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[Science] A thread of good guesses, bad guesses and telling the difference.

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    CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    Wasn't that "Chocolate makes you live longer" paper from a few years back a similar story? They wanted to show how easy it was to get rubbish published and then a bunch of headlines took it literally

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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Some quotes from a weird paper that has been getting attention:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6910781/
    A Black Hole at the Center of Earth Plays the Role of the Biggest System of Telecommunication for Connecting DNAs, Dark DNAs and Molecules of Water on 4+N- Dimensional Manifold

    The earth’s core is the biggest system of telecommunication which exchanges waves with all DNAs and molecules of water. Imaging of DNAs on the interior of the metal of the core produces a DNA black brane with around 109 times longer than the core of the earth which is compacted and creates a structure similar to a black hole or black brane. We have shown that this DNA black brane is the main cause of high temperature of core and magnetic of earth.

    It's full of unrelated references that aren't actually referenced in the paper, some of which are incomplete or improperly cited, but which hit all the keywords.

    13 authors from unrelated fields took part, but they have an interesting common thread: several of them are vocal critics of journals that do things like "automated peer review" or "pay to publish" shenanigans, and several others have a large volume of bizarre word salad works, some of which are known to be created by bots to defeat automated peer review scripts being run in the same journal, one author in particular had been releasing several papers per month in it, each as nonsensical as the last (while actual reasonable sounding work was published elsewhere).

    Thankfully the stupid media hasn't gotten ahold of this yet and issued breathless reports about the stunning findings, but the smart media isn't quite getting to the conclusion either. The short of it seems to be that scientists fed up with crappy journals have teamed up to ridicule this one into nonbeing.

    okay that's hilarious.

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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    f6d8p0n3nris.jpeg
    Gluons - Strong nuclear force
    W/Z bosons - Weak nuclear force

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    A fundamental principle of quantum mechanics is that you cannot observe a password without changing its strength.

    Butler on
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2020/10/08/Tennessee-teenagers-homemade-fusion-reactor-lands-Guinness-record/1531602188101/

    A kid from Tennessee is now the youngest person to successfully achieve a fusion reaction with a home-made rig.

    On the one hand, this is less impressive than the article makes it sound - Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor plans can be downloaded off the internet and literally thousands of people have built them, price tag starts around two grand. On the other hand, they're still very fiddley and this kid was 12 (stayed up late and finished it up the night before his 13th birthday) and is going to absolutely drop the mic on all the vinegar volcanos and double pendulums at the science fair.

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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2020/10/08/Tennessee-teenagers-homemade-fusion-reactor-lands-Guinness-record/1531602188101/

    A kid from Tennessee is now the youngest person to successfully achieve a fusion reaction with a home-made rig.

    On the one hand, this is less impressive than the article makes it sound - Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor plans can be downloaded off the internet and literally thousands of people have built them, price tag starts around two grand. On the other hand, they're still very fiddley and this kid was 12 (stayed up late and finished it up the night before his 13th birthday) and is going to absolutely drop the mic on all the vinegar volcanos and double pendulums at the science fair.

    It is impressive, because getting a good enough vacuum to pull that off is difficult. And very expensive as well - most 12 year olds don't have the cash resources available for a turbomolecular pump. That setup looks like easily $5k or more.

    I wonder what the neutron flux coming out of the thing is though. The dd reaction is a prodigious source of multi MeV neutrons.

    The reason I say that is I certainly wouldn't want stand anywhere close to it while it was running.

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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    The question is mostly "how much of this is impressive outside of wealth".

    It's like when I was taking mechanical engineering and you could use up to $20 worth of materials and whatever you had in your household for the class project, so people with machinists for parents got a hell of a head start.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Wealth helps a lot, better vacuum pumps and precision machining are the most expensive parts of one and the most important to making it work. I've seen working ones made with a drill press milling table and a $120 vacuum pump like you'd use to service an air conditioner, but there's two levels of working, and apparently this kid managed full "star mode" and not just a plasma halo that cheaper ones manage fairly easily, the vacuum quality is the divider between the two.

    Hevach on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2020/10/08/Tennessee-teenagers-homemade-fusion-reactor-lands-Guinness-record/1531602188101/

    A kid from Tennessee is now the youngest person to successfully achieve a fusion reaction with a home-made rig.

    On the one hand, this is less impressive than the article makes it sound - Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor plans can be downloaded off the internet and literally thousands of people have built them, price tag starts around two grand. On the other hand, they're still very fiddley and this kid was 12 (stayed up late and finished it up the night before his 13th birthday) and is going to absolutely drop the mic on all the vinegar volcanos and double pendulums at the science fair.

    It is impressive, because getting a good enough vacuum to pull that off is difficult. And very expensive as well - most 12 year olds don't have the cash resources available for a turbomolecular pump. That setup looks like easily $5k or more.

    I wonder what the neutron flux coming out of the thing is though. The dd reaction is a prodigious source of multi MeV neutrons.

    The reason I say that is I certainly wouldn't want stand anywhere close to it while it was running.

    Yeah, that would worry me.

    Like this is impressive but also a garage level nuclear reaction that is relying on a 12 year old for safety. Its an established design so probably not as dangerous as the kid that made a homemade breeder reactor out of smoke detectors but still.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Farnsworth-Hirch fusors aren't a serious radiation hazard because very little actual fusion happens in them. They produce X-rays, but less exposure than a medical X-ray, and neutron radiation well below the lowest levels observed to have any effect.

    I mean, don't put your balls on it but in proper lab procedures they don't even call for X-ray aprons.

    The kid with the radium reactor, on the other hand, was contaminating the entire area with airborne radioisotopes and pumping enough neutrons into his yard to qualify it for superfund intervention. Fission is dirtier than fusion, but what he was doing was probably the dirtiest kind of reaction possible, non-sustaining fission driven by a decay reactor.

    Hevach on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    The crazy thing about the smoke detector reactor kid was that he apparently was arrested for attempting to do the same thing in 2007.

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    The crazy thing about the smoke detector reactor kid was that he apparently was arrested for attempting to do the same thing in 2007.

    Dude was mentally ill. He was later diagnosed as having schizophrenia and ended up dying from a drug overdose that was likely from self-medicating.

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    furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    The crazy thing about the smoke detector reactor kid was that he apparently was arrested for attempting to do the same thing in 2007.

    Dude was mentally ill. He was later diagnosed as having schizophrenia and ended up dying from a drug overdose that was likely from self-medicating.

    Holy fuck that escalated quickly. I remember the story but had no idea he was mentally ill.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    The idea of a paranoid schizophrenic who compulsively builds dirty yet functional garage tech nuclear reactors is pretty disturbing, to be honest.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    The idea of a paranoid schizophrenic who compulsively builds dirty yet functional garage tech nuclear reactors is pretty disturbing, to be honest.

    Good supervillain origin story though.

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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    The idea of a paranoid schizophrenic who compulsively builds dirty yet functional garage tech nuclear reactors is pretty disturbing, to be honest.

    Good supervillain origin story though.

    All it needs is “built a Polonium powered space heater for his cell from anti-static brushes in the prison workshop” and you’re basically there.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Good news: We now have room temperature superconductors

    Bad news: they're...not terribly useful because they still require ridiculous amounts of pressure to function because they require metallic hydrogen.

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-first-room-temperature-superconductor-20201014/

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Good news: We now have room temperature superconductors

    Bad news: they're...not terribly useful because they still require ridiculous amounts of pressure to function because they require metallic hydrogen.

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-first-room-temperature-superconductor-20201014/

    Haha...

    Well technically correct is the best kind of correct I guess.

    I think “cold” fusion is also perfectly possible if you extend your definition of “cold” to be “technically around 273K but under massive fucktons of pressure.”

    Jealous Deva on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Isaac Arthur did a video on superconductors and mentioned that even room temperature wouldn't likely be adequate. You figure there will be fluctuations in temperature and if going 0.5 degrees above room temperature is enough to disrupt things it's not terribly practical.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Isaac Arthur did a video on superconductors and mentioned that even room temperature wouldn't likely be adequate. You figure there will be fluctuations in temperature and if going 0.5 degrees above room temperature is enough to disrupt things it's not terribly practical.

    Eh if your SC needs 70 degrees or less constantly that's a lot easier and more practical to keep cool than one than needs -100..

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Isaac Arthur did a video on superconductors and mentioned that even room temperature wouldn't likely be adequate. You figure there will be fluctuations in temperature and if going 0.5 degrees above room temperature is enough to disrupt things it's not terribly practical.

    It still may be useful in some cases though. Many areas underground are pretty consistent as far as temperature goes, and for some applications the energy cost of insulated, climate controlled conduit may be worth it.

    I’m sure we could find a lot of use for even a 0 degree superconductor.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    He was referring to the idea of using them in everything the way people want to. Yes, room temperature super conductors would be very useful and could be utilized in many areas, but that's only if you can keep the temperature consistently below room temperature. So wiring up an entire with room temperature superconductors isn't viable because you likely wouldn't be able to keep all of that at room temperature or below. The real holy grail is actually a few degrees above room temperature.

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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    hell even just "warm" enough to be cooled by liquid nitrogen instead of liquid helium would be a huge benefit

    Aioua on
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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    It doesn't actually need to be room temperature. Just getting a material that could become superconducting at something a standard refrigeration cycle could reach would be world changing. A superconductor that worked at -40 C would revolutionize electrical transmission - losses could eliminated from transformers, for example.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Farnsworth-Hirch fusors aren't a serious radiation hazard because very little actual fusion happens in them. They produce X-rays, but less exposure than a medical X-ray, and neutron radiation well below the lowest levels observed to have any effect.

    I mean, don't put your balls on it but in proper lab procedures they don't even call for X-ray aprons.

    The kid with the radium reactor, on the other hand, was contaminating the entire area with airborne radioisotopes and pumping enough neutrons into his yard to qualify it for superfund intervention. Fission is dirtier than fusion, but what he was doing was probably the dirtiest kind of reaction possible, non-sustaining fission driven by a decay reactor.

    Fine but I’m leaving them out until the next thread

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Let's go melt Antarctica with our data centers.

    But really any advancement in superconductors is awesome. 'Room temperature' is sorta arbitrary in the ranges of typical universe temperature ranges after all.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/10/venus-might-not-have-much-phosphine-dampening-hopes-for-life

    Three independent studies have failed to verify phosphine on Venus, and "pre discovery" checks of archived data are also goose eggs (some Pioneer data tentatively supported phosphine but could not confirm).

    Meanwhile, a data processing glitch has been found that can mistake large amounts of sulphur dioxide for small amounts of phosphine, all but burying the idea.

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    He was referring to the idea of using them in everything the way people want to. Yes, room temperature super conductors would be very useful and could be utilized in many areas, but that's only if you can keep the temperature consistently below room temperature. So wiring up an entire with room temperature superconductors isn't viable because you likely wouldn't be able to keep all of that at room temperature or below. The real holy grail is actually a few degrees above room temperature.

    I mean room-temp superconductors probably wouldn't actually be particularly useful in, like, consumer electronics. You want them for main transmission lines from powerplants and switching stations. Getting them to work in my laptop is just gravy.

    uH3IcEi.png
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    SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/10/venus-might-not-have-much-phosphine-dampening-hopes-for-life

    Three independent studies have failed to verify phosphine on Venus, and "pre discovery" checks of archived data are also goose eggs (some Pioneer data tentatively supported phosphine but could not confirm).

    Meanwhile, a data processing glitch has been found that can mistake large amounts of sulphur dioxide for small amounts of phosphine, all but burying the idea.

    My favorite sentence in that article:
    Either some kind of metabolism or an unknown chemical process would be required to explain the high amounts of phosphine gas in the Venusian atmosphere. (On Earth, various microbes make phosphine. Humans make it too, in meth labs and as part of the semiconductor industry.)

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    “in meth labs and as part of the semiconductor industry”

    Quite the Venn diagram there.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Clearly there were alien drug smugglers running a giant meth production operation on Venus, and they shut it down once it started getting attention.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Clearly there were alien drug smugglers running a giant meth production operation on Venus, and they shut it down once it started getting attention.

    To be fair, the aliens could be making superconductors too.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    He was referring to the idea of using them in everything the way people want to. Yes, room temperature super conductors would be very useful and could be utilized in many areas, but that's only if you can keep the temperature consistently below room temperature. So wiring up an entire with room temperature superconductors isn't viable because you likely wouldn't be able to keep all of that at room temperature or below. The real holy grail is actually a few degrees above room temperature.

    I mean room-temp superconductors probably wouldn't actually be particularly useful in, like, consumer electronics. You want them for main transmission lines from powerplants and switching stations. Getting them to work in my laptop is just gravy.

    Even in that scenario, you have to consider all the things that can go wrong. Random jackass squirrel decides to chew throw ye random line and then you suddenly have issues because said squirrel happened to pick a day where the temperature was .5 degrees above room temperature.

    Plus, even with insulation, you probably need to do something to keep the temperature at room temp and I suspect that could mean having to space out the means do so on various points of your lines, thus increasing the number points of failure. Like I said, it'll still be very useful to have room temperature super conductors, but on a practical level, they aren't quite the holy grail some make them out to be because there are limits on where they are going to be practical and it's not going to be the extent that people imagine. Also think of how many places have temperature at 25 degree Celsius or less year round. Then think of how much less work you need if say someone figures out how to make a superconductor that can function at 37.78 degrees Celsius or less. There are still places where it might not be practical because the temperatures exceed 37.78 degree, but everywhere else, you can plop those lines up and probably have the insulation as more of a safeguard than a requirement. Plus, not having to dread anytime a squirrel chews through the lines or the other myriad of things that could go wrong and all of a sudden the power grid is adversely impacted by a slight temperature change somewhere in the lines has rendered your superconductor as something other than a superconductor.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Let's go melt Antarctica with our data centers.

    But really any advancement in superconductors is awesome. 'Room temperature' is sorta arbitrary in the ranges of typical universe temperature ranges after all.

    Wouldn’t these new superconductors be great for space applications and satellite/communications platforms?

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Let's go melt Antarctica with our data centers.

    But really any advancement in superconductors is awesome. 'Room temperature' is sorta arbitrary in the ranges of typical universe temperature ranges after all.

    Wouldn’t these new superconductors be great for space applications and satellite/communications platforms?

    Space isn’t really “cold” per se, it’s nothing. The light from the sun would warm the superconductors, there would be nowhere to dump the heat, and the superconductors would eventually stop superconducting.

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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientists-say-they-found-a-way-to-reverse-the-human-aging-process-649798
    Recent research led by Tel Aviv University’s Prof. Shai Efrati, together with a team from Shamir Medical Center, found that when healthy adults over the age of 64 were placed in a pressurized chamber and given pure oxygen for 90 minutes a day, five days a week for three months, not only was the aging process delayed - it was actually reversed.

    Specifically, the study, which is published in the peer-reviewed journal Aging, focused on whether the process could reverse two key indicators of biological aging: the shortening of DNA telomeres and the accumulation of resultant senescent cells.

    ...

    The practical ramifications include improvements in attention, information processing speed and executive functions, which normally decline with aging and about which more than 50% of people over the age of 60 express concern. According to the study, the changes were equivalent to how the participants’ bodies were at the cellular level 25 years earlier.
    “We are not [just] slowing the decline - we are going backwards in time,” Efrati said.

    Okay someone tell me why this isn't as exciting as it sounds. Aside from the low sample size, I mean.

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    furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Just based on the title they only looked at blood cells, not brain cells. Also seeing some massive error bars in all of their measurements although they claim the difference is still significant. Looking at the actual data they reported no significant long term effect for 2 of the 3 cells they examined. Even though they checked at the 30th and 60th session, there was no significant increase between the two sessions as well for 2 of the cell types. Also, my understanding is that telomere length is not a smoking gun for aging and just preserving length may not mean anything. Basically they found that several cells that exist in the blood stream resemble younger versions of themselves after this treatment. However the effects are temporary and we have no reason to suspect that increasing telomere length will actually increase the overall health of the cell, as far as I know. This seems over hyped to me, including by the authors themselves.
    Edit: I didn't even think of this at first but getting an increased amount of oxygen over a long time frame also means increased oxidative stress. Not sure if the theoretical benefits of the increase oxygen flow outweighs the negative of potential increased oxidative stress.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Hyperbaric oxygen is pretty expensive and potentially dangerous, and 90 minutes a day is a long time on it.

    I mean it is promising, but it's not really an easy thing to practically do even if it worked great.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Hyperbaric oxygen is pretty expensive and potentially dangerous, and 90 minutes a day is a long time on it.

    I mean it is promising, but it's not really an easy thing to practically do even if it worked great.

    I mean, the first version of everything is always more expensive and clunkier than it ends up being. So if this were actually a real, valid result with this effect, there would be massive efforts to make it less dangerous and whatnot.

    And maybe less expensive. I am maybe 50/50 on if the race to sell it to everyone wins out over the race to keep it only for the rich.

    That said, like furlion said it's probably not as cool as it sounds (yet!). But I'm just going to pretend it is and be hopeful anyways.

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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    No, see, what I wanted you to actually do was tell me this looks surprisingly good and holy shit we might have actually found a way to reverse agin.

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This discussion has been closed.