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Westworld

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  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.
    One major stumbling block in this theory for me is:
    That all of the hosts are all advanced and life-like as heck in the William/Logan storyline and Logan has said he's been through the park at least once before

    according to the MiB and the old cowpoke Ford visits, the old models were not nearly as lifelike as they appear in the William/Logan storyline and are much more primitive and mechanical
    In the flashback where they show some testing of the hosts, among the ones shown are Armistice (snake tattoo lady) and the host that greets William and helps get him ready to enter the park. (Both are dressed very differently to how we otherwise see them, so it's easy to miss.) So specifically Armistice, who interacts with the MiB in the definite current timeline, has been operational since before the park opened. We've also been told that Dolores is around 30 years old, right? And the hosts passed the Turing Test before the park opened, so... Old Bill isn't necessarily an accurate representation of what hosts were like 30 years prior.

    CantideBucketman
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I haven't watched it yet, but Nerdwriter is talking Westworld

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSGkGKwp9U

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  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    it's mostly showing how good of an actor anthony hopkins is

    which

    yep

    he is goddamn great

    poo
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  • GizzyGizzy i am a cat PhoenixRegistered User regular
    Secret robots
    I've already been wondering if some of the "real people" are actually robots. Then I got confused when I saw all those robots punching Logan in the face after discovering the nitro mixup (they aren't supposed to hurt humans??) - so now I think Logan might actually be a robot.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Gizzy wrote: »
    Secret robots
    I've already been wondering if some of the "real people" are actually robots. Then I got confused when I saw all those robots punching Logan in the face after discovering the nitro mixup (they aren't supposed to hurt humans??) - so now I think Logan might actually be a robot.
    They're not supposed to kill you. Hurting you abit is fine. Especially since they went and wandered into a high level end game area where the Hosts don't sit back and -let- you kill them.

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  • DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Gizzy wrote: »
    Secret robots
    I've already been wondering if some of the "real people" are actually robots. Then I got confused when I saw all those robots punching Logan in the face after discovering the nitro mixup (they aren't supposed to hurt humans??) - so now I think Logan might actually be a robot.
    They're not supposed to kill you. Hurting you abit is fine. Especially since they went and wandered into a high level end game area where the Hosts don't sit back and -let- you kill them.
    I would be suprised if the Clean up crew aren't robots, the hosts and hostesses that meet the clients are. And from a corporate standpoint: why employ a human when you can employ a robot that never gets sick or depressed (lugging around life-like dead humans all day every day sounds pretty depressing to me).

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  • AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
  • RandomEncounterRandomEncounter Registered User regular
    It's nanomachines, son

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    All the brothel girls breathe through their skin

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    All the brothel girls breathe through their skin

    But... the gold paint...

  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    They died right after that

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  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    I think I'd watch this show just for Ed Harris. He spent multiple episodes just pontificating to Lawrence and it was fantastic. I just really hope the writers give some solid meat to sink into for the next couple episodes. If they keep just giving us "oooh isn't this another crazy mystery?" crap I'm gonna lose my interest soon. I made it two seasons into Lost, I don't have the patience for it again.

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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    So by the end of the season will that piano have ran through all of OK Computer or what

    6F32U1X.png
    el_vicio
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.
    One major stumbling block in this theory for me is:
    That all of the hosts are all advanced and life-like as heck in the William/Logan storyline and Logan has said he's been through the park at least once before

    according to the MiB and the old cowpoke Ford visits, the old models were not nearly as lifelike as they appear in the William/Logan storyline and are much more primitive and mechanical
    In the flashback where they show some testing of the hosts, among the ones shown are Armistice (snake tattoo lady) and the host that greets William and helps get him ready to enter the park. (Both are dressed very differently to how we otherwise see them, so it's easy to miss.) So specifically Armistice, who interacts with the MiB in the definite current timeline, has been operational since before the park opened. We've also been told that Dolores is around 30 years old, right? And the hosts passed the Turing Test before the park opened, so... Old Bill isn't necessarily an accurate representation of what hosts were like 30 years prior.
    Also I would be totally willing to buy that the "flashback" parts, if they are, indeed, that, are being filtered through Delores' memory and, as such, the hosts seem more lifelike to us because our unreliable narrator was programmed to see them as real people.

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  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    Westworld tonight
    that looked like the Gunslinger in the basement level

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Good episode! Not as great as last week but shit is definitely starting to move

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Really? Really!? (Most recent ep spoilers)
    Instead of turning in the possible nascent AI that's blackmailing you and likely getting to keep your job, if not a decent severance, you decide to listen to her and bump her intelligence up past the recommended parameters. You idiots likely made her smarter than you at this point. (Though she probably already was to begin with) Those chop-shop idiots are worst.

    So why is Cullen transmitting data out of the park, that part doesn't make sense yet.

    Oh look, the return of Sizemore nobody wanted or asked for.

    Matev on
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    el_vicio
  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    I still cannot get over how everybody works in glass rooms but never ever look around, what the hell.

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    I still cannot get over how everybody works in glass rooms but never ever look around, what the hell.

    Crap, don't make me think about that, it'll start bugging me every "back of the house" scene.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited November 2016
    Matev wrote: »
    Really? Really!? (Most recent ep spoilers)
    So why is Cullen transmitting data out of the park, that part doesn't make sense yet.
    I suspect it's to do with the Delos corporation's real agenda that she alluded to in her conversation with Sizemore in episode 1. The corporation as a whole, or someone on the board, is up to something that's either top secret or illegal.

    As for what that is, I have no idea and I don't think we've really been given any clues one way or the other, but obviously certain things suggest themselves - true AI development, killbot weapons testing, some kind of long-term social experiment, or something.

    Jacobkosh on
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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Uh
    so when some dude fucks a bot in a back room, people notice, but when a host saunters through several stories of the complex, the cameras don't pick it up, nobody in their glass cubicles gets suspicious, nothing? Oh yeah, why would they, they can't because plot. So superdumb. As are the tech dudes not simply decomissioning Maeve. That I can sort of buy though, Asian dude gets pushed around, the other guy got threatened. Still. So dumb. So, so dumb.

    el_vicio on
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    LordSolarMacharius
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Uh
    so when some dude fucks a bot in a back room, people notice, but when a host saunters through several stories of the complex, the cameras don't pick it up, nobody in their glass cubicles gets suspicious, nothing? Oh yeah, why would they, they can't because plot. So superdumb. As are the tech dudes not simply decomissioning Maeve. That I can sort of buy though, Asian dude gets pushed around, the other guy got threatened. Still. So dumb. So, so dumb.
    I'm not entirely sure what upsets you about this. "The cameras don't pick it up" - who says they didn't? Why ought cameras figure into this at all? Maeve wasn't visibly doing anything out of the ordinary - she walked around robotically, accompanied by a pair of techs, and traveled through areas we've already seen Hosts in. Despite this, both men were visibly nervous, probably because all it would have taken to bust them would be someone asking them their business.

    I feel like that communicates the ins and outs of the situation fairly straightforwardly. We don't actually need to cut to a shot of the security room and a guard going "nothing to see here."

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  • knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Uh
    so when some dude fucks a bot in a back room, people notice, but when a host saunters through several stories of the complex, the cameras don't pick it up, nobody in their glass cubicles gets suspicious, nothing? Oh yeah, why would they, they can't because plot. So superdumb. As are the tech dudes not simply decomissioning Maeve. That I can sort of buy though, Asian dude gets pushed around, the other guy got threatened. Still. So dumb. So, so dumb.

    Presumably
    That's why he put her in a dress. Nobody bats an eye because she looks perfectly human, she's not one of those naked things down in the basement.

    Plus he had his tablet out the whole time so unless he got stopped by someone in the know, he could probably have played it off.

    And the reason all the other workers don't notice anything is they're engrossed in their own work.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Uh
    so when some dude fucks a bot in a back room, people notice, but when a host saunters through several stories of the complex, the cameras don't pick it up, nobody in their glass cubicles gets suspicious, nothing? Oh yeah, why would they, they can't because plot. So superdumb. As are the tech dudes not simply decomissioning Maeve. That I can sort of buy though, Asian dude gets pushed around, the other guy got threatened. Still. So dumb. So, so dumb.

    Presumably
    That's why he put her in a dress. Nobody bats an eye because she looks perfectly human, she's not one of those naked things down in the basement.

    Plus he had his tablet out the whole time so unless he got stopped by someone in the know, he could probably have played it off.

    And the reason all the other workers don't notice anything is they're engrossed in their own work.
    That's what I was thinking too. He walks her around with his computer out the whole time, that way if anyone asks he can just say he was running her through a test after repair or something similarly plausible.

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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    It's too convenient for me, especially connected with the other stuff I mentioned. It's lazy and too easy

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    LordSolarMacharius
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    The thing with the recordings is
    Nobody was bothering to check the tech recordings. Nobody cared! Elsie only checked because she wanted something to bully the tech with. There's no vast security apparatus at Westworld monitoring everyone's movements with rows of security officers at desks... it's just a bunch of security cameras that log their videos that nobody watches unless they need to find something. It's the problem of modern surveillance - they have full recordings of a brewing robo-uprising, but they have so many other full recordings of everything else that the bombshell is buried right alongside the mundane. At some point presumably someone's going to notice something's going on with Maeve and do a search of the archives to figure out why, but until then there's just too much surveillance.

    Also the really important bit that the robo-fucker established is that while the techs are recorded, they don't know they're being recorded.

    For Maeve going on a walk, well, why would anyone care? There's floor after floor of techs doing basically exactly that, putting the robots through their routine motions. What's one more bot practicing its walking cycle? Sure it would be weird if anyone thought about it, but they're all busy doing their own shit. And besides, everyone knows those guys down in [any other department] are idiots, who cares what they're doing.

    Kana on
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  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    I would think the bigger problem that security would care about would be with
    the butcher guy walking around with one of those data pad/tablets since he's expressly not supposed to have one. I'm amazed those things aren't lojacked.

    Yet there he goes walking around the entire facility in his surgical suit, tapping away and not looking remotely out of place, no siree.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    It's too convenient for me, especially connected with the other stuff I mentioned. It's lazy and too easy

    As someone who has breached barrier and perimeter security at multiple venues I work at on a routine basis, let me assure you: it's very easy to do what they did when security isn't explicitly looking for you. Walk around like you're supposed to be there and generally they think you are.

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    So, I've done what's called "pen testing", which is when you break into places and they pay you to show them how.

    Fun fact: it is not hard. People are far too concerned with their own shit. They will not notice people who shouldn't be there, or people doing things they shouldn't, and if they do, they're going to keep their head down and not ask about it.

    I have walked in to the office buildings of major banking institutions with no more complex a strategy than looking and dressing like I work there, and holding a box of donuts.

    Why the box of donuts? Because it means my hands are full, I can't fish my pass out, and who denies the guy with donuts? He can't be up to something!

    So people hold the door open for me behind them, in blatant defiance of policy. I have walked right up to the door, right past the security desk, and had a security guard go "oh just a second sir" and open it for me.

    Westworld might take place in the future, but people are still people in that future. And people don't give a shit about things that aren't their problem.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Security is/was probably more concerned with making sure the guests weren't in areas they shouldn't be instead of fretting about some low-level tech doing walking maintenance on a host.

  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Maeve walking around the lab and all the techs remaining oblivious:

    Spoilers from Futureworld:
    When the two reporters were down in the back rooms of the facility, none of the workers noticed them. They weren't programmed to deal with humans.

    I don't know if that is the direction they are going here (particularly if the asian tech is a robot), but visually the scenes looked really similar

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  • AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    So by the end of the season will that piano have ran through all of OK Computer or what

    *cough*

    Fake Plastic Trees is off The Bends, not OK Computer

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Security is/was probably more concerned with making sure the guests weren't in areas they shouldn't be instead of fretting about some low-level tech doing walking maintenance on a host.

    There's an awful adage in security that goes "If I ask, they might tell me"

    Basically if you notice someone doing something or being somewhere that maybe is amiss, but you're not 100% sure, if you don't ask or make note of it in any way you can cover your ass with pretending you never saw it or noticed if it turns later that was a big deal.

    If you ask, and it turns out to be a VIP who you shouldn't have been bothering or something mundane you don't fucking care about, now you have wasted your time, made yourself look like an ass, and possibly induced paperwork where none needed to exist.

    So don't ask. What are the odds that it's actually something you need to give a shit about?

    If this strikes you as a craven and lazy approach to security boy howdy do I have some fun stories to tell you.

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  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    @Pony I would love to hear some security tales

    MatevCantideWACriminal
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    @Pony I would love to hear some security tales

    one time I was working front desk at an office building, and I was normally the night dude. Company was gonna pay me an extra four hours to be there and orientate the new dayshift guy, basically stay late a bit for two days. So I did that.

    the new guy was a real Farva and that became obvious within minutes of meeting him, the kind of dude who like unnecessarily at 11 all the time and would lose shit when anything happened. those sorts of dudes are intolerable fuckstains to work with but w/e, he's the dayshift's problem, after his orientation I will never see his dumb face again.

    so we go through all the shit and after like the first hour we're both sitting up front and on the live feed we see a dude walking around in one of the sub-basements that is currently under reno. it's like 7am so broseph next to me is wigged out because none of the reno boys are supposed to be on site until 9. he's like "is that guy in your logbook? did he get a pass from you? did he come by your desk?" and i answer "no" to all of his questions.

    he starts to get intense, and i'm like dude, is he wearing a hard hat and hi-vis vest? yes? then i doubt he's some nogoodnik. if he got down there without going by me then he's got his own key to the place. use your judgment. this isn't a high sec site, you are going to see people moving about here even outside business hours.

    he starts getting all huffy and shit and is like "Well I'm going down there and confronting him he shouldn't" a derpa derp derpity derpa do.

    so he does, and apparently, instead of being polite and soft-spoken, his tone with the chap in the hardhat was interrogative and accusatory and loud and yelly. this proved to be a bad call because the chap in the hard hat was one of the VPs of the company that owned the building and he was personally inspecting some shit on his own time and didn't take kindly to this Paul Blart motherfucker giving him the third degree over it. as i suspected, he had his own key and let himself in through one of the side doors, which is fine.

    needless to say, goober here didn't last long at this site

    so was my sloth in that instance justified? partially, and largely after the fact. but between guys like me and that uptight motherfucker, there's a whole spectrum of lazy assholes who look at a situation and go "nah"

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Security companies are, by and large, not about "security" but in fact about the appearance of security and/or the presence of adult "chaperones".

    The best way to think of security is to think of the TSA: do they provide a vital and effective service? Well, kinda. It depends on who you ask. Can they truly stop a determined infiltration/evasion of their provided security apparatus? Absolutely not.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Sidenote: I'm so glad I extracated myself from the private security industry. It's a joke on so many levels, but the punchline isn't funny.

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Sidenote: I'm so glad I extracated myself from the private security industry. It's a joke on so many levels, but the punchline isn't funny.

    I stopped once regulations meant that I'd have to spend a bunch of money on a license. Which is a good thing I guess! But not really financially feasible at the time.

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    I do love to corporate banality this show has

    Some subtle things where you are thinking "well, that doesnt seem right, wouldnt you do X?" but then you think of your own workplace and it all makes sense

    autono-wally, erotibot300CantideShazkar ShadowstormTicaldfjamWACriminaloverride367jakobaggerTofystedethMahnmutOlivaw
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    I would love seeing someone try to sneak into my work

    #1 they arent getting in

    #2 you might get shot

    #3 your probably going to federal prison

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