I remember this was discussed here back in WOD, when they removed what remained of gating for professions. Back then, most posters were in support of the change because they thought farming old content for mats was stupid and time consuming.
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
Mugsley on
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yeah I mean, what happens if a new player goes and farms a crap ton of low level ore while levelling only to find out it is nearly worthless?
The game gives him no indication that what he's doing is pointless.
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I remember this was discussed here back in WOD, when they removed what remained of gating for professions. Back then, most posters were in support of the change because they thought farming old content for mats was stupid and time consuming.
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
Forcing people to grind through 5+ expansions would effectively kill professions for most players. Especially shit like enchanting which would be a dog to do.
They're likely going to eliminate Profession skill as a thing in the next expansion, although truth be told professions in general are obsolete outside of the ones producing consumables.
I remember this was discussed here back in WOD, when they removed what remained of gating for professions. Back then, most posters were in support of the change because they thought farming old content for mats was stupid and time consuming.
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
Forcing people to grind through 5+ expansions would effectively kill professions for most players. Especially shit like enchanting which would be a dog to do.
They're likely going to eliminate Profession skill as a thing in the next expansion, although truth be told professions in general are obsolete outside of the ones producing consumables.
Legion was the expansion where "Profession skill is not going to be a thing, you will be able to get all your Legion recipes at level 1!"
On updates, keeping the theme of "I'm hilariously behind on dungeons", today I managed to do Kara for the first time. Turns out that you can crush the place at an 870+ group. And got a WF 860 Drape of Shame, that is still hilariously overpowered for HPallys and think that HPriests. Good enough for the HPally that killed M Gul'dan, good enough for me. As a bonus, there was a quest from NH that required to kill Mana Devourer for a toy that let's you play again all the Legion cinematics, so that's cool.
EDIT: Oh, and got the Balance of Power questline done:
It looks very pretty, and I love this tier set.
I remember this was discussed here back in WOD, when they removed what remained of gating for professions. Back then, most posters were in support of the change because they thought farming old content for mats was stupid and time consuming.
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
Forcing people to grind through 5+ expansions would effectively kill professions for most players. Especially shit like enchanting which would be a dog to do.
They're likely going to eliminate Profession skill as a thing in the next expansion, although truth be told professions in general are obsolete outside of the ones producing consumables.
The idea is that when "most players" don't bother with professions, the ones who do bother get a boost from the market not being flooded.
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I remember this was discussed here back in WOD, when they removed what remained of gating for professions. Back then, most posters were in support of the change because they thought farming old content for mats was stupid and time consuming.
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
Forcing people to grind through 5+ expansions would effectively kill professions for most players. Especially shit like enchanting which would be a dog to do.
They're likely going to eliminate Profession skill as a thing in the next expansion, although truth be told professions in general are obsolete outside of the ones producing consumables.
The idea is that when "most players" don't bother with professions, the ones who do bother get a boost from the market not being flooded.
Yes, that's exactly the point. In order for professions to be anything more than a sideshow, they have to be time consuming enough that not everyone will want to do them.
They don't want professions to be anything more than a sideshow, and making it inaccessible to new players is absolutely something that goes against their modern design philosophy.
Professions really are an example of a system that worked pretty well for vanilla, but that has become bloated to the point of broken since.
In vanilla 350 skill levels worked. There was enough variety in raw materials to make the grind more interesting, and they tended to match your leveling progress. I vaguely remember herbs lasting would last somewhere between 1 and 3 zones before you moved onto the next tier, and there were a lot of herbs. With expansions the natural expansion was to throw on another 100 skill points or so and just carry on. Clearly this becomes a bit of a problem when you hit 800 skill points and skill progression is still tuned for vanilla leveling speed. I don't particularly think Blizzard's idea of just making the earlier content (and skill levels in general) irrelevant was a great idea but the whole system really needed overhauled a few expansions ago. Can you imagine if they had just carried on with the original player abilities and talent trees from vanilla onwards? It'd be an unworkable bloated mess. Throw in the original leveling speed for good measure.
+3
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
maybe they need a profession crunch
drop the amount of levels down but still require you to start at Copper and work your way to Legion ore, and similar for other professions
Profession levels are just dumb design generally; a relic of an era when seemingly everything in RPGs needed to be measurable along a linear scale. There's nothing you need levels for that you couldn't do just as well without them, as Legion basically demonstrates
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Some professions have been obsoleted. Inscription's original purpose no longer exists, and I imagine gear would not have a chance to roll sockets if Blizzard had found some other gimmick of jewelcrafting.
Also, you can easily level crafting professions to 700 by just buying Draenor mats and going nuts. Remember doing that for Alchemy on the prepatch, took like 15 min.
Some professions have been obsoleted. Inscription's original purpose no longer exists, and I imagine gear would not have a chance to roll sockets if Blizzard had found some other gimmick of jewelcrafting.
If only there were some kind of object you could put into sockets, maybe something for your weapon, perhaps there chould be three of them?
Weapon "relics" should of just been "gems" instead and there you go, gemcrafting has a whole new purpose.
Some professions have been obsoleted. Inscription's original purpose no longer exists, and I imagine gear would not have a chance to roll sockets if Blizzard had found some other gimmick of jewelcrafting.
If only there were some kind of object you could put into sockets, maybe something for your weapon, perhaps there chould be three of them?
Weapon "relics" should of just been "gems" instead and there you go, gemcrafting has a whole new purpose.
Weirdly, there ARE some craftable relics. Engineering can make a basic Fel relic, for example. They are quickly outclassed by WQ rewards though.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
+3
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
All the professions that used to be able to make weapons can make relics as compensation for artifacts.
+1
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Got down Heroic Tichondrius today. Not as much of a DPS check as I was expecting, we beat the enrage comfortably by more than a minute and a half. Only had two Night phases total, I was expecting three.
Augur next Sunday, hopefully we can maintain one boss per raid/week progress for the next few weeks.
And we beat my expectations by downing Augur and Botanist tonight on Heroic. Two tries for Augur, six for Botanist. Took a poke at Elisande, don't think she'll be too bad.
I picked up a couple nice upgrades, which is rare as most of my gear comes from M+ right now. Sitting at a hair under 900 ilvl equipped now. I also hit 54 traits in Vengeance today, which is nice to be done with.
Edit: some of this was discussed above but I forgot to hit refresh
I'd like to see some sort of middle ground. For example:
1-99: vanilla mats
100-199: BC
200-299: Wrath
300-399: Cata
500-599: WOD
600-800: Legion
I'm not saying this is the solution we need, I'm just spitballing. Basically, have X skill points use older mats but have the largest number of skill points take place in current content. You could go even simpler and say anything that's legacy content grants you skillups to, say, 500 or 600 skill; then current content takes over.
Of course, part of the problem is that you're (still) using a skill point system that's nearly 20 years old.
What could be fun would be something like the Artifact talent system, but for crafting. You get X points every craft, and use them to buy the next recipe. Tailor your advancement for, say, gear vs. consumables or pets/mounts.
The potential is there to learn everything, but people who only want certain items don't have to learn every recipe. Yes this is essentially similar to how it was in Cata (albeit with an alternative currency from gold), but it permits as much interaction with a given profession as you desire.
I don't see why there even needs to be a leveling system for professions. What does it accomplish? I mean, I suppose it's meant to prevent people from easily switching between professions whenever they feel like it, but why does that need to be prevented?
Just tie profession level to character level and use recipes and recipe star upgrades as the gating mechanism.
All the professions that used to be able to make weapons can make relics as compensation for artifacts.
They can, but they're way too expensive for what you're getting in the end. If they had a option for at least one that started higher item-level and could be obliterium-upgraded, that'd be a start.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
0
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
All the professions that used to be able to make weapons can make relics as compensation for artifacts.
They can, but they're way too expensive for what you're getting in the end. If they had a option for at least one that started higher item-level and could be obliterium-upgraded, that'd be a start.
Don't tell that to the people on my realm, my blacksmith's crappy relics make me almost as much money as my alchemist's concoctions.
I don't see why there even needs to be a leveling system for professions. What does it accomplish? I mean, I suppose it's meant to prevent people from easily switching between professions whenever they feel like it, but why does that need to be prevented?
Just tie profession level to character level and use recipes and recipe star upgrades as the gating mechanism.
All the professions that used to be able to make weapons can make relics as compensation for artifacts.
They can, but they're way too expensive for what you're getting in the end. If they had a option for at least one that started higher item-level and could be obliterium-upgraded, that'd be a start.
Don't tell that to the people on my realm, my blacksmith's crappy relics make me almost as much money as my alchemist's concoctions.
Aren't the crafted relics something like 805 ilvl? Who is buying relics that low?
All the professions that used to be able to make weapons can make relics as compensation for artifacts.
They can, but they're way too expensive for what you're getting in the end. If they had a option for at least one that started higher item-level and could be obliterium-upgraded, that'd be a start.
Don't tell that to the people on my realm, my blacksmith's crappy relics make me almost as much money as my alchemist's concoctions.
Aren't the crafted relics something like 805 ilvl? Who is buying relics that low?
They are. Good question. Alts of loaded people is my guess.
+1
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yes, alts. You can put those relics in your artifact from day 1 which makes levelling that bit nicer. For a few grand it's a no-brainer.
0
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
A new player gets a level 100 boost that throws him on the Broken Isles straight away. And he also gets the Class Trials.
This idea of people just logging in the game and starting up on Valley of Trials seems very outdated.
What I dislike about it is it gives you a spec you might of not played and holds your hand while forcing you to play it
You mean the trial? As soon as you finish the tutorial you can switch out to whatever spec you want, without paying for the 110 boost, and before even getting off the boat. If you want to see what a prot pally or arcane mage or whatever is like, you can actually totally do that.
Jealous Deva on
0
Options
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yes, alts. You can put those relics in your artifact from day 1 which makes levelling that bit nicer. For a few grand it's a no-brainer.
Can you, though? They all say "requires level 110".
I'm sure that I've bought high level relics for a new alt. Perhaps I was buying world drops instead.
World drops have a level 101 req but go up to whatever titanforging limit exists. This is true of relics and basically any slots there are world drops for.
They are basically the new way to twink. Load up on those things and lock your level and go destroy old raids even more than usual with obscene secondary stats.
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited February 2017
The WOW Token feature that allows you to buy them with gold and add money to your battle.net balance is now live.
Token prices are skyrocketing as a result - the price increase is capped at 3% per hour and it's been rising by that amount for the last several hours. Currently at 67k, and not going to stop anytime soon because there are currently zero available for sale on many realms. If this continues for a day or so it'll be at 132k by then.
The WOW Token feature that allows you to buy them with gold and add money to your battle.net balance is now live.
Token prices are skyrocketing as a result - the price increase is capped at 3% per hour and it's been rising by that amount for the last several hours. Currently at 67k, and not going to stop anytime soon because there are currently zero available for sale on many realms. If this continues for a day or so it'll be at 132k by then.
Whelp... I did need some cash to make a Kyperium Rocket on one of my servers.
I may make some cash off that later.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Posts
Having experienced both sides of the equation, I definitely prefer the former. Gating/walls introduces scarcity for professions while keeping old mats relevant; at least in the sense of still having a need.
We can talk circles on this forever. I still haven't procced Rank 3 Whispered Pact.
The game gives him no indication that what he's doing is pointless.
How nuts would it be if bosses were unique and gone forever after someone kills them.
They're likely going to eliminate Profession skill as a thing in the next expansion, although truth be told professions in general are obsolete outside of the ones producing consumables.
Legion was the expansion where "Profession skill is not going to be a thing, you will be able to get all your Legion recipes at level 1!"
They lied.
On updates, keeping the theme of "I'm hilariously behind on dungeons", today I managed to do Kara for the first time. Turns out that you can crush the place at an 870+ group. And got a WF 860 Drape of Shame, that is still hilariously overpowered for HPallys and think that HPriests. Good enough for the HPally that killed M Gul'dan, good enough for me. As a bonus, there was a quest from NH that required to kill Mana Devourer for a toy that let's you play again all the Legion cinematics, so that's cool.
EDIT: Oh, and got the Balance of Power questline done:
It looks very pretty, and I love this tier set.
I did exactly this with Enchanting. I spent thousands, plus a ludicrous amount of time. I was... upset when I reached Legion content.
Steam: adamjnet
The idea is that when "most players" don't bother with professions, the ones who do bother get a boost from the market not being flooded.
Yes, that's exactly the point. In order for professions to be anything more than a sideshow, they have to be time consuming enough that not everyone will want to do them.
This idea of people just logging in the game and starting up on Valley of Trials seems very outdated.
In vanilla 350 skill levels worked. There was enough variety in raw materials to make the grind more interesting, and they tended to match your leveling progress. I vaguely remember herbs lasting would last somewhere between 1 and 3 zones before you moved onto the next tier, and there were a lot of herbs. With expansions the natural expansion was to throw on another 100 skill points or so and just carry on. Clearly this becomes a bit of a problem when you hit 800 skill points and skill progression is still tuned for vanilla leveling speed. I don't particularly think Blizzard's idea of just making the earlier content (and skill levels in general) irrelevant was a great idea but the whole system really needed overhauled a few expansions ago. Can you imagine if they had just carried on with the original player abilities and talent trees from vanilla onwards? It'd be an unworkable bloated mess. Throw in the original leveling speed for good measure.
drop the amount of levels down but still require you to start at Copper and work your way to Legion ore, and similar for other professions
This hyperbolic statement by one dude which has no bearing on the game itself is brought to you by a boring Saturday evening.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I laughed so freaking hard at this.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
If only there were some kind of object you could put into sockets, maybe something for your weapon, perhaps there chould be three of them?
Weapon "relics" should of just been "gems" instead and there you go, gemcrafting has a whole new purpose.
Weirdly, there ARE some craftable relics. Engineering can make a basic Fel relic, for example. They are quickly outclassed by WQ rewards though.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
And we beat my expectations by downing Augur and Botanist tonight on Heroic. Two tries for Augur, six for Botanist. Took a poke at Elisande, don't think she'll be too bad.
I picked up a couple nice upgrades, which is rare as most of my gear comes from M+ right now. Sitting at a hair under 900 ilvl equipped now. I also hit 54 traits in Vengeance today, which is nice to be done with.
I'd like to see some sort of middle ground. For example:
1-99: vanilla mats
100-199: BC
200-299: Wrath
300-399: Cata
500-599: WOD
600-800: Legion
I'm not saying this is the solution we need, I'm just spitballing. Basically, have X skill points use older mats but have the largest number of skill points take place in current content. You could go even simpler and say anything that's legacy content grants you skillups to, say, 500 or 600 skill; then current content takes over.
Of course, part of the problem is that you're (still) using a skill point system that's nearly 20 years old.
What could be fun would be something like the Artifact talent system, but for crafting. You get X points every craft, and use them to buy the next recipe. Tailor your advancement for, say, gear vs. consumables or pets/mounts.
The potential is there to learn everything, but people who only want certain items don't have to learn every recipe. Yes this is essentially similar to how it was in Cata (albeit with an alternative currency from gold), but it permits as much interaction with a given profession as you desire.
Just tie profession level to character level and use recipes and recipe star upgrades as the gating mechanism.
They can, but they're way too expensive for what you're getting in the end. If they had a option for at least one that started higher item-level and could be obliterium-upgraded, that'd be a start.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Don't tell that to the people on my realm, my blacksmith's crappy relics make me almost as much money as my alchemist's concoctions.
Or time-gate profession switches. Boom done.
Steam: adamjnet
Aren't the crafted relics something like 805 ilvl? Who is buying relics that low?
They are. Good question. Alts of loaded people is my guess.
Can you, though? They all say "requires level 110".
I'm sure that I've bought high level relics for a new alt. Perhaps I was buying world drops instead.
What I dislike about it is it gives you a spec you might of not played and holds your hand while forcing you to play it
You mean the trial? As soon as you finish the tutorial you can switch out to whatever spec you want, without paying for the 110 boost, and before even getting off the boat. If you want to see what a prot pally or arcane mage or whatever is like, you can actually totally do that.
World drops have a level 101 req but go up to whatever titanforging limit exists. This is true of relics and basically any slots there are world drops for.
They are basically the new way to twink. Load up on those things and lock your level and go destroy old raids even more than usual with obscene secondary stats.
Token prices are skyrocketing as a result - the price increase is capped at 3% per hour and it's been rising by that amount for the last several hours. Currently at 67k, and not going to stop anytime soon because there are currently zero available for sale on many realms. If this continues for a day or so it'll be at 132k by then.
Whelp... I did need some cash to make a Kyperium Rocket on one of my servers.
I may make some cash off that later.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.