honestly professions already are pretty much optional; you might as well be a gatherer/alch or whatever cause it's easy, but it's not something that'll hold you back if you'd rather just buy your materials at auction. And most of the crafting profs can make semi-relevant gear via the obliterum process.
you can't really have a compelling crafting economy without scarcity, which largely just does not exist in WoW. Gear doesn't decay, materials are only limited by farming time, etc.
and I think 'minigames' sound like a good idea but in reality would just become irritating
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
They already have Obliterum for crafted gear. They could easily add a mechanic to that so that it causes secondary stats to change when you boost ilvl, or give you the option to keep them as they are.
At the least, it's high time they let us put in work orders via the AH or other method. This would add a bit more demand/interest to the professions.
@H3Knuckles as @Warlock82 said, most professions used to buff gear and/or give a personal buff (Cataclysm was the most recent). Then players bitched about not being able to immediately use gear they get from content, so most of it was removed. The Shaman I have as my main right now started out as a LW mule who cranked out leg armor kits.
I'm a bit confused about your comments regarding Alchemy because that's already how the profession works. Or were you discussing how you would design the professions in your list, if you had your way?
I think I said earlier, I'd like to see Inscription revived as a "research" profession that lets you write tomes which you can sell to unlock transmog sets/items. It elegantly kills two birds with one stone. Another option, since pigments are already in the game, is to (*finally*) incorporate gear dyes. Devs can still keep specific colorings exclusive to more difficult content or other similar wall.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited February 2017
I know that some of the ideas are or were previously in game, I was just trying to outline the full picture as it were. I think all (or most) of what I wrote would need to be combined to achieve the desired result. And yeah, I know it'll never be EVE Online or anything approaching that due to no scarcity, but there used to be a fairly bustling AH and trade chat for players to get stuff from professions, and while I haven't been able to play since Legion came out from what I've been reading that doesn't sound like it's the case anymore.
Also, if we avoid the service-based approach I added at the last minute and brought back kits for all the gear upgrade/enchantment stuff, why couldn't players put things on right away? Just get a set of kits pre-emptively and as soon as a piece drops, you upgrade it and boom, you're good to go?
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited February 2017
Crazy ass idea that just popped in my head - what if the armor you could craft could be personalized in a sense that you'd have some control over its looks based on which transmog sets are available to you? (and then you could sell it looking like this) Would probably never work, but something like that would be really cool.
Also, if we avoid the service-based approach I added at the last minute and brought back kits for all the gear upgrade/enchantment stuff, why couldn't players put things on right away? Just get a set of kits pre-emptively and as soon as a piece drops, you upgrade it and boom, you're good to go?
Because players are lazy and inventory will always be at a premium.
Also, for the record, the AHs I interact with (Stormrage, Firetree, Kul Tiras) are still bustling. I've made roughly 200k gold in gross flask sales since Nighthold came out.
Crafted gear in Legion is measured with the assumption that the "real" crafted gear ilvl is full with Obliterum. And there IS a market for crafted items, right now the Obliterum cap lets you fill to 865. Darkmoon Decks, for example, are very strong items before high M+/Nighthold trinkets.
On "being forced to do Mythics": That is a 100% intended design decision. Preach had a very interesting video about healing on the PuG world that talks about this: https://youtu.be/gRx2lgS75U0
Basically, Blizz's conclusion was this: The whole point of playing an MMO is to form social connections with other players, else there's absolutely no reason to play WoW over a Bioware/Bethseda game. So, ideally, the game should led players to form said social connections, given that one of the main reasons why people quit the game is said social connections going away. So yes, Blizz said: "You have to talk to others and form/get groups to do stuff on our game since that's the point, so not being able to do everything solo is a feature".
I don't form social connections with people I group finder with, so if that was their intent behind forcing people to seek out parties manually they failed.
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I don't form social connections with people I group finder with, so if that was their intent behind forcing people to seek out parties manually they failed.
You may not, but people often do. Besides knowing people in real life, it's the only way to form regular groups of players.
Because it can be hard to put a really competent group together in the group finder, if you are grouping solo and happen to come across a couple really good people, you may well suggest to them that you play again together.
Darkmoon trinkets have, historically, always had stats that well exceed their budget. I wouldn't count them as "crafted" gear and wouldn't be surprised if the majority of obliterum goes towards upgrading them.
Not sure why they don't improve upon the TBC model. Give each profession an item and let them upgrade it via some macguffin that drops from raids; have another doodad that lets it count as if it were a piece of your tier set. Granted this keeps professions (outside of consumables, which by their very nature will never be obsoleted) relevant in only the flimsiest manner, but it's a great deal better than now where they struggle to make players care about them by loading them with stupid busywork quests and a load of pets/mounts/toys.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Darkmoon trinkets have, historically, always had stats that well exceed their budget. I wouldn't count them as "crafted" gear and wouldn't be surprised if the majority of obliterum goes towards upgrading them.
Not sure why they don't improve upon the TBC model. Give each profession an item and let them upgrade it via some macguffin that drops from raids; have another doodad that lets it count as if it were a piece of your tier set. Granted this keeps professions (outside of consumables, which by their very nature will never be obsoleted) relevant in only the flimsiest manner, but it's a great deal better than now where they struggle to make players care about them by loading them with stupid busywork quests and a load of pets/mounts/toys.
Crafting isn't social, so it can't have good rewards.
reVerse on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited February 2017
Crafting could easily make a comeback as important if they introduced things to craft that people actually wanted to buy for longer than the first two weeks of an expansion, and made crafting something that was slower and harder to level to reduce supply.
Right now, however, the problem is not only that there's very little people actually need from crafting, but what little they do need is easy to supply themselves because professions are trivial to level.
Increase the time investment and you reduce the chances that raiders will bother with professions themselves, and open up the possibility to play the game as a full time crafter.
Instead of unlocking a specific slot, you get to choose. That way, instead of unlocking gear that is worse than what you're wearing, you can target your upgrades.
I have a bigger issue with the fact you have to purchase/use *so many* upgrades to make either crafted or OH gear relevant. If you're buying crafted gear, you're going to spend around 10k gold just upgrading its ilvl to a competitive value to that dropped via WQ/LFR/Normals/Mythic+.
Similarly for the OH set, you need a significant amount of OH resources (....5k? I haven't looked into prices at the OH vendors) for each piece.
Considering the OH set is -- essentially -- equivalent to the blue dungeon set from BC, the set bonuses don't warrant that level of effort or ability gimping (lower ilvl).
Mugsley on
+1
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I have a bigger issue with the fact you have to purchase/use *so many* upgrades to make either crafted or OH gear relevant. If you're buying crafted gear, you're going to spend around 10k gold just upgrading its ilvl to a competitive value to that dropped via WQ/LFR/Normals/Mythic+.
Similarly for the OH set, you need a significant amount of OH resources (....5k? I haven't looked into prices at the OH vendors) for each piece.
Considering the OH set is -- essentially -- equivalent to the blue dungeon set from BC, the set bonuses don't warrant that level of effort or ability gimping (lower ilvl).
This is the biggest problem. The level of effort does not match the quality. Often it even involves doing content where you will get *better* items than the ones you are trying to obtain.
In other news, I *finally* finished Pathfinder last night. It turned out the last two questlines I needed were the one in the Demon area and the Vrykul/Naga one. I initially thought there was one more quest chain in Suramar city. Also got the Arcway 0 done that I needed and only facepulled extra trash once, so I'm calling it a win.
I wish they would bring back that cata level of customization. Give me back reforging and enchants for every slot and food that gave substantial buffs and gem bonuses and sockets, sockets everywhere. Make inscription into enchanting, but for spells instead of gear like the vanilla spell books. Lean further into the crafting quests, make the crafting ranks mean something other than slight discounts. I have nothing to spend gold on but wow tokens and an enchant every couple weeks, and that is LAME.
FC: 1435-5383-0883
+1
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I will admit the new 3 star system for profs are nice, oh you're not exalted with a certain faction or have lousy rng? Here's the same recipe, but it will cost a little more.
If you're a compltionist it will drive you crazy though.
Sob, I just want rank 3 of any type of mining, please
I've taken my travels to collect Lunar Coins this week and spent some time collecting the rare versions of pets I didn't have the patience for originally.
I also have spent some pet tokens on blue upgrade stones because some of these wild pets are a pain to get rares of.
Still, going well over all. I believe I now have the rare version of everything found in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
-edit-
OH, and while cruising through Outland the other day I finally managed to snag that damn Firefly from Zangarmarsh!
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Very nice! If you are going for the zookeeper title (every catchable pet) I can advise.
Some of the Legion pets are deviously annoying to get. And one of the is required for the hatching quest.
Pro tip, use group finder to check other realms for rare pets. Just remember they made a dumb change where the leader needs to be in the zone you want to go to his realm. I got a few pets this way by jumping into groups for elites (i.e. World boss, warden world quests, etc) since those didn't have 5 person limits so you aren't being a jerk so much by not actually doing the quest :P
I have a bigger issue with the fact you have to purchase/use *so many* upgrades to make either crafted or OH gear relevant. If you're buying crafted gear, you're going to spend around 10k gold just upgrading its ilvl to a competitive value to that dropped via WQ/LFR/Normals/Mythic+.
Similarly for the OH set, you need a significant amount of OH resources (....5k? I haven't looked into prices at the OH vendors) for each piece.
Considering the OH set is -- essentially -- equivalent to the blue dungeon set from BC, the set bonuses don't warrant that level of effort or ability gimping (lower ilvl).
But... 10k is a not a lot of gold. I made that in the last few days without even logging in, by doing OH missions via the app. Incidentally, I logged in and immediately Prospected the gems to make a 12k item using my... profession.
I think Professions are pretty useful, without them I would not make enough gold to keep up with all the flasks and food I need for raiding. It's not very exciting, I'll grant you, but without mining / enchanting, I probably couldn't raid.
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If we want crafting to have place then there needs to be things they can make that people want.
Gear is not that, and never can be.
+1
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited February 2017
This was a big one of my points. I understand that having to get all your stuff modded to get to performance targets was a pain, but trying to have the professions produce the gear itself has never worked well with what Blizzard wants to do in terms of dungeons, raids, PVP rewards, and such. As long as stuff like Artifact Weapons and Tier Sets remain a key part of design I don't think you can make profession-made gear really work.
I have a bigger issue with the fact you have to purchase/use *so many* upgrades to make either crafted or OH gear relevant. If you're buying crafted gear, you're going to spend around 10k gold just upgrading its ilvl to a competitive value to that dropped via WQ/LFR/Normals/Mythic+.
Similarly for the OH set, you need a significant amount of OH resources (....5k? I haven't looked into prices at the OH vendors) for each piece.
Considering the OH set is -- essentially -- equivalent to the blue dungeon set from BC, the set bonuses don't warrant that level of effort or ability gimping (lower ilvl).
But... 10k is a not a lot of gold. I made that in the last few days without even logging in, by doing OH missions via the app. Incidentally, I logged in and immediately Prospected the gems to make a 12k item using my... profession.
I think Professions are pretty useful, without them I would not make enough gold to keep up with all the flasks and food I need for raiding. It's not very exciting, I'll grant you, but without mining / enchanting, I probably couldn't raid.
I'll concede that point, but it's pretty expensive for a marginalized piece of gear.
Anecdotes and all, but I spent 15k opening up my oblit forge. Would you like to guess how many times I've used it?
Very nice! If you are going for the zookeeper title (every catchable pet) I can advise.
Some of the Legion pets are deviously annoying to get. And one of the is required for the hatching quest.
Pro tip, use group finder to check other realms for rare pets. Just remember they made a dumb change where the leader needs to be in the zone you want to go to his realm. I got a few pets this way by jumping into groups for elites (i.e. World boss, warden world quests, etc) since those didn't have 5 person limits so you aren't being a jerk so much by not actually doing the quest :P
For old world stuff I just did a few circles of spawns, and if it got too frustrating, that's when I spent tokens on a rare upgrade stone.
I am not spending the rest of my life farming this stuff.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Very nice! If you are going for the zookeeper title (every catchable pet) I can advise.
Some of the Legion pets are deviously annoying to get. And one of the is required for the hatching quest.
Pro tip, use group finder to check other realms for rare pets. Just remember they made a dumb change where the leader needs to be in the zone you want to go to his realm. I got a few pets this way by jumping into groups for elites (i.e. World boss, warden world quests, etc) since those didn't have 5 person limits so you aren't being a jerk so much by not actually doing the quest :P
For old world stuff I just did a few circles of spawns, and if it got too frustrating, that's when I spent tokens on a rare upgrade stone.
I am not spending the rest of my life farming this stuff.
I mean for actual rare spawn pets, not rare quality
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Crafting gear only works in games that have some sort of way for gear to disappear. Whether that be destruction of ships like in EVE Online or straight up losing items when you die like RuneScape or Ultima Online.
For as long as World of Warcraft retains item permanent, there will never be a viable way for crafters to establish an economy when most of the useful things they can make are gear items.
Like @H3Knuckles says, there are downsides to having a whole heap of consumables that confer benefits but that is the price we have to pay if we want crafters to be able to produce and sell things that people actually want.
Even with the ideas under discussion you don't have much of an economy, though. The margin on stuff like enchants approaches zero within a few weeks of expansions' launch because crafting has essentiallly zero opportunity cost. You can make some gold on arbitrage but that's not really crafting, just playing the AH. In Legion such as flasks have frequently had negative margins at rank < 3, just because so many people are chasing discoveries
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Darkmoon trinkets have, historically, always had stats that well exceed their budget. I wouldn't count them as "crafted" gear and wouldn't be surprised if the majority of obliterum goes towards upgrading them.
Not sure why they don't improve upon the TBC model. Give each profession an item and let them upgrade it via some macguffin that drops from raids; have another doodad that lets it count as if it were a piece of your tier set. Granted this keeps professions (outside of consumables, which by their very nature will never be obsoleted) relevant in only the flimsiest manner, but it's a great deal better than now where they struggle to make players care about them by loading them with stupid busywork quests and a load of pets/mounts/toys.
Crafting isn't social, so it can't have good rewards.
Requiring you to do group content to get the materials is social. Needing mats form other professions is, to some extent, social. Crafting materials for something like Sulfuras was very social experience that they could replicate, and that they had the opportunity to do when adding a bunch of profession quests. Instead, they decided to just lock recipes behind dungeon runs and sometimes instead of ten bear asses they want ten herbs.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Even with the ideas under discussion you don't have much of an economy, though. The margin on stuff like enchants approaches zero within a few weeks of expansions' launch because crafting has essentiallly zero opportunity cost. You can make some gold on arbitrage but that's not really crafting, just playing the AH. In Legion such as flasks have frequently had negative margins at rank < 3, just because so many people are chasing discoveries
Crafting has zero opportunity cost because it's too easy.
Why would a raider pay someone else for crafting when it will take him an afternoon to replicate their progress?
Making crafting as timeconsuming as PvE content, in combination with creating a bunch of items to craft that people actually need regularly, would go a long way to establish crafting as a playstyle instead of a sideshow.
Very nice! If you are going for the zookeeper title (every catchable pet) I can advise.
Some of the Legion pets are deviously annoying to get. And one of the is required for the hatching quest.
Pro tip, use group finder to check other realms for rare pets. Just remember they made a dumb change where the leader needs to be in the zone you want to go to his realm. I got a few pets this way by jumping into groups for elites (i.e. World boss, warden world quests, etc) since those didn't have 5 person limits so you aren't being a jerk so much by not actually doing the quest :P
For old world stuff I just did a few circles of spawns, and if it got too frustrating, that's when I spent tokens on a rare upgrade stone.
I am not spending the rest of my life farming this stuff.
I mean for actual rare spawn pets, not rare quality
Well, there's some overlap there. If only 5 of something spawns at a time and it can take hours to respawn, I just grab whatever I can get and upgrade it.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Even with the ideas under discussion you don't have much of an economy, though. The margin on stuff like enchants approaches zero within a few weeks of expansions' launch because crafting has essentiallly zero opportunity cost. You can make some gold on arbitrage but that's not really crafting, just playing the AH. In Legion such as flasks have frequently had negative margins at rank < 3, just because so many people are chasing discoveries
Crafting has zero opportunity cost because it's too easy.
Why would a raider pay someone else for crafting when it will take him an afternoon to replicate their progress?
Making crafting as timeconsuming as PvE content, in combination with creating a bunch of items to craft that people actually need regularly, would go a long way to establish crafting as a playstyle instead of a sideshow.
Right, this is the eve online approach
I don't think most people in WoW actually want that though, and there's few enough who even think they do
(Like, do players actually want such as enchants to be prohibitively expensive again?)
I actually think the WoD approach was a good one: just explicitly time gate everything. This still fizzles after a bit due to lack of scarcity, but it worked for a while
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Even with the ideas under discussion you don't have much of an economy, though. The margin on stuff like enchants approaches zero within a few weeks of expansions' launch because crafting has essentiallly zero opportunity cost. You can make some gold on arbitrage but that's not really crafting, just playing the AH. In Legion such as flasks have frequently had negative margins at rank < 3, just because so many people are chasing discoveries
Crafting has zero opportunity cost because it's too easy.
Why would a raider pay someone else for crafting when it will take him an afternoon to replicate their progress?
Making crafting as timeconsuming as PvE content, in combination with creating a bunch of items to craft that people actually need regularly, would go a long way to establish crafting as a playstyle instead of a sideshow.
Right, this is the eve online approach
I don't think most people in WoW actually want that though, and there's few enough who even think they do
(Like, do players actually want such as enchants to be prohibitively expensive again?)
I actually think the WoD approach was a good one: just explicitly time gate everything. This still fizzles after a bit due to lack of scarcity, but it worked for a while
Yeah, the cries for murder from the raiding community at the prices on the AH before 7.1 (that gave us the Blood of Sargeras vendor) are a very recent example of the beggining and the end of that discussion. That said, locking rank 3 recipes (aka the only way to get to 800 on a crafting profession) under RNG* was one of the most idiotic Legion design decisions, it doesn't get more attention because Legendaries are right there.
*On Alch's case, there's the Rank 3 for the BoS potion. That comes from a WB. And was added on 7.1 too. I know that because is the only reason why I'm at 800 Alch.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The rank 3 prolonged power has got to be the most pointless rank 3 of any of the alchemy ones.
+1
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Darkmoon trinkets have, historically, always had stats that well exceed their budget. I wouldn't count them as "crafted" gear and wouldn't be surprised if the majority of obliterum goes towards upgrading them.
Not sure why they don't improve upon the TBC model. Give each profession an item and let them upgrade it via some macguffin that drops from raids; have another doodad that lets it count as if it were a piece of your tier set. Granted this keeps professions (outside of consumables, which by their very nature will never be obsoleted) relevant in only the flimsiest manner, but it's a great deal better than now where they struggle to make players care about them by loading them with stupid busywork quests and a load of pets/mounts/toys.
Crafting isn't social, so it can't have good rewards.
Requiring you to do group content to get the materials is social. Needing mats form other professions is, to some extent, social. Crafting materials for something like Sulfuras was very social experience that they could replicate, and that they had the opportunity to do when adding a bunch of profession quests. Instead, they decided to just lock recipes behind dungeon runs and sometimes instead of ten bear asses they want ten herbs.
Yeah the rated battlegrounds one is the one where it's like, seriously Blizzard? Dungeons are whatever, though you're clearly getting better gear out of those dungeons than what you are crafting. Rated Battlegrounds take effort to setup. You might as well put the rank 3s in heroic raids or something. It's kind of ridiculous...
Side note, I started this week's archaeology. "Oh, I'm getting pages every dig! This one might not be terrible!" Get 40 pages after one dig site plus a couple swings at a 2nd. Combine the pages together. "Combine 9 chapters together!" Fuck you Blizzard. I've seen the item too, it's all for artifact power. So like, I can do the 10 dig sites this is going to take, or like, two world quests and get the same amount. *sigh*
The rank 3 prolonged power has got to be the most pointless rank 3 of any of the alchemy ones.
Is the only reason why I and several guildies have 800 Alch aka can make Cauldrons, so is not pointless :v
Oh, for levelling. I didn't realize it stayed orange.
Yeah, it's good in that regard. Just, seems silly to have a proc rate so low when they are so cheap. There is basically no difference between a +15 proc and a +10 normal craft.
Posts
you can't really have a compelling crafting economy without scarcity, which largely just does not exist in WoW. Gear doesn't decay, materials are only limited by farming time, etc.
and I think 'minigames' sound like a good idea but in reality would just become irritating
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
At the least, it's high time they let us put in work orders via the AH or other method. This would add a bit more demand/interest to the professions.
@H3Knuckles as @Warlock82 said, most professions used to buff gear and/or give a personal buff (Cataclysm was the most recent). Then players bitched about not being able to immediately use gear they get from content, so most of it was removed. The Shaman I have as my main right now started out as a LW mule who cranked out leg armor kits.
I'm a bit confused about your comments regarding Alchemy because that's already how the profession works. Or were you discussing how you would design the professions in your list, if you had your way?
I think I said earlier, I'd like to see Inscription revived as a "research" profession that lets you write tomes which you can sell to unlock transmog sets/items. It elegantly kills two birds with one stone. Another option, since pigments are already in the game, is to (*finally*) incorporate gear dyes. Devs can still keep specific colorings exclusive to more difficult content or other similar wall.
Also, if we avoid the service-based approach I added at the last minute and brought back kits for all the gear upgrade/enchantment stuff, why couldn't players put things on right away? Just get a set of kits pre-emptively and as soon as a piece drops, you upgrade it and boom, you're good to go?
Because players are lazy and inventory will always be at a premium.
Also, for the record, the AHs I interact with (Stormrage, Firetree, Kul Tiras) are still bustling. I've made roughly 200k gold in gross flask sales since Nighthold came out.
On "being forced to do Mythics": That is a 100% intended design decision. Preach had a very interesting video about healing on the PuG world that talks about this:
https://youtu.be/gRx2lgS75U0
Basically, Blizz's conclusion was this: The whole point of playing an MMO is to form social connections with other players, else there's absolutely no reason to play WoW over a Bioware/Bethseda game. So, ideally, the game should led players to form said social connections, given that one of the main reasons why people quit the game is said social connections going away. So yes, Blizz said: "You have to talk to others and form/get groups to do stuff on our game since that's the point, so not being able to do everything solo is a feature".
You may not, but people often do. Besides knowing people in real life, it's the only way to form regular groups of players.
Because it can be hard to put a really competent group together in the group finder, if you are grouping solo and happen to come across a couple really good people, you may well suggest to them that you play again together.
Not sure why they don't improve upon the TBC model. Give each profession an item and let them upgrade it via some macguffin that drops from raids; have another doodad that lets it count as if it were a piece of your tier set. Granted this keeps professions (outside of consumables, which by their very nature will never be obsoleted) relevant in only the flimsiest manner, but it's a great deal better than now where they struggle to make players care about them by loading them with stupid busywork quests and a load of pets/mounts/toys.
Crafting isn't social, so it can't have good rewards.
Right now, however, the problem is not only that there's very little people actually need from crafting, but what little they do need is easy to supply themselves because professions are trivial to level.
Increase the time investment and you reduce the chances that raiders will bother with professions themselves, and open up the possibility to play the game as a full time crafter.
Instead of unlocking a specific slot, you get to choose. That way, instead of unlocking gear that is worse than what you're wearing, you can target your upgrades.
At least I got perfect stats on the Skullblasters the first time I made them.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Similarly for the OH set, you need a significant amount of OH resources (....5k? I haven't looked into prices at the OH vendors) for each piece.
Considering the OH set is -- essentially -- equivalent to the blue dungeon set from BC, the set bonuses don't warrant that level of effort or ability gimping (lower ilvl).
This is the biggest problem. The level of effort does not match the quality. Often it even involves doing content where you will get *better* items than the ones you are trying to obtain.
If you're a compltionist it will drive you crazy though.
Sob, I just want rank 3 of any type of mining, please
WoW
Dear Satan.....
I also have spent some pet tokens on blue upgrade stones because some of these wild pets are a pain to get rares of.
Still, going well over all. I believe I now have the rare version of everything found in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
-edit-
OH, and while cruising through Outland the other day I finally managed to snag that damn Firefly from Zangarmarsh!
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Some of the Legion pets are deviously annoying to get. And one of the is required for the hatching quest.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Pro tip, use group finder to check other realms for rare pets. Just remember they made a dumb change where the leader needs to be in the zone you want to go to his realm. I got a few pets this way by jumping into groups for elites (i.e. World boss, warden world quests, etc) since those didn't have 5 person limits so you aren't being a jerk so much by not actually doing the quest :P
But... 10k is a not a lot of gold. I made that in the last few days without even logging in, by doing OH missions via the app. Incidentally, I logged in and immediately Prospected the gems to make a 12k item using my... profession.
I think Professions are pretty useful, without them I would not make enough gold to keep up with all the flasks and food I need for raiding. It's not very exciting, I'll grant you, but without mining / enchanting, I probably couldn't raid.
Steam: adamjnet
If we want crafting to have place then there needs to be things they can make that people want.
Gear is not that, and never can be.
I'll concede that point, but it's pretty expensive for a marginalized piece of gear.
Anecdotes and all, but I spent 15k opening up my oblit forge. Would you like to guess how many times I've used it?
For old world stuff I just did a few circles of spawns, and if it got too frustrating, that's when I spent tokens on a rare upgrade stone.
I am not spending the rest of my life farming this stuff.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I mean for actual rare spawn pets, not rare quality
For as long as World of Warcraft retains item permanent, there will never be a viable way for crafters to establish an economy when most of the useful things they can make are gear items.
Like @H3Knuckles says, there are downsides to having a whole heap of consumables that confer benefits but that is the price we have to pay if we want crafters to be able to produce and sell things that people actually want.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Crafting has zero opportunity cost because it's too easy.
Why would a raider pay someone else for crafting when it will take him an afternoon to replicate their progress?
Making crafting as timeconsuming as PvE content, in combination with creating a bunch of items to craft that people actually need regularly, would go a long way to establish crafting as a playstyle instead of a sideshow.
Well, there's some overlap there. If only 5 of something spawns at a time and it can take hours to respawn, I just grab whatever I can get and upgrade it.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Right, this is the eve online approach
I don't think most people in WoW actually want that though, and there's few enough who even think they do
(Like, do players actually want such as enchants to be prohibitively expensive again?)
I actually think the WoD approach was a good one: just explicitly time gate everything. This still fizzles after a bit due to lack of scarcity, but it worked for a while
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yeah, the cries for murder from the raiding community at the prices on the AH before 7.1 (that gave us the Blood of Sargeras vendor) are a very recent example of the beggining and the end of that discussion. That said, locking rank 3 recipes (aka the only way to get to 800 on a crafting profession) under RNG* was one of the most idiotic Legion design decisions, it doesn't get more attention because Legendaries are right there.
*On Alch's case, there's the Rank 3 for the BoS potion. That comes from a WB. And was added on 7.1 too. I know that because is the only reason why I'm at 800 Alch.
Yeah the rated battlegrounds one is the one where it's like, seriously Blizzard? Dungeons are whatever, though you're clearly getting better gear out of those dungeons than what you are crafting. Rated Battlegrounds take effort to setup. You might as well put the rank 3s in heroic raids or something. It's kind of ridiculous...
Side note, I started this week's archaeology. "Oh, I'm getting pages every dig! This one might not be terrible!" Get 40 pages after one dig site plus a couple swings at a 2nd. Combine the pages together. "Combine 9 chapters together!" Fuck you Blizzard. I've seen the item too, it's all for artifact power. So like, I can do the 10 dig sites this is going to take, or like, two world quests and get the same amount. *sigh*
I mean it's fine not to like it, but if doing ~10 dig sites over two weeks is such a chore why are you even doing archaeology in the first place
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Is the only reason why I and several guildies have 800 Alch aka can make Cauldrons, so is not pointless :v
Oh, for levelling. I didn't realize it stayed orange.
Yeah, it's good in that regard. Just, seems silly to have a proc rate so low when they are so cheap. There is basically no difference between a +15 proc and a +10 normal craft.