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[The Elder Scrolls Online] Nerf bats for everyone, except Khajiit :3a

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Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I've been tempted lately to give this game a shot though I don't know if I like the character progression system (as I understand it).

    So instead I'm doing some reading here and there about TES lore. If I'm reading this right, all human and elf races are invaders of Tamriel and the beastfolk are the original inhabitants?

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I've been tempted lately to give this game a shot though I don't know if I like the character progression system (as I understand it).

    So instead I'm doing some reading here and there about TES lore. If I'm reading this right, all human and elf races are invaders of Tamriel and the beastfolk are the original inhabitants?

    Probably! Maybe? IT IS A MYSTERY (though tbh cats may be from the moon. lizards are deffo from Tamriel, but their parents are from T H E V O I D)

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Henroid wrote: »
    I've been tempted lately to give this game a shot though I don't know if I like the character progression system (as I understand it).

    So instead I'm doing some reading here and there about TES lore. If I'm reading this right, all human and elf races are invaders of Tamriel and the beastfolk are the original inhabitants?

    Sort of?

    During the creation of the world, the aedra became bound up in Mundus, the greater ones became the divines, some of the lesser became the hist and the ancestors of man and mer(elves). These were the only intelligent beings that survived the creation of the world, but there were presentient ancestors of the khajit and argonians running around. The hist went to black marsh and also some of them invaded oblivion, the ancestors of men and mer split into two groups, one decided to settle in the sommerset isles and became elves (the high/dark/wood elf and orc splits came later), the other became nomads and settled other continents and became men. In the mean time, the host basically uplifted argonians and somehow the khajit started developing a society, the moon and bosmer might have been involved but it is not clear. The elves(mer) basically invaded and ruled tamriel for 2500yrs and split into their current subgroups, then two groups of men reinvaded, one group from the North that became the nords, bretons, and imperials, and one from the west that became the Redguards.

    Jealous Deva on
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Also there are dragons.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
    Henroid
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    I played in the free-ish week and figured I'd pick this up since it nominally doesn't have any monthly subscription.

    I read it was basically Morrowind, so I essentially recreated my only Morrowind character who actually beat the main story 15 years ago: A Nord, mostly shield and sword Soul Calibur Sophitia-alike (...despite the fact Nords get a 2H bonus). I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing but it feels a lot like playing Morrowind with improved graphics and a lack of constant ash clouds and cliff racers hounding you every step of the way.

    I also read it's pre-Skyrim. Reading just now, apparently it's even pre-3rd age. So pre-Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Apparently TES has gone KOTOR.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I played in the free-ish week and figured I'd pick this up since it nominally doesn't have any monthly subscription.

    I read it was basically Morrowind, so I essentially recreated my only Morrowind character who actually beat the main story 15 years ago: A Nord, mostly shield and sword Soul Calibur Sophitia-alike (...despite the fact Nords get a 2H bonus). I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing but it feels a lot like playing Morrowind with improved graphics and a lack of constant ash clouds and cliff racers hounding you every step of the way.

    I also read it's pre-Skyrim. Reading just now, apparently it's even pre-3rd age. So pre-Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Apparently TES has gone KOTOR.

    Yup, it's set in the Interregnum between the end of the Reman dynasty but well before the Septim rise to power.

    Basically an excuse for things to happen before it all gets wiped clean by the 3rd era.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
    Rchanen
  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    I played in the free-ish week and figured I'd pick this up since it nominally doesn't have any monthly subscription.

    I read it was basically Morrowind, so I essentially recreated my only Morrowind character who actually beat the main story 15 years ago: A Nord, mostly shield and sword Soul Calibur Sophitia-alike (...despite the fact Nords get a 2H bonus). I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing but it feels a lot like playing Morrowind with improved graphics and a lack of constant ash clouds and cliff racers hounding you every step of the way.

    I also read it's pre-Skyrim. Reading just now, apparently it's even pre-3rd age. So pre-Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Apparently TES has gone KOTOR.

    Yup, it's set in the Interregnum between the end of the Reman dynasty but well before the Septim rise to power.

    Basically an excuse for things to happen before it all gets wiped clean by the 3rd era.

    Or the next Dragon Break depending on how Bethesda feels about the lore.

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
    AxenSorcha RavenlockGrebnu
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.

    I absolutely love that the lore comes from in-universe historians, scholars and philosophers all with their own biases and such. It makes things interesting and somewhat easier to retcon I suppose.

    As far as I'm aware I don't think there is any "word of God" stuff in regards to TES lore.

  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    I mean, it's still happening during ESO, isn't it?

    You meet some Kothringi who used magic to survive it and stuff.

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Picked this up on ps4 because it's free to play on psplus right now. I absolutely don't have time for another game right now...but I like it! Combat is fun and i like the structure, or lack thereof. Seems to reward exploring. I made a high elf nightblade and made an elric clone focusing on the siphoning tree. Also, prettier than i thought it would be.

    I think it hooked me early on when a nearby npc got possessed by a god and started spouting prophecy with glowy lighhts and levitation. Cooooool.

    Never played a morrowind game before either. The critters are weird!

    soylenth on
    Arteen
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    My only real problem so far is that herbs seem to be super rare and there are so many crafting materials. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't even know where I can get recipes other than looting them. So the game tells me melons and apples are for making food, but I don't think I even have any Provision recipes for food. Only alcohol.

    Plus all the emeralds, rubies, diamonds and assorted minerals that you can't sell for any money but can take up your inventory so you can ...craft in different styles?


    Actual combat and exploration is neat. It does play quite a bit like voice-acted Morrowind otherwise. Most importantly: It has branching quests, which I don't think I've really seen in an MMO. Crafting/harvesting is a bit slow. Combat and exploration are fun but I wish there was better loot. The only merchant sellables I get are ...carapaces and daedra masks. Where are my sellable dwemer gears and fancy vases? Stealing stuff can't be my only avenue to good loot, can it?

    President Rex on
  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie Future world ruler Registered User regular
    My only real problem so far is that herbs seem to be super rare and there are so many crafting materials. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't even know where I can get recipes other than looting them. So the game tells me melons and apples are for making food, but I don't think I even have any Provision recipes for food. Only alcohol.

    Plus all the emeralds, rubies, diamonds and assorted minerals that you can't sell for any money but can take up your inventory so you can ...craft in different styles?


    Actual combat and exploration is neat. It does play quite a bit like voice-acted Morrowind otherwise. Most importantly: It has branching quests, which I don't think I've really seen in an MMO. Crafting/harvesting is a bit slow. Combat and exploration are fun but I wish there was better loot. The only merchant sellables I get are ...carapaces and daedra masks. Where are my sellable dwemer gears and fancy vases? Stealing stuff can't be my only avenue to good loot, can it?

    It pretty much is...

    Lucid_Seraph
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.

    Right, that can explain a lot.. orcs were a beast race back in arena but now are elves? Clearly was just a result of the other elves being racist and papering over their true history trying to exclude them, etc.

    Or in relation to ESO vs the previous lore, maybe the later emperors wanted to downplay the significance of the more independent alliances so they blamed a lot of war deaths on the flu.

    Lucid_Seraph
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    My only real problem so far is that herbs seem to be super rare and there are so many crafting materials. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't even know where I can get recipes other than looting them. So the game tells me melons and apples are for making food, but I don't think I even have any Provision recipes for food. Only alcohol.

    Plus all the emeralds, rubies, diamonds and assorted minerals that you can't sell for any money but can take up your inventory so you can ...craft in different styles?


    Actual combat and exploration is neat. It does play quite a bit like voice-acted Morrowind otherwise. Most importantly: It has branching quests, which I don't think I've really seen in an MMO. Crafting/harvesting is a bit slow. Combat and exploration are fun but I wish there was better loot. The only merchant sellables I get are ...carapaces and daedra masks. Where are my sellable dwemer gears and fancy vases? Stealing stuff can't be my only avenue to good loot, can it?

    It's not but selling items to other players can be pain. It's either bark WTS messages to the zone or find and join a trading guild that is paying for a trader npc at a decent location. It works for people dedicated enough to the game to have a steady supply of items to sell (and almost anything you can sell to other players has a market, just not always a good one) but is consistently one of the complaints people have about the game.
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.

    Right, that can explain a lot.. orcs were a beast race back in arena but now are elves? Clearly was just a result of the other elves being racist and papering over their true history trying to exclude them, etc.

    Or in relation to ESO vs the previous lore, maybe the later emperors wanted to downplay the significance of the more independent alliances so they blamed a lot of war deaths on the flu.

    I enjoy many of the orc npcs in ESO but if there's one lesson i took away from the Orsinium DLC and stories therein is that where one or two orcs are fine people they seem to get progressively dumber as a whole the more of them congregate together. The writers have managed to both create an interesting culture and society for orcs and justify it all going to shit and forgotten by the time Arena came around.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie Future world ruler Registered User regular
    An actual real auction house of some sort is my wildest dream for this game...

    Sorcha Ravenlock
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    An actual real auction house of some sort is my wildest dream for this game...

    As someone who got burned hard by the GW2 auction house but hates the lack of A N Y form of centralized ANYTHING in Warframe?

    Nope. ESO has the best of both worlds. Sorry. Meaning, all possible worlds suck, but at least in ESO, no single 1%er asshole controls the ENTIRE trade network, but you also don't have to haul your own ass going HALLO PLZ SOME MONIES 4 MIEN PIXELZ

    Lucid_Seraph on
    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    I'm assuming I should be finding a guild so I can more effectively buy and sell stuff then.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I'm assuming I should be finding a guild so I can more effectively buy and sell stuff then.

    Yeah. The ESO reddit has a sticked thread for guild recruitment on Fridays plus there's the official forums.

    A style motif page from a DLC can go for 3k to 20k if it's new DLC and in demand with many others falling in the 5-7k range. If you have DLC access, making sales minimums in a casual trade guild is usually pretty simple.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I've long wanted a system in which unaffiliated players could sell stuff on a Guild's market, but have to pay a tax that is set by the Guild and with tax revenue going to the Guild's coffers. There could be a hard cap to how high the tax can be.

    I feel like that would be a pretty solid compromise.

    Axen on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.
    So maybe the elves are right about Talos, that a human did not ascend to godhood.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.
    So maybe the elves are right about Talos, that a human did not ascend to godhood.

    Talos and Vivec/The Tribunal in particular did do some pretty crazy things and were quite powerful, whether that counts as being gods in the same sense as the Divines is open for discussion.

    They did seem to become powerful enough in the lore in both cases to have the power to alter reality/the past/etc to a limited extent, but because of the unreliability of the lore in Elder scrolls that could mean anything from having powers to literally reshape the past to just retconning all the history books.

    Elvenshae
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Sorcha Ravenlock
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

    The Lore about Faith giving power also hinted that the Aedra/Daedra only exist because people believe they exist.

    And the Aedra/Daedra are the way they are because people believe that’s the way they are.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

    The Lore about Faith giving power also hinted that the Aedra/Daedra only exist because people believe they exist.

    And the Aedra/Daedra are the way they are because people believe that’s the way they are.

    Sounds like Daedric propaganda to me

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I feel like too many Daedra have “murder” in their portfolio. Like ya’ll gotta have a meeting and sort that out because I’m constantly mixing ya’ll up for real.

    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.
    So maybe the elves are right about Talos, that a human did not ascend to godhood.

    Talos and Vivec/The Tribunal in particular did do some pretty crazy things and were quite powerful, whether that counts as being gods in the same sense as the Divines is open for discussion.

    They did seem to become powerful enough in the lore in both cases to have the power to alter reality/the past/etc to a limited extent, but because of the unreliability of the lore in Elder scrolls that could mean anything from having powers to literally reshape the past to just retconning all the history books.

    my headcanon about Vivec is that he believed that in godhood he'd be able to "fix" what happened to Nerevar and bring Nerevar back to life

    problem is that Nerevar's death is the incident which created his godhood, so while he could edit the past considerably, no matter what he did, Nerevar still had to die.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

    The Lore about Faith giving power also hinted that the Aedra/Daedra only exist because people believe they exist.

    And the Aedra/Daedra are the way they are because people believe that’s the way they are.

    Sounds like Daedric propaganda to me

    Hah!

    Actually I'm pretty sure it was a Daedra in Skyrim that straight up said if they don't have worshipers they'll basically "die" and that's why Daedra are a bit more proactive in the lives of Mortals. As opposed to the Aedra who don't really have to do anything because everyone already has complete faith in them.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

    The Lore about Faith giving power also hinted that the Aedra/Daedra only exist because people believe they exist.

    And the Aedra/Daedra are the way they are because people believe that’s the way they are.

    Sounds like Daedric propaganda to me

    Hah!

    Actually I'm pretty sure it was a Daedra in Skyrim that straight up said if they don't have worshipers they'll basically "die" and that's why Daedra are a bit more proactive in the lives of Mortals. As opposed to the Aedra who don't really have to do anything because everyone already has complete faith in them.

    Aedra were also almost completely wrapped up in the creation of the world, though, so they have to work through elements of the world (humans, elves, etc) rather than Daedra who can act somewhat independently. Thats why in oblivion Akatosh needed Martin to act as his avatar rather than just rolling up and Dragonating Mehrunes Dagon by himself.

    I would assume at the very least the daedric cults give them more power or influence in the world, though, otherwise why bother with the mythic dawn and organizations like that. So maybe without any belief Mehrunes Dagon dies, or maybe he just gets locked out of Mundus while all the other Daedra get juiced up from their cults, same difference from a players point of view. Jyggalag does seem to be able to act in shivering isles without much in the way of worshippers, for what its worth, but that may be a special circumstance.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    IIRC there are some things in the Lore that point towards Faith being a powerful force that makes the various dieties actual dieties.

    So if people believe Talos/Vivec/Tribunal/what-have-you are Gods then they are Gods.

    If people lose faith then the God in question could just disappear.

    Eh, maybe, but then most of the practical examples of gods in the universe have obvious external power sources either being aedra/daedra, having tapped into powerful artifacts or the heart of the world, or similar.

    Also most of the lore we have on the nature of godhood and achieving it is from Vivec, who is an unreliable source to say the least.

    The Lore about Faith giving power also hinted that the Aedra/Daedra only exist because people believe they exist.

    And the Aedra/Daedra are the way they are because people believe that’s the way they are.

    Sounds like Daedric propaganda to me

    Hah!

    Actually I'm pretty sure it was a Daedra in Skyrim that straight up said if they don't have worshipers they'll basically "die" and that's why Daedra are a bit more proactive in the lives of Mortals. As opposed to the Aedra who don't really have to do anything because everyone already has complete faith in them.

    Aedra were also almost completely wrapped up in the creation of the world, though, so they have to work through elements of the world (humans, elves, etc) rather than Daedra who can act somewhat independently. Thats why in oblivion Akatosh needed Martin to act as his avatar rather than just rolling up and Dragonating Mehrunes Dagon by himself.

    I would assume at the very least the daedric cults give them more power or influence in the world, though, otherwise why bother with the mythic dawn and organizations like that. So maybe without any belief Mehrunes Dagon dies, or maybe he just gets locked out of Mundus while all the other Daedra get juiced up from their cults, same difference from a players point of view. Jyggalag does seem to be able to act in shivering isles without much in the way of worshippers, for what its worth, but that may be a special circumstance.

    There's some vague agreement the Daedric Princes made in the 1st era to limit their direct actions in Mundus in exchange for something unknown to anyone but them and Sotha Sil. The exact details are very vague but it could mean they need followers to get a lot of things done.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Online also rewrites/retcons/outright erases a hefty portion of the stuff that was established in Arena-Oblivion as to the happenings specifically in the Second Era, so if you're wanting to know more about what's going on in Tamriel in the time of Online, if you want it to make any sense at all, only pay attention to stuff from Online.

    Otherwise you're going to have to square the circle of every single non-Argonian dying in Black Marsh from the Knahaten Flu and Argonians being persona-non-gratia EVERYWHERE because of aforementioned Knahaten Flu with them being allied with the Nords and Dunmer in a three-way war during the height of the disease.

    And that's just a recipe for headaches.

    Eh, tbh I think of it more like how IRL history works. There's large swaths of history that we don't know about, or have even gotten completely wrong, where historians for whatever reason will just write whatever bullshit. That's something I enjoy about The Elder Scrolls -- all the narrators are unreliable, so the lore can be a bit wiggly.

    Right, that can explain a lot.. orcs were a beast race back in arena but now are elves? Clearly was just a result of the other elves being racist and papering over their true history trying to exclude them, etc.

    Or in relation to ESO vs the previous lore, maybe the later emperors wanted to downplay the significance of the more independent alliances so they blamed a lot of war deaths on the flu.

    I swear I'll leave this as my last lore post, cause I've only ever played ESO vicariously:

    Orcs never were a "beast race", they just weren't playable until Morrowind. Arena didn't have much world-building at all, just the absolute basics for EVERYTHING, but in Daggerfall it was a major plot point that no, the Orcs were quite civilized, and were very much just trying to make sure they get their own little bit of Tamriel to call their own. Gortwog was of "royal blood" enough to use the Totem of Tiber Septim to make Numidium do what he wanted, and additionally assisted The Agent in soothing King Lysandus' restless spirit of VEEEENGEAAAANCE.

    Course he also was a clever, scheming bastard but that description could be applied to literally every character in Daggerfall.

    The separation of Man and Mer wasn't conceptualized until Morrowind anyway, but the groundwork for Orcs being more than just monsters goes a long, long way back.


    Meanwhile, it's kinda hard for me to wave off ESO's uh... interpretation of the animosity between Dunmer and Nords and Dunmer and Argonians into a major alliance, and the description of the Flu from being "Yeah entire races were entirely annihilated; the entirety of Hammerfell has a holiday where they literally don't leave their houses because of the shame they feel for not helping the last Kothringi" (By the way, one of the saddest things is how all those neat holidays in Daggerfall are never referenced later on) into something that is... around but not a 50% population wipe in everywhere but Black Marsh, where it's 100%.


    ...I really, really like Daggerfall, guys.

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    Elvenshae
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    The orcs in ESO feel a bit weird compared to Morrowind. They're like original Star Trek klingons versus Next Generation klingons.

    They basically look like all the mer and men except with lower jaw fangs and maybe a light greenish or yellowish tinge.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    The orcs in ESO feel a bit weird compared to Morrowind. They're like original Star Trek klingons versus Next Generation klingons.

    They basically look like all the mer and men except with lower jaw fangs and maybe a light greenish or yellowish tinge.

    ixbwUWD.jpg

    "...well?"
    "We do not discuss it with outsiders."

    MechMantisLucid_Seraph
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Owenashi wrote: »
    The orcs in ESO feel a bit weird compared to Morrowind. They're like original Star Trek klingons versus Next Generation klingons.

    They basically look like all the mer and men except with lower jaw fangs and maybe a light greenish or yellowish tinge.

    ixbwUWD.jpg

    "...well?"
    "We do not discuss it with outsiders."

    Thr orcs didn’t fare as well as everyone else in the depotatification after the oblivion crisis.

  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    I tried the Battlegrounds. It seems like a wide open Cyrodil with just NPCs in it. I'm not entirely sure what the game expects of me.

  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Cyrodil is a kinda open world siege pvp. If you're in there look at your map, you will see points in red, yellow, or blue. If they are under attack it tells you. You get siege weapons, and either defend your color points or go to enemy colored points and turn them into your color.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    Cyrodil is a kinda open world siege pvp. If you're in there look at your map, you will see points in red, yellow, or blue. If they are under attack it tells you. You get siege weapons, and either defend your color points or go to enemy colored points and turn them into your color.

    Is there any way to see where enemies or allies are? Or just sort of stumble on them/use the chat to try and for ma coherent group?

  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Like I said, when a point is under attack is shows you on the map. You can go to where your people are attacking, or where the enemy sides are attacking. If you don't see any combat then yes, you need to stumble on them or use chat.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
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