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[The Good Place] Thursday 8:30 NBC

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Posts

  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    I appreciate the casting of
    Michael McKean.

    But if they had gotten Henry Ian Cusick, with that opening, I may have died laughing.

    mxmarksDevoutlyApatheticJragghenLegacy
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    Deep cut Marcus Brody Indy III reference for Eleanor!

    I'm sure that fight sequence had more than one film reference as well.

    tynicLegacy
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    The stuff with the pool triangle was awesome

    SnicketysnickCouscousMatevjoshofalltradesKneelSorcedestroyah87TubularLuggageLegacySleepJustTeeN1tSt4lkerDisco11
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    A more literal version of Janet-Chan

    pAJiEss.jpg
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
    Rhesus Positivechrono_travellerHakkekageTofystedethLegacySleepJustTee
  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    Deep cut Marcus Brody Indy III reference for Eleanor!

    I'm sure that fight sequence had more than one film reference as well.

    Per the podcast, the guy who coordinated the fight also did Bourne movie fights.

    SnicketysnickMatevSorceBurnageTubularLuggagejimb213BloodsheedTomantaDevlin_DragonusN1tSt4lker
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 16
    Apparently Offerman was offered the role of Shawn before Marc Evan Jackson. Again, via the podcast.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    I did not know about this podcast. That was a pretty cool listen, thanks!

  • CoinageCoinage Existence is mysterious, isn't it? Registered User regular
    For once, Jason was the only one who was listening

    Contains No Juice
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    mxmarks wrote: »
    Ted Danson learning to dance is apparently a thing as now other locations and angles are surfacing.



    I have never wanted to get back into working in TV more than when I see behind the scenes stuff from this show.

    This is my new favorite thing, and makes me love this show and the whole cast a million times more (which I didn’t even know wasn’t possible). I love that Kristen Bell comes in and points out that Danson is doing a hip thrust instead of a side to side. The whole video is just super endearing for all involved.

    Shadowhopedestroyah87Zilla360JustTeeDevlin_DragonusN1tSt4lker
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Probably controversial hot take..,
    the show was waaaay better when they were in the good place vs earth. So I’m super glad they seemingly pulled another swerve by just killing them all on earth to enter Janet’s void

    Them on earth was getting old and feeling like a less special show

    616610-1.png
    Zilla360Jragghendestroyah87ShadowhopemcdermottSorceLegacyHeirSleepEvermournMatev
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I was super impressed that chidi threw that pool ball into the glass and it didn't instantly shatter into a billion pieces. Those things are heavy

    True story: The last time I had a Stella, at a bar, in a Stella glass, it literally shattered in my mouth. So I winced something fierce during that scene.

    Zilla360
  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    edited November 17
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Probably controversial hot take..,
    the show was waaaay better when they were in the good place vs earth. So I’m super glad they seemingly pulled another swerve by just killing them all on earth to enter Janet’s void

    Them on earth was getting old and feeling like a less special show

    I feel some agreement to this and I think there's a couple reasons why...
    For one, most of the earth stuff has not been focused on the Good/Bad Place Points System and why it's forking bullshirt, which is where the real philosophical meat still lies, for me at least. The Earth based episodes, at least the last ~4 have been focused on working with the system, on mitigating the effects for the Four Idiots remaining family and loved ones. And it's not like the episodes are poorly written or poorly acted (because the show is still of the best quality in those departments) but it's pretty pedestrian and down-to-earth compared to the afterlife.

    And two, it literally grounds the writing firmly in the realm of the mundane. I mean, can't throw in a Tahanitaur mirror centaur into the earth-based scenes. Which wouldn't be a problem in a show that starts (and stays) in our mundane reality, but for The Good Place it feels like a pale shadow of what was on our screens through seasons one and two.

    Thoughts on this episode in particular (Don't Let the Good Life Pass You By):
    Doug Forcett! - as others have pointed out, because the show has already established that motivation for good acts will affect/invalidate any point gains, he's bound for The Bad Place is my guess. Everything he does is not because it's the right thing to do on earth but in order to get a Good spot in the afterlife.

    Shawn's back! Yay Shawn.

    I need the payoff from escaping into Janet's Void. I want it so bad.

    Favorite gag beats from the episode: The Happiness Pump (Eleanor and Jason making dirty jokes) and Jason casting Summon Molotov. "One man's waste is another man's water. And both men are me!" got a good laugh as well.

    Also, we have to wait two weeks for a new episode? This forking sucks.

    destroyah87 on
    steam_sig.png
    Zilla360tynicjimb213JustTeeMatev
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited November 17
    Yeah I think I realized it during the scenes where
    eleneaor gets her memories. Like those small clips back there made me realize how much better the show is in that context

    Disrupter on
    616610-1.png
    Zilla360LegacySleepMatev
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Probably controversial hot take..,
    the show was waaaay better when they were in the good place vs earth. So I’m super glad they seemingly pulled another swerve by just killing them all on earth to enter Janet’s void

    Them on earth was getting old and feeling like a less special show

    I don't mind the earth episodes, and i think both the most recent one and the one where they learned the truth are legit great, but i'm definitely ready for them to move on. It's gone from being my favorite show to... still my favorite show, but I'd like them to go somewhere different.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    destroyah87Zilla360DisrupterShadowhopeHexmage-PABurnageLegacyCantideJustTeeMatevN1tSt4lker
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    There was still plenty of absurdity on Earth. Jacksonville was the best of the Earth eps IMO.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    destroyah87jimb213LegacySleepJustTeeN1tSt4lkerNeoToma
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I think while the Earth stuff slowed the show down, with this latest ep it feels to me
    that it was a necessary build up to whatever is happening next. We needed the four to make good faith efforts to do good without the stakes being their personal redemption, whether knowing or unknowing, so we have some emotional stake in whatever is going on with the Accountant. And we needed to see what a truly 'good' life would look like, and why that is also bullshit. So my gut feeling is that when viewed as a whole arc, it's gonna feel fairly solid. Just one with a different sort of narrative pacing to the preceding one - if anything this is more like Season 1, where even though we thought we were hitting swerves, the show spent a whole season building to the first real twist.

    MorganVchrono_travellerZilla360destroyah87jimb213schusscloudeagleJustTeeLord PalingtonLaOsMatevN1tSt4lkerNeoToma
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Disrupter wrote: »
    He doesn’t KNOW know though. But he is doing them for the wrong reason...

    And encouraging the mean teenager to be cruel is knowingly allowing him to be damned.

    SorceHeirRhesus PositiveJustTeeN1tSt4lker
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    DisrupterZilla360JustTeeMatev
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    My one complaint about Earth
    Chidi didn’t get any resolution with a figure from his past.

    SorceLegacySleepJustTee
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    tynicCelestialBadgerZilla360GnizmojkylefultonLoisLaneSleepMatevJustTee
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited November 17
    Behind the writing inside knowledge from the podcast about Doug and getting into the good place, may actually spoil future episodes
    The episode writer was on the podcast, and he explicitly states that because Doug doesnt KNOW know, he only believes he knows, he is still set to go to the Good Place. Our gang was told the straight truth from a Demon so they are doomed, but Doug learned his knowledge essentially through guessing correctly so he is still safe.

    Knowing the truth and believing you know the truth are two different things, even if what you believe is actually true.

    Of course, this is only correct if Mike Schur agrees, so who knows.

    Veevee on
    LaOs
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    Legacy
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    CelestialBadgerZilla360HeirMatevJustTee
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited November 17
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    Heir
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    A lot of people aren't going to want Hitler to be in heaven even if his conversion was sincere.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    Doug doesn't seem like he's putting all that much good into the world. He's mostly refraining from doing harm, rather than doing any positive good. With a bunch of self-mortification for some reason (eating only lentils and radishes) which doesn't seem to factor into the scoring system.

    Legacy
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    A lot of people aren't going to want Hitler to be in heaven even if his conversion was sincere.

    They can make a Medium Place for people who aren't deserving of Hell but loathesome to be around, right?

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    Doug doesn't seem like he's putting all that much good into the world. He's mostly refraining from doing harm, rather than doing any positive good. With a bunch of self-mortification for some reason (eating only lentils and radishes) which doesn't seem to factor into the scoring system.

    I think the radish/lentil thing was because they have the smallest carbon footprint, or something like that.

    Zilla360Dizzy Dchrono_travellertynicLoisLaneLegacyMatevN1tSt4lker
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    He's trying to do good in very small increments, without doing anything negative. Big gestures tend to have the possibility for big blowback, so something good but complicated can actually end up being bad. So instead, he's doing a bunch of tiny good things, where there's no chance at creating any victims except for himself.

    LegacyAldo
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    He's trying to do good in very small increments, without doing anything negative. Big gestures tend to have the possibility for big blowback, so something good but complicated can actually end up being bad. So instead, he's doing a bunch of tiny good things, where there's no chance at creating any victims except for himself.

    And the snail! The snail was a victim!

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
    LegacyZilla360
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 17
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    A lot of people aren't going to want Hitler to be in heaven even if his conversion was sincere.

    Especially since getting into the Christian version of Heaven requires believing Jesus was the Messiah. Hitler getting in would be super fucked up.

    Hexmage-PA on
    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    A lot of people aren't going to want Hitler to be in heaven even if his conversion was sincere.
    This is what Purgatory is for. The person who is sincere but still had a shitty life, gets all of that crap burned away so that they can be able to go upstairs.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 18
    Sorce wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If that's the requirement though it seems unlikely anyone is in the Good Place. His intentions are wrong for example but he is putting good out into the world, and while he thinks he has the right answer he doesn't have empirical proof of that. His fear of missing out by like 1 point was palpable though.

    I think
    that’s what this has all been building up to. I think the main twist is going to be that yes, the Good Place exists, but nobody (or only a precious few) is in it. The Accountant is probably going to make that plain. Even if you do your absolute best, and make yourself miserable in the process, it still isn’t good enough.

    The system is arbitrary and unfair. Either you have no idea that being good is earning you points (and therefore no idea what kinds of things will earn you points or even how many) and can therefore live what most people would consider a good life and still not make it to whatever the threshold is, as dictated by the celestial beaurocracy, or you have figured out that there’s a point system somehow and have been unfairly screwed out of being able to get to The Good Place at all because your motivations have been soiled, and so you might as well just be bad and enjoy it while you can (which, how is that okay?).

    I think Michael and Co. are going to discover that even Doug Forcett is going to the Bad Place.

    Pretty much any system is going to be arbitrary and unfair in various ways.

    I think it’s why the grace-based system of Christianity has been so popular. It gives some leeway for screwing up, but even Christianity has some things to say about spoiled motivations. In fact, motivations are possibly even more important in the Christian system.

    The grace based system gets a lot of blowback from the other end as it leaves open the opportunity for Hitler getting into heaven as long as he had a deathbed conversion.

    At that point you have to assume that only God knows whether that was honest. Jesus himself even said “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven” in the Bible.

    But I guess it’s worth pondering if there’s such a thing as being too lenient about who gets to go to The Good Place.

    A lot of people aren't going to want Hitler to be in heaven even if his conversion was sincere.

    This is what Purgatory is for. The person who is sincere but still had a shitty life, gets all of that crap burned away so that they can be able to go upstairs.

    Except a lot of Christian denominations don't believe in Purgatory. My family went to Southern Baptist churches (I'm an agnostic now), and what I was taught is that salvation requires believing Jesus is the savior and being sincerely repentant of your sins. Nothing you did before matters, and just trying to be a good person without seeking salvation is insufficient because no one can ever be good enough to deserve to go to Heaven on their own merits ("we all truly deserve to go to Hell" is a phrase I've heard a lot).
    “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

    In Christianity not only would God forgive Hitler and allow him into Heaven if he was truly repentant, anyone who refused to forgive Hitler would be damned. Because not forgiving people unconditionally is a sin (unless you're God), and refusing to ever forgive means you are unrepentant of that sin.

    Conversely, a non-Christian activist who cured cancer and ended world hunger would be damned forever because doing good things is effectively irrelevant for salvation. If you committed even one sin you are disqualified.

    EDIT: This made me curious as to how forgiveness is understood in Judaism. I found this:
    "Can you forgive a murderer?" Zack, my 14-year-old son, asked.

    "Not really. Not in Judaism," I answered.

    I briefly explained the Jewish concept of forgiveness, that the person who has erred or has committed the crime must honestly and directly seek forgiveness from the person he or she has harmed.

    Zack understood immediately. "But those people are dead," he said.

    "Exactly," I responded.

    I'm honestly a little bit surprised the Jewish conception of forgiveness is so different from the Christian one. This is making me want to read more about how different people view forgiveness.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    The issue when talking about Christianity as a whole (not that this is unique to Christianity by any means) is there are a whole bunch of denominations with actively conflicting beliefs. Like saying "Christians believe" is usually only slightly more useful than saying "Some people believe".

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    The issue when talking about Christianity as a whole (not that this is unique to Christianity by any means) is there are a whole bunch of denominations with actively conflicting beliefs. Like saying "Christians believe" is usually only slightly more useful than saying "Some people believe".

    I mean, hell, look at the primary schism in getting into heaven between Catholics and other Christians: faith vs faith and good works.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Unimaginable torture that is eternal kinda throws a wrench into any system. That system is bad, inherently. There is nothing you can do in a single lifetime that should earn that.

    Also, Ted Danson earned enough points to get into the Good Place with that line about
    drinking piss.
    Brought more joy into the world than a box of kittens.

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Unimaginable torture that is eternal kinda throws a wrench into any system. That system is bad, inherently. There is nothing you can do in a single lifetime that should earn that.

    Also, Ted Danson earned enough points to get into the Good Place with that line about
    drinking piss.
    Brought more joy into the world than a box of kittens.

    Pretty sure there are a few historic individuals who deserve it.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Unimaginable torture that is eternal kinda throws a wrench into any system. That system is bad, inherently. There is nothing you can do in a single lifetime that should earn that.

    Also, Ted Danson earned enough points to get into the Good Place with that line about
    drinking piss.
    Brought more joy into the world than a box of kittens.

    Pretty sure there are a few historic individuals who deserve it.

    Strongly disagree. Nobody deserves anything forever, especially torture.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    It is fundamentally unjust that finite actions result in infinite repercussions. Strictly speaking, it works both ways - finite sins can't warrant infinite punishment, and finite good deeds can't earn infinite rewards. It's just we tend not to object too much to infinite amounts of good things.

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