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Westworld

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Posts

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    not to say that the primary reason for the inclusion of the stones track wasn't just for the gut reaction of recognition, but there is a little more to it - it plays on the phrase 'paint the town red' which has its roots in the old west, and works in concert with black hole sun and both tracks' respective lyrical content. it's establishing black as the show's consistent metaphor for meaninglessness, nihilism and even depression

    episode 2 spoliers:
    that's why the closing shot in episode 2, of the black steeple capped with a christian cross, is so interesting to me. my favourite texts are the traditionally modernist ones that explore how humans create an illusion of structure in a world devoid of it. it also lets us dig deep into ford's motivation as a creator, and, by proxy, nolan's. i had something else to say about the line where he refutes the idiom "only boring people get bored..." i've forgotten now, but it boils down to being the perfect response from this sort of character. he understands there's nothing integrally interesting or meaningful about the world around him. the question becomes as creators what kind world we craft in the absence.

    bsjezz on
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    Abdhyius
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Show is starting to lose that excellent production and pacing the first episode had.

    Like, not making it bad, but that first episode really knocked it out of the park.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    The opening credits and theme music to this show feel like they came out of an "HBO drama opening credits" autogenerator

    They are the most generic thing

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  • Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    i feel like right now i am only watching this show because i liked the movie so much

    here's hoping for a holographic yul brenner to bring me back in

    he can do a duet with hologram tupac

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    Dyvim Tvar
  • Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    See, I liked that one, not that second episode though.

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Have they done an old timey piano version of Dragula yet?

    JebusUDLegacyBucketman
  • Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Because he needs them to see things close to him, not far away.

    In the last episode when he looks at the screen he puts on his glasses.

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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    its part of his backstory

    TransporterBucketman
  • HermanoHermano Registered User regular
    Reading glasses


    PSN- AHermano
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    Sabrina from Raising Hope put on some glasses that had a bunch of digital readouts on the lenses when she was studying a Host, so it's also possible his glasses are just used for AR displays and he doesn't actually need them otherwise. Or they could just be reading glasses.

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Alright this show is getting one or two episodes tops to get its shit together and then I think I'm done.

    It's got some great (and some shitty) acting, a cool setting, some really fascinating ideas.

    But it keeps crawling way up it's own ass with mystery subplots.

    Thus far, it has the following VAGUE MYSTERIES: (spoilers)
    1. What happened to Arnold? How did he die in the park?
    2. How is Arnold connected to the malfunctioning Hosts?
    3. Who is the Man in Black?
    4. What is the Labyrinth, and why is the Man in Black pursuing it?
    5. What is Bernard's plan for Dolores?
    6. What happened to Bernard's son?
    7. Is Bernard still married to his son's mother? Does she know about his affair with Cullen?
    8. What is Ford's new storyline with Wyatt all about?
    9. What caused the Stray to go rogue like that?
    10. Why did the Stray carve constellations into wooden statues?
    11. Why did the Stray attack Stubbs and then crush its own head to prevent being studied?
    12. What is the corporation's agenda for the park that is different from just being an amusement park?

    Those are just off the top of my head.

    There's been three god damn episodes and there's at least a dozen BIG VAGUE MYSTERIES OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    and instead of answering them this show is just like

    img.jpg

    Pony on
  • 411Randle411Randle Librarian Oook.Registered User regular
    Oh for...it's the third goddamned episode! Of a planned, what did they say, five season run?

    You want answers to questions they only started asking three episodes in?

    I'm sorry, but come on, let's let some world and character building happen before we crash all the plots into each other!

    I mean, if the first season finishes and at least a couple don't get answered, fine, sure, let's complain. I'll be right there with you. But let's allow them to set the scene a bit, here.

    Besides, they did answer questions. People asked how guns work, and we found out. We also got insights into Ford and Bernard's character and the early history of the park, some more of the world's mechanics thanks to security guy and tech girl wandering around, and Dolores continues to develop into whatever she's becoming.

    Like, I'm trying to stay out of this and enjoy the show on my own, because I think it's great and smart and is offering some really unique perspectives on AI, game design, and questions of humanity, but entirely too many people are complaining that we aren't getting any answers and the show just barely started!

    1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    But Pony, I loved Lost!

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    I mean I feel like we're not even watching the show yet, you know? The real show, the multi-season story, is what happens once the Hosts are finally self-aware and have some concept of what's going on. What sort of lives do they choose for themselves? What are their conflicts? Their philosophies? Their society?

    That doesn't start until Season 2, I think. What we're watching right now is a miniseries about The Instigating Event. This season is Genesis, and everything that comes after is the real meat.

    And I'm cool with that! That's how Battlestar Galactica did it (opening miniseries, followed by a more long-term structure). And I loved BSG, despite the polarizing ending. They're even dealing with similar themes to BSG, so maybe it makes sense that they could take some cues from it.

    More to the point, I am 100% on-board with them having big, vague mysteries at this stage of the game. I think Jon Snow was just arriving at the Wall in episode 3, so maybe we can give them some time to develop their story. :lol:

    LegacyHermano411RandleKetarKana
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Zonugal wrote: »
    But Pony, I loved Lost!

    And I didn't!

    Lost has a smell, and for some people, that's a nice smell. Like a flavour they enjoy! For others, like me, it's a funk.

    I also hated BSG. Specifically, I hated how BSG turned out after the first couple seasons when it was revealed Ronald D. Moore had no plan and was just making shit up as he went.

    Pony on
  • MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    I'm happy that Trevor from GTA V found a new game to be in and is getting more screen time with the latest episode.

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  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Cross postin my thoughts from the GnT Westworld thread.
    So, one random thought, that I think the opening credits spoil
    I am 100% sure Delores is eventually going to become this Westworld's gunslinger/Woman in Black. I mean, that was already pretty obvious, but the whole woman riding a pale horse in all black kind of solidifies it, since she's the only female host with that possibility

    I am pretty sure I am super biased watching this week to week, as I am so in love with the setting every bit of information about the park is riveting television for me , and seeing Anthony Hopkins bring it, is amazing.

    So on Episode 3.
    I am, 1000% sure Ford is playing both sides for his new narrative. He "let slip" that there was a line of programming that his "old partner" put into the machines that made them here a godvoice, and then makes a character who's going around killing because he hears a godvoice.

    And his whole "Just THINGS" speech was to force them into that state of mind, in order to illicit a greater reaction when they become more than "just things".

    Possibly to fuck with the shareholders and continue his old partners work before he dies/retires

    Matevautono-wally, erotibot300Bucketman
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    I think some of the mysteries noted aren't really mysteries, just implied things that inform motivations
    For example, I could have told you Bernard lost his kid from episode 1. Why doesn't matter, (until it does matter, but there's not enough to make that a thing yet) what matters is that's his drive for working at Westworld. His overarching goal is either to build a new version of his son with a Host body or he uses the Hosts as surrogates for his son. (See: his paternal relationship with Delores)

    As to actual mystery:
    The company, aside from the money Westworld makes, likely wants AI (or something like it) for some purpose. Or they want this place as a human behavior ant farm.

    The woodcutter/stray had more clues to the Maze, which is being triggered by the Man in Black searching for it. He thinks it's the most hidden storyline in the game. It's likely a map by Arnold to some hidden cache or database which he created before his death. (Company killed him cause he came too close to giving the Hosts true sentience, or the Hosts killed him and they covered it up) my initial thought that he was a corporate spy still exists, but is much smaller. MiB is likely just an old hat trying squeeze one final drop of sensation from the game.

    Ford's storyline is almost certainly an endgame for himself, not sure why yet.

    I thought Teddy was going to be the Gunslinger at 1st, but I dig the idea of Delores being the one to essentially start the revolution.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    411Randle wrote: »
    Oh for...it's the third goddamned episode! Of a planned, what did they say, five season run?

    You want answers to questions they only started asking three episodes in?

    I'm sorry, but come on, let's let some world and character building happen before we crash all the plots into each other!

    I mean, if the first season finishes and at least a couple don't get answered, fine, sure, let's complain. I'll be right there with you. But let's allow them to set the scene a bit, here.

    Besides, they did answer questions. People asked how guns work, and we found out. We also got insights into Ford and Bernard's character and the early history of the park, some more of the world's mechanics thanks to security guy and tech girl wandering around, and Dolores continues to develop into whatever she's becoming.

    Like, I'm trying to stay out of this and enjoy the show on my own, because I think it's great and smart and is offering some really unique perspectives on AI, game design, and questions of humanity, but entirely too many people are complaining that we aren't getting any answers and the show just barely started!

    I am not other people. I don't need answers immediately. I want them to ask less questions.

    Mystery subplots in and of themselves do not add more interest and intrigue if you don't stick the landing, and historically television shows (especially shows made by the Bad Robot production company) hit a critical mass on these mystery subplots and then shit the bed hard.

    Constantly making the viewer go "That only raises further questions!" like Hermes from Futurama is not good TV writing, contrary to what Damon Lindelof believes. At a certain point it's just nonsense.

    This show is getting danger close to that point for me. It's got one more episode. I don't trust Jonathan Nolan or JJ Abrams or HBO. This isn't even about answering pre-existing mysteries. They can tease those out over longer arcs. This is they need to stop adding more questions. This show has enough for now. Let it chew on those.

    This is a personal taste issue. Some people liked BSG and Lost and Alias and Fringe, all the way to end when it was really clear they were pulling wadded shitty tissue paper out of their ass instead of writing stories. I, clearly, am biased against that.

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Pony wrote: »
    Alright this show is getting one or two episodes tops to get its shit together and then I think I'm done.

    It's got some great (and some shitty) acting, a cool setting, some really fascinating ideas.

    But it keeps crawling way up it's own ass with mystery subplots.

    Thus far, it has the following VAGUE MYSTERIES: (spoilers)
    1. What happened to Arnold? How did he die in the park?
    2. How is Arnold connected to the malfunctioning Hosts?
    3. Who is the Man in Black?
    4. What is the Labyrinth, and why is the Man in Black pursuing it?
    5. What is Bernard's plan for Dolores?
    6. What happened to Bernard's son?
    7. Is Bernard still married to his son's mother? Does she know about his affair with Cullen?
    8. What is Ford's new storyline with Wyatt all about?
    9. What caused the Stray to go rogue like that?
    10. Why did the Stray carve constellations into wooden statues?
    11. Why did the Stray attack Stubbs and then crush its own head to prevent being studied?
    12. What is the corporation's agenda for the park that is different from just being an amusement park?

    Those are just off the top of my head.

    There's been three god damn episodes and there's at least a dozen BIG VAGUE MYSTERIES OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    and instead of answering them this show is just like

    img.jpg

    If it's anything like Person of Interest, it will all be explained in the end, make sense, and even the wildest things you thought were off-hand remarks will have meaning

    I really like PoI, can you tell?
    Pony wrote: »
    411Randle wrote: »
    Oh for...it's the third goddamned episode! Of a planned, what did they say, five season run?

    You want answers to questions they only started asking three episodes in?

    I'm sorry, but come on, let's let some world and character building happen before we crash all the plots into each other!

    I mean, if the first season finishes and at least a couple don't get answered, fine, sure, let's complain. I'll be right there with you. But let's allow them to set the scene a bit, here.

    Besides, they did answer questions. People asked how guns work, and we found out. We also got insights into Ford and Bernard's character and the early history of the park, some more of the world's mechanics thanks to security guy and tech girl wandering around, and Dolores continues to develop into whatever she's becoming.

    Like, I'm trying to stay out of this and enjoy the show on my own, because I think it's great and smart and is offering some really unique perspectives on AI, game design, and questions of humanity, but entirely too many people are complaining that we aren't getting any answers and the show just barely started!

    I am not other people. I don't need answers immediately. I want them to ask less questions.

    Mystery subplots in and of themselves do not add more interest and intrigue if you don't stick the landing, and historically television shows (especially shows made by the Bad Robot production company) hit a critical mass on these mystery subplots and then shit the bed hard.

    Constantly making the viewer go "That only raises further questions!" like Hermes from Futurama is not good TV writing, contrary to what Damon Lindelof believes. At a certain point it's just nonsense.

    This show is getting danger close to that point for me. It's got one more episode. I don't trust Jonathan Nolan or JJ Abrams or HBO. This isn't even about answering pre-existing mysteries. They can tease those out over longer arcs. This is they need to stop adding more questions. This show has enough for now. Let it chew on those.

    This is a personal taste issue. Some people liked BSG and Lost and Alias and Fringe, all the way to end when it was really clear they were pulling wadded shitty tissue paper out of their ass instead of writing stories. I, clearly, am biased against that.

    As I wrote above, person of interest was not like that. It had an overarching goal from the beginning, or at least it looked like that very convincingly.

    I agree with you that what BSG and Lost did (Only watched BSG, not Lost) annoyed me to no end, because it retroactively meant
    that all the mystery was just bullshit made up as they went, completely useless and without meaning

    But person of interest had a goal and a story it tried to tell, questions it wanted to ask.

    Now whether you like that story or think those questions are interesting, that is a very valid point and should colour your liking of this series.

    But I don't think this story is made up along the way

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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    JacobkoshKetar
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    nvm

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • LegacyLegacy Stuck Somewhere In Cyberspace The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Pony, give it until episode 5 maybe?
    They only screened up to episode 4 for critics/reviewers. Maybe that's all they had done, maybe things really start going after 4? I dunno.

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Btw, the final episode of the first season is 91 minutes long

    They will do some 'splainin'

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Yah, shit's gonna go crazy in that episode. With as slow burn as it's been so far, it pretty much has to.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Btw, the final episode of the first season is 91 minutes long

    They will do some 'splainin'

    what if it's 91 minutes of questions????!???!????????

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  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    I was going to type in 91 question marks but just couldn't commit to the bit

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I felt like this episode started to hit the "too many questions" point.

  • VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    Don't answer a single 'nother question this season.

    Fill up this here ponder box till it overfloweth with rumination.

    HermanoHacksaw
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Tube wrote: »
    I haaaaaaaaate pop music in soundtracks so I don't like the thing everyone thinks is awesome. I'm so special. I don't see what it adds other than "I know that! That's a song I know!" and the vocal line from Paint It Black doesn't really suit being made an instrumental melody.
    I think it's gimmicky and dumb, and I don't get why people think it's great
    Mr. G wrote: »
    The opening credits and theme music to this show feel like they came out of an "HBO drama opening credits" autogenerator

    They are the most generic thing
    Is it weird that I immediately said "urgh, it's the GoT guy, right" when the intro of the first ep played

    el_vicio on
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  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    there was nothing about this episode that seemed like a deep dark potentially unsolvable mystery. everything was in its right place.
    the sergeant / "wyatt's" story is even perhaps already anti-climactic to me, if anything, as it's clear ford's going for a heart of darkness influenced narrative with it. maybe a bit more canonical than i was imagining when i thought the show was going straight modernist, but it's nothing if not intertextual. the arnold stuff is already sort of self-validating, if only because it allowed some very interesting philosophy about applying outmoded theories of the mind into new attempts at artificial intelligence.

    these aren't even distinct subplots, by the way: something about ford's new narrative re-started the hosts' illusion that a part of consciousness is the voice of a god, probably because ford wanted a good ol' kurtz style schizophrenic and arnold had accidentally stumbled upon the perfect configuration for that years ago. my concerns about this stuff are a bit more about integrity: not how it might hold together with what may or may not be revealed later, but with what was already revealed. maybe the idea that ford was so derisive of episode 2's cannibalistic DLC only to go off and write a plot which includes the living dismembered tied to trees came off as a little odd. but ford's an interesting character, and his outbursts seem to be more about inner anger and personal frustrations. so it's probably fine.

    this continues to be an exceptionally well-written television show. i understand for a bunch of reasons why people might not like it, it's very much an intellectual exercise, and dripping with creative pretensions. but i love that shit, it makes for fantastic sci-fi.

    sC4Q4nq.jpg
    ZonugalFawst
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    I still like most of the show, but there's a lot of ham in there.
    Like, Alice in Wonderland, really?

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    I still like most of the show, but there's a lot of ham in there.
    Like, Alice in Wonderland, really?

    This is what you sign up for when you come aboard anything with a Nolan's name on it

    6F32U1X.png
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    im so fucking intruiged by this and super fucking into this


    I know this isn't a very interesting post
    I just needed to shout this somewhere.

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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    I still like most of the show, but there's a lot of ham in there.
    Like, Alice in Wonderland, really?

    This is what you sign up for when you come aboard anything with a Nolan's name on it

    Well
    shit

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    I will say as much as I'm being really negative about all the mysteries this show is introducing per episode, there's still a lot of cool shit going on I really like and it's a fascinating, thought-provoking show.

    They just need to simmer down and slow-burn a little, let us mull over the stories they've introduced thus far and let those play out, instead of introducing more plot-threads. Finish your dinner instead of adding two more breakfasts and six desserts, show.

  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular

    The Next Picture Show, a podcast made up of former Dissolve staffers, aka the best film critics around these days, are doing their episodes this week comparing the original movie to what's been seen so far of the series

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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Bets on (Ep3 forward)
    Ed Harris being Arnold?

    while I'm at it, here's a dumb thing from ep3
    the tech lady sneakily pockets the turtle carving, making sure she isn't seen doing it - and holds it in her hand, plain as day, in the next scene. Why even hide it

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

    Medium DaveJacobkoshBucketman
  • DimosarDimosar I am the Brain Genius Registered User regular
    God, what must it be like running QA for Westworld

    "you need to ask the sheriff what time it is over and over again for the next hour, one of the guests reported a bug yesterday"

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    I'm not worried about mysteries not being answered. Creatively, this is a Jonathan Nolan show, not a Damon Lindelof show, and Person of Interest was a CBS crime procedural that was nonetheless more rigorously- and conscientiously-plotted over its run than most cable prestige dramas and which ended with a level of narrative and thematic satisfaction that's hard or borderline impossible to do if you're just winging it.

    That said, I'm not super unsympathetic to the idea that there are "too many mysteries" even if I have one hundred percent confidence that they have answers and will be paid off (which I do). I think episode 3 in particular had a bit of, as someone in D&D put it, the Game of Thrones vibe of "let's check in on every character for 2 minutes." It's possible that trying to spin too many plates at once could become an issue - but I think a side-effect of having a solid framework of plot is that there's less temptation for the storyteller to tediously spool things out in an effort to buy themselves time to figure out what happens next.

    Basically I think that, like, one or two of the mysteries Pony listed are going to be show-length ones, and a few more may take multiple seasons to play out, but others will be resolved by the end of this first season, and some of those may well be answered in the next few episodes.

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    KetarHacksaw
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