but being a landlord sucks.

    Bonds, but the returns are likely to be poor.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

    ...investing in businesses is what stock is?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

    ...investing in businesses is what stock is?

    I think he means like what private equity does.

    If anyone posting in this thread can afford to just buy up Walgreens, please let me know. I have some suggestions

  • BowenBowen Sup? Registered User regular
    So I guess the question is is there a better way to invest in outside US stuff besides VXUS? Can I open a brokerage on another platform?

    As it stands my 401k is extremely limited on what I can do to stymie the losses. It's basically just S&P and federal bonds at varying percents, which doesn't really help me if it's all in one country.

  • neverreallyneverreally Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

    ...investing in businesses is what stock is?

    I think he means like what private equity does.

    Yea there are ways for individuals to invest in private equity groups. I also meant literally starting/buying or investing in a small business. Not a giant corp, but something local to you that generates income. Obviously not something most people can afford. Well, maybe most people with investments could afford to invest in a food truck.

  • useruser Registered User regular
    edited March 12
    moniker wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

    ...investing in businesses is what stock is?

    is it? beyond the initial IPO?

    user on
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    The bigger question is do you believe in the long term viability of the market or whatever part of it you're investing in

    What'ss a realistic alternative investment option? Genuinely asking.

    Assets like real estate (could be in another country or a fund that invests in them). Precious metals. Businesses.

    ...investing in businesses is what stock is?

    I think he means like what private equity does.

    If anyone posting in this thread can afford to just buy up Walgreens, please let me know. I have some suggestions

    Technically private equity means far more than just the leveraged buyouts people usually think of. It's really any sort of non-publicly available investment, so it includes just investing in privately held companies too. On occasion a few local venues have put the call out for people interested in investing in their businesses but it's not common (and in both instances I directly was aware of not great given the timing shortly before the pandemic).

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    So I currently have all of my IRAs (rolled over from past 401ks) in VTSAX. I'm considering switching over entirely to VTWAX to get market cap adjusted international exposure, at least for the next few years of uncertainty in the states. Thoughts?

  • asurasur Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    So I currently have all of my IRAs (rolled over from past 401ks) in VTSAX. I'm considering switching over entirely to VTWAX to get market cap adjusted international exposure, at least for the next few years of uncertainty in the states. Thoughts?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with VTWAX. Its a little over 30% international which I'm assuming is the correct market cap weight based on the index it's following. That's on the high side for many recommendations, but is inline with what Vanguard recommends.

    I think the issue is with the second part of your statement "at least for the next few years". That's market timing. Asset allocation should be decided and then only impacted by your age and retirement goals which determines a bond allocation. This shouldnt be something where the US falters and you switch to international and then back when the US regains it's position. That's not to say you can't rethink your allocation, but it should be for the long term. Maybe the current US government does have you rethinking US dominance and stability and since you're presumably all US you want to switch to a more diversified portfolio with international. But you shouldn't be thinking, eh when the next Democrat is in I'm gonna switch back. The instability and risk is still there.

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited March 13
    asur wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    So I currently have all of my IRAs (rolled over from past 401ks) in VTSAX. I'm considering switching over entirely to VTWAX to get market cap adjusted international exposure, at least for the next few years of uncertainty in the states. Thoughts?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with VTWAX. Its a little over 30% international which I'm assuming is the correct market cap weight based on the index it's following. That's on the high side for many recommendations, but is inline with what Vanguard recommends.

    I think the issue is with the second part of your statement "at least for the next few years". That's market timing. Asset allocation should be decided and then only impacted by your age and retirement goals which determines a bond allocation. This shouldnt be something where the US falters and you switch to international and then back when the US regains it's position. That's not to say you can't rethink your allocation, but it should be for the long term. Maybe the current US government does have you rethinking US dominance and stability and since you're presumably all US you want to switch to a more diversified portfolio with international. But you shouldn't be thinking, eh when the next Democrat is in I'm gonna switch back. The instability and risk is still there.

    I wouldn't say that's timing the market. Timing the market is deciding to buy or not to buy. Either way, domestic equities [to me] used to be medium risk, high reward, and international equities were medium risk, medium reward. With that profile shifting domestic equities into higher risk, it makes international a little more appealing for diversification. All I meant was that I will periodically evaluate my take on domestic equities' risk profile. Not sure why that would be controversial. Or maybe I just have a bit higher risk tolerance than you do. I see this more similar to a decision to forgo a percentage of bond allocation at my age and invest entirely within equities.

    Simpsonia on
  • asurasur Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    asur wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    So I currently have all of my IRAs (rolled over from past 401ks) in VTSAX. I'm considering switching over entirely to VTWAX to get market cap adjusted international exposure, at least for the next few years of uncertainty in the states. Thoughts?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with VTWAX. Its a little over 30% international which I'm assuming is the correct market cap weight based on the index it's following. That's on the high side for many recommendations, but is inline with what Vanguard recommends.

    I think the issue is with the second part of your statement "at least for the next few years". That's market timing. Asset allocation should be decided and then only impacted by your age and retirement goals which determines a bond allocation. This shouldnt be something where the US falters and you switch to international and then back when the US regains it's position. That's not to say you can't rethink your allocation, but it should be for the long term. Maybe the current US government does have you rethinking US dominance and stability and since you're presumably all US you want to switch to a more diversified portfolio with international. But you shouldn't be thinking, eh when the next Democrat is in I'm gonna switch back. The instability and risk is still there.

    I wouldn't say that's timing the market. Timing the market is deciding to buy or not to buy. Either way, domestic equities [to me] used to be medium risk, high reward, and international equities were medium risk, medium reward. With that profile shifting domestic equities into higher risk, it makes international a little more appealing for diversification. All I meant was that I will periodically evaluate my take on domestic equities' risk profile. Not sure why that would be controversial. Or maybe I just have a bit higher risk tolerance than you do. I see this more similar to a decision to forgo a percentage of bond allocation at my age and invest entirely within equities.

    You are deciding to buy or not buy. Also market timing is changing your asset allocation based on the market and/or current events which is exactly what you're doing. Its just more common to go from cash to something or vice versa. The risk in US equities hasn't changed, it's just a specific risk that was always there, has materialized.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    asur wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    asur wrote: »
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    So I currently have all of my IRAs (rolled over from past 401ks) in VTSAX. I'm considering switching over entirely to VTWAX to get market cap adjusted international exposure, at least for the next few years of uncertainty in the states. Thoughts?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with VTWAX. Its a little over 30% international which I'm assuming is the correct market cap weight based on the index it's following. That's on the high side for many recommendations, but is inline with what Vanguard recommends.

    I think the issue is with the second part of your statement "at least for the next few years". That's market timing. Asset allocation should be decided and then only impacted by your age and retirement goals which determines a bond allocation. This shouldnt be something where the US falters and you switch to international and then back when the US regains it's position. That's not to say you can't rethink your allocation, but it should be for the long term. Maybe the current US government does have you rethinking US dominance and stability and since you're presumably all US you want to switch to a more diversified portfolio with international. But you shouldn't be thinking, eh when the next Democrat is in I'm gonna switch back. The instability and risk is still there.

    I wouldn't say that's timing the market. Timing the market is deciding to buy or not to buy. Either way, domestic equities [to me] used to be medium risk, high reward, and international equities were medium risk, medium reward. With that profile shifting domestic equities into higher risk, it makes international a little more appealing for diversification. All I meant was that I will periodically evaluate my take on domestic equities' risk profile. Not sure why that would be controversial. Or maybe I just have a bit higher risk tolerance than you do. I see this more similar to a decision to forgo a percentage of bond allocation at my age and invest entirely within equities.

    You are deciding to buy or not buy. Also market timing is changing your asset allocation based on the market and/or current events which is exactly what you're doing. Its just more common to go from cash to something or vice versa. The risk in US equities hasn't changed, it's just a specific risk that was always there, has materialized.

    Gonna disagree with you there.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    When I pay extra in taxes, should I sell stocks and funds and such that I've lost money on or that I've gained money on

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    I wouldn't let the tax implications be a big decider in any investments I sell (other than maybe ST vs LT gains). But, all else being equal: Sell at a loss you get to write it off. If you're carrying forward losses from past years you could factor that in to your decisions.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    The classic tax loss harvest is rebuying a correlated security that doesnt trigger the wash sale rules atter selling and writing off the loss

    So since I'm using the proceeds to pay my taxes, I can't take advantage of that at all, correct?

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • tosoraktosorak Registered User regular
    Correct, you need the money to spend (on taxes), you aren't trying to reinvest it. If you are equally bullish/bearish on two stocks, one with gains and one with losses, sell the one with losses. That'll help reduce your taxes next year.

    If you sell the one with gains, then next year you'll have a bigger tax bill, meaning you will have to... sell more stock to pay THAT bill.

  • TheClapTheClap Registered User regular
    The classic tax loss harvest is rebuying a correlated security that doesnt trigger the wash sale rules atter selling and writing off the loss

    This might be a painfully stupid question, but if I sold stock for a loss, moved those funds to a Roth and then repurchased those stocks within 30 days, is that loss harvestable?

  • asurasur Registered User regular
    TheClap wrote: »
    The classic tax loss harvest is rebuying a correlated security that doesnt trigger the wash sale rules atter selling and writing off the loss

    This might be a painfully stupid question, but if I sold stock for a loss, moved those funds to a Roth and then repurchased those stocks within 30 days, is that loss harvestable?

    The broker may not identify it, but according to the IRS in a ruling in 2008, yes this does trigger a wash sale and the loss is disallowed.

    Dependent on your risk tolerance, it's pretty easy to work around. You can go from total market to S&P500 or vice versa. Some people even advocate for just purchasing a different ETF following the same index though I do think that's very risky if you do get audited. I will note that the IRS has not really ruled on what 'substantially identical' means in terms of ETFs and Mutual Funds. I believe if it's actively managed then you're probably fine as different managers will manage differently, but in regards to following an index, it's not clear where the line is.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited March 20
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 20
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Man, they are really speed running the crash. I thought it'd be a a year or two before he ran it into the ground.

    (As a Canadian) I've been investing in a Tax Free Savings Account (TFSA), Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP), and contributing to my pension what they'll allow me at work (technically I think this ties into another RRSP, but given that the starting point is contributing 6% of my income and the company matching that at 9%, I figure I'm already ahead of the curve and then some).

    These weren't 'to the moon' investments, but we're talking 'up 15% over the past year, I'm pretty happy with that' kinds of numbers.

    Being down 1-3% in a matter of couple of weeks kind of sucks, but I know better than to try to time things, so much like with the early Covid days (the only period in the last 20 years that I had investments actually underwater, if temporarily), I'm just riding it out.

    I'm nowhere near 7 figures just yet, but with probably 15-20 years until retirement, I'm pretty pleased with where things are so far, since I'm also contributing towards a Canadian Pension Plan (CPP). A cursory google'ing indicates that it's not exactly a huge amount per month, and who knows what the next two decades will bring, but hopefully it adds up over time.

    Which brings us back to the statement from a few weeks ago... yeah, even as things are bouncing back upwards in my existing investments, I dunno how much damage the next 4 years are going to do, entirely beyond my control, but I'm guessing it'll be substantial.

    Edit: I'll note that I'm carrying effectively zero debt, am renting a reasonable apartment with my wife where we split the bills, live generally within my means, and while the RRSP's are out of reach until retirement (though I can borrow up to 25k towards a home down payment), the TFSA is something I strive not to touch, while also being emergency savings, which could see me through a year or two of hardship if necessary.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • TheClapTheClap Registered User regular
    asur wrote: »
    TheClap wrote: »
    The classic tax loss harvest is rebuying a correlated security that doesnt trigger the wash sale rules atter selling and writing off the loss

    This might be a painfully stupid question, but if I sold stock for a loss, moved those funds to a Roth and then repurchased those stocks within 30 days, is that loss harvestable?

    The broker may not identify it, but according to the IRS in a ruling in 2008, yes this does trigger a wash sale and the loss is disallowed.

    Dependent on your risk tolerance, it's pretty easy to work around. You can go from total market to S&P500 or vice versa. Some people even advocate for just purchasing a different ETF following the same index though I do think that's very risky if you do get audited. I will note that the IRS has not really ruled on what 'substantially identical' means in terms of ETFs and Mutual Funds. I believe if it's actively managed then you're probably fine as different managers will manage differently, but in regards to following an index, it's not clear where the line is.

    I went from Intel in a general brokerage account to Intel in a Roth. I was deep in the red and figured lets at least make this work for me...and apparently I didnt, oh well.

  • WrizzikWrizzik DelawareRegistered User regular
    Would you guys like me to start the Financial Thread at Coin Return or does someone want to add/update the OP and want to take it?

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    right but he's not talking about dollar cost averaging, he's talking about a lump sum injection. There is inherently going to be a timing question with that.

    'Dollar cost averaging' turned out to be the keywords to help me understand, yeah I might as well keep on with the regular contributions instead of choosing a good day to lump it.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I mean, there are times when a lump sum might be necessary. If you weren't planning on doing an IRA and then you do your taxes and realize you owe unless you drop a few grand into an IRA, well... At which point, the timeline between doing your taxes and April 15th might be tight enough that it doesn't really matter. But hopefully that doesn't happen too often

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  • tosoraktosorak Registered User regular
    My current real life example:

    About a year ago I got my deck replaced and got it financed with 1 year of 0% interest. BUT it must be paid off at the 1 year mark or all the deferred interest is added back into the total.

    My plan was to pay a little bit throughout the year, then pay off the remainder by selling some stock. The particular stock I sold today is down 8% from January 2025... but that's still up 30% from where it was a year ago in April 2024. I could've timed the market better but just being in the market turned out better than putting the money in a 1 yr CD or paying the deck off upfront.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    How not to time the market:
    My soon -to-retire officemate moved their funds from stocks to treasuries when the election happened because surely Trump will crash the economy.
    Post election bump happens, they go oh shit maybe not and I'm missing all this, move funds back.
    Trump starts announcing tariffs, market starts tanking again.

    steam_sig.png
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    The Redditor grind never stops. Time for him to try to make it up with options!

    Happiness is within reach!
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Gotta go for levers

  • BalooBaloo DetroitRegistered User regular
    Wrizzik wrote: »
    Would you guys like me to start the Financial Thread at Coin Return or does someone want to add/update the OP and want to take it?

    I can recreate my OP over there later tonight

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