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Posts

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Escalation
    Find the Truth reveals cards as you draw your opening hand, which makes it....significantly worse, I'd say

    of course, this is barring any Damon rulings which suggest it is possible to start playing a game of netrunner before a game of netrunner has started (which, frankly, is not outside the realm of possibility)
    Depends when "starts the game" is defined. Some might say it doesn't start until people are fully ready to play, have drawn opening hands and done any mulliganing. Which, if true, seems to be a very cool ability for Adam to have in choosing his directives.
    I would argue that the game starts when you agree to play, since shuffling and drawing your starting hands are part of the game structure

    we gonna be alright
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Shorty wrote: »
    Escalation
    Find the Truth reveals cards as you draw your opening hand, which makes it....significantly worse, I'd say

    of course, this is barring any Damon rulings which suggest it is possible to start playing a game of netrunner before a game of netrunner has started (which, frankly, is not outside the realm of possibility)

    Sources / citings? I was already talking about this with friends and it entirely comes down to when "the start of the game" actually is, since that's when you have your directives.

    ArcticLancer on
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Now I have to try and get Khan to work after Worlds...
    I'll be very curious, because I'm not convinced there's a situation where Khan will actually be the right choice. She seems to be overdesigned to not be Kate or as powerful as Kate became. She essentially IS Kate, but with a watered down ability made to be hugely specific, and no link, and less influence, in exchange for a 40 card deck. Her breakers aren't exactly efficient and are definitely not cheap to throw down, are based around a gimmick that works better playing London Library than Khan herself, and pretty much require you to already be winning to pan out. From the ground up she just seems like incredibly tepid design with numbers that are beyond safe.
    Anyway, prove me wrong, man. You know I want you to. But I'm not remotely convinced she's where she should have been. The Anarch breakers coming out alongside the birds is like salt in the wound. :P

    Getting Khan to work is likely going to be tough. I agree she looks under powered, and her breakers over costed. However the ability to derez code gates and sentries is powerful, and I can understand why they are being careful. I've got a few ideas and maybe it'll work in some match ups, but I'll review post worlds where I won't be playing Khan!

    ArcticLancer
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Escalation
    Find the Truth reveals cards as you draw your opening hand, which makes it....significantly worse, I'd say

    of course, this is barring any Damon rulings which suggest it is possible to start playing a game of netrunner before a game of netrunner has started (which, frankly, is not outside the realm of possibility)

    Sources / citings? I was already talking about this with friends and it entirely comes down to when "the start of the game" actually is, since that's when you have your directives.
    none, because they haven't actually established a timing structure for game setup

    I'm just going off the fact that a game of netrunner logically starts when you start shuffling your decks, since that's the first thing you have to do to play Netrunner

    it does indeed come down to when the game is considered to have started; it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Damon never considered that this was a question that needed to be answered, though it absolutely must have come up during playtesting, so I would expect to see him say something about it later this week

    we gonna be alright
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Yup, just checking. Also expecting something to be thrown up in an FAQ for this one.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Yup, just checking. Also expecting something to be thrown up in an FAQ for this one.

    Because I have no Criminal decks, and I bought nearly the entirety of the last two cycles, I constructed this:
    https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/37963/the-gambler-1st-place-fanfic

    What's Criminal all about gameplay wise? I'm not trying to "win" per se, its more like I'm trying to create a learning campaign for myself like what electronic MtG does so well, giving you premade decks that works well while teaching you why they work well via demonstrations. I'm lacking the latter, but I'm with a community that can help me.

    I still have a shitton of Corp sleeving to do. Sigh...

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Yup, just checking. Also expecting something to be thrown up in an FAQ for this one.

    Because I have no Criminal decks, and I bought nearly the entirety of the last two cycles, I constructed this:
    https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/37963/the-gambler-1st-place-fanfic

    What's Criminal all about gameplay wise?
    I'm not trying to "win" per se, its more like I'm trying to create a learning campaign for myself like what electronic MtG does so well, giving you premade decks that works well while teaching you why they work well via demonstrations. I'm lacking the latter, but I'm with a community that can help me.

    I still have a shitton of Corp sleeving to do. Sigh...

    I'm honestly not even sure how to answer that question anymore. I feel like a lot of Criminal's core gameplay has been exported to the other factions and gotten little to call its own. The irony is palpable that now that they've FINALLY seemed to be slotting in as the resource/connection faction, Scarcity Of Resources gets made as a really solid current.
    I'd say at some point Criminals were more about making runs than the other factions, and having "options" with run events. But a lot of what they've got has been the same (Legwork, CBI Raid, and that other one that's awful I forget the name of and don't care to look up all share a very similar design space, as an example), so it's been a long time living on the core set. In general they're still good at making money, but in general they also need to spend a lot more of it than the other factions.
    *shrug*
    I feel like it was asked somewhere towards the end of the last thread and just like now, I'd ask someone with a less pessimistic outlook to answer. :P

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    what's criminal all about, gameplay wise?

    well it's not for nothing that you'll hear the phrase "Criminal bullshit" deployed with alarming frequency in most netrunner playgroups

    you think your agenda is safe behind one fat barrier? tough shit dude, Andromeda always has a copy of Inside Job

    you've got a ten-credit lead on the runner? that's cute, because they'll swing it into a five-credit deficit with one card

    you finally got that archer rezzed on your scoring remote? with a pop-up window in front of it? that's okay, they'll just drop a Sneakdoor, get into HQ, play Emergency Shutdown, and then win the game

    basically, Criminal is about breaking the rules which you, as the Corp player, are trying to make

    Shorty on
    we gonna be alright
    EtheaMNC Dover
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    Criminal is about making giant piles of money, making devastating run events, and sneaking around your opponent's ice because your breakers suck

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Won a GNK tonight with trusty old Spy Camera Hayley and the Mumbad Virtual Tour flavour of CTM. Now I've got that delicious alt art, I'm hanging up my Spy Cams (horrible meta for it, and it's about to get much, much worse), but they've served me well. And Hayley might always be my favourite for being able to pull off the most bullshit of Shaper bullshit.

    ArcticLancer
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I like that Shorty says almost identical things to me without disdain that he's citing core set cards. <3

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    So Criminal is Jace. :(

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    Feloniousmoz
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    I like that Shorty says almost identical things to me without disdain that he's citing core set cards. <3

    haha

    I have to, they haven't printed a good criminal card in like three years

    we gonna be alright
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    .... you guys have played with temujin right

    the best card in the game? that temujin? arguably about 3 notches too strong?

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    I know, is joke

    but also the funny thing about temujin is that I most often see it played out of faction, because the rest of the criminal card pool just can't keep up anymore

    we gonna be alright
    ArcticLancer
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    So Criminal is Jace. :(

    I thought Jace was OP.

    This machine kills threads.
    PMAvers
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    So Criminal is Jace. :(

    I mean, kind of? Criminal's MO is/was "oh, you did this? Fine, let me find a way around it." That could be stealing their money, making lots of money themselves, or attacking different servers as new vectors to get where they actually want to go. It's also bypassing ice, bouncing ice, and de-rezzing ice. If the corp wants to have an open remote server (or even an open central), Criminals will make runs on that server and make money doing so. A minor theme is having lots of/good connections they can call on, though some have drawbacks.

    Unfortunately, they've not really focused a lot on the first part, instead emphasizing the money aspects. They've given bypass effects to other factions/neutral (Blackmail and Rigged Results), money stealing to other factions (Vamp), even attacking different servers (the new Omar Keung ID). Connections are arguably done better by Anarch, with Off-Campus Apartment helping a lot in card draw there.

    Also, most all of their tricks are expensive, so while they can make money, they have to spend it quickly. They also have no multi-access on R&D and most of their non-Sentry breakers are horribly inefficient. Lastly, their card draw (what little exists) is over-specialized, comes with drawbacks, or is costly (or some combination of them all). It's much more filtering/minor searches than actual draw in general.

    I really wish FFG would get back to the nifty derez/bypass mechanics they started with. Khan's breakers are a good start. Now if only they weren't so expensive....

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Really what tzeentchling said there.

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Shorty wrote: »
    I like that Shorty says almost identical things to me without disdain that he's citing core set cards. <3

    haha

    I have to, they haven't printed a good criminal card in like three years

    Career Fair is fantastic.

    And Drive By is playable.

    And Pol Op is a good included in faction.

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Equivocation - from Martial Law
    Program • Install: 2 • Memory: 1 • Influence: 3

    Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, you may reveal the top card of R&D. If you do, you may force the Corp to draw that card


    Wait, so the timing is, successful run. Everyone looks at the top card. Give it to the Corp and access the next card, or access it. That's good?

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
    PMAvers
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    Equivocation - from Martial Law
    Program • Install: 2 • Memory: 1 • Influence: 3

    Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, you may reveal the top card of R&D. If you do, you may force the Corp to draw that card


    Wait, so the timing is, successful run. Everyone looks at the top card. Give it to the Corp and access the next card, or access it. That's good?
    yeah it's weird but maybe decent

    we gonna be alright
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Equivocation - from Martial Law
    Program • Install: 2 • Memory: 1 • Influence: 3

    Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, you may reveal the top card of R&D. If you do, you may force the Corp to draw that card


    Wait, so the timing is, successful run. Everyone looks at the top card. Give it to the Corp and access the next card, or access it. That's good?
    yeah it's weird but maybe decent
    I don't know if I'd call it good, but it lets you see a new R&D every time you run, which doesn't seem like a bad effect for a 2 cost program. I'm reading it as:

    Run R&D, access, find an operation/ice.
    Run R&D, proc Equivocation, access new card.

    Unless there's a card that runs off the corp drawing cards, it feels like a worse version of Medium, but for Shaper.

  • PMAversPMAvers GomorraRegistered User regular
    It does mean that you won't have to worry about top-decking a Snare! when you hit R&D, and you can then nab whatever's underneath it by sending it to HQ.

    Granted, it's probably another Snare...

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    MNC Dover
  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Last night I named Power Nap with Targeted Marketing. It made me 20 credits.

    That was a weird game.

    Fry
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    That Jinteki ID... one net damage per turn should be pretty easy to pull off? Would something like shock, snare, neural EMP, data mine, jackson work? Could you fit Hostile Infrastructure and Hokusai?
    Hokusai, sure

    hostile infrastructure is only useful if you're running a lot of asset economy, otherwise it's pretty easy to ignore

    One can imagine that this deck is definitely running Bioethics and Hokusai, though- possibly also Batty, Corporate Troubleshooter, Melange?

    hmmmm

    here's a quick first attempt
    Jinteki: Potential Unleashed (Escalation)

    Agenda (9)
    3x Global Food Initiative (Data and Destiny) ●●●
    3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
    1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
    2x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

    Asset (17)
    3x Bio-Ethics Association (Democracy and Dogma)
    2x Hostile Infrastructure (All That Remains)
    3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ●●●
    3x Psychic Field (Honor and Profit)
    3x Snare! (Core Set)
    3x Turtlebacks (The Source)

    Upgrade (2)
    2x Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow)

    Operation (9)
    3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
    3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
    1x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ●●●●
    2x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

    Code Gate (7)
    2x Crick (Breaker Bay)
    2x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) ●●
    3x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

    Sentry (5)
    3x Pup (Honor and Profit)
    2x Swordsman (Second Thoughts)
    12 influence spent (max 12, available 0)
    20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
    49 cards (min 45)
    Cards up to Escalation

    Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

    Considering as Potential Unleashed you'll have shit money and you ability mills the same for Snare!, Field, and Shock! I'd max out the latter before deciding how many of the former you want in. Aiki hits two mills and sends them deeper into their deck for the same cost as Yagura.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    So Criminal is Jace. :(

    Criminal is about subverting the corp, not answering it. Rather than hitting corp cards like anarchs and shapers they pressure abstracts like credits and 'opportunity costs'. Criminals make the corp not be able to use their board state and thus for them timing is everything. Good criminal decks make the corp do stuff they don't want to do and then take advantage (armouring HQ and Archives means you can then RDI/Medium dig for the win).
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Now I have to try and get Khan to work after Worlds...
    I'll be very curious, because I'm not convinced there's a situation where Khan will actually be the right choice. She seems to be overdesigned to not be Kate or as powerful as Kate became. She essentially IS Kate, but with a watered down ability made to be hugely specific, and no link, and less influence, in exchange for a 40 card deck. Her breakers aren't exactly efficient and are definitely not cheap to throw down, are based around a gimmick that works better playing London Library than Khan herself, and pretty much require you to already be winning to pan out. From the ground up she just seems like incredibly tepid design with numbers that are beyond safe.
    Anyway, prove me wrong, man. You know I want you to. But I'm not remotely convinced she's where she should have been. The Anarch breakers coming out alongside the birds is like salt in the wound. :P

    Getting Khan to work is likely going to be tough. I agree she looks under powered, and her breakers over costed. However the ability to derez code gates and sentries is powerful, and I can understand why they are being careful. I've got a few ideas and maybe it'll work in some match ups, but I'll review post worlds where I won't be playing Khan!

    If everyone moves on to Tracker/Fairchild 3.0 I can see it. Essentially you'll need to work out a cost of ice for which it becomes worth it and break out Khan depending on the meta.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    .... you guys have played with temujin right

    the best card in the game? that temujin? arguably about 3 notches too strong?
    It was touched on already, but:
    Yes, it's a very good card. It's also very boring and very exportable, so another Criminal card that has core-set Anarch problems.
    Sure, Temujin is a "run for the money!" card, which fits Criminals in good ways, but the weird thing about that is since both other factions are better at living off fewer credits (through alternative payments and recurring credits, etc), they're probably better at leveraging how Temujin works.

    There are good Criminal cards, but they don't have as much to do with faction themes as they do simply existing. Career Fair is a notable card because it actually marked Criminals having a toe in that realm.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Now I have to try and get Khan to work after Worlds...
    I'll be very curious, because I'm not convinced there's a situation where Khan will actually be the right choice. She seems to be overdesigned to not be Kate or as powerful as Kate became. She essentially IS Kate, but with a watered down ability made to be hugely specific, and no link, and less influence, in exchange for a 40 card deck. Her breakers aren't exactly efficient and are definitely not cheap to throw down, are based around a gimmick that works better playing London Library than Khan herself, and pretty much require you to already be winning to pan out. From the ground up she just seems like incredibly tepid design with numbers that are beyond safe.
    Anyway, prove me wrong, man. You know I want you to. But I'm not remotely convinced she's where she should have been. The Anarch breakers coming out alongside the birds is like salt in the wound. :P

    Getting Khan to work is likely going to be tough. I agree she looks under powered, and her breakers over costed. However the ability to derez code gates and sentries is powerful, and I can understand why they are being careful. I've got a few ideas and maybe it'll work in some match ups, but I'll review post worlds where I won't be playing Khan!

    If everyone moves on to Tracker/Fairchild 3.0 I can see it. Essentially you'll need to work out a cost of ice for which it becomes worth it and break out Khan depending on the meta.

    The main point being that the birds could well be fine, but you still probably do better with another ID than the handfull of credits Khan gets you in a game (which will almost certainly be a number fewer than Ken gets). The influence tradeoff is bad and the install window is niche. If you want a 40 card deck Silhouette would be a legit consideration. :P

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    I played really well with a Core Weyland deck with a splash of Tag/Murder last night. The most I got to do with the tag was closed account. I nearly won.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    ArcticLancer
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    I almost think rabbit hole Khan, with b&e breakers, would be janky but workable. But you'd never be able to get enough draw.

    This machine kills threads.
  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Alpha plus chameleon Khan?

  • PMAversPMAvers GomorraRegistered User regular
    Epimer wrote: »
    Last night I named Power Nap with Targeted Marketing. It made me 20 credits.

    That was a weird game.

    Back when it was big, I once got like 60 credits off a Lizard Hayley by naming Chameleon.

    I should try it again sometime, but on Spy Cameras.

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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Neaden wrote: »
    Alpha plus chameleon Khan?

    Just sort of hope you don't run into anything a little glaciery running a lotus field or Eli or wrap around with something in front of it.

    Christ, are there any Weyland barriers with strength >3 that get played? Seriously, why are they so bad at everything?

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • PMAversPMAvers GomorraRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Curtain Wall in Blue Sun?

    I occasionally dust off Hadrian's for some decks.

    Hive's on Strength 3, but five ETR subs I think makes up for it.

    Sometimes use Fire Wall, depends on the deck.

    PMAvers on
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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    here's a deck idea I've been kickin' around for a little while:
    Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core Set)

    Agenda (12)
    3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
    3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
    1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
    3x Profiteering (Second Thoughts)
    2x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

    Asset (16)
    3x Bio-Ethics Association (Democracy and Dogma)
    1x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control) ●●
    3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ●●●
    3x Psychic Field (Honor and Profit)
    3x Ronin (Future Proof)
    3x Snare! (Core Set)

    Operation (12)
    2x Dedication Ceremony (Kala Ghoda) ●●●●● ●
    3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
    3x Medical Research Fundraiser (Honor and Profit)
    3x Mushin No Shin (Honor and Profit)
    1x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ●●●●

    Code Gate (5)
    2x Aiki (Blood Money)
    3x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

    Sentry (4)
    2x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
    2x Swordsman (Second Thoughts)
    15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
    20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
    49 cards (min 45)
    Cards up to Blood Money

    Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

    basically the idea is to set up a kill with Bio-Ethics and ronin, keeping their runs furtive and hand small with PE's ability

    (aiki is there because it's new and I want to try it but looking at it now it's probably a bad idea since I'm running Profiteering, it will probably become Pup or Crick)

    haven't played it yet since I haven't had time to sleeve anything, but seems interesting

    we gonna be alright
  • BogartBogart Newsflash, fuckwads: I'm a good person. Registered User regular
    Picked up Escalation. For whatever reason I thought Smoke was in it, so boo hoo, but maybe I'll build an Omar Keung deck instead for laughs.

    Net Mecur makes the Kate stealth deck a heck of a lot easier to run as well, so there's that. There's a BABW tournament this weekend, and a local GNK as well, so maybe this weekend I will be playing a lot of Netrunner. Possibly not, though, as since Nationals finished I've found my appetite for playing has diminished considerably, even with the bonkers cards in every new pack. Natural fatigue after champs season, I guess.

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Possibly not, though, as since Nationals finished I've found my appetite for playing has diminished considerably, even with the bonkers cards in every new pack. Natural fatigue after champs season, I guess.

    I've been the same. The GNK last/this week was basically the first time I'd played since Nationals, and I took more or less the same decks (give or take a few cards) because I'm not comfortable with anything else yet.

    I'm really glad I got my alt art and the pressure is off, because after a couple of years of no Netrunner support our local store now orders FOUR of each GNK, so I'll have a few more opportunities to jank it up to the max before putting my super serious Store Championship trousers on.

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    I HAVE HAD A TERRIBLE IDEA THAT I MUST TRY:

    Khan's breakers in Nasir.

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    do it, you get London Library in faction, and that's something nasir already likes

    we gonna be alright
    PMAvers
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    Algo trading also pretty good on Nasir I think.

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