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Westworld

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.
    One major stumbling block in this theory for me is:
    That all of the hosts are all advanced and life-like as heck in the William/Logan storyline and Logan has said he's been through the park at least once before

    according to the MiB and the old cowpoke Ford visits, the old models were not nearly as lifelike as they appear in the William/Logan storyline and are much more primitive and mechanical

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  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    That theory is lame and it would be lame if it was true
    Delores has flashbacks of the MiB in the barn before she breaks script and escapes to join William. If this is an editing fakeout then it is hugely disrespectful to the audience.

    Also I'd have to rewatch to check, but I remember there being an administrator who brings up Delores breaking script and sends people to check it out to see if she's with a guest. I don't remember which admin this was, but if it's one of the standard set that we see elsewhere talking about the MiB then that's another knock against the theory

    The whole theory just seems to be a huge reach with the motivation for even looking for that theory is that the MiB is so far unnamed

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    That theory is lame and it would be lame if it was true
    Delores has flashbacks of the MiB in the barn before she breaks script and escapes to join William. If this is an editing fakeout then it is hugely disrespectful to the audience.

    Also I'd have to rewatch to check, but I remember there being an administrator who brings up Delores breaking script and sends people to check it out to see if she's with a host. I don't remember which admin this was, but if it's one of the standard set that we see elsewhere talking about the MiB then that's another knock against the theory
    Yeah, there's a scene where...oh god what's his name, the Security Director who looks like Matt Damon's cousin is told and he lets her go because he has a soft spot for Dolores

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.
    One major stumbling block in this theory for me is:
    That all of the hosts are all advanced and life-like as heck in the William/Logan storyline and Logan has said he's been through the park at least once before

    according to the MiB and the old cowpoke Ford visits, the old models were not nearly as lifelike as they appear in the William/Logan storyline and are much more primitive and mechanical
    I think the timelines are concurrent because of that: if Billy and Logan were in the park 30ish years before MiB, the hosts would likely be less convincingly lifelike and more noticeably animatronic. The hosts being previously more stiff and robotic in their behavior is a tidbit mentioned by multiple sources across many of the aired episodes, and observed in at least one retired host.

    BlankZoeKanaSnicketysnick
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
    Zonugal
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack
    Wait for real

    How many goddamn Hemsworths are there

    CYpGAPn.png
    BucketmanJacques L'HommeOlivaw
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    personally i think that's a fun idea because it's really convoluted and almost makes sense in a logical way (but not actually in a storytelling way atm, because just...why) and i'll be glad for it to not be true

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack

    god damn! I knew something was familiar about that guy!

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack
    Wait for real

    How many goddamn Hemsworths are there

    there are 3

    this one is luke, he is the oldest of the brothers, and i know this because 4 years ago i made an MS paint collage in his honor at work one day because he was still on Australian soaps while his two younger bros had hit it big in the states

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Kinda not sure I'm gunna watch this week to week. I'm really trying to give the whole first season a fair shake. But boy oh boy are these episodes kinda just unrelated scenes just kinda happening. Sort of the same problem of GoT as far as just dropping in on stuff with not cohesion. But couple that with the fact that everyone's motivation/backstory is deliberately vague it's harder for me to get my foot in the door.

    It's also odd that I drastically enjoy the theme and subtext where finding the actual text kind of badly written? Like the dialogue here (especially outside of the actual park) is really rough. Sort of freshman level stuff of throwing in "fuck" a lot to sound GROWN UP.

    But like visually and stylistically it's fantastic, but I need some more story with my plot.

    Gustav on
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    PoorochondriacRichardRorshach Kringle
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack
    Wait for real

    How many goddamn Hemsworths are there

    there are 3

    this one is luke, he is the oldest of the brothers, and i know this because 4 years ago i made an MS paint collage in his honor at work one day because he was still on Australian soaps while his two younger bros had hit it big in the states
    Mitch you're a weirdbeard and I love you

    CYpGAPn.png
    BucketmanKwoaruOmnipotentBagelStiltsOlivaw
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.

    Well on that last point
    What if Delores "Woke Up" and became self aware and not a damsel, but they "fixed" her and put in Teddy and she is somehow remembering it now, so were sort of seeing her flash backs

    Lord Dave
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    One major stumbling block in this theory for me is:
    That all of the hosts are all advanced and life-like as heck in the William/Logan storyline and Logan has said he's been through the park at least once before

    according to the MiB and the old cowpoke Ford visits, the old models were not nearly as lifelike as they appear in the William/Logan storyline and are much more primitive and mechanical
    In the most recent episode, MiB mentions that he opened up a host during one of his early (first?) visits, and they were mechanical inside but that the modern ones are organic. So far, a host hasn't been opened up when William is around. The old cowpoke also shows that they at least looked human on the outside way back then.

    Additionally, even though they appear normal to the audience, Logan seems fairly adept at telling who is a host and who isn't, and even William has noticed on a few occasions.

    I would say that for the theory to work the park needs to have been open for at least a few years after the death of Arnold, so maybe something like Arnold died 35 years ago and William & Logan visit 30 years ago (with Logan having previously visited even earlier). Though that would mean the park was in financial freefall for 5 years (though that's better than the 35 years it would be if their story was concurrent with MiB's).

    As for the old cowpoke himself, we don't know if he's from when the park was open or from those early years where it was just Ford and Arnold working on things before it opened. Alternatively, he could be like that due to his age (and not having all his parts swapped out like Delores did) causing him to be a lot more run down now a days.

  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    At my Halloween get away we talked about how there are just countless Hemsworths made in a factory. Each to be relegated to a different genre. So we have Superhero Hemsworth, Sci-Fi/Western Hemsworth, and YA Dystopia Hemsworth so far.

    I'm holding out for Art House Hemsworth.

    Gustav on
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    HacksawBucketmanZonugal
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    The end of this is just going to be Five Nights at Freddy's style with the last few humans in the park trying to outrun/outsmart the robots.

    And theres just an organic exoskeleton chasing them.

  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    The dialogue in this show is really bad

    It says a lot when I actually like it MORE when they're talking boilerplate philosophy

    6F32U1X.png
    Gustav
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Luke Hemsworth is the "third Summers brother" of the Hemsworths

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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    The dialogue in this show is really bad

    It says a lot when I actually like it MORE when they're talking boilerplate philosophy

    Yeah. So bad that a cast of this pedigree is having one HELL of a time with it.

    aGPmIBD.jpg
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack
    Wait for real

    How many goddamn Hemsworths are there

    there are 3

    this one is luke, he is the oldest of the brothers, and i know this because 4 years ago i made an MS paint collage in his honor at work one day because he was still on Australian soaps while his two younger bros had hit it big in the states
    Mitch you're a weirdbeard and I love you

    it said "Look out world! I'm Luke"
    Gustav wrote: »
    Kinda not sure I'm gunna watch this week to week. I'm really trying to give the whole first season a fair shake. But boy oh boy are these episodes kinda just unrelated scenes just kinda happening. Sort of the same problem of GoT as far as just dropping in on stuff with not cohesion. But couple that with the fact that everyone's motivation/backstory is deliberately vague it's harder for me to get my foot in the door.

    It's also odd that I drastically enjoy the theme and subtext where finding the actual text kind of badly written? Like the dialogue here (especially outside of the actual park) is really rough. Sort of freshman level stuff of throwing in "fuck" a lot to sound GROWN UP.

    But like visually and stylistically it's fantastic, but I need some more story with my plot.

    yeah i was pretty closely aligned with you up til the most recent ep, which did a good little bit to pull me back in. It didn't necessarily do anything about the dialogue or the fact that too many of the characters are bland blobs of nice costuming in my mind

    but during last ep i just started seeing ed harris not as a "mysterious sadistic badass" but as a huge fucking nerd who loves his super LARP and it did something for my enjoyment of the show

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    the security director is a HEMSWORTH and you will address him as fucking such, zack
    Wait for real

    How many goddamn Hemsworths are there

    there are 3

    this one is luke, he is the oldest of the brothers, and i know this because 4 years ago i made an MS paint collage in his honor at work one day because he was still on Australian soaps while his two younger bros had hit it big in the states
    Mitch you're a weirdbeard and I love you

    it said "Look out world! I'm Luke"
    Gustav wrote: »
    Kinda not sure I'm gunna watch this week to week. I'm really trying to give the whole first season a fair shake. But boy oh boy are these episodes kinda just unrelated scenes just kinda happening. Sort of the same problem of GoT as far as just dropping in on stuff with not cohesion. But couple that with the fact that everyone's motivation/backstory is deliberately vague it's harder for me to get my foot in the door.

    It's also odd that I drastically enjoy the theme and subtext where finding the actual text kind of badly written? Like the dialogue here (especially outside of the actual park) is really rough. Sort of freshman level stuff of throwing in "fuck" a lot to sound GROWN UP.

    But like visually and stylistically it's fantastic, but I need some more story with my plot.

    yeah i was pretty closely aligned with you up til the most recent ep, which did a good little bit to pull me back in. It didn't necessarily do anything about the dialogue or the fact that too many of the characters are bland blobs of nice costuming in my mind

    but during last ep i just started seeing ed harris not as a "mysterious sadistic badass" but as a huge fucking nerd who loves his super LARP and it did something for my enjoyment of the show

    Basically if there's an actual reason for stuff to be so mysterious I might still be on board. But if it's just holding the cards for TWISTS AND SURPRISES and general obfuscation I'm out.

    Even if some of the theories floating around ARE true it should be more of a structural sleight of hand and not need the characters to all be Dogen from the Temple in Lost.

    Gustav on
    aGPmIBD.jpg
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    The dialogue in this show is really bad

    It says a lot when I actually like it MORE when they're talking boilerplate philosophy

    Yeah. So bad that a cast of this pedigree is having one HELL of a time with it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfkqGyx-rEw

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    KanaMatev
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    The dialogue isn't naturalistic but I like it

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    The dialogue has a romanticized western feel to it. I like it.

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  • MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    We talk like that all the time in game dev. We're also all about that Gnosticism.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Yeah it is some Nolan-ass dialogue but I enjoy it a bunch

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    What the dialogue is doing is this modern Western thing of being this flowery, discursive, epistolary style of speech, the sort of thing where gap-toothed bandit goes "welcome to mah unprepossessin' abode". I personally kind of find that contrast delightful and I enjoy people playing with arch, theatrical dialogue in general.

    But this thing where it turns up a lot in modern Westerns is really interesting to me as a phenomenon because I feel like it's a relatively recent development. You see it in, like, Deadwood and Open Range and Unforgiven but not in, like, 50s Westerns, where characters talked basically like 50s people ("Gee, dad Pa, why can't I go to the malt shop general store?") or spaghetti Westerns, where they barely spoke at all.

    So what is the origin of it? I'm sure Cormac McCarthy and Larry McMurtry's books probably have something to do with it, because God knows how many future screenwriters read those things, but I personally kind of like the idea that Ken Burns' The Civil War maybe popularized it, or got audiences used to the idea that this is what "old-timey" sounds like.

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  • Lord DaveLord Dave Grief Causer Bitch Free ZoneRegistered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.

    Well on that last point
    What if Delores "Woke Up" and became self aware and not a damsel, but they "fixed" her and put in Teddy and she is somehow remembering it now, so were sort of seeing her flash backs
    Person of Interest was the story of an advanced AI slowly reaching sentience, and having to teach itself its own history over and over because it wasn't supposed to remember.
    In one of the final episodes it lost the ability to keep track of time and was experiencing all the history it knew concurrently.
    So...

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    Bucketman
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Yeah it is some Nolan-ass dialogue but I enjoy it a bunch

    Honestly it all reads a lot more like Jonathan Hickman comic than a Nolan joint.

    The dialogue in Nolan films broadcast what the characters are saying VERY loudly. Almost to a fault (though I'm a huge mark for Nolan)

    The dialogue here is more continual foreshadowing and hinting. It doesn't say much, but alludes to a lot.

    I just need faith it's actually alluding to something.

    Gustav on
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    Theodore FlooseveltOlivaw
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    The dialogue between the robots is fine

    Anthony Hopkins, Jeffrey Wright, Jimmi Simpson, and Ed Harris are fine

    I do not like when any of the other "modern" people are talking

    Like the bro-y repairman in this recent episode or the banter between the lady tech and The Hemsworth a few weeks ago, it's the worst

    They are unbelievably bad at casual conversation dialogue, bad enough that the show should be banned from using the word "fuck" forever

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    GustavTheodore FlooseveltMedium DaveMatevAistan
  • MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    BdVvFJu.jpg
    hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    I think Logan is probably one of the most human and believable characters on the show. I mean, he's an unrepentant bag of shit, but that's pretty believable for the kind of rich corporate asshole who would go to this park and do this shit.

    The way he talks and acts is 100% natural for basically anyone who has every played multiplayer GTA or Red Dead Redemption

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  • CenoCeno pizza time Registered User regular
    I'm just not feeling this show

    Don't know why

    It should be hitting all the right buttons for me

    GustavRichard
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.

    Well on that last point
    What if Delores "Woke Up" and became self aware and not a damsel, but they "fixed" her and put in Teddy and she is somehow remembering it now, so were sort of seeing her flash backs
    Person of Interest was the story of an advanced AI slowly reaching sentience, and having to teach itself its own history over and over because it wasn't supposed to remember.
    In one of the final episodes it lost the ability to keep track of time and was experiencing all the history it knew concurrently.
    So...

    Man I really liked Person of Interest. If this show does AI and consciousness even better, it's gonna be a treat

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    MugginsDevlin_Dragonus
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS90RLeWILY
    I just learned that this Stephen Malkmus song I've very much enjoyed for years is about* Yul Brenner in the original movie

    *as much as any Stephen Malkmus song is about anything

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  • BigPointyTeethBigPointyTeeth run away! run away! MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I think my favorite thing so far with the MiB is that he's been plowing through everything in his search, but when he came across content he hadn't seen
    the jail breakout
    he played along, had fun with it, made a spectacle of it instead of taking the easy, shoot everyone, path

    BucketmanHermanoMatevTheodore FlooseveltA Dabble Of TheloniusNiryaAistanCantideel_vicioDoctorArchJacques L'HommeBear_thescondOlivawFawst
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    I think my favorite thing so far with the MiB is that he's been plowing through everything in his search, but when he came across content he hadn't seen
    the jail breakout
    he played along, had fun with it, made a spectacle of it instead of taking the easy, shoot everyone, path

    When he heard
    Armistice

    telling her back story he listened and played along instead of mashing skip cutscene as fast possible

    Al_watJacobkoshautono-wally, erotibot300HermanoMatevTheodore FlooseveltA Dabble Of TheloniusBlankZoeNiryaAistanCantideDoctorArchTofystedethJacques L'HommeDimosarDedwrekkaOlivawmasterofmetroidFawst
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    the stuff he hasn't already seen/done 20 times before is what keeps him coming back.

  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    I was rewatching episode 2 with that theory in mind and I'd definitely consider it far more plausible now. A lot of the narrative beats, particularly at scene transitions, kinda fit in that regard.

    I'd be fine either way as long as they keep it interesting.

  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Like, the robots gaining sentience stuff and Ford wanting to be God is sort of cool, just give me more Wild West LARP with the Man in Black please, like that's the genuine good stuff of this show for me.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    I really like the glimpses we get of the game of Westworld: Teddy and Dolores, Lawrence, Armitage, Wyatt and so forth. Even knowing that it's not "real", which is to say, it's one order of magnitude less real than the events of the show in general, the rhythms of storytelling - the slow drip of information, the escalation of stakes, the revelation of character - manages to be interesting in its own right. I was still surprised and excited to learn that Lawrence betrayed the Confederados, for instance, even though none of that "matters." I'm interested that I had that reaction and I wonder if it says something about the degree to which we're keyed to accept narrative and view the world through that light.

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    Shazkar ShadowstormBlankZoeKanaTheodore FlooseveltPonyMatevCantideBucketmanTofystedeth
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