I've watched a couple youtube vids about this, and its helped me understand the flow of the game.
The backbone of this game is chess to the Nth level and we commanders are playing it blindfolded >.>; but its still fun.
Yeah, in my defense I genuinely wasn't aware. I forgot to turn on my ability to inspect enemy units and most of my guesstimates of capabilities come from wargame where they aren't amphibious
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
ok. since that arty at the bridge was a key moment in their grouping...
Do I have 2 arty strikes now? If so, I'm gonna burn my staff members and look at Infidel's and Auralynx's maps to make up for the missed attack and place them where I can do damage.
I've watched a couple youtube vids about this, and its helped me understand the flow of the game.
The backbone of this game is chess to the Nth level and we commanders are playing it blindfolded >.>; but its still fun.
Mind linking any of the videos that you found to be especially useful?
I've watched a couple youtube vids about this, and its helped me understand the flow of the game.
The backbone of this game is chess to the Nth level and we commanders are playing it blindfolded >.>; but its still fun.
Mind linking any of the videos that you found to be especially useful?
Yes please. My main issue learning this is the only lets plays/guides are slow plays that don't do a good job engaging my attention.
Eh, you know what. I'm gonna have this turn be open discussion/map because at this point I think we might be boned for our learning game. I'll leave it up to you guys (and extra sorry reserves! Next game definitely gonna give everyone boots on the ground from turn 0) but there's functionally nothing on the map till next turn when the tank reinforcements arrive.
For what it's worth we're actually doing pretty okay on the VP screen:
But I fear that's going to turn very quickly once the Soviet's hit Hameln. On the plus side the bridge blowing has definitely delayed about 20 tanks on the north end of the map. I think if we'd maybe blown those two, left immediately and pulled back way further than Grob and waited till we were at full force this could've gone better.
Oh geeze I had no idea the south was going so badly as well, time to read all the posts.
But genuinely I don't quite get why a lot of things happened the way they did. I mean, one of my units didn't move the entire game despite having orders the entire game to move.
We left a lot of dead Soviets in our wake but, at least on my end it seems like blowing up the bridges completely slowed all my forces down, and it turns out the enemy can ford rivers like its no big deal.
The main thing I am trying to figure out is how the enemy forces were so much faster than ours in terms of moving around the map, especially when it came to things like crossing rivers vs my guys not even moving down a road.
@Albino Bunny I found a youtube video of someone playing this exact mission, Pied Piper, is it cool if I check it out? I assume we'll do a different scenario next time we try this, yes?
Poking around online two things I have found so far:
You can stack multiple units in the same hex, this seems to be a pretty effective way have a smaller force engage a larger force one element at a time to try to bring firepower to bare.
There is a "screening" order in which units will skirmish and then fall back mid turn when they are feeling pressed. This is in contrast to hold where a unit digs in over the course of 30 minutes and does not like to "scoot" (move position) between orders.
@Albino Bunny I found a youtube video of someone playing this exact mission, Pied Piper, is it cool if I check it out? I assume we'll do a different scenario next time we try this, yes?
Poking around online two things I have found so far:
You can stack multiple units in the same hex, this seems to be a pretty effective way have a smaller force engage a larger force one element at a time to try to bring firepower to bare.
There is a "screening" order in which units will skirmish and then fall back mid turn when they are feeling pressed. This is in contrast to hold where a unit digs in over the course of 30 minutes and does not like to "scoot" (move position) between orders.
I told you about screening. This I am 100% certain of. Your HQ's were set to it for any order where you didn't specify hold (and even then sometimes still on screen because it looked dire >.>).
Stacking multiple units in one hex makes you an easy target for arty and also can cause traffic jams that slow units down. Though I'm no expert to be able to say what the right call is int hat trade off.
Also maybe for next go around we could drop the secrecy aspect? At least while we're learning we could just be a council. It'd make my job easier too.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Poking around online two things I have found so far:
You can stack multiple units in the same hex, this seems to be a pretty effective way have a smaller force engage a larger force one element at a time to try to bring firepower to bare.
There is a "screening" order in which units will skirmish and then fall back mid turn when they are feeling pressed. This is in contrast to hold where a unit digs in over the course of 30 minutes and does not like to "scoot" (move position) between orders.
I am pretty confident that's what Bunny had my tanks doing before the APCs all rolled 20s or something in the third update. It was going pretty well until then.
So, here's a big thing watching this guy play Pied Piper:
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
So, here's a big thing watching this guy play Pied Piper:
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
Honestly, I think our failure here thus far is down largely to:
a) This being a scenario where your first few units are supposed to get cut right up to begin with.
b) The amphibious / bridge misunderstanding.
c) General inexperience.
For something that was supposed to be a test, that's not really so bad an outcome.
So, here's a big thing watching this guy play Pied Piper:
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
Honestly, I think our failure here thus far is down largely to:
a) This being a scenario where your first few units are supposed to get cut right up to begin with.
b) The amphibious / bridge misunderstanding.
c) General inexperience.
For something that was supposed to be a test, that's not really so bad an outcome.
I'm less concerned about figuring out why we failed, and more trying to figure out why I had a unit that literally did not move a single hex for the entire game despite having move orders for the entire game.
So, here's a big thing watching this guy play Pied Piper:
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
That's an optional modifier called Limited Staff Orders.
I did not have that turned on. Units can just take up to twenty minutes to respond to orders.
EDIT: Could you post the video for me to look over tomorrow?
Double edit: Extra good news: The mega map for future missions might be quite a bit prettier thanks to this guy. No more of me stitching together screens shots badly in paint.
For reference here's glorious Hameln. I'll probably still stick to the default map in game to keep hexes for myself to use but it'll be great for you guys.
So, here's a big thing watching this guy play Pied Piper:
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
That's an optional modifier called Limited Staff Orders.
I did not have that turned on. Units can just take up to twenty minutes to respond to orders.
EDIT: Could you post the video for me to look over tommorow?
Hm, if we weren't play with those rules I'm not sure what was causing it. But honestly his units seem much more responsive than mine felt. (But this could just be perception!)
It's worth noting that this is a really old build of the game. His Company command radius are larger and Division Command radius. His starting turn time is almost double ours as well (29 minutes to 17 for us).
So I'd be shocked if the unit AI and responsiveness hadn't being changed.
Also the early builds maps were obscenely ugly.
EDIT: Also I have to say it's super weird how a game that basically scoots imaginary tanks around while playing 'ATGM.MP3' is so visceral in motion but yeah. It's actually genuinely fun and nail biting to watch turns play out in this.
Also, I wanna thank you guys before I head off to bed. Especially @Fuselage and @Elvenshae who didn't even end up playing. It's being fun even if it's a little frustrating. So my general ideas going forwards are either create a system dedicated to hosting this kind of play and run that (I uh, already posted setting ideas in the Roleplaying thread) or run another game of this.
If I run another game of this I think:
1) We'll have the next game be open map/comms while we're learning with roles mostly there as a formality for who gets the last order in.
2) I'll find a scenario big enough to let everyone have a company or two to start and have reserves something the commander can dole out as needed to keep people in the game and engaged from the start.
3) I'll remember to turn on the sodding unit inspector so I can at least inform you guys of the soviets gear once we make contact.
The scary thing is, that *wasn't* a lot of moving parts. Some of these maps are loaded with units.
Ok, to give my perceptions and reading over the thread...
Holy cow, Auralynx was still about 3km east of where I thought he was.
as for giving the commanders info on the other side of the war, with character limits on chatting, that was info you didn't need.
It was bad news in your sector and that was all you needed to worry about. I think I posted that there was a general retreat or that we were getting waxed hard.
I'd like to get this game as well and do some runs to understand unit interactions between NATO and the soviets. It seemed like if a unit was shot at, even if only once, it was locked down in its hex.
What our plan was to do was to initially be dug in, and hit the soviets hard as they charged into us in the first 30minutes.
Let the infantry do their job in setting up to blow up a couple bridges, and then exfiltrate to the next phase line to fight again.
That didn't happen, probably due to how the game engine worked.
Trying to translate our intent into what actually happened in the game is something we need to look at too. I thought that as the defenders, we had the ability to choose our starting unit stances as well as placement. I would have loved to know if it was possible to start off dug in or not. Screening is a stance that I was aware of, reading the manual, but it may have been confused in translation between what I said and what I wanted the commanders to do.
As for Auralynx exploding within the hour... That was my bad. I thought he had Leopard 2's and that we were being reinforced with Leopard 1's. Not the other way around.
Leopard 1's are shit against late 80's soviet tech. Leopard 2's are where its at. Still, I hoped that he could have held out long enough for a smoke barrage to cover his escape.
That new map pack that Albino linked is something we should be playing on as well. It has the pertinent info and the elevations are very distinct. Would have helped in placing the infantry's tank in a better spot at Grob.
With the limited posting, we got to get a system down. It might be gaming the system of what Albino's intent was, but even with 100characters, its a choice between asking for orders, detailing enemies, or asking further clarification.
I knew the situation in the north because Inquisitor gave enemy type, direction, and distance of all enemy unit stacks. At least to start with.
Auralynx saying "Lots of enemy tanks coming my way." does not help me in the slightest. Of course enemy tanks are coming your way, they are attacking us.
Also with being the host, there is a lot of info to divulge, even if its parsed down. I know Albino mentioned when units were taken out, but no mention of the intensity of the attack, was it a lucky shot or did the Soviets throw 20 ATGMs at the unit? It would be nice if there was a chatlog breakdown of the turn's activities to see what's what besides the summary review, unless its inclusive and aggregate enough to pars what actually happened each round.
I'm happy I had a chance to play this, Albino had ALOT on their plate.
I don't believe its possible to begin dug in, I believe if your unit maintains the "hold" command for 30 minutes in the same hex you become dug in, is my understanding.
• A scroll-able panel called 'Intel – Friendly' that shows information about your forces. Showing a breakdown of your forces by counter with a summary count of the number of platform types and map locations.
• Another called 'Intel – Enemy' shows estimated information about your opponent’s forces. Showing a possible breakdown of spotted enemy forces by group with an estimated count of the number of platform types and estimated area of operation.
Additions
• Added a color overlay to “Show Elevations” function (Ctrl+E) if the Advanced Elevation Colors option is on. The colors are shades of yellow to orange to brown as the elevations get higher. This color scheme does work (mostly) with LOS and other tools. The option check box can be found in on the General Tab of the Set Game, Player, and Unit Defaults dialog via the User Preferences button on the main menu or hitting the F5 key.
As an added bonus for 2.0.11, we are including a revised set of Red Storm maps hot of the press from William that move the Red Storm maps up to a Southern Storm standard seen on the maps used in Germany Reforged. These maps are now JPG instead of PNG and have a smaller memory footprint, but still look awesome. The JPG Revision 2.0.11.4 April 2016 | What’s New, Enhanced, or Fixed 7 version of a map will load in place of the PNG in the maps folder. If you want the older maps, just move all of the JPGs to a new subfolder and the PNG version will load in game. Enjoy!
We made some adjustments and improvements to the AI pathing for ground assault and helo movements. In both cases, the AI will look to use better approaches and avoid diving over exposed hills. Helicopters in deliberate movement (attack profile) will seek out low terrain to mask their approach to targets. Hasty moving helos (Returning to base or looking to cover ground) with look to stay low, but will crest hills if it is faster to the objective.
We added a standoff range to helo deliberate movement. Three hexes for Soviets and four hexes for NATO Attack helicopter units. This should help them from sitting on top of enemies. Scouts have a much larger standoff and will tend to back off if they fly into the standoff range.
The Reinforcements and Withdrawals panel has been revised to put everything in strict chronological order and to display time offsets from “now” rather than the start of the scenario. For example, if the entry says a unit will arrive in 30+ minutes then that will be 30 minutes in the future from the current game time.
Posts
The backbone of this game is chess to the Nth level and we commanders are playing it blindfolded >.>; but its still fun.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I'm not sure there's anything left I can do but get cut up at this point.
@NotoriusBEN
@Albino Bunny
Do I have 2 arty strikes now? If so, I'm gonna burn my staff members and look at Infidel's and Auralynx's maps to make up for the missed attack and place them where I can do damage.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
are you waiting for my orders? or something else?
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Mind linking any of the videos that you found to be especially useful?
I know that feeling far too well.
These last few days have been hell.
Yes please. My main issue learning this is the only lets plays/guides are slow plays that don't do a good job engaging my attention.
Commencing 15 minutes of action:
Eh, you know what. I'm gonna have this turn be open discussion/map because at this point I think we might be boned for our learning game. I'll leave it up to you guys (and extra sorry reserves! Next game definitely gonna give everyone boots on the ground from turn 0) but there's functionally nothing on the map till next turn when the tank reinforcements arrive.
For what it's worth we're actually doing pretty okay on the VP screen:
But I fear that's going to turn very quickly once the Soviet's hit Hameln. On the plus side the bridge blowing has definitely delayed about 20 tanks on the north end of the map. I think if we'd maybe blown those two, left immediately and pulled back way further than Grob and waited till we were at full force this could've gone better.
But genuinely I don't quite get why a lot of things happened the way they did. I mean, one of my units didn't move the entire game despite having orders the entire game to move.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Realistically next turn we are down to only HQs on the board as my dudes to the far north are certainly doomed.
Do we even tank, bros?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
The main thing I am trying to figure out is how the enemy forces were so much faster than ours in terms of moving around the map, especially when it came to things like crossing rivers vs my guys not even moving down a road.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
You can stack multiple units in the same hex, this seems to be a pretty effective way have a smaller force engage a larger force one element at a time to try to bring firepower to bare.
There is a "screening" order in which units will skirmish and then fall back mid turn when they are feeling pressed. This is in contrast to hold where a unit digs in over the course of 30 minutes and does not like to "scoot" (move position) between orders.
Go for it.
I told you about screening. This I am 100% certain of. Your HQ's were set to it for any order where you didn't specify hold (and even then sometimes still on screen because it looked dire >.>).
Stacking multiple units in one hex makes you an easy target for arty and also can cause traffic jams that slow units down. Though I'm no expert to be able to say what the right call is int hat trade off.
Also maybe for next go around we could drop the secrecy aspect? At least while we're learning we could just be a council. It'd make my job easier too.
I am pretty confident that's what Bunny had my tanks doing before the APCs all rolled 20s or something in the third update. It was going pretty well until then.
It seems like he has a finite number of orders per turn, anywhere between 5 and 4 so far. Ordering an individual units to do anything new takes 1 of those 5/4 orders. Order a stack similarly takes 1 of those 5/4 orders.
Does this perhaps explain some lack of unit responsiveness?
In terms of stacking being effective or not, the video had the guy stack a tank + infantry + HQ in some of the reinforced map squares and they killed up a storm before getting over run.
Honestly, I think our failure here thus far is down largely to:
a) This being a scenario where your first few units are supposed to get cut right up to begin with.
b) The amphibious / bridge misunderstanding.
c) General inexperience.
For something that was supposed to be a test, that's not really so bad an outcome.
I'm less concerned about figuring out why we failed, and more trying to figure out why I had a unit that literally did not move a single hex for the entire game despite having move orders for the entire game.
That's an optional modifier called Limited Staff Orders.
I did not have that turned on. Units can just take up to twenty minutes to respond to orders.
EDIT: Could you post the video for me to look over tomorrow?
Double edit: Extra good news: The mega map for future missions might be quite a bit prettier thanks to this guy. No more of me stitching together screens shots badly in paint.
For reference here's glorious Hameln. I'll probably still stick to the default map in game to keep hexes for myself to use but it'll be great for you guys.
Sure thing, here's part 1 of 3.
Hm, if we weren't play with those rules I'm not sure what was causing it. But honestly his units seem much more responsive than mine felt. (But this could just be perception!)
So I'd be shocked if the unit AI and responsiveness hadn't being changed.
Also the early builds maps were obscenely ugly.
EDIT: Also I have to say it's super weird how a game that basically scoots imaginary tanks around while playing 'ATGM.MP3' is so visceral in motion but yeah. It's actually genuinely fun and nail biting to watch turns play out in this.
If I run another game of this I think:
1) We'll have the next game be open map/comms while we're learning with roles mostly there as a formality for who gets the last order in.
2) I'll find a scenario big enough to let everyone have a company or two to start and have reserves something the commander can dole out as needed to keep people in the game and engaged from the start.
3) I'll remember to turn on the sodding unit inspector so I can at least inform you guys of the soviets gear once we make contact.
Any other suggestions/feedback?
Despite my confusion over some of the details of the system I had a really great time playing.
Same.
Can I suggest trying something with slightly less moving parts for that test, as well?
Ok, to give my perceptions and reading over the thread...
Holy cow, Auralynx was still about 3km east of where I thought he was.
as for giving the commanders info on the other side of the war, with character limits on chatting, that was info you didn't need.
It was bad news in your sector and that was all you needed to worry about. I think I posted that there was a general retreat or that we were getting waxed hard.
I'd like to get this game as well and do some runs to understand unit interactions between NATO and the soviets. It seemed like if a unit was shot at, even if only once, it was locked down in its hex.
What our plan was to do was to initially be dug in, and hit the soviets hard as they charged into us in the first 30minutes.
Let the infantry do their job in setting up to blow up a couple bridges, and then exfiltrate to the next phase line to fight again.
That didn't happen, probably due to how the game engine worked.
Trying to translate our intent into what actually happened in the game is something we need to look at too. I thought that as the defenders, we had the ability to choose our starting unit stances as well as placement. I would have loved to know if it was possible to start off dug in or not. Screening is a stance that I was aware of, reading the manual, but it may have been confused in translation between what I said and what I wanted the commanders to do.
As for Auralynx exploding within the hour... That was my bad. I thought he had Leopard 2's and that we were being reinforced with Leopard 1's. Not the other way around.
Leopard 1's are shit against late 80's soviet tech. Leopard 2's are where its at. Still, I hoped that he could have held out long enough for a smoke barrage to cover his escape.
That new map pack that Albino linked is something we should be playing on as well. It has the pertinent info and the elevations are very distinct. Would have helped in placing the infantry's tank in a better spot at Grob.
With the limited posting, we got to get a system down. It might be gaming the system of what Albino's intent was, but even with 100characters, its a choice between asking for orders, detailing enemies, or asking further clarification.
I knew the situation in the north because Inquisitor gave enemy type, direction, and distance of all enemy unit stacks. At least to start with.
Auralynx saying "Lots of enemy tanks coming my way." does not help me in the slightest. Of course enemy tanks are coming your way, they are attacking us.
Also with being the host, there is a lot of info to divulge, even if its parsed down. I know Albino mentioned when units were taken out, but no mention of the intensity of the attack, was it a lucky shot or did the Soviets throw 20 ATGMs at the unit? It would be nice if there was a chatlog breakdown of the turn's activities to see what's what besides the summary review, unless its inclusive and aggregate enough to pars what actually happened each round.
I'm happy I had a chance to play this, Albino had ALOT on their plate.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
The alternative would either be some home brew thing by me or Commander: The Great War with everyone controlling a country.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Of note:
• A scroll-able panel called 'Intel – Friendly' that shows information about your forces. Showing a breakdown of your forces by counter with a summary count of the number of platform types and map locations.
• Another called 'Intel – Enemy' shows estimated information about your opponent’s forces. Showing a possible breakdown of spotted enemy forces by group with an estimated count of the number of platform types and estimated area of operation.
Additions
• Added a color overlay to “Show Elevations” function (Ctrl+E) if the Advanced Elevation Colors option is on. The colors are shades of yellow to orange to brown as the elevations get higher. This color scheme does work (mostly) with LOS and other tools. The option check box can be found in on the General Tab of the Set Game, Player, and Unit Defaults dialog via the User Preferences button on the main menu or hitting the F5 key.
As an added bonus for 2.0.11, we are including a revised set of Red Storm maps hot of the press from William that move the Red Storm maps up to a Southern Storm standard seen on the maps used in Germany Reforged. These maps are now JPG instead of PNG and have a smaller memory footprint, but still look awesome. The JPG Revision 2.0.11.4 April 2016 | What’s New, Enhanced, or Fixed 7 version of a map will load in place of the PNG in the maps folder. If you want the older maps, just move all of the JPGs to a new subfolder and the PNG version will load in game. Enjoy!
We made some adjustments and improvements to the AI pathing for ground assault and helo movements. In both cases, the AI will look to use better approaches and avoid diving over exposed hills. Helicopters in deliberate movement (attack profile) will seek out low terrain to mask their approach to targets. Hasty moving helos (Returning to base or looking to cover ground) with look to stay low, but will crest hills if it is faster to the objective.
We added a standoff range to helo deliberate movement. Three hexes for Soviets and four hexes for NATO Attack helicopter units. This should help them from sitting on top of enemies. Scouts have a much larger standoff and will tend to back off if they fly into the standoff range.
The Reinforcements and Withdrawals panel has been revised to put everything in strict chronological order and to display time offsets from “now” rather than the start of the scenario. For example, if the entry says a unit will arrive in 30+ minutes then that will be 30 minutes in the future from the current game time.