Video game voice actors strike

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    As for the issue of game budgets versus game prices, step Number One With A Bullet has to be getting publishers to stop linking cost and success.

    Except for a relatively few cases, big successes don't get to be successful because they had the shiniest graphics. They get there because they do something really well that people want to experience. Graphics can be a factor but usually it's got to be some pretty groundbreaking stuff, which is way harder to do now just because game graphics are approaching much more closely to parity with reality.

    Case in point, No Man's Sky. Yeah, it has turned out to be a disaster of unprecedented proportions, but it sold craploads with pretty minimal advertising (compared to AAA games) on the basis of some neat stuff (that it just happened to never deliver on). Make stuff that is new and interesting, and people will buy it in droves. And that sort of development doesn't require assloads of photorealistic texture development, which is the sort of thing sucking up so much AAA budget these days.

    Very late, but I get the feeling the real issue with most AAA publishers is they feel they're in a Mexican standoff. If they release a game that doesn't feature the highest level of visuals possible and individually animate every single eyelash, they'll be viewed as inferior and not sell compared to every other ultra-shiny game. Or so the feeling goes.

    But there are a few other examples of games that didn't go 100% shinies and succeeded. Fallout 4 barely had more team members than Fallout 3, and it was a monster success. The Witcher 3 was also (relatively) cheap and did extremely well. Then again, those are sequels to games that were never really known for visual power to begin with. Would fans stick with a Call of Duty sequel that took a bit of a visual downgrade?

    Really, I agree with everyone else that games need to just cost $80 already, so the big publishers can treat their employees decently and take some damn risks without being in danger of dying.

    Yeah. The issue is nuanced and there are a lot of moving parts in play.

    The price of games should have increased already, and technically with the abundance of premium packages like collectors editions and the like it has somewhat. While a lot of enthusiasts would buy and do buy games upfront even post increase, a lot more just wait for sales or other things, and the higher price would likely just push that behaviour more. If it's a studio that I like or a franchise I want to support, I will preorder or buy the game even if I don't plan on playing it just yet. But how many people regularly purchase at least one game a month? It's easy to say "I'll buy at a higher price" for reactions, but the reality of it is even if we will, it's likely more won't. Hell, that 20 bucks would make a difference for a lot of people, especially parents buying games for their children.

    Then there's the expectation of what that $60 USD gets you. Within the enthusiast sphere, you often read how so-and-such isn't a full price game. It's a sentiment represented in magazines and reviews too. That feeling and backlash would likely encourage more waiting, less selling, etc. Throw in the global market, and the scene gets worse. The price for a $60 USD game in Canada is $80 CAD. Assuming the same increase vs US price, they'll be dropping $100 CAD per title. I don't know how much more the games are in pounds, euros, etc... but I'd imagine a similar increase. Strike or no strike, that increase just... is very unlikely to happen, or at least within this game generation.

    The residual request counter-offer featured a pre-release buyout option for games. The primary metric for the residual and bonuses seems to be units sold. What constitutes a sale wasn't specified either (does this include bundled games, etc.) A game that sells 2m units hasn't necessarily sold them at their full MSRP. The offer is untenable because it can literally punish success, and/or make it easier to get burned by failure. Where developers and studios would likely be the ones getting burned, not publishers. From the VA perspective, as not every AAA title is a guaranteed success, doing the buyout would be more viable option. More risk of loss in a volatile system. We're also not taking into account runaway successes and the like.

    Perhaps they will offer a larger base raise to address the chief complaint issued by SAG as the basis for the strike—and VA should be given more money, even if residuals aren't a viable form of doing so—along with the improving the working conditions and such? Who knows. Given the length of development cycles, I don't see the industry rushing to get back to the table to negotiate this one out. Even if social pressures are ramped up by famous VA calling further attention to work conditions over the residuals and all.

    Assuming this is true, the companies have presented offerings to address the conditions:
    Witlin reiterated that the companies have been impressed by the research presented by SAG-AFTRA into the issue of vocal stress and they attempted to address the concerns raised by the union’s bargaining committee during negotiations. That included offering performers innovative working arrangements including split sessions and multiple performer sessions, but those proposals were rejected by SAG-AFTRA leaders.

    “Among their proposals, the companies offered to split a four-hour recording session into two, two-hour portions with the second session to be performed within five days of the first session to ease the stress on performers, but this and other offers were rejected by SAG-AFTRA,” Witlin said. “This is an area that the parties have agreed to continue to collaboratively investigate during the term of the next contract. Exploring ways to further improve working conditions is something both sides should be committed to.”

    The companies released a chart and supporting documentation to demonstrate what it says are the two sides’ “almost identical” proposals. “There is nearly no difference between the companies’ final proposal and the union’s proposal,” the companies said in a statement. “The wages, additional compensation, pension and health contributions, vocal stress, stunt coordination, and transparency proposals are almost identical.”

    Trying to find that statement from the companies or whatever now.

    Source

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  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    As a Canadian, the cost of games going up as a result of the fluctuating dollar just means I either buy less, or buy them when they're on sale for less than half price. I'd say the gaming market is a buyer's market for sure, there's more than I can possibly play, and I play a lot. I do enjoy some good VA, but that said not every game needs to be fully voiced - looking at you, SW:TOR. I can't see them getting residuals though. I'd rather see the people responsible for the actual gameplay getting residuals than the VA talent. I never bought a game thinking "Wow, I love it when Nolan North talks into my earholes!" It sure wouldn't hurt if there was more than 5 to 10 voice actors for major parts too, gettin' mighty tired of hearing the same voices for every game. Witcher 3 is a solid example, I really like Geralt and Triss' voice work, but I'd rather my money went to the technical staff who performed some real wizardry making that game run as well as it does, especially when you compare it to other games like Skyrim, etc.

    Few and far between are the games that suffer from not buying it day one at full pop. If anything, you're generally better off waiting for them to fix the thing, *and* getting it on sale as well.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Even as someone who's "into" games, I was not aware of the degree to which the actual voice actors doing (and being expected to do) the mocap work themselves is apparently a thing now.
    Part of the ongoing trend toward "pixel-suit" actors, I guess, where the VA isn't just providing the voice but the expressions and even the actual appearance of the character. Erasing the lines between live-action and (digital) animation.
    Not sure how I feel about that. For one thing, it seems... limiting. For the longest time, one of the advantages of animation was that you could depict anything, draw anything, without being bound by the capabilities of RL makeup, puppetry, etc etc.

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    It turns out animators are still not as good as making things move like humans as the human body is.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    but why does it have to be the VA's own body?
    We have stunt people and stand-ins for live-action actors.
    (yes, "expense", but is a mo-cap person as expensive per hour as the voice actor?)

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  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    but why does it have to be the VA's own body?
    We have stunt people and stand-ins for live-action actors.
    (yes, "expense", but is a mo-cap person as expensive per hour as the voice actor?)

    I think even when they did Uncharted 1, and had the actors go in and dub over their own movements, you lose something when you split it up like that.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    It turns out animators are still not as good as making things move like humans as the human body is.

    This isn't strictly true.

    Animators can insert CG animations of fake people into things and you'd never know the difference.

    The problem is that'd take weeks of work. While mocap just takes ten minutes to put someone into a light suit, throw them into a room then tell them to get on with it.

    It's a cheap and easy alternate solution. If companies like anything, it's fast and cheap alternatives.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Yeah I've heard that in some cases animators can do a better job than actual captured movement.

    Because sometimes mocap looks really janky/unnatural/obviously mocapped. Animated movements can be more convincing, surprisingly.

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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Yeah I've heard that in some cases animators can do a better job than actual captured movement.

    Because sometimes mocap looks really janky/unnatural/obviously mocapped. Animated movements can be more convincing, surprisingly.

    Also, realistic fidelity and looking good are not the same thing. See exaggerated in-between frames, for example.

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  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    And then you have cases like Thief 3 where they replaced the voice actor best suited for the job with someone else because they wanted mocap too....and it all goes to shit.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    And then you have cases like Thief 3 where they replaced the voice actor best suited for the job with someone else because they wanted mocap too....and it all goes to shit.

    Oh, was that the reason? That's hilariously dumb. That Thief game is a pretty good example of games being hurt by losing an actor.

    (Granted there were loads of other problems, but still)

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  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »

    And if anyone can't listen, it's been transcribed here. Really, anyone looking to discuss this ought to read/listen to it.

    Also, I think this is the correct link for the Wil Wheaton stuff mentioned in the OP? Also good stuff.

    And a good point to raise the question: How are we six pages in and haven't mentioned any of the industry's ridiculous (if not absurd) demands from their side of the bargaining table?

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    i dont know, why didn't you?

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  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Well, since I assume shit hasn't changed since Wil Wheaton posted on the matter last year, the egregious ones were:
    Our employers want to be able to fine you $2,500 if you show up late or are not “attentive to the services for which [you] have been engaged.” This means you could be fined for almost anything: checking an incoming text, posting to your Twitter feed, even zoning out for a second. If a producer feels you are being “inattentive,” they want the option to fine you $2,500.
    Our employers want to be able to fine the union $50,000-$100,000 if your franchised agent doesn’t send you out on certain auditions (like Atmospheric Voices or One Hour One Voice sessions)
    If your agent chooses not to submit you for certain auditions, our employers want to put into our contract language forcing SAG-AFTRA to revoke your agent’s union franchise. This would mean that your agency would not be able to send you out on any union jobs, including those in animation, TV/film, commercials, etc.

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  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One The Lord of No Pants Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    Yeah some of that sounds like bull shit to me.
    "Miss Tara Strong. For coughing we're going to have to fine you $2k"
    Queue Tara Strong transitioning from her Twilight Sparkle voice to Princess Clara or Harley Quinn voice telling you to suck her dick

    "We also want to blacklist Steve Blum, Nolan North, and Tara Strong from any further video game voice acting"
    "....so you're saying you want to blacklist 60% of the voice actors in videogames?"

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    haha, yeah, no

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    Well, since I assume shit hasn't changed since Wil Wheaton posted on the matter last year, the egregious ones were:
    Our employers want to be able to fine you $2,500 if you show up late or are not “attentive to the services for which [you] have been engaged.” This means you could be fined for almost anything: checking an incoming text, posting to your Twitter feed, even zoning out for a second. If a producer feels you are being “inattentive,” they want the option to fine you $2,500.
    Our employers want to be able to fine the union $50,000-$100,000 if your franchised agent doesn’t send you out on certain auditions (like Atmospheric Voices or One Hour One Voice sessions)
    If your agent chooses not to submit you for certain auditions, our employers want to put into our contract language forcing SAG-AFTRA to revoke your agent’s union franchise. This would mean that your agency would not be able to send you out on any union jobs, including those in animation, TV/film, commercials, etc.

    Oh right, I'd forgotten just how fucking insane the studios demands are here. Why not just ask for slavery and be done with it?

    I mean, hyperbole... slightly. But those are fucking ludicrous and 2/3 have nothing to do with working conditions and everything to do with attacking the union itself.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Those demands are probably part of the typical "ask for way more than what you want, give up things you don't want as bargaining tools" that every union negotiation sees from both sides.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Those demands are probably part of the typical "ask for way more than what you want, give up things you don't want as bargaining tools" that every union negotiation sees from both sides.

    Usually, the starting position isn't that extreme I think.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    The voice actors are asking for mostly rather reasonable things.

    The publishers are trying to bend them over a barrel.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    I could see a fine for not showing up on time (although the one they're asking for is pretty extreme), the "non-engagement" thing might be studios trying to combat VAs intentionally lagging in order to pad out the number of sessions.

    Not sure what they're doing with the audition thing, unless they're trying to prevent a de-facto strike from occuring in the future (they're not officially on strike, but no agents are sending them VAs). This could be a problem since they are also demanding that game developers not be allowed to utilize non-union talent (just another way this particular union is bullying non-union VA talent).

    We'd need a better breakdown from inside a dev team to be sure though. Right now we're getting a lot of explanations on demands from VAs and union staff, but not a lot from the other side.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I don't even understand the last two demands. I assume "our employer" means the publisher/developer hiring the actor, like EA, Ubisoft, that kind of thing. A fine for acting like an ass on the job I can see. But demanding fines and other actions for not sending them on auditions? I assume it's their auditions, otherwise this really doesn't make any fucking sense. What the fuck does the person hiring the actor have any business doing demanding a fine for what the actor does or does not do on their own free time?

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    I could see a fine for not showing up on time (although the one they're asking for is pretty extreme), the "non-engagement" thing might be studios trying to combat VAs intentionally lagging in order to pad out the number of sessions.

    Not sure what they're doing with the audition thing, unless they're trying to prevent a de-facto strike from occuring in the future (they're not officially on strike, but no agents are sending them VAs). This could be a problem since they are also demanding that game developers not be allowed to utilize non-union talent (just another way this particular union is bullying non-union VA talent).

    We'd need a better breakdown from inside a dev team to be sure though. Right now we're getting a lot of explanations on demands from VAs and union staff, but not a lot from the other side.

    Isn't the punishment for a lagging VA that a Studio doesn't hire them again? Also, given the numbers thrown out so far, you could just hire VA's for a single session, fine them, then they'd owe YOU money far in excess of what they'd be paid.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    I would imagine that the lack of a mention of fines and the like within strike announcements and such would suggest they are either things that are off the table, or that were actually agreed upon in some fashion. See:
    The two issues of greatest contention are transparency and secondary compensation. While the companies are willing to disclose potentially objectionable material that may be involved in the role, they refuse to tell the performer’s agent what game the actor will be working on. This keeps the performer from being able to make an educated decision about whether to take job. This is unheard of in any of our other contracts.

    Regarding secondary compensation, employers have offered to give actors an upfront bonus based on number of sessions worked, starting at the second session worked. The negotiating team is willing to agree to their proposal, as long as secondary compensation is an option. In other words, an employer would have the option to buy out an actor by paying a bonus upfront or, if they prefer, they would have the option to pay a bonus after the game releases, if the game happens to sell more than 2 million units. The employers have refused to consider this option, excluding games from union talent if they are unable to afford the upfront bonus structure.

    Source

    Regarding the hours and stressful conditions, see:
    ... “Among their proposals, the companies offered to split a four-hour recording session into two, two-hour portions with the second session to be performed within five days of the first session to ease the stress on performers, but this and other offers were rejected by SAG-AFTRA,” Witlin said. “This is an area that the parties have agreed to continue to collaboratively investigate during the term of the next contract. Exploring ways to further improve working conditions is something both sides should be committed to.”

    Source

    Where the disagreement on that point likely comes from the Union wanting the session to be reduced to a two hour session, but paid like a four hour session instead of being split into two separate sessions.

    edit: Forgot that I also have to mention this, but: I do feel that the compensation increase for the VA workers and better safety measures should be provided. The issues involved are nuanced, etc, etc.

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  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Regarding the hours and stressful conditions, see:
    ... “Among their proposals, the companies offered to split a four-hour recording session into two, two-hour portions with the second session to be performed within five days of the first session to ease the stress on performers, but this and other offers were rejected by SAG-AFTRA,” Witlin said. “This is an area that the parties have agreed to continue to collaboratively investigate during the term of the next contract. Exploring ways to further improve working conditions is something both sides should be committed to.”

    Source
    Where the disagreement on that point likely comes from the Union wanting the session to be reduced to a two hour session, but paid like a four hour session instead of being split into two separate sessions.

    My understanding is that the problem is with vocally stressful sessions, and depending on what the assorted professionals and OSHA said two vocally stressful sessions in a five day period may be too much without enough time to recover. It can be worse if the character speaks in a way that is already hard on your vocal chords (Steve Blum's Starscream is one example). Any way of speaking that causes your throat to hurt can cause permanent damage, changing some qualities of your voice or eventually requiring surgery.

    And honestly...if the work they are demanding is something that temporarily prevents you from working (can't use your voice so it can recover) it doesn't seem unfair to charge the same amount for the session.

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    Regarding the hours and stressful conditions, see:
    ... “Among their proposals, the companies offered to split a four-hour recording session into two, two-hour portions with the second session to be performed within five days of the first session to ease the stress on performers, but this and other offers were rejected by SAG-AFTRA,” Witlin said. “This is an area that the parties have agreed to continue to collaboratively investigate during the term of the next contract. Exploring ways to further improve working conditions is something both sides should be committed to.”

    Source
    Where the disagreement on that point likely comes from the Union wanting the session to be reduced to a two hour session, but paid like a four hour session instead of being split into two separate sessions.

    My understanding is that the problem is with vocally stressful sessions, and depending on what the assorted professionals and OSHA said two vocally stressful sessions in a five day period may be too much without enough time to recover. It can be worse if the character speaks in a way that is already hard on your vocal chords (Steve Blum's Starscream is one example). Any way of speaking that causes your throat to hurt can cause permanent damage, changing some qualities of your voice or eventually requiring surgery.

    And honestly...if the work they are demanding is something that temporarily prevents you from working (can't use your voice so it can recover) it doesn't seem unfair to charge the same amount for the session.

    Which is where a balance must be struck. Because even if the session is split into two across five days max, it doesn't necessarily mean that the actor isn't using his voice for other work, to audition, or to well simply be the primary component for basic human interaction, and thus exposing this strained asset to more damage between sessions.

    So, you've bought 4 hours of labor, only gotten 2 hours of labor and while half the pending work was done, the rest can't be even though you've paid for the four hours of labor. Also, what constitutes a vocally stressful session? Perhaps vocally stressful sessions drop to two hours, are billed at three? IDK.

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  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Which is where a balance must be struck. Because even if the session is split into two across five days max, it doesn't necessarily mean that the actor isn't using his voice for other work, to audition, or to well simply be the primary component for basic human interaction, and thus exposing this strained asset to more damage between sessions.
    You might want to read this. That covers working conditions and gives you some follow along things you can try. Afterwards he mentions:
    If you’ve done this as I asked, it’s now six or seven hours after you started. Don’t talk at all for the rest of the day, and don’t make any plans to go audition for any other voice work for the rest of the week, because your voice is wrecked. Don’t go to any kind of day job that requires you to talk with anyone, either, because you’re not going to be able to do that. Oh, and over years and years of this, it’s going to build up into serious and permanent damage … and then you’re not going to be able to work with your voice anymore.

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    Which is where a balance must be struck. Because even if the session is split into two across five days max, it doesn't necessarily mean that the actor isn't using his voice for other work, to audition, or to well simply be the primary component for basic human interaction, and thus exposing this strained asset to more damage between sessions.
    You might want to read this. That covers working conditions and gives you some follow along things you can try. Afterwards he mentions:
    If you’ve done this as I asked, it’s now six or seven hours after you started. Don’t talk at all for the rest of the day, and don’t make any plans to go audition for any other voice work for the rest of the week, because your voice is wrecked. Don’t go to any kind of day job that requires you to talk with anyone, either, because you’re not going to be able to do that. Oh, and over years and years of this, it’s going to build up into serious and permanent damage … and then you’re not going to be able to work with your voice anymore.

    I read that when this thread was on page 1 and it still doesn't change what I said. I thought the comments were more interesting though. Would love to see what Ingato and "S" are saying about the situation now. In any case, you're treating a paragraph presented as part of an illustration as fact. In the real world, there is the possibility of them using their voice for other work, to audition, or to otherwise communicate with people. Does this mean that I think the work isn't strenuous or damaging? Nope. Would a person be reluctant to use their voice further after working it? Absolutely, in the same way that a person who is engaged in physical labor would be reluctant to do said labor at home after a particularly rough day. But the facts of life as they are, if you have to, you will. Again, this isn't a black and white, yes/no, right/wrong thing.

    I didn't say they shouldn't be paid more for "strenuous work," but paying them the same rate for two hours of work vs four is the place of contention. So again, maybe they have a separate rate for shorter stressful sessions that isn't equal or greater to the rate to a non-stressful full length session. Because they should be paid more for their work, generally speaking. That's where negotiations come into play.

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  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Let me tell you guys another reality of VA:
    They usually do multiple jobs a day, they need to commute all over town. Being a bit late is normal. Of course, I don't mean Nolan North when recording Uncharted, but all those other guys who do the "other voices".
    That fine would be supremely bullshit for a lot of people.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Those demands are probably part of the typical "ask for way more than what you want, give up things you don't want as bargaining tools" that every union negotiation sees from both sides.

    Usually, the starting position isn't that extreme I think.

    Yeah, there's extreme starting positions that seem meant to provide an outer range for negotiation, and extreme starting positions that seem more about forcing the strike to begin with, as often as not with an eye to trying to break the union rather than get concessions.

    A local newspaper's in month ten of a strike which launched due to the latter; one of management's demands is that they should be able to pay women less than men for the same work.

    Starting points are one thing, but sometimes some of the demands actually are just malevolent.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Let me tell you guys another reality of VA:
    They usually do multiple jobs a day, they need to commute all over town. Being a bit late is normal. Of course, I don't mean Nolan North when recording Uncharted, but all those other guys who do the "other voices".
    That fine would be supremely bullshit for a lot of people.

    Let me tell you a reality of being a professional (in literally any field):

    Your "busy schedule" isn't your employer's concern. If you agree to a contract that states you will be at the location and ready to work at X o'clock, you need to be there at that time. Your employer is likely renting that studio for a specified number of hours, they don't get a break on that cost because you were late.

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  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Let me tell you guys another reality of VA:
    They usually do multiple jobs a day, they need to commute all over town. Being a bit late is normal. Of course, I don't mean Nolan North when recording Uncharted, but all those other guys who do the "other voices".
    That fine would be supremely bullshit for a lot of people.

    Let me tell you a reality of being a professional (in literally any field):

    Your "busy schedule" isn't your employer's concern. If you agree to a contract that states you will be at the location and ready to work at X o'clock, you need to be there at that time. Your employer is likely renting that studio for a specified number of hours, they don't get a break on that cost because you were late.


    Those people need to book multiple jobs a day because, guess what, they need the multiple job money because they don't get payed well enough per job! so it's the employer's responsibility that they need to commute around.

    It's pretty easy to spout silly stuff like "isn't your employer's concern" on a random forum, but employers created the shitty environment that fucks up everyone.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Those people need to book multiple jobs a day because, guess what, they need the multiple job money because they don't get payed well enough per job! so it's the employer's responsibility that they need to commute around.

    It's pretty easy to spout silly stuff like "isn't your employer's concern" on a random forum, but employers created the shitty environment that fucks up everyone.

    Uhhh... Show up to work late tomorrow and then tell your boss that you're late because you were off working for someone else and that they shouldn't be angry at you because it's really their fault you didn't show up to work on time and tell us how well that goes for you.

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Aye, I don't think that the proposed fine was meant to target the "other guys." But as Smoke says... getting to work on time is a real world thing that all must do. The fine is actually generous (vs being fired and all). That and the inattentiveness stuff were likely directed toward the "big guys."

    I say "were" because in the SAG declarations, that isn't mentioned. So, it's safe to assume that an agreement was made on that front, or the notion was dropped.

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    SmokeStacks, I get the feeling you also shout stuff like, "I can balance my household budget, why can't the government balance theirs?"

    Every situation is not directly relatable to yours.

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  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    All this VA talk is reminding me that I pulled a 22-year-old-Fawst move and blew getting a job at Soup 2 Nuts back in 2001 (Dr. Katz, Home Movies, Word Girl) as an audio engineer. (Edit: spoilered for off-topic stuff)
    I had zero experience as an audio engineer. My cover letter basically said that. "I have all of the qualifications you're looking for, except for anything to do with being an audio engineer." I'm still stunned to this day that I got as far as being told what the pay was and kind of scoffed at it (when my ignorant ass didn't deserve it in the first place). Hey, at least I have a memento to remember my stupidity: the engineer I interviewed with gave me Jon Benjamin's shooting script for an episode they had just finished recording the night before. It was sitting in the booth and he was like "Hey, you like McGuirk? Here, have this." Now that I think about it, I have never even read that script. I don't even know which episode it's for. I really should read it and watch the episode to see how they compare.

    Holy fucking shit. I just realized, I could have worked with Louis C.K.

    Someone get me a time machine. I know a 22-year-old that needs to be punched in the mouth.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Let me tell you guys another reality of VA:
    They usually do multiple jobs a day, they need to commute all over town. Being a bit late is normal. Of course, I don't mean Nolan North when recording Uncharted, but all those other guys who do the "other voices".
    That fine would be supremely bullshit for a lot of people.

    Let me tell you a reality of being a professional (in literally any field):

    Your "busy schedule" isn't your employer's concern. If you agree to a contract that states you will be at the location and ready to work at X o'clock, you need to be there at that time. Your employer is likely renting that studio for a specified number of hours, they don't get a break on that cost because you were late.


    Those people need to book multiple jobs a day because, guess what, they need the multiple job money because they don't get payed well enough per job! so it's the employer's responsibility that they need to commute around.

    It's pretty easy to spout silly stuff like "isn't your employer's concern" on a random forum, but employers created the shitty environment that fucks up everyone.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    SmokeStacks, I get the feeling you also shout stuff like, "I can balance my household budget, why can't the government balance theirs?"

    Every situation is not directly relatable to yours.

    Showing up on time for work is not a difficult concept for adults.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    SmokeStacks, I get the feeling you also shout stuff like, "I can balance my household budget, why can't the government balance theirs?"

    Every situation is not directly relatable to yours.

    Showing up on time for work is not a difficult concept for adults.

    I'm guessing you've never driven in LA.

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    SmokeStacks, I get the feeling you also shout stuff like, "I can balance my household budget, why can't the government balance theirs?"

    Every situation is not directly relatable to yours.

    Showing up on time for work is not a difficult concept for adults.

    My point stands. There's plenty of contract jobs where exact time of arrival is not the primary thing.

    What is this I don't even.
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