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Cha-ching, it's the [Financial Literacy] thread

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Posts

  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    ETFs don't always have lower fees than corresponding mutual funds. Vanguard, for example, has their "Admiral Shares" funds with super duper low fees. Vanguard's own ETFs don't compete. Over the long haul, in a tax sheltered account like an IRA, you're probably better off having the money in the lowest fee thing possible.

    davidsdurionsthatassemblyguyfirewaterword
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    ETFs don't always have lower fees than corresponding mutual funds. Vanguard, for example, has their "Admiral Shares" funds with super duper low fees. Vanguard's own ETFs don't compete. Over the long haul, in a tax sheltered account like an IRA, you're probably better off having the money in the lowest fee thing possible.

    Yes, but admiral shares have a minimum investment - 3k for ETFs

  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    ETFs don't always have lower fees than corresponding mutual funds. Vanguard, for example, has their "Admiral Shares" funds with super duper low fees. Vanguard's own ETFs don't compete. Over the long haul, in a tax sheltered account like an IRA, you're probably better off having the money in the lowest fee thing possible.

    Vanguard ETFs have the same or lower fees than Admiral Shares in general. VOO is lower than VFIAX as is VTI compared to VTSAX.

    Smurph
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    PSA: got an email last night from Chase noting that the freedom credit card's terms are changing to require binding arbitration UNLESS you mail them a physical letter denying that change by early August.

    From Reddit:
    1ldeb5k5ldmg.png

    Also I, too, received the email. I'll read through it again and then get a opt-out together. Same for the wife's card

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    to be honest, I don't know of anyone that's had to sue their credit card company so I can't see binding arbitration being too big of a deal legal for anyone outside of that one time 10 years ago they got hit with a class action lawsuit

    Ladies.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    to be honest, I don't know of anyone that's had to sue their credit card company so I can't see binding arbitration being too big of a deal legal for anyone outside of that one time 10 years ago they got hit with a class action lawsuit

    We just had such a case ruled upon by the Supreme Court.
    The story of Home Depot is a tale of greed, grift, and civil procedure. It centers on a scheme that involved three companies: Home Depot, Citibank, and Carolina Water Systems Inc. Here’s how it allegedly worked. Representatives from Home Depot or CWS called homeowners and claimed that “contaminants” were found in nearby tap water. They urged homeowners to let them perform a test for “contaminants,” which was really just a test for water hardness; almost all tap water tested positive, even if it was perfectly safe. But CWS told homeowners the positive result proved their water was unsafe and required a $9,000 water purification system that other companies sell for $1,400. The company then told homeowners they had been approved for a Home Depot–branded Citibank credit card, which they could use to pay for the system with deferred interest.

    George Jackson got suckered into this alleged scam and, like many others, couldn’t afford to pay off the charges he put on the credit card to pay for the overpriced water purification system. A company representative allegedly told Jackson the Citibank card had zero interest for two years—but in fact, the interest rate jumped to 25.99 percent after one year. Jackson couldn’t afford to pay, so Citibank sued him in state court to collect the debt. Eventually, he secured the representation of consumer protection lawyers who filed a counterclaim against Citibank, as well as class-action claims against Home Depot and CWS on behalf of about 290 other homeowners targeted by the alleged scam. He claimed that the companies, working together, had violated North Carolina laws prohibiting unfair and deceptive trade practices.

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    ShadowhopeHeffling
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    A bit late, but earlier I'd complained about how much I owed in taxes and thinking SALT/etc for reasons.

    It didn't end up being SALT, but rather the withholding tables being fucked (combined with having sold some stock). Total amount paid didn't seem majorly out of whack or anything, just how much was actually withheld from my paycheck.

    Still, that was a hefty check to write, and then I had to pay another couple hundred on top of it because of an underpayment penalty *sigh*

    So anyway, I guess the takeaway is to completely ignore the W4 and try to figure out your withholding yourself. My state exemptions are still correct, and withholding the right amount, but Federal is playing politics too much.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    PSA: got an email last night from Chase noting that the freedom credit card's terms are changing to require binding arbitration UNLESS you mail them a physical letter denying that change by early August.

    And lo, their call center manager did weep

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    A bit late, but earlier I'd complained about how much I owed in taxes and thinking SALT/etc for reasons.

    It didn't end up being SALT, but rather the withholding tables being fucked (combined with having sold some stock). Total amount paid didn't seem majorly out of whack or anything, just how much was actually withheld from my paycheck.

    Still, that was a hefty check to write, and then I had to pay another couple hundred on top of it because of an underpayment penalty *sigh*

    So anyway, I guess the takeaway is to completely ignore the W4 and try to figure out your withholding yourself. My state exemptions are still correct, and withholding the right amount, but Federal is playing politics too much.

    I always have them take out the maximal amount, just for the insurance of always getting a refund. The number of nickels that I'm forgoing in interest by having a closer to exact withholdi is worth the peace of mind.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    A bit late, but earlier I'd complained about how much I owed in taxes and thinking SALT/etc for reasons.

    It didn't end up being SALT, but rather the withholding tables being fucked (combined with having sold some stock). Total amount paid didn't seem majorly out of whack or anything, just how much was actually withheld from my paycheck.

    Still, that was a hefty check to write, and then I had to pay another couple hundred on top of it because of an underpayment penalty *sigh*

    So anyway, I guess the takeaway is to completely ignore the W4 and try to figure out your withholding yourself. My state exemptions are still correct, and withholding the right amount, but Federal is playing politics too much.

    I always have them take out the maximal amount, just for the insurance of always getting a refund. The number of nickels that I'm forgoing in interest by having a closer to exact withholdi is worth the peace of mind.

    I'm having them take a maximal amount, and also going "take an extra $x per paycheck" and I'm still not 100% I won't owe?

    It's kinda silly.

    DaenrismonikerCauld
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    A bit late, but earlier I'd complained about how much I owed in taxes and thinking SALT/etc for reasons.

    It didn't end up being SALT, but rather the withholding tables being fucked (combined with having sold some stock). Total amount paid didn't seem majorly out of whack or anything, just how much was actually withheld from my paycheck.

    Still, that was a hefty check to write, and then I had to pay another couple hundred on top of it because of an underpayment penalty *sigh*

    So anyway, I guess the takeaway is to completely ignore the W4 and try to figure out your withholding yourself. My state exemptions are still correct, and withholding the right amount, but Federal is playing politics too much.

    I always have them take out the maximal amount, just for the insurance of always getting a refund. The number of nickels that I'm forgoing in interest by having a closer to exact withholdi is worth the peace of mind.

    I like having the peace of mind of more cash on hand for emergencies. On the off chance I mess up and owe enough to pay a fee, the fee is usual about equal to what I made from just having a high yield checking account where the extra cash was stored.

    I don't really get why people like to get the refund. I much prefer getting my monies now and just planning to have a slightly larger bill in April.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
    firewaterwordShadowhope
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    A bit late, but earlier I'd complained about how much I owed in taxes and thinking SALT/etc for reasons.

    It didn't end up being SALT, but rather the withholding tables being fucked (combined with having sold some stock). Total amount paid didn't seem majorly out of whack or anything, just how much was actually withheld from my paycheck.

    Still, that was a hefty check to write, and then I had to pay another couple hundred on top of it because of an underpayment penalty *sigh*

    So anyway, I guess the takeaway is to completely ignore the W4 and try to figure out your withholding yourself. My state exemptions are still correct, and withholding the right amount, but Federal is playing politics too much.

    I always have them take out the maximal amount, just for the insurance of always getting a refund. The number of nickels that I'm forgoing in interest by having a closer to exact withholdi is worth the peace of mind.

    I like having the peace of mind of more cash on hand for emergencies. On the off chance I mess up and owe enough to pay a fee, the fee is usual about equal to what I made from just having a high yield checking account where the extra cash was stored.

    I don't really get why people like to get the refund. I much prefer getting my monies now and just planning to have a slightly larger bill in April.

    Not having to plan a larger bill in April.

    Well, late February. Early March if I'm being lazy. I have a decent emergency fund, and I like to know it is actually the amount it says it is, rather than having an unknown obligation that I'll need to pay out every year. Especially since, again, the foregone interest I'd be getting, even in a high interest account, wouldn't even cover lunch. For me, not having to think about income tax at all throughout the year is easily worth a lost chili dog and fries.

    tynic
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    PSA: got an email last night from Chase noting that the freedom credit card's terms are changing to require binding arbitration UNLESS you mail them a physical letter denying that change by early August.

    And lo, their call center manager did weep

    Someone keep bumping this because I got the emails for both of my Chase cards and I still have to write and send the letters. Also if any of you have a form letter you used for the opt out, please let me konw.

    JragghenSimpsonia
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. Registered User regular
    I was curious about Personal Capital today, so I decided to sign-up just to poke around and see if it would meet my needs (feeling like maintaining my own stuff is taking too much of my time).

    One thing I didn't want to do out of the gate, and according to their Privacy/TOS was (optional), was provide credentials to any of my financial accounts until I was sure that it was a service I wanted to use.

    To my surprise, they mark the new account with a first use flag, where you can opt-out of a survey/questionnaire, but they have a dark pattern where-in you cannot get to the account (not to settings, or anything, meaning you effectively cannot cancel or 'remove' the account) unless you link at least one financial account.

    Fuck that.

  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    I was curious about Personal Capital today, so I decided to sign-up just to poke around and see if it would meet my needs (feeling like maintaining my own stuff is taking too much of my time).

    One thing I didn't want to do out of the gate, and according to their Privacy/TOS was (optional), was provide credentials to any of my financial accounts until I was sure that it was a service I wanted to use.

    To my surprise, they mark the new account with a first use flag, where you can opt-out of a survey/questionnaire, but they have a dark pattern where-in you cannot get to the account (not to settings, or anything, meaning you effectively cannot cancel or 'remove' the account) unless you link at least one financial account.

    Fuck that.

    I use mint. I am ok with giving them my credentials, not loving it, but ok. But I would give anything for a similar service that let me write my own filters/tag rules. Strings with wildcards. That’s all I really want.

    Mint is really pretty lacking for investments though. It works nice for budget stuff (tracking cards and checking accounts), but I haven’t seen any features for tracking investments vs indexes.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
    Daenris
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    I was curious about Personal Capital today, so I decided to sign-up just to poke around and see if it would meet my needs (feeling like maintaining my own stuff is taking too much of my time).

    One thing I didn't want to do out of the gate, and according to their Privacy/TOS was (optional), was provide credentials to any of my financial accounts until I was sure that it was a service I wanted to use.

    To my surprise, they mark the new account with a first use flag, where you can opt-out of a survey/questionnaire, but they have a dark pattern where-in you cannot get to the account (not to settings, or anything, meaning you effectively cannot cancel or 'remove' the account) unless you link at least one financial account.

    Fuck that.

    I use mint. I am ok with giving them my credentials, not loving it, but ok. But I would give anything for a similar service that let me write my own filters/tag rules. Strings with wildcards. That’s all I really want.

    Mint is really pretty lacking for investments though. It works nice for budget stuff (tracking cards and checking accounts), but I haven’t seen any features for tracking investments vs indexes.

    I knew that if I was going to use the service at it's full potential, I was going to eventually have to give the credentials. It's just that the dark pattern making it mandatory, when by their privacy terms suggest it is optional at first, is a big, big turn off.

    Jebus314
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    PSA: got an email last night from Chase noting that the freedom credit card's terms are changing to require binding arbitration UNLESS you mail them a physical letter denying that change by early August.

    And lo, their call center manager did weep

    Someone keep bumping this because I got the emails for both of my Chase cards and I still have to write and send the letters. Also if any of you have a form letter you used for the opt out, please let me konw.

    And jobs thread on SE++ linking here reminded me of thise and goddamn it, I still haven't mailed mine. Gonna write that up today when I get home.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Does anyone know if any website has a tool that allows me to put in X years of 401k balances, and it will give me my annualized rate of return for the period?

    I have a rolling 1yr, 3yr, and 5yr rate of return; but I'd like to see what the annualized return is for the entire life of the account (it's been open since ~2000).

  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    You’d have to enter all the contributions and their dates too. I don’t know of a website that does just that.

    Morningstar’s portfolio manager will compute the lifetime rate of return, but I’m not totally convinced it’s accurate, and to use it you also have to enter every single investment entry and exit price and date.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    I have that info, and I'm willing to do the work for it. Maybe I'll do some poking around to find the appropriate formula and brute force it in Excel

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Microsoft Money will calculate the lifetime rate of return on an investment account, and has been a free download every since Microsoft abandoned it 10 years ago or so.

    JragghenMugsleyJean
  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    Hey thread, I'm thinking of opening a Roth IRA through Vanguard to complement my Fidelity 401k. What's a good fund? I've set my 401k to about 80% index fund, 20% bonds.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Not sure about vanguard, but my primary investments in my Fidelity Roth are FXAIX (500 index fund, .015 expense ratio) and FSKAX (total market index, .015 expense ratio).

    I've got one of vanguard's 500 index in my 401k, but it's one of those "minimum investment" things to get the expense ratio I have.

    Also, thanks for making me look. My indices have outgrown my bonds to where I'm imbalanced again and should re-balance.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    The Vanguard target date funds are quite low fee, and then they rebalance the fund for you, shifting in an ever more conservative direction as the target date nears.

    jkylefultonMegaMan001
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    khain wrote: »
    Wealthfront eventually settles your money in a FDIC insured account. The key here is eventually and when I directly asked them they said it should happen quickly but we're unable to give a definite time. It's probably ok, but personally if I'm putting my money in a savings type account I want to know it's FDIC insured immediately.

    Glad I found this thread, I was just looking into this. I'm leaning towards CIT Bank for the 2.3% right now. They seem to be pretty highly rated and it's not too far off from Wealthfront without dealing with the risk. Even though my credit union has upped their rate to 1%, seems silly to leave money sitting on the table.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Also, thanks for making me look. My indices have outgrown my bonds to where I'm imbalanced again and should re-balance.

    Speaking of which, looking like I should be glad I did >_> I'm currently in between the recommendations (old one was basically your age should be your bond holdings), but newer stuff seems to recommend 10-20 below that, depending on how long you expect to live. So maybe I want to shift even HARDER to bonds, but my general rebalance just beat this past 1000+ point drop.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    I tend to be on the more aggressive end of these things, but based on how costs are increasing, if I had 30-40% bonds at my age, I would feel more nervous about not accumulating enough for retirement.

    As it stands, I'm at ~11% bonds; which is admittedly on the low end for my age.

    Jragghena5ehren
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited August 5
    Yeah, "your age in bonds" is an insanely conservative allocation unless you are very near retirement. I do 90/10, and 100/0 isn't crazy if you're in a Total Stock Market portfolio in the accumulation phase.

    I probably won't adjust to 80/20 or 70/30 until I'm pretty deep into my 40s or something changes with the expected return on bonds.

    a5ehren on
    monikerMarty81MugsleyVishNubSimpsoniaShadowhope
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    This can be a fun discussion.

    I heard it explained that your portfolio doubles every X years, depending on the Rule of 72 and your individual allocation. The most important (and most valuable) doubling is the last one prior to your retirement. The more conservative you make your portfolio, the longer it takes for that final doubling to occur.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Man I should probably take a look at this stuff sometime this year.

    I am contributing to my 401k, but I also just assume I will never be able to retire.

    Whippy wrote: »
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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Do any banks over sorting/tagging of money? I have a business account that my income comes into, but it's reported as 1 amount. I'd love to be able to section money into smaller pools or sub-accounts, for things like retirement funding, taxes, etc. Or do I just have to do all that outside of my bank account?

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    Do any banks over sorting/tagging of money? I have a business account that my income comes into, but it's reported as 1 amount. I'd love to be able to section money into smaller pools or sub-accounts, for things like retirement funding, taxes, etc. Or do I just have to do all that outside of my bank account?

    my bank i have a checking account and a savings account and just have an automatic transfer set up the day after payday to move $X to the savings account

    you can also set up direct deposit to go to multiple accounts

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Depending what you're specifically asking for, my bank lets me open essentially an infinite number of savings accounts, and I can setup auto transfers for them as needed. I currently have accounts for the following: Christmas gifts, computer hardware and games, housing expenses, Kids' 529 (their 529 accounts pull from this account on a schedule), yearly family subscriptions (e.g. Prime, Costco, etc.), Emergency Fund

    During tax season, my bank lists the incomes and outflows and interest for all of the accounts in one document, with an aggregate statement at the front.

    VishNubBullheadElvenshaeChanusTrajan45
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Mind if I ask which bank? I’m using suntrust right now and I asked them about that exact setup. They just looked at me funny asking why would I need more than 1.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited August 22
    CaptialOne 360 allows creation of multiple savings accounts whenever you want. There are a couple of signup bonuses if you're a new customer and fulfill some requirements as well.

    khain on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    khain wrote: »
    CaptialOne 360 allows creation of multiple savings accounts whenever you want.

    This is what I use.

    They used to be INGDirect

    Throbowen
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    I use, and have been very happy with, Ally and they let me make as many as I want.

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  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited September 11
    anyone have experience with algo portfolio management?

    I jumped into schwab's intelligent investment service earlier this year and while the returns have been pretty good (especially considering recent volatility) they keep an, in my opinion, unreasonable proportion of the portfolio in cash, even if you have your risk profile stepped up to "fuck it, yolo" levels of risk tolerance. I've asked them about it directly and their answer is pretty much that's just how it is. I'm also sure that it makes sound financial sense but cash is so boring.

    basically just looking for low fees and the ability to automatically tax loss harvest taxable accounts.

    firewaterword on
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  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    I don't have any taxable accounts, so the drag of the extra fees for the robo-advisor service would (almost certainly) negate any extra gains over my current portfolio.

    In general I'm somewhat skeptical of the guaranteed loss of the extra fees being offset by the potential savings of TLH unless you have a pretty big account, but I haven't ever run the numbers.

    Cauld
  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    Yeah one of the reasons I went with it is that the base level doesn't charge fees (that is, fees on top of the typical, and relatively low, etf expenses).

    They have an optional premium service but I don't really see the benefit of it since as far as I know it's just additional access to guidance.

    Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
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