I hate fighting the unbidden with a passion. I'm trying to be a tallish hivemind not using sectors, expanding as I increase core systems and getting income from tributaries around me. Once midgame hits I basically control ~1/3rd of the galaxy with my own territory and my tributaries. The other two major powers are a giant federation that owns the southern part of the galaxy, and a sole empire that controls large parts of the western galaxy.
The unbidden pop up as far away from me as possible, just south of the empire controlling the western end of the galaxy. The Unbidden proceed to absolutely destroy them, leaving them with a few scattered systems and dreams of former glory. The conservationist fallen empire close to that region decides that this is a good time to wake up, which basically saves us all. While the unbidden slowly push the fallen empire back I manage to cobble together a decent fleet to start cleaning up. My first attempt goes well, I kill a few fleets and clean up all the dimensional anchors. But once I hit the main portal I get zerged down by 7 50-90k fleets, and I have to retreat.
Rebuilding the fleet is incredibly slow due to my low mineral income, although feeding my massive energy profits to an enclave lets me keep 2-4 starports producing at least. In the meantime the unbidden are not doing much at all, by the time I had my fleet up and running again they only had 2 dimensional anchors. I proceed to demolish these and once again dive the portal. At the portal itself I run into 2 fleets around 50k, which I destroy with only light corvette losses. Then 7 more fleets jump in once again, and force me to retreat before killing the damn thing. I guess I will be picking up defender of the galaxy for the next attempt, once my fleet comes back from the emergency warp escape.
Every damn time I go for that portal they seem to have all their fleets within jump range, it's boring and annoying. And the giant federation down south is just sitting there, not doing anything. Not even trying to send fleets to pick off the unbidden as they harass the fallen empire.
While the prethoryn are way more annoying to clean up, at least you can break their back fairly reliably. The Unbidden just seem to conjure fleets out of nowhere, and there is always more of them.
Well, I'm at the point where I'm pretty much done with my current game. I started a congo line of frontier outposts to create an expansion backyard for later use and one of the FEs took offence that I was plopping my fence right next to their lawn. So they yelled at me to get off. In return, I mooned them and blew raspberries and then threw eggs at their door every month, set flaming bags of dog poop on their doorstep and made a point to play loud music all night on the weekends until they had enough and charged at me. Where their 30k fleets got dog piled by three of my fleets each weighing in at 60k strength.
Their clustered defense platforms were actually the things that did the most damage to my fleets but after some good ol' fashioned bombing and invading, I'm the owner of five formerly Fallen Empire worlds and all my science ships ran over to hoover up all the debris so no one else could get at them. The second FE decided now was a good time to wake up because holy crap, their arch nemesis bit the dust to some youngling upstart so now is the time to get serious.
Their problem: I still have all four fleets of now 70k fleet strength. And they're all parked outside their borders. Unless the awakening event spawned a huge ass pile of ships, they're still only going to have ~60k fleet strength which is less than a quarter of my offensive fleets.
And that's not to mention the state of the rest of the galaxy. There is one federation, of whom its members may equal the battle strength of one of my fleets. Then there's three more empires who I brutally assaulted to the point where a pissy 1k pirate fleet could torment them as I destroyed all their spaceports, bombed every planet to rubble killing a good quarter of their pops as collateral damage and hunted down every single one of their mining/research stations. Gods, no wonder why they hate me. And then the assorted other empires who could probably challenge one other fleet combined. Basically, I have more than 50% of the entire galaxy's fleet strength, without counting my vassals.
So yes, functionally, the game is over. I could spit out a new fleet in about a year with my manufacturing and economic power, I'm currently spamming habitats and reforming my economy to be even more powerful and nothing can possibly stand against my fleet power
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Forgive my ignorance, as I've mentioned I'm really new to 4x games. When we talk about "tall" vs. "wide", what does that mean exactly. I have taken this to mean that a "wide" empire spreads out, lots of expansion, lots of connection with other species, etc., while a "tall" empire focuses on staying centralized to acquire power.
In Stellaris' case, I honestly thought we were just talking X and Y. Not only is the galaxy map on a 2D surface (with small, purely cosmetic variations), you can't permanently rotate it (without it snapping back). Hell, planets and moons don't even move in orbits--everything is frozen in place, since if one thing moved, everything would have to.
For all the games' strengths, it's basically just a tiny (but still large) galaxy drawn on a place mat. The alternative would take a lot of work on Paradox' part.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
In Stellaris' case, I honestly thought we were just talking X and Y. Not only is the galaxy map on a 2D surface (with small, purely cosmetic variations), you can't permanently rotate it (without it snapping back). Hell, planets and moons don't even move in orbits--everything is frozen in place, since if one thing moved, everything would have to.
For all the games' strengths, it's basically just a tiny (but still large) galaxy drawn on a place mat. The alternative would take a lot of work on Paradox' part.
Imagine a strategy game built on Elite Dangerous's Stellar Forge galaxy. I think the scale would just be too much to handle. Space is so big the idea of fighting over it is probably beyond stupid.
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That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Going wide is a much easier path to victory, generally speaking. Tall empires can focus on habitats and the like, but that's more a mid-to-late game addition. Having fewer colonies makes it easier to get the Unity bonuses, so you can get the 10% research boost and possibly get a boost up that way. Or bully neighbours in to tributaries/vassals and go wide without going wide.
One of the more persistent criticisms of Stellaris has been that tall is a less valid strategy than wide, though.
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Going wide right now is in general *better*. However you can still compete as your research costs wont be as high, meaning you'll be more technically advanced than most empires (this really only helps early-mid game until you get to the repeatable techs in my experience). Utopia also let's you build Habitats and take ascension perks that increase your naval capacity. And yes, a tall empire likely focuses on diplomatic ties, primarily vassals, though I have a federation going with half the galaxy in my current game.
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
They are still working on it but the idea is that with traditions and tech cost going up as you expand and having longer borders it would balance out a compact empire with lots of friends.
It's not there of course but that's the idea.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So I cant do ironman without an internet connection?
It's pretty funny how things shift and change over the course of a game. Early on I was prepping to settle on just a gorgeous desert planet, the system it was in being linked to the inner arm of the galaxy via hyperlane making it super well positioned strategically. Then, about a month before I get my colony ship to head up there, I see it being claimed by the people who live just Galactic North of me. I was pissed, but this was early on and they were an advanced start empire and so i'd stand no chance, plus they are xenophilic pacifists who give 95% trade deals and i've been benefiting a lot buying minerals off them for peanuts. So I shrug and plop down a frontier outpost nearby so at least they won't come any further south and also I keep my linkway to the outer arm accessible since that's my only path to my outer rim colonies.
Fast forward a few decades, we meet more people and some are nice and some are jerks, previously mentioned Democratic Crusaders among the bunch. One of these new empires is pissed at me because my science vessel was surveying in a system that, mid-survey, went into their territory via border expansion. This is then exacerbated by the Democratic Crusaders rivaling me, lowering their opinion even more because they are on friendly terms with each other. So i'm looking at a potential two front war with empires that I wouldn't be able to take even if it was one-on-one.
Except.
That desert planet that isn't mine, that is on the hyperlane path connecting the inner and middle arms. The only way for the science haters to get to me. Everyone loves the xenophiles but they love me the most, and everyone knows a war with me will quickly bring them in to defend me. That wouldn't matter much if they were locked off further north, but their forward expansion and their system being the potential front line makes them very capable of supporting.
So it's a cold war, with me and the science haters glaring at each other over the empty void. Which is beneficial for me because every bit of time that passes i'm building up my infrastructure more, adding more to my already crazy unity income, and researching crazier and crazier mind-tech.
I didn't get a system I wanted and now decades later it's the only reason i'm still alive.
Spiral galaxies can be rather unfair for hyperlanes. I once had a bordering fallen empire declare on me, unfortunately they were on a different arm and had no way to reach my empire. I would just pop in with my fleet, wreck some of their ships then escape before they could destroy my navy. Alternated with science ships to steal the tachyon lance research. That was a successful war it has to be said.
In my most recent game (as fairly diplomatic mechanists) during the late stages I decided that the Holy Guardian Fallen Empire next to me had to go. I was a bit overconfident, and ended up fighting a very bloody, protracted war before they finally surrendered ceding to me all their rather nice Gaia worlds. Unfortunately, during these very closing stages of the war with minimal mineral reserves, the Unbidden made their entry.
What was particularly unfortunate was that they made their entry on the very edge of old fallen empire borders. My battered fleet managed to beat back a few of the smaller fleets before being overwhelmed and destroyed almost to a ship. The victorious Unbidden ripped through the newly conquered worlds, leaving behind the cleansed Gaia worlds. After removing my recent gains they started upon my original planets, with my fleet still desperately being rebuilt. This rebuilding of the fleet had to be halted in a desperate bid to prevent the loss of an important agricultural world. Acquisition of the vast holy planets had drained my food reserves and I had a sole world purely dedicated to producing the empire's food. My fleet was victorious, preventing disaster, but was near ruined.
To drive back the Unbidden I constructed a pure battleship fleet armed with only XL and L kinetic weapons. Each ship built only when enough minerals came in or I was able to sell credits to the merchants. Finally I had built up the fleet strength and I have to say, the Unbidden were no match for my forces. The battleships ripped through the Unbidden, with the enemy fleets decimated often before they even got close. The galaxy was saved!
In a way it ended up working out quite well. I lost three (or maybe four?) worlds of my original empire and all of the newly conquered worlds of the fallen empire. However, the citizens of the Fallen empire had hated me, and I was able to recolonise with the various species of my empire.
My last game was a hyperlane-only game in a spiral galaxy. It's a pretty fun way to play if everyone has the same limitations! And unfortunately that's ruined by jump drives in the mid/late game :-/
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Thanks everyone for humoring my 4x noobery.
This game has me pretty bad. Makes me wonder what other great 4x games I've missed. But this seems like a good entry to my first. It definitely has some rough edges--particularly, the time post-early game, pre-crisis feels kinda boring unless you're looking for trouble.
My last game was a hyperlane-only game in a spiral galaxy. It's a pretty fun way to play if everyone has the same limitations! And unfortunately that's ruined by jump drives in the mid/late game :-/
Yeah I wish there was a way to prevent jump drives from being available. Maybe a mod.
I really, really enjoy the topography of a hyperlane-only galaxy and how there are actually choke points and flanks and etc. Makes war more interesting and more challenging.
So in my current game I have an army of subject empires. I am basically at the ability to beat up fallen empires. My fleet is at 54k and only using half my capacity. Basically I am huge and just vassalizing folks over and over again.
I am figuring though the FEs are going to awaken in a bit, can they strip my vassals with their damn war in heaven?
So in my current game I have an army of subject empires. I am basically at the ability to beat up fallen empires. My fleet is at 54k and only using half my capacity. Basically I am huge and just vassalizing folks over and over again.
I am figuring though the FEs are going to awaken in a bit, can they strip my vassals with their damn war in heaven?
I think only if you sign up. I didn't understand what I was clicking on, and suddenly all my vassals were peers. A trillion screeching voices deigning to talk over us? Disgusting. So I reloaded an autosave, noted my vassals didn't sign without me, and then I gave our misguided, and understandably lonely friends the true unity they sought. All are welcome in The Consciousness. Some are just more ready than others.
(My favorite response from declaring war on a ally too large to vassalize: "But... why??". I wish you could respond:
Because you are ready. Shed no tears but those of joy, for your day of salvation has come.)
Edit: Actually, I'm not sure that was comparable to War in Heaven. We'd already wiped the other FE, and I still got the Unbidden. Could have have standard behavior for the collector AE to demand fealty upon awakening.
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Going wide isn't entirely conductive to research. There will eventually be a point where new worlds are a net loss to how fast you research technologies, and space-based research (which wide empires usually have a lot of) will ironically accelerate you to that point.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Going wide isn't entirely conductive to research. There will eventually be a point where new worlds are a net loss to how fast you research technologies, and space-based research (which wide empires usually have a lot of) will ironically accelerate you to that point.
Research speed has an inverse relationship with pop, right? Makes sense that things slow down as you get humongous.
But I still don't understand how tall empires can research quickly. If your territory is limited, how do you building mining and research stations? And planets of course only have so many blocks.
That's about it, yes. A tall empire focuses on a few systems/planets and builds them up, a wide empire spreads out to cover more territory.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Going wide isn't entirely conductive to research. There will eventually be a point where new worlds are a net loss to how fast you research technologies, and space-based research (which wide empires usually have a lot of) will ironically accelerate you to that point.
Yeah, I'm going to try tall next, but the fact habitats still incur a +22% penalty (1 "planet", 12 pops) seems like it's not going to yield the benefits I'd like. I'm guessing I'll need to find a few huge planets, then cozy up to a patron as a vassal/protectorate to capitalize on it. Minimize energy production (no fleets) and food, focus on research and unity. Maybe go harder at Unity than research from the start.
Edit: Hell, maybe trade for food and live on the raggedy edge of starvation.
The research penalty for going wide is never a concern for me.
Going wide makes up the difference in research speed by giving you the raw economic might to overwhelm a small research focused empire and reverse engineer their shiny toys.
You may not be cutting edge compared to the galaxy's most advanced, but if you're using your war machine to supplement your research labs then you're never very far behind the tech leaders.
It's like "oh Germany, that's an impressive few squadrons Me262's that you have there. Quite a marvel of engineering prowess. How well do they stack up against a few thousand Mustangs? Thanks for the jet engines."
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
So am I alone in thinking that machinist is overpowered for a single trait? It just fuels your early expansion like no other. All the benefits of slavery but none of the social drawbacks, a huge boost to pop growth (start with a higher food surplus AND you can convert energy into population), and hey a free tech thrown in for good measure. In a game where getting a good early snowball going is of utmost importance it's just sooooooooooo valuable.
Similarly efficient bureaucracy is almost required for any non-pacifist start. Like I don't terribly mind sectors and I'm ok offloading the micro and paying with inefficiency but 3 systems is just too early to start accepting the loss. I'd feel way less pressured to take EB if we had even 1 more base core system.
That tile blocker perk is completely ridiculous. Sure, make a bunch of research options obsolete as well as one of the few reasons to have a governor, combined with the action now costing zero energy. At a time when there aren't many other ascension perks available to choose instead.
I get a new colony set up, click about 15 times, and then after a few months every single tile is available to work.
I have never seen a game that pulled off hamstringing infininte sprawl as the best strategy. the only ways that seem to work is hard capping the number of places to expand to- planet habitability in stellaris, region size in endless legend
How does one keep their influence on the rise when they need to make larger amounts of Outposts? Even when I have close to 10 factions, the majority pretty happy, I still don't have enough influence to have more than 3 or 4 outposts.
You shouldn't be expanding with outposts unless you have no other alternative. Settle colonies instead. Retire your old outposts when your colonies encapsulate them.
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
How does one keep their influence on the rise when they need to make larger amounts of Outposts? Even when I have close to 10 factions, the majority pretty happy, I still don't have enough influence to have more than 3 or 4 outposts.
3 or 4 is a lot actually. I think a democracy that regularly fulfills the mandate could swing quite a few but of course you don't get to know your geography when you're deciding on a government authority.
most games I build 0 frontier outposts. they cost so fucking much I have no idea what the purpose is unless you desperately need a strategic resource with no other alternatives
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
So is it just governors/planetary modifiers?
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
How does one keep their influence on the rise when they need to make larger amounts of Outposts? Even when I have close to 10 factions, the majority pretty happy, I still don't have enough influence to have more than 3 or 4 outposts.
I learned this the hard way. In one of my first games I expanded with outposts (thinking that was how you amassed a lot of territory). My influence tanked and I couldn't get any leaders I needed.
Like others said, just expand with planets/conquest/vassalization. There's actually not much reason to rush to a united territory.
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
So is it just governors/planetary modifiers?
You can park a science ship in orbit to boost research points gained by a bunch (but this is probably less impressive than the perk that gives you free science points for scanning a planet). There's also Observatories which boost science production, and only needing to run 1 edict instead of multiple can save you influence better used elsewhere.
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
So is it just governors/planetary modifiers?
Having a few focused worlds prioritized for a certain resource can help maximize the bonus from planetary edicts. In most cases you want to respect the native resources, but I like having one or two size 25's specialized for specific resources.
Most games I have more than enough food stacking up without even really trying. And a few times I have found inhospitable 25-slot planets that I have settled with nothing but robots and made all mining buildings.
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
So is it just governors/planetary modifiers?
Having a few focused worlds prioritized for a certain resource can help maximize the bonus from planetary edicts. In most cases you want to respect the native resources, but I like having one or two size 25's specialized for specific resources.
Gene modding really pairs well with specialty worlds since you do it per planet. If all your tiles don't produce minerals, then you're not capitalizing on the full potential benefit of your (Very) Strong + Industrious traits.
Most games I have more than enough food stacking up without even really trying. And a few times I have found inhospitable 25-slot planets that I have settled with nothing but robots and made all mining buildings.
I wish you could toggle resources off in the "balanced" sector AI. Food is abundant early-mid game, Power becomes unnecessary mid-late game. (Or have three settings, none, net 0, surplus)
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
I think I am going to start a new game tonight. The game I have been working on has gotten kinda meh, mostly because I was using it as a learning experience. I absorbed some alien races as slave races early on, when I think the optimum thing for the kind of empire I was going for would have been to just purge them.
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
Unless I am misreading things, those +% buildings are a planetwide boost. Yeah they don't produce as much of the resource as a dedicated mine, but they make all your mines on the planet mine better. Which adds up if you stack a 25tile world with the things.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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The unbidden pop up as far away from me as possible, just south of the empire controlling the western end of the galaxy. The Unbidden proceed to absolutely destroy them, leaving them with a few scattered systems and dreams of former glory. The conservationist fallen empire close to that region decides that this is a good time to wake up, which basically saves us all. While the unbidden slowly push the fallen empire back I manage to cobble together a decent fleet to start cleaning up. My first attempt goes well, I kill a few fleets and clean up all the dimensional anchors. But once I hit the main portal I get zerged down by 7 50-90k fleets, and I have to retreat.
Rebuilding the fleet is incredibly slow due to my low mineral income, although feeding my massive energy profits to an enclave lets me keep 2-4 starports producing at least. In the meantime the unbidden are not doing much at all, by the time I had my fleet up and running again they only had 2 dimensional anchors. I proceed to demolish these and once again dive the portal. At the portal itself I run into 2 fleets around 50k, which I destroy with only light corvette losses. Then 7 more fleets jump in once again, and force me to retreat before killing the damn thing. I guess I will be picking up defender of the galaxy for the next attempt, once my fleet comes back from the emergency warp escape.
Every damn time I go for that portal they seem to have all their fleets within jump range, it's boring and annoying. And the giant federation down south is just sitting there, not doing anything. Not even trying to send fleets to pick off the unbidden as they harass the fallen empire.
While the prethoryn are way more annoying to clean up, at least you can break their back fairly reliably. The Unbidden just seem to conjure fleets out of nowhere, and there is always more of them.
Their clustered defense platforms were actually the things that did the most damage to my fleets but after some good ol' fashioned bombing and invading, I'm the owner of five formerly Fallen Empire worlds and all my science ships ran over to hoover up all the debris so no one else could get at them. The second FE decided now was a good time to wake up because holy crap, their arch nemesis bit the dust to some youngling upstart so now is the time to get serious.
Their problem: I still have all four fleets of now 70k fleet strength. And they're all parked outside their borders. Unless the awakening event spawned a huge ass pile of ships, they're still only going to have ~60k fleet strength which is less than a quarter of my offensive fleets.
And that's not to mention the state of the rest of the galaxy. There is one federation, of whom its members may equal the battle strength of one of my fleets. Then there's three more empires who I brutally assaulted to the point where a pissy 1k pirate fleet could torment them as I destroyed all their spaceports, bombed every planet to rubble killing a good quarter of their pops as collateral damage and hunted down every single one of their mining/research stations. Gods, no wonder why they hate me. And then the assorted other empires who could probably challenge one other fleet combined. Basically, I have more than 50% of the entire galaxy's fleet strength, without counting my vassals.
So yes, functionally, the game is over. I could spit out a new fleet in about a year with my manufacturing and economic power, I'm currently spamming habitats and reforming my economy to be even more powerful and nothing can possibly stand against my fleet power
Is there more to it than that?
For all the games' strengths, it's basically just a tiny (but still large) galaxy drawn on a place mat. The alternative would take a lot of work on Paradox' part.
In Stellaris, what do tall empires do to compete? It seems like going wide will always be better. Are you going tall if you form a lot of diplomatic ties (federations/vassals/etc.). How can you compete on resource generation/research without spreading out?
Imagine a strategy game built on Elite Dangerous's Stellar Forge galaxy. I think the scale would just be too much to handle. Space is so big the idea of fighting over it is probably beyond stupid.
Going wide is a much easier path to victory, generally speaking. Tall empires can focus on habitats and the like, but that's more a mid-to-late game addition. Having fewer colonies makes it easier to get the Unity bonuses, so you can get the 10% research boost and possibly get a boost up that way. Or bully neighbours in to tributaries/vassals and go wide without going wide.
One of the more persistent criticisms of Stellaris has been that tall is a less valid strategy than wide, though.
Going wide right now is in general *better*. However you can still compete as your research costs wont be as high, meaning you'll be more technically advanced than most empires (this really only helps early-mid game until you get to the repeatable techs in my experience). Utopia also let's you build Habitats and take ascension perks that increase your naval capacity. And yes, a tall empire likely focuses on diplomatic ties, primarily vassals, though I have a federation going with half the galaxy in my current game.
Steam: CavilatRest
They are still working on it but the idea is that with traditions and tech cost going up as you expand and having longer borders it would balance out a compact empire with lots of friends.
It's not there of course but that's the idea.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Spiral galaxies can be rather unfair for hyperlanes. I once had a bordering fallen empire declare on me, unfortunately they were on a different arm and had no way to reach my empire. I would just pop in with my fleet, wreck some of their ships then escape before they could destroy my navy. Alternated with science ships to steal the tachyon lance research. That was a successful war it has to be said.
In my most recent game (as fairly diplomatic mechanists) during the late stages I decided that the Holy Guardian Fallen Empire next to me had to go. I was a bit overconfident, and ended up fighting a very bloody, protracted war before they finally surrendered ceding to me all their rather nice Gaia worlds. Unfortunately, during these very closing stages of the war with minimal mineral reserves, the Unbidden made their entry.
What was particularly unfortunate was that they made their entry on the very edge of old fallen empire borders. My battered fleet managed to beat back a few of the smaller fleets before being overwhelmed and destroyed almost to a ship. The victorious Unbidden ripped through the newly conquered worlds, leaving behind the cleansed Gaia worlds. After removing my recent gains they started upon my original planets, with my fleet still desperately being rebuilt. This rebuilding of the fleet had to be halted in a desperate bid to prevent the loss of an important agricultural world. Acquisition of the vast holy planets had drained my food reserves and I had a sole world purely dedicated to producing the empire's food. My fleet was victorious, preventing disaster, but was near ruined.
To drive back the Unbidden I constructed a pure battleship fleet armed with only XL and L kinetic weapons. Each ship built only when enough minerals came in or I was able to sell credits to the merchants. Finally I had built up the fleet strength and I have to say, the Unbidden were no match for my forces. The battleships ripped through the Unbidden, with the enemy fleets decimated often before they even got close. The galaxy was saved!
In a way it ended up working out quite well. I lost three (or maybe four?) worlds of my original empire and all of the newly conquered worlds of the fallen empire. However, the citizens of the Fallen empire had hated me, and I was able to recolonise with the various species of my empire.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
This game has me pretty bad. Makes me wonder what other great 4x games I've missed. But this seems like a good entry to my first. It definitely has some rough edges--particularly, the time post-early game, pre-crisis feels kinda boring unless you're looking for trouble.
But damn! I do like this game a lot.
Yeah I wish there was a way to prevent jump drives from being available. Maybe a mod.
I really, really enjoy the topography of a hyperlane-only galaxy and how there are actually choke points and flanks and etc. Makes war more interesting and more challenging.
I love my humans with Spirtualist, fanatic Pacifist, Agarian Ideal, Effecitent Bureaucracy, and Adaptable.
I am figuring though the FEs are going to awaken in a bit, can they strip my vassals with their damn war in heaven?
I think only if you sign up. I didn't understand what I was clicking on, and suddenly all my vassals were peers. A trillion screeching voices deigning to talk over us? Disgusting. So I reloaded an autosave, noted my vassals didn't sign without me, and then I gave our misguided, and understandably lonely friends the true unity they sought. All are welcome in The Consciousness. Some are just more ready than others.
(My favorite response from declaring war on a ally too large to vassalize: "But... why??". I wish you could respond:
Because you are ready. Shed no tears but those of joy, for your day of salvation has come.)
Edit: Actually, I'm not sure that was comparable to War in Heaven. We'd already wiped the other FE, and I still got the Unbidden. Could have have standard behavior for the collector AE to demand fealty upon awakening.
Going wide isn't entirely conductive to research. There will eventually be a point where new worlds are a net loss to how fast you research technologies, and space-based research (which wide empires usually have a lot of) will ironically accelerate you to that point.
Research speed has an inverse relationship with pop, right? Makes sense that things slow down as you get humongous.
But I still don't understand how tall empires can research quickly. If your territory is limited, how do you building mining and research stations? And planets of course only have so many blocks.
Yeah, I'm going to try tall next, but the fact habitats still incur a +22% penalty (1 "planet", 12 pops) seems like it's not going to yield the benefits I'd like. I'm guessing I'll need to find a few huge planets, then cozy up to a patron as a vassal/protectorate to capitalize on it. Minimize energy production (no fleets) and food, focus on research and unity. Maybe go harder at Unity than research from the start.
Edit: Hell, maybe trade for food and live on the raggedy edge of starvation.
Going wide makes up the difference in research speed by giving you the raw economic might to overwhelm a small research focused empire and reverse engineer their shiny toys.
You may not be cutting edge compared to the galaxy's most advanced, but if you're using your war machine to supplement your research labs then you're never very far behind the tech leaders.
It's like "oh Germany, that's an impressive few squadrons Me262's that you have there. Quite a marvel of engineering prowess. How well do they stack up against a few thousand Mustangs? Thanks for the jet engines."
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I think I may make a more open type of race this time around.
I also think it makes more sense to just toss out the naturals on planets and just stack planets to whatever kind of production you need. Having 'power planets' or 'mine planets' has proved a lot more effective than splitting the difference and trying to stack the naturals. I had a 25-slot planet full of minerals and populated with robots and it despite not matching the naturals it was a massive net gain across the board.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Similarly efficient bureaucracy is almost required for any non-pacifist start. Like I don't terribly mind sectors and I'm ok offloading the micro and paying with inefficiency but 3 systems is just too early to start accepting the loss. I'd feel way less pressured to take EB if we had even 1 more base core system.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I get a new colony set up, click about 15 times, and then after a few months every single tile is available to work.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
IMO you don't generally want to ignore natural production of 2 or higher, especially research, so even when I'm trying for a specialized world I'll usually end up with at least a couple tiles of other buildings. Also keep in mind that you may want to spin a planet off into a sector at some point and they will want to be self sufficient in power and minerals.
3 or 4 is a lot actually. I think a democracy that regularly fulfills the mandate could swing quite a few but of course you don't get to know your geography when you're deciding on a government authority.
What reasons are there to specialize planets in this game? There are a couple of +% production buildings, but an Energy Grid II produces the same flat amount of energy as a Power Plant IV (6) and a Mineral Processing Plant II produces just 1 mineral less than a Mining Network IV. Doesn't seem like the buildings themselves, then, make much of a difference.
So is it just governors/planetary modifiers?
I learned this the hard way. In one of my first games I expanded with outposts (thinking that was how you amassed a lot of territory). My influence tanked and I couldn't get any leaders I needed.
Like others said, just expand with planets/conquest/vassalization. There's actually not much reason to rush to a united territory.
You can park a science ship in orbit to boost research points gained by a bunch (but this is probably less impressive than the perk that gives you free science points for scanning a planet). There's also Observatories which boost science production, and only needing to run 1 edict instead of multiple can save you influence better used elsewhere.
Having a few focused worlds prioritized for a certain resource can help maximize the bonus from planetary edicts. In most cases you want to respect the native resources, but I like having one or two size 25's specialized for specific resources.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Gene modding really pairs well with specialty worlds since you do it per planet. If all your tiles don't produce minerals, then you're not capitalizing on the full potential benefit of your (Very) Strong + Industrious traits.
I wish you could toggle resources off in the "balanced" sector AI. Food is abundant early-mid game, Power becomes unnecessary mid-late game. (Or have three settings, none, net 0, surplus)
Warframe/Steam: NFyt