[The Good Place] Like a Wave Returning to the Ocean

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I just realized something sad: Adam Scott is a regular on a show on another network, so probably no Trevor.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Honestly, I think I liked this half hour episode a lot better than the 1st, hour long one. It was firing on all cylinders right out the gate, wheras the first one seemed like it was spinning it's wheels at times. Like they had an episode and change's worth of material spread out over 2

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  • AtomikaAtomika Gay Mergirl Registered User regular
    Guys, on my NBC app immediately after the Subway joke they cut to an actual Subway commercial and I beheld the seams of reality starting to fray ever so slightly

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Guys, on my NBC app immediately after the Subway joke they cut to an actual Subway commercial and I beheld the seams of reality starting to fray ever so slightly

    Are you sure you're not in the bad place?

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Well, i mean ideally there would be two or three episodes released per day.

    But once a week works too, I guess.

    I figured it out guys, WE are in the Bad Place.


    EDIT: Godammit Spoit.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Most people figured out we're in the bad place on November 8th of last year.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Most people are in on it being the bad place.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I wonder when we'll finally get to see an actual Good Place.

    I wonder if there will wind up being a war between the Good Place and the Bad Place.

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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I wonder when we'll finally get to see an actual Good Place.

    I wonder if there will wind up being a war between the Good Place and the Bad Place.

    I wonder if The Good Place is even real

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  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I wonder when we'll finally get to see an actual Good Place.

    I wonder if there will wind up being a war between the Good Place and the Bad Place.

    I wonder if The Good Place is even real
    Janet and Mrs. Cocaine prove that it must, although it wouldn't surprise me if it's not quite as good as advertised.

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    It's The Good Place, not The Great Place.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Oh Lord. I just realized. They can t say Hell because of the swear filter and they can't say heaven because the demons would probably reflexively flinch or something

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    I'm really loving this season but one thing I sorta have to scratch my head at is, why does it matter that they keep figuring out, what does it hurt to keep resetting? Like Chidi says, the perpetual resets are a nightmare in themselves. Why not just have your fun with them for a cycle, then when they figure it out restore their memories of every cycle and let them get mentally devastated by realizing how much they're being manipulated and abused before resetting everything again.

    Which, what's actually nice is there's a completely reasonable character-driven explanation there: Michael is too in love with his baby to make any big changes to it, so he keeps hitting his head against the wall instead of adapting his plan to accommodate the fact that they keep figuring it out

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    I'm really loving this season but one thing I sorta have to scratch my head at is, why does it matter that they keep figuring out, what does it hurt to keep resetting? Like Chidi says, the perpetual resets are a nightmare in themselves. Why not just have your fun with them for a cycle, then when they figure it out restore their memories of every cycle and let them get mentally devastated by realizing how much they're being manipulated and abused before resetting everything again.

    Which, what's actually nice is there's a completely reasonable character-driven explanation there: Michael is too in love with his baby to make any big changes to it, so he keeps hitting his head against the wall instead of adapting his plan to accommodate the fact that they keep figuring it out

    I think the idea is that they will torture themselves for 1000 years never realizing the twist.

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    I'm really loving this season but one thing I sorta have to scratch my head at is, why does it matter that they keep figuring out, what does it hurt to keep resetting? Like Chidi says, the perpetual resets are a nightmare in themselves. Why not just have your fun with them for a cycle, then when they figure it out restore their memories of every cycle and let them get mentally devastated by realizing how much they're being manipulated and abused before resetting everything again.

    Which, what's actually nice is there's a completely reasonable character-driven explanation there: Michael is too in love with his baby to make any big changes to it, so he keeps hitting his head against the wall instead of adapting his plan to accommodate the fact that they keep figuring it out

    I think the idea is that they will torture themselves for 1000 years never realizing the twist.

    Right, that was the original plan he pitched. But it doesn't actually seem like it hurts anything to reset, so who cares how long they take to figure it out? The answer is Michael cares, and because he cares he's sabotaging himself.

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  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    I'm really loving this season but one thing I sorta have to scratch my head at is, why does it matter that they keep figuring out, what does it hurt to keep resetting? Like Chidi says, the perpetual resets are a nightmare in themselves. Why not just have your fun with them for a cycle, then when they figure it out restore their memories of every cycle and let them get mentally devastated by realizing how much they're being manipulated and abused before resetting everything again.

    Which, what's actually nice is there's a completely reasonable character-driven explanation there: Michael is too in love with his baby to make any big changes to it, so he keeps hitting his head against the wall instead of adapting his plan to accommodate the fact that they keep figuring it out

    I think the idea is that they will torture themselves for 1000 years never realizing the twist.

    Yeah, I'm sure there is a stipulated amount of time in Michael's original proposal that makes the approach a success.

    Eh, I'll get around to it.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Almost all of Michael's problems are his own doing, yeah (which I guess is appropriate). The resets are only a problem because he's making them a problem and because his minions are understandably sick of constantly learning new roles. If he thought about it for a little while, he'd realize that he's actually created a really great purgatory, in the literal sense of the word - through his efforts, these people keep being purged of their worst impulses and become better versions of themselves. That seems like something a putative Good Place might be interested in.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    If the Real Good Place is as exclusive as Michael says, in that only the top .00001% of the population get in or something, I could see it's architects being completely awful and snooty.

    Plus, if the people who get to go there are as good as advertised, I don't see how they would be satisfied with a place where only they're allowed to be, and everyone else on Earth they tried to help goes to the Bad Place. For all we know, The Good Place is just The Bad Place for Good People.

  • AtomikaAtomika Gay Mergirl Registered User regular
    If Michael and Sean are also in perdition, it's not like they should be having a good time either

    Historically, NOBODY is happy to be in the Bad Place, even those in charge

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    How can there even be a Good Place unless it's only filled with puppies

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    How can there even be a Good Place unless it's only filled with puppies kittens

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    i mean, nothing Eleanor and Chidi could say to each other could ever possibly be a fraction as bad as getting your eyes burnt out or whatever they do in the rest of Hell

    even by the standards of everyday human interpersonal relationships it's insanely lightweight. plenty of families put each other through way more horrible, abusive shit than those guys do. you kind of just have to ignore it for the purpose of the show

    edit: unless it's set-up for some other massive twist, i guess? if it turns out they're actually in purgatory i'm going to be pretty bored. i feel like they're not though

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    How can there even be a Good Place unless it's only filled with puppies kittens snakes

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    How can there even be a Good Place unless it's only filled with puppies kittens snakes weed

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Also i like that Jason is like a d&d monk that's min maxed between int and wisdom. like he's a total moron, but in his inane ramblings he'll accidentally grab pearls of wisdom for other folks.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I'm really loving this season but one thing I sorta have to scratch my head at is, why does it matter that they keep figuring out, what does it hurt to keep resetting? Like Chidi says, the perpetual resets are a nightmare in themselves. Why not just have your fun with them for a cycle, then when they figure it out restore their memories of every cycle and let them get mentally devastated by realizing how much they're being manipulated and abused before resetting everything again.

    Which, what's actually nice is there's a completely reasonable character-driven explanation there: Michael is too in love with his baby to make any big changes to it, so he keeps hitting his head against the wall instead of adapting his plan to accommodate the fact that they keep figuring it out

    I think the idea is that they will torture themselves for 1000 years never realizing the twist.

    Sean points out that there's an incredible amount of man hours being spent on four people. And once they figure out the twist, their personal torment stops working.

    Eleanor can't be tortured by the idea that everyone's better than her if she knows she's in the Bad Place. She can't be tortured by the worry that she might be found out. Chidi can't be tortured by the ethical dilemma of helping Eleanor. Jason can't be tortured by his fear of being found out. And so on.

    It's not so much that torture couldn't be designed around people who know they're being tortured, it's that Michael has no choice but to work with his initial proposal.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Gay Mergirl Registered User regular
    I rewatched the latest episode again and I caught something kinda surprising

    many of Michael's attempts lasted for long stretches, even hundreds of days

    which means Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani, and Jason have all been trapped there for DECADES now

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  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Wasn't Michael's whole pitch basically that the humans will do the torturing so it will take less demon hours? So these four were supposed to be the beta test and have demons as neighbors but next time you'd fill a whole neighborhood up with real people and sit back as they torture each other.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    Wasn't Michael's whole pitch basically that the humans will do the torturing so it will take less demon hours? So these four were supposed to be the beta test and have demons as neighbors but next time you'd fill a whole neighborhood up with real people and sit back as they torture each other.

    Kind of. This was intended to be the proof of concept yeah, but the motivation was more that architects generally would create these intricate neighborhoods, but could never actually enjoy them. They would create one, put people in it, and move on. He wants to innovate the process to make it more entertaining and fun for the builders.

  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Michael's whole idea is kind of bad and it makes sense that the demons don't really believe in him

    At best you get to make someone feel really guilty and self-hating but for the most part you just make them awkward and irritated

    No amount of pineapple pizza is going to satisfy the guy that just wants to bite people

    The kind of social torture that Michael is putting these people through clearly doesn't do it for many of the demons, and he's failing to appeal to his audience. Which fits just fine with the extended metaphor of Michael as a frustrated artist who's failing to bring his vision to life. He's so obsessed with creating his masterpiece that he doesn't care that nobody likes it

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Michael's whole idea is kind of bad and it makes sense that the demons don't really believe in him

    At best you get to make someone feel really guilty and self-hating but for the most part you just make them awkward and irritated

    No amount of pineapple pizza is going to satisfy the guy that just wants to bite people

    Yeah the moment he said 'we'll improvise!' during his initial pitch is the moment everyone should have realized it'd never work.

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    I mean he has the right idea in that humans would probably torture each other better than the demons would, should just throw a few genuinely evil people in there and remove the Frogurt.

  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    I mean he has the right idea in that humans would probably torture each other better than the demons would, should just throw a few genuinely evil people in there and remove the Frogurt.

    Eh, at some point even the most evil people in history have a hard time competing with scorpions shoved up your urethra or whatever

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I mean he has the right idea in that humans would probably torture each other better than the demons would, should just throw a few genuinely evil people in there and remove the Frogurt.

    I don't think that was the idea behind it, though. Whenever he talked about it in flashbacks, it was always 'we can make this more fun!....for us, who cares about those pathetic humans'

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "It's not supposed to be fun. For anyone. It's Hell."
    "Well, I think we can do better."

    Meaning, he can do better.
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Telling you, this is Michael's bad place. In life he was a drone with delusions of grandeur who thought his bosses were morons who failed to recognize his genius, leading to him being an asshole to everyone. So his afterlife is to get a chance to enact his vision and for it to go horribly wrong forever.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    It's the bad place for everyone, there's no reason for the demons not to torture each other too.

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  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    As Atomika rightly noted above, in much of traditional Christian myth, hell is torture for the demons as well as for the humans. Turns out Shaun really is God, and is punishing Michael for his hubris and punishing the lesser demons for following Michael, while also punishing the Not-So-Fantastic Four.

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    So I am confused in all this by that one lady.
    Who/why is the lady in the "medium place"? She seems like shes in her own bad place. She doesn't reset, meaning they are going somewhere very distinctly different on that train. If they can get there, they can get elsewhere right? I don't want to see them scooby doo through a bunch of bad places, but it seems like such a strange mechanic.

    I'm wondering if she didn't get dirt or do something to essentially get them to leave her alone for forever in a deal. Or is this just her bad place? They make it sound like its literal torture.
    How can there even be a Good Place unless it's only filled with puppies

    It was until Ted "which sun do you need this kicked into" Danson showed up.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Gay Mergirl Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    As Atomika rightly noted above, in much of traditional Christian myth, hell is torture for the demons as well as for the humans. Turns out Shaun really is God, and is punishing Michael for his hubris and punishing the lesser demons for following Michael, while also punishing the Not-So-Fantastic Four.

    I don't know how cool I am with a God who is really invested in torturing people

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