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David [Chat] Pumpkins

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    credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    So I can imagine that for liara you could have sex whenever, so choosing the end felt arbitrary. I believe that with Kaiden you explicitly discuss that you'd like to, but given that you are his commanding officer, you are not going to right now. So it makes sense that you wait until it gets really desperate and you figure you'll probably die anyway.
    But of course, the way that in dragon age: inquisition you have sex maybe at the midway point and then spend the rest of the game hanging out, and your girlfriend bakes you cookies and whatnot...that was much nicer!

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
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    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Feral wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    Arguably the best thing that the ME trilogy does (in regards to relationships) is in ME3 when they show your paramour's reactions to your actions in ME2

    Also: Lair of the Shadow Broker

    I don't remember Liara's reactions to my ME2 actions, but yeah, Lair of the Shadow Broker is once of the finest pieces of video game romance/character writing I think I've ever seen, goddamn I love it and its bittersweet end.

  • Options
    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    So I can imagine that for liara you could have sex whenever, so choosing the end felt arbitrary. I believe that with Kaiden you explicitly discuss that you'd like to, but given that you are his commanding officer, you are not going to right now. So it makes sense that you wait until it gets really desperate and you figure you'll probably die anyway.
    But of course, the way that in dragon age: inquisition you have sex maybe at the midway point and then spend the rest of the game hanging out, and your girlfriend bakes you cookies and whatnot...that was much nicer!

    Ok, I still don't think I like that arc, but it makes sense with Kaiden. With Liara it definitely feels arbitrary in a way that shows that it was written with sex being the victory condition.

    Anyway I have to go stab a brain, brb

  • Options
    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    Arguably the best thing that the ME trilogy does (in regards to relationships) is in ME3 when they show your paramour's reactions to your actions in ME2

    Also: Lair of the Shadow Broker

    I don't remember Liara's reactions to my ME2 actions, but yeah, Lair of the Shadow Broker is once of the finest pieces of video game romance/character writing I think I've ever seen, goddamn I love it and its bittersweet end.

    You get different dialog if you romanced somebody else in ME2.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Six wrote: »
    @Six @emnmnme

    https://snag.gy/sFYtqR.jpg

    those were some depressing games.

    I feel we did not accomplish our goals.

    that is an understatement.

    steam_sig.png
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    due that humblebrag

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    Arguably the best thing that the ME trilogy does (in regards to relationships) is in ME3 when they show your paramour's reactions to your actions in ME2

    Also: Lair of the Shadow Broker

    I don't remember Liara's reactions to my ME2 actions, but yeah, Lair of the Shadow Broker is once of the finest pieces of video game romance/character writing I think I've ever seen, goddamn I love it and its bittersweet end.

    You get different dialog if you romanced somebody else in ME2.

    Yeah if you bang Miranda she just high fives you. "Damn Shep that's a booty, good job boy."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Those poor puppies just want to be inside.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    So I can imagine that for liara you could have sex whenever, so choosing the end felt arbitrary. I believe that with Kaiden you explicitly discuss that you'd like to, but given that you are his commanding officer, you are not going to right now. So it makes sense that you wait until it gets really desperate and you figure you'll probably die anyway.
    But of course, the way that in dragon age: inquisition you have sex maybe at the midway point and then spend the rest of the game hanging out, and your girlfriend bakes you cookies and whatnot...that was much nicer!

    This is one of the things I'd really like to see more in RPGs, relationships that follow different paths

    Bioware pretty much always, with some variation, goes like: okay Agree with Character 8 times to start romance, agree 12 times for kissing, agree with them 15 times and get to sex them before the end of the game as a reward.

    Like the sex isn't so much part of a story about an evolving relationship between two characters, it's just a reward for the player. It's just juvenile.

    DA:I was a bitter cleverer about at least mixing up the pacing of that formula, but like especially for most of the female characters it was still "just keep saying with what she wants to hear to eventually get sexytime."

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Playing Until Dawn

    I don't think it's spoilery to say wow these teenage future victims students really like leaning into the dramatic irony with all these fake scares.

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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    em it is very mean to make fun of someone's laugh don't be a monster!

    this is such a weird trigger point for you

    i have exactly the laugh i described so i have no compunctions

    it is so personal and instinctive! it is a moment of joy and ultimately, vulnerability

    how is it odd or weird that someone would be sensitive to their laugh being mocked

    you just react strongly to any mockery of laughter and it's unusual

    as i said, i have never even heard ppups laugh, so i am just fabricating accusations to hurl at him in the absence of genuine openings

    with enough abuse he will reveal a weakness and i will gouge him

    it's weaknesses all the way down

    sig.gif
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    rockrngerrockrnger Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    So I can imagine that for liara you could have sex whenever, so choosing the end felt arbitrary. I believe that with Kaiden you explicitly discuss that you'd like to, but given that you are his commanding officer, you are not going to right now. So it makes sense that you wait until it gets really desperate and you figure you'll probably die anyway.
    But of course, the way that in dragon age: inquisition you have sex maybe at the midway point and then spend the rest of the game hanging out, and your girlfriend bakes you cookies and whatnot...that was much nicer!

    This is one of the things I'd really like to see more in RPGs, relationships that follow different paths

    Bioware pretty much always, with some variation, goes like: okay Agree with Character 8 times to start romance, agree 12 times for kissing, agree with them 15 times and get to sex them before the end of the game as a reward.

    Like the sex isn't so much part of a story about an evolving relationship between two characters, it's just a reward for the player. It's just juvenile.

    DA:I was a bitter cleverer about at least mixing up the pacing of that formula, but like especially for most of the female characters it was still "just keep saying with what she wants to hear to eventually get sexytime."

    Yeah, just caus its realistic doesn't mean it's fun.

  • Options
    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    also the reason i disappeared for over an hour

    was i had a 30 minute 1x1 with my dork king boss

    he is so fake

    i watched the dream police video this morning and it said to "beware of platitudinous ponderosities" and i was like "!!!... My boss!"

    i had to be fake with him

    weave a little truth in as the undercurrent beneath the surface fakery in vain hope that if I do it enough times he will retain it

    our 30 minute meeting lasted for 75 minutes

    sig.gif
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2016
    he is so fake

    ...

    i had to be fake with him

    *raises eyebrow, inclines head marginally in the direction of the triumvirate of subversion, eddy and EM and dank*

    Organichu on
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    Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited October 2016
    EM is cruel and merciless

    His wall is lined with pictures of teary-eyed children, taken at the exact moment his cruel barbs tore their self-esteem to shreds, and he keeps a vial of those tears at his side to sup from, from time to time, for that is how he sustains his twisted soul

    Havelock2.0 on
    You go in the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water, our shark.
  • Options
    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    he is so fake

    ...

    i had to be fake with him

    *raises eyebrow, inclines head marginally in the direction of the triumvirate of subversion, eddy and EM and dank*

    i do not yet understand what you are implying or what is notable about my post

    sig.gif
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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    *Kicks in the door.*

    MUSCLE

    MUSCLE

    MUSCLE

    WHAT?!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ15vCGuvH0

  • Options
    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    EM is cruel and merciless

    His wall is lined with pictures of teary-eyed children, taken at the exact moment his cruel barbs tore their self-esteem to shreds, and he keeps a vial of those tears at his side to sup from, from time to time, for that is how he sustains his twisted soul
    Yellowing paper labels festoon these vials, with sepia-toned ink indicating vintage and location with calligraphic flourishes.

    "Ah yes, 1996," he muses. "That was a very good tear..."

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Organichu wrote: »
    he is so fake

    ...

    i had to be fake with him

    *raises eyebrow, inclines head marginally in the direction of the triumvirate of subversion, eddy and EM and dank*

    i do not yet understand what you are implying or what is notable about my post

    take more time, we will reconvene once congress is in session

  • Options
    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    he is so fake

    ...

    i had to be fake with him

    *raises eyebrow, inclines head marginally in the direction of the triumvirate of subversion, eddy and EM and dank*

    i do not yet understand what you are implying or what is notable about my post

    take more time, we will reconvene once congress is in session

    excellent thank you

    sig.gif
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Obsidian is like if Bioware gave a shit

    I am p sure bioware gives a shit

    I like obsidian too - I have mastered the esoteric arts of liking two similar things at the same time - but I am not thrilled with obsidian seemingly angling themselves hard at the cheetovore crowd who get super mad about "SJWs"

    wait whats this now
    Honk wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Obsidian is like if Bioware gave a shit

    I am p sure bioware gives a shit

    I like obsidian too - I have mastered the esoteric arts of liking two similar things at the same time - but I am not thrilled with obsidian seemingly angling themselves hard at the cheetovore crowd who get super mad about "SJWs"

    Have they done something specifically on this line or is it like in a general sense you get from them?

    Pillars of Eternity's kickstarter campaign and promo interviews etc had this whole "this is REAL roleplaying for REAL roleplayers, we know how you guys feel about those icky romances that other companies do :wink: " vibe going on and the glooberbarbl crowd anointed them as the chosen ones

    If it wasn't actual dogwhistling - and it msy not have been as the actual game is fine -it felt like they were perfectly happy with having that crowd in their corner

    I have complex feelings about all of that. More than I normally would like to admit about a bleep bloop vidcon company; suffice it to say that I resent you for baiting me into a real conversation with nuance!

    I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity immensely, and had a very different read in re: REAL roleplaying for REAL roleplayers... no icky romances.
    As far as I'm concerned, Bioware Romance is synonymous with fanservice nonsense.

    You know what would would have been a much better Mass Effect Romance? If Shephard had such immense anxiety from the PTSD of fighting galaxy-devouring robots that he couldn't get it up to fuck; Jack and Shephard then actually bond over how enormously horrific being a one-person war machine is, and resolve to attend group meetings 'once all of this settles'

    PoE didn't have any of that, as far as I could tell. I didn't go looking for a romance in it, so if I completely missed an MRA subplot then I suppose my experience was better for it.
    The whole kickstarter pledge to insert whatever you want into our videogame was a mistake, but I think they as a company handled that pretty well.. They ran it back in a way that I'm not sure if I agree with, but I absolutely respect.

    You got a different read from it, and I suspect a solid majority of the PA community did as well. That's fine. The trend of 'X company did something disagreeable and so I can't feel good about them' is absurd. It reeks of absolutism that I don't think is genuinely even the stance of the poster, but lends itself to this sharp line in the sand being drawn after every scandal regardless of magnitude: if you don't agree you are complicit in the stances that other people that like what you like also like.

    Bioware is a shell of the company that produced games that I loved. Obsidian produces games very similar to ones I loved, but has some weird social baggage that they recently accrued.

    I just wanted to some easy agrees for memebating aioua's 'X is like if Y gave a shit' why do you keep pushing me to be something more

    tryhard posting is like if shitposting gave a shit, I guess :(

    okay I just got back from the gym and I am waiting on food so I am going to type in bullet points rather than quote mining everything

    - I don't get the "fanservice" complaint in this context. Unlike actual fanservice panty shots and shit, it's not an unwelcome intrusion; nobody is forcing you to engage with that element of the game. It also feels like an en passant gripe about those not-real gamers with their pinterests and their cosplays.

    - I have seen so many discussions take the shape of "oh well obviously these videogame romances are terrible except for [the one I did], why can't they all be like [the one I did] because it was super great and I really connected to what was going on" which you think would maybe inspire a bit of introspection about the degree to which it can be a very personal reaction but lol nope

    - I don't think Pillars had an MRA subplot. As I said, I think the game itself was fine. But the positioning of it as REAL roleplaying left a really shitty taste in my mouth, a) because D&D-style gear- and stats-based quasi-real-time tactical combat is not actually the end all and be all of roleplaying and these allegedly REAL gamers might know this if they had ever actually played a tabletop game and b) it was tapping into this giant well of grievance about all of bioware's terrible sins with regard to, like, oh man, this lady who writes there said it would be cool to have a story mode in games for people who just want to play the story and not fuck around with 30 hours of man-shooting

    - I don't think bioware is a hollow shell of a company. every single one of their games has tried to push the envelope in a new way. sometimes they fall right on their fucking face, as with the ME3 ending, or maybe kind of get lost down a blind alley, as with inquisition going all-in on the companion characterizations to the exclusion of almost anything else. but all of these new things get taken as proof that, i don't even fucking know, EA is going to steal your firstborn or something.

    - meanwhile, Pillars had a very good story but serious gameplay and balance issues, as well as the bugs that have become an Obsidian byword, but that's okay because it has sent up the correct subcultural smoke signals. I still enjoyed the game, but I think the game is the beneficiary of a ridiculous double standard among people who pride themselves on being the leet hardcorex

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    I ate an engineer
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    God, en passant gripe? Cheetovore? @Jacobkosh is on FIRE today!

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    i did not enjoy PoE gameplay one bit

    it was similarly difficult as when i tried to go back to the first dragon age

    sig.gif
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    i also noted and reflected on 'en passant gripe' separately from the rest of the post

    sig.gif
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2016
    i don't say this nastily tho it might come off that way: my favorite thing about facebook now is watching various classes of friends- grad students, writers, retail workers, tech workers- make their jobs sound not only more important than other jobs but like, more... interesting? no. nuanced? culturally telling? i hesitate to name examples lest any chatters take specific umbrage if they belong to that group but there is just something about like, #just[occupation]things and all the related kind of commentary that makes me laugh.

    it is good that i value not taking one's identity too seriously or else i'd hate myself and all my friends

    Organichu on
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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Ahem.

    Seven year old talked back to me tonight.

    I told him no dinner and then made his favorite for -everyone- else.

    I burnt/baked a potato for him and told him that was his dinner.

    Now obviously I didn't make him eat the burnt to a crisp potato but boy have I found the ultimate problem solving method

    at least until he's old enough to make his own dinner

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Obsidian is like if Bioware gave a shit

    I am p sure bioware gives a shit

    I like obsidian too - I have mastered the esoteric arts of liking two similar things at the same time - but I am not thrilled with obsidian seemingly angling themselves hard at the cheetovore crowd who get super mad about "SJWs"

    wait whats this now
    Honk wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grape Ape wrote: »
    Obsidian is like if Bioware gave a shit

    I am p sure bioware gives a shit

    I like obsidian too - I have mastered the esoteric arts of liking two similar things at the same time - but I am not thrilled with obsidian seemingly angling themselves hard at the cheetovore crowd who get super mad about "SJWs"

    Have they done something specifically on this line or is it like in a general sense you get from them?

    Pillars of Eternity's kickstarter campaign and promo interviews etc had this whole "this is REAL roleplaying for REAL roleplayers, we know how you guys feel about those icky romances that other companies do :wink: " vibe going on and the glooberbarbl crowd anointed them as the chosen ones

    If it wasn't actual dogwhistling - and it msy not have been as the actual game is fine -it felt like they were perfectly happy with having that crowd in their corner

    I have complex feelings about all of that. More than I normally would like to admit about a bleep bloop vidcon company; suffice it to say that I resent you for baiting me into a real conversation with nuance!

    I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity immensely, and had a very different read in re: REAL roleplaying for REAL roleplayers... no icky romances.
    As far as I'm concerned, Bioware Romance is synonymous with fanservice nonsense.

    You know what would would have been a much better Mass Effect Romance? If Shephard had such immense anxiety from the PTSD of fighting galaxy-devouring robots that he couldn't get it up to fuck; Jack and Shephard then actually bond over how enormously horrific being a one-person war machine is, and resolve to attend group meetings 'once all of this settles'

    PoE didn't have any of that, as far as I could tell. I didn't go looking for a romance in it, so if I completely missed an MRA subplot then I suppose my experience was better for it.
    The whole kickstarter pledge to insert whatever you want into our videogame was a mistake, but I think they as a company handled that pretty well.. They ran it back in a way that I'm not sure if I agree with, but I absolutely respect.

    You got a different read from it, and I suspect a solid majority of the PA community did as well. That's fine. The trend of 'X company did something disagreeable and so I can't feel good about them' is absurd. It reeks of absolutism that I don't think is genuinely even the stance of the poster, but lends itself to this sharp line in the sand being drawn after every scandal regardless of magnitude: if you don't agree you are complicit in the stances that other people that like what you like also like.

    Bioware is a shell of the company that produced games that I loved. Obsidian produces games very similar to ones I loved, but has some weird social baggage that they recently accrued.

    I just wanted to some easy agrees for memebating aioua's 'X is like if Y gave a shit' why do you keep pushing me to be something more

    tryhard posting is like if shitposting gave a shit, I guess :(

    okay I just got back from the gym and I am waiting on food so I am going to type in bullet points rather than quote mining everything

    - I don't get the "fanservice" complaint in this context. Unlike actual fanservice panty shots and shit, it's not an unwelcome intrusion; nobody is forcing you to engage with that element of the game. It also feels like an en passant gripe about those not-real gamers with their pinterests and their cosplays.

    - I have seen so many discussions take the shape of "oh well obviously these videogame romances are terrible except for [the one I did], why can't they all be like [the one I did] because it was super great and I really connected to what was going on" which you think would maybe inspire a bit of introspection about the degree to which it can be a very personal reaction but lol nope

    - I don't think Pillars had an MRA subplot. As I said, I think the game itself was fine. But the positioning of it as REAL roleplaying left a really shitty taste in my mouth, a) because D&D-style gear- and stats-based quasi-real-time tactical combat is not actually the end all and be all of roleplaying and these allegedly REAL gamers might know this if they had ever actually played a tabletop game and b) it was tapping into this giant well of grievance about all of bioware's terrible sins with regard to, like, oh man, this lady who writes there said it would be cool to have a story mode in games for people who just want to play the story and not fuck around with 30 hours of man-shooting

    - I don't think bioware is a hollow shell of a company. every single one of their games has tried to push the envelope in a new way. sometimes they fall right on their fucking face, as with the ME3 ending, or maybe kind of get lost down a blind alley, as with inquisition going all-in on the companion characterizations to the exclusion of almost anything else. but all of these new things get taken as proof that, i don't even fucking know, EA is going to steal your firstborn or something.

    - meanwhile, Pillars had a very good story but serious gameplay and balance issues, as well as the bugs that have become an Obsidian byword, but that's okay because it has sent up the correct subcultural smoke signals. I still enjoyed the game, but I think the game is the beneficiary of a ridiculous double standard among people who pride themselves on being the leet hardcorex

    Just my typical side rant, but: Pillars of Eternity encounter design was crap and intentionally going for the "Wizards get a pile of awesome save or dies, warriors get to spend three feats to trip people" class setup was an obviously terrible decision made to throw it back to people who think D&D 3.5e is the epitome of balance. And yet in spite of that they managed to completely neuter any sort of interesting/gamebreaking character building with how boring and uninspired their feat choices were!

    I ate an engineer
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    Organichu wrote: »
    i don't say this nastily tho it might come off that way: my favorite thing about facebook now is watching various classes of friends- grad students, writers, retail workers, tech workers- make their jobs sound not only more important than other jobs but like, more... interesting? no. nuanced? culturally telling? i hesitate to name examples lest any chatters take specific umbrage if they belong to that group but there is just something about like, #just[occupation]things and all the related kind of commentary that makes me laugh.

    it is good that i value not taking one's identity too seriously or else i'd hate myself and all my friends
    If I did that, I probably would be fired. Due to the NDA I signed and all. :-P

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Did not realize Patient 0 was a term that came from the initial aids outbreak, and it referred to a person not from california. It was supposed to be patient o for outside california.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Before posting, always stop and think: is this too far? Am I a little sweaty, a little hesitant, because of this post's cruel specificity?

    If the answer is no, don't bother.

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    I am genealogising

    Found an ancestor who was nine years old in 1861, has father's surname but is living with the mother who has reverted to their maiden name and has moved back in with her side of the family (her father and brothers) because the father died young

    Google map the address to see if it still exists, it does

    Street view to see if the buildings look like they are old enough to be the buildings in the census entry

    Van parked outside the 1861 house is signwritten [ancestor's mother's surname]'s Carpets and Floorcoverings

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    obsidian should make a new fallout tho

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Ahem.

    Seven year old talked back to me tonight.

    I told him no dinner and then made his favorite for -everyone- else.

    I burnt/baked a potato for him and told him that was his dinner.

    Now obviously I didn't make him eat the burnt to a crisp potato but boy have I found the ultimate problem solving method

    at least until he's old enough to make his own dinner

    I'm going to say that without context as to what "talked back" meant, denying your kid food while specifically making his favorite for others to torture him sounds like an extreme overreaction.

    I ate an engineer
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    One of the bits in Witcher 3 I really liked is how Geralt and Yennifer sorta feel like a divorced couple realizing they want to get back together. And one of the things that really ties them together isn't just the relationship between each other, its that they both think of Geralt's ward Ciri as a daughter and no matter what else they argue about they've both 100% dedicated to Ciri.

    Like it's still got vidya game sexytimes, but they started having sex well before the beginning of witcher 3, their story arc is more about an emotional rapprochement long after the first blush of the relationship has worn off.

    It really contrasts with most other RPG relationships, where like all you have to do is just agree with whatever they say a bunch and never disagree or clash on anything and be rewarded with sex and a conflict-free romantic relationship from there on out. It's just a really boring way to write human relationships.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    obsidian positioning itself as the 'mature' / 'real' alternative to Bioware goes back to kotor1/kotor2 and nwn1/nwn2 tho

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    The thing I hate is the sex as victory, which is definitely the case in earlier ME, but in later ones it's just part of stuff.

    But a sex scene is a good way to show that you've progressed to the next level of intimacy in many relationship models! Like not everyone does that and some people fuck first obviously, but it makes sense that that is how relationship progress can be shown? It's also for many people a clear line between 'we are flirting' and 'we are dating'.

    I think one reason the Isabella relationship is good is because the way you know she actually cares is more about conversation and her life choices rather than her sleeping with you--although there's also that of course!

    Oh no, that's definitely true! Sex is a good way of showing you've progressed to a level of intimacy for many people, especially if there's a build up and fear but desire and etc. But it's not the only thing, and there is more after it. First time sex between people is a big deal (well, it can be), and definitely deserves to be part of romances, but like, what about all the stuff after? If anything, it makes the relationship deeper - yet that's ignored completely in many games, because sex happened, sideplot over.

    Basically I don't think I disagree with you. Sex is important. It just isn't the victory state of a relationship.

    Right, I just haven't actually played a game where that is the case, I think? Maybe because I consider game sequels to be continuations of the plot. But even within single games, I can't think of when this happened.

    I don't remember more than perhaps a tiny side mention of romance stuff with Liara after sex with her, at least.

    Hm yeah my memories of ME1 are pretty faint. I think you boned really close to the end, and then it was just crisis crisis crisis, so I didn't particularly expect to have scenes where I was watching netflix with Kaidan.

    Right, that is pretty true (been a few years for me, too). But I think that's kind of the point? They could've put the sex anywhere they wanted. Instead they chose to insert the sex during the climax (heheheh), so it felt like that was the end/victory thing.

    I would much prefer it if you got to watch Netflix afterwards, even in the same scene as the sex (though later stuff would be nice too).

    So I can imagine that for liara you could have sex whenever, so choosing the end felt arbitrary. I believe that with Kaiden you explicitly discuss that you'd like to, but given that you are his commanding officer, you are not going to right now. So it makes sense that you wait until it gets really desperate and you figure you'll probably die anyway.
    But of course, the way that in dragon age: inquisition you have sex maybe at the midway point and then spend the rest of the game hanging out, and your girlfriend bakes you cookies and whatnot...that was much nicer!

    This is one of the things I'd really like to see more in RPGs, relationships that follow different paths

    Bioware pretty much always, with some variation, goes like: okay Agree with Character 8 times to start romance, agree 12 times for kissing, agree with them 15 times and get to sex them before the end of the game as a reward.

    Like the sex isn't so much part of a story about an evolving relationship between two characters, it's just a reward for the player. It's just juvenile.

    DA:I was a bitter cleverer about at least mixing up the pacing of that formula, but like especially for most of the female characters it was still "just keep saying with what she wants to hear to eventually get sexytime."

    We're currently dealing with technological and budget limitations to a great extent.

    Though, it's not clear exactly how or what you would improve.

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    milski wrote: »
    Trace wrote: »
    Ahem.

    Seven year old talked back to me tonight.

    I told him no dinner and then made his favorite for -everyone- else.

    I burnt/baked a potato for him and told him that was his dinner.

    Now obviously I didn't make him eat the burnt to a crisp potato but boy have I found the ultimate problem solving method

    at least until he's old enough to make his own dinner

    I'm going to say that without context as to what "talked back" meant, denying your kid food while specifically making his favorite for others to torture him sounds like an extreme overreaction.
    I thought the whole point of parenthood is messing with your kids' heads. What's the point, otherwise? :D

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
This discussion has been closed.