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The OTHER Election Discussion Thread
ElJeffe
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
"When they go low, we go high."
Eight years ago, a man named Barack Obama was elected president based on a pretty great philosophy. He channeled the collective good will and positivity of a nation into a movement premised on the idea that our collective light could outshine our collective darkness. Bad people exist and bad things happen, but we're stronger than that, and we're better than that, and if we work together we can keep the arrow of progress pointed in the right direction.
And in the last eight years, I like to think we've done a lot of things to make him proud. We have achieved equal marriage rights for millions of people on the back of the increasing realization, now held by a strong majority of Americans, that homosexuals should be able to marry just like the rest of us. We have largely repaired our relations with the world, and even with the Middle East, to an extent, based on the idea that we work best when we work together, and that nationality and religion and race and geography should not keep us apart. We accomplished these things because most of us are genuinely good people, not slaves to hatred and bile.
Last night was a worst-case scenario.
Not to mince words - we spent last night rolling ones, and here we are. Now that this eighteen month Charlie Brooker satire of an election has concluded, we find ourselves in a pretty dark place. Republicans, pretty soon, will control all three branches of government, and while the uncertainty surrounding what's next is pretty thick, I think it's safe to say that bad things will happen to good people.
But we need to remember that the Oval Office is not the Iron Throne, and Congress is not the Small Council. We are still a nation of laws, composed of states and counties and, most importantly, people. Those people who recognized that gay rights were a thing that needed to happen? They're still here. The millions who voted for Hillary Clinton and rejected the hate-vomit of Donald Trump? They're still here. The majority of us are good people. Racism is still a big problem in this country, but we are not all racists. Sexism is still a big problem, but we are not all sexists. Homophobia, Islamophobia, the whole deluge of myriad phobias that we saw on display at Trump's ever-present string of Two Minute Hate Fun Tyme Revues? That is not all of us. They are a minority. They outplayed us. Fuck if I know how. Fuck if they know how, either. But anyway, here we are.
So what now?
Now we capitalize on all those states and counties and people that I mentioned above. The national battle is over for now, and we lost, but there are a hundred thousand lesser battlefields upon which we can fight. Think local. Tackle your school boards, your city councils, your state legislatures. Offer your time and your money in ways that can improve the lives of the people around you. What happened last night was a setback, but it was not the literal end of the world. We have come back from civil war, from the brink of nuclear armageddon, from a national depression, and from global warfare twice. We'll come back from this. We'll lick our wounds, and then we'll go kick some ass.
There is another thread for discussion of this election. It will not be going anywhere. Right now, it's full of a lot of teeth-gnashing and screaming at the heavens, and that's cool. You guys do you.
This thread, though, offers an alternative. We talk about the election, we figure out what went wrong, and we figure out how to fix it. The two threads will exist in tandem, and each of you may determine in which one you'd like to post. Trump and his followers have gone as low as it's possible to go; now is the time for us to go higher than they thought us capable.
Eight years ago, a man named Barack Obama was elected president based on a pretty great philosophy. He channeled the collective good will and positivity of a nation into a movement premised on the idea that our collective light could outshine our collective darkness. Bad people exist and bad things happen, but we're stronger than that, and we're better than that, and if we work together we can keep the arrow of progress pointed in the right direction.
And in the last eight years, I like to think we've done a lot of things to make him proud. We have achieved equal marriage rights for millions of people on the back of the increasing realization, now held by a strong majority of Americans, that homosexuals should be able to marry just like the rest of us. We have largely repaired our relations with the world, and even with the Middle East, to an extent, based on the idea that we work best when we work together, and that nationality and religion and race and geography should not keep us apart. We accomplished these things because most of us are genuinely good people, not slaves to hatred and bile.
Last night was a worst-case scenario.
Not to mince words - we spent last night rolling ones, and here we are. Now that this eighteen month Charlie Brooker satire of an election has concluded, we find ourselves in a pretty dark place. Republicans, pretty soon, will control all three branches of government, and while the uncertainty surrounding what's next is pretty thick, I think it's safe to say that bad things will happen to good people.
But we need to remember that the Oval Office is not the Iron Throne, and Congress is not the Small Council. We are still a nation of laws, composed of states and counties and, most importantly, people. Those people who recognized that gay rights were a thing that needed to happen? They're still here. The millions who voted for Hillary Clinton and rejected the hate-vomit of Donald Trump? They're still here. The majority of us are good people. Racism is still a big problem in this country, but we are not all racists. Sexism is still a big problem, but we are not all sexists. Homophobia, Islamophobia, the whole deluge of myriad phobias that we saw on display at Trump's ever-present string of Two Minute Hate Fun Tyme Revues? That is not all of us. They are a minority. They outplayed us. Fuck if I know how. Fuck if they know how, either. But anyway, here we are.
So what now?
Now we capitalize on all those states and counties and people that I mentioned above. The national battle is over for now, and we lost, but there are a hundred thousand lesser battlefields upon which we can fight. Think local. Tackle your school boards, your city councils, your state legislatures. Offer your time and your money in ways that can improve the lives of the people around you. What happened last night was a setback, but it was not the literal end of the world. We have come back from civil war, from the brink of nuclear armageddon, from a national depression, and from global warfare twice. We'll come back from this. We'll lick our wounds, and then we'll go kick some ass.
There is another thread for discussion of this election. It will not be going anywhere. Right now, it's full of a lot of teeth-gnashing and screaming at the heavens, and that's cool. You guys do you.
This thread, though, offers an alternative. We talk about the election, we figure out what went wrong, and we figure out how to fix it. The two threads will exist in tandem, and each of you may determine in which one you'd like to post. Trump and his followers have gone as low as it's possible to go; now is the time for us to go higher than they thought us capable.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
+74
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
These two articles from the other thread are a good place to start - how the Democrats lost working America is highlighted in particular.
Moore accurately called the flipped states in the Midwest.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
If you've got skills, see if you can use them to help people somehow. In a general sense, but also in political terms specifically. It may not seem like the thing you know how to do is useful outside of where you normally do it, but you're probably wrong.
Learn how to politics. Not how to talk politics, but how to actually do it. Start local, volunteering if that's what's around, and figure out how the whole thing works.
Organize likeminded people in your community to help make things better. This could be anything from actual elections to crowdfunding an after school program to coordinating a volunteer tutor organization for local kids.
If you've got money, find someone who will put it to good use. Even if that means funding a losing candidate, that at least puts up some visible opposition to things that would otherwise go unchallenged.
Scream like a banshee about every first amendment issue you come across, because we're going to see a lot of them in the coming days. Bush gave us "freedom zones" to protest in, and Trump is going to be far worse than Bush.
There are many, many more things to be done as well. Just remember, if you give up we all lose. It is dark today (literally, it's raining here after being sunny and great yesterday, I hate it when the weather editorializes), but we can't let that make us give up. The people that voted in Obama and did all the good work for Clinton didn't go anywhere, we're still here. What we do now matters in a huge way.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
As a party we need to embrace some big, crazy (but in a good way) program that we can push as a core of our message. Something grandiose that we can't possibly pull off in a single term or administration, but which serves as a declaration of long-term and passionate intent. Guaranteed Basic Income, Federally-funded tech training for the entire workforce, etc. Clinton had debt free college, but that clearly wasn't big or audacious enough to get penetration.
We also need to understand that the media doesn't cover issues anymore. And alter our messaging accordingly.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Which means that Social Security, other entitlements, the Affordable Care Act and minority communities who deal with police/federal authorities on unfavorable terms are the biggest targets.
Here is my logic for each:
Social Security - Wall St is basically run by vampires and privatizing Social Security is a massive influx of guaranteed money that they can play around with, probably as they see fit. A higher dow - which is what we will get at least temporarily - will be an easy mask for any regressive labor decisions that effect your average person. Paul Ryan probably had to consult a doctor four hours after the election was called because of this possibility.
ACA/Medicare/Medicaid - Huge(r) corporate handouts incoming, Medicare part D on steroids. Medicare becomes much more expensive for taxpayers that do not use it but is mostly unaffected by those on it who do not also qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid potentially ripped away entirely, ditto for ACA but most likely replaced by a fig leaf that helps their constituency in some small token way.
Minority communities - the only consistent policy position Trump has held since entering public life is that people who step out of line need their skulls cracked and Giuliani is basically a kindred spirit in this regard. Between the whole law and order fiasco that is incoming and what is likely in the pipeline for Muslims I expect the ideas of "due process" and "unreasonable search and seizure" are the ones the new Supreme Court gets to take behind the woodshed first
The LGBT community - The hopeful part of me thinks that gay marriage is actually safe. Of all the awful things he said during the campaign his opposition to same sex marriage legitimately did come off as lip service at best. I do not think Pence has the swing in the administration to push it either, especially since public opinion is already north of 50% on favor and I doubt the LGBT community at large will be just letting that backslide in the years to come. Its a wedge issue they don't want us to have. That being said we are getting a regressive as fuck bathroom bill at some point I am almost sure of it.
Abortion - Again I'm banking on Pence being locked in a lot of coat rooms for the next four years, but I do not think we see an outright repeal of the federal statute or even the groundwork although I am not putting any money on that prediction. But I will put money on getting multiple pieces of "slut shaming" legislation that much like any "bathroom bill" are going to be borderline impossible to stop this time around - but I'm hoping that the courts are not the avenue the admin pushes to give their base red meat.
This is all guesswork of course and there is a hundred other ways they can "come after" us. Foreign policy almost demands its own thread based on what came out of Trumps mouth alone - but on the domestic side I think this is where we need to be ready to organize and stick up for people. Yes, we are going to get some god awful tax policy but quite frankly even some of our voters - the people we need to turn out in 2018/2020 are going to think that they're getting a good deal.
Maybe Trump wants a second term and will play things that way, maybe he wants to put his name on a bunch of government buildings and leave. Maybe the GOP tries to establish a three branch majority that lasts at least ten years or maybe they're about to nuke the filibuster and run loose with the gas and matches. Some of it we have to wait and see.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I wonder if traditional methods for canvassing & engaging voters are simply no longer viable. People do not respond to landline phone calls like they used to; increasingly, households do not even have such things. This cripples GOTV efforts.
It would explain why Trump's lack of a ground game until late in the season was not a liability, and why Clinton's exceptionally expansive ground game was of little help. It would also explain the large amount of polling error & uncertainty in the election.
I've been volunteering in local provincial politics for over a year now, and these are things I know we're talking about. Physical canvassing is a lot of man hours and sometimes impossible in high density areas due to soliciting policies; phone banking increasingly shows diminished returns; social media campaigns endure something of a cart & horse problem, because Twitter & Facebook are great for amplifying a message but terrible for building an audience or having a conversation.
I want something else that can be done to mobilize & engage allies, and/or change minds. I just have no clue what that 'something else' could be.
Coumo as well. I'm not fond of him but unless he gets caught in bridgegate, which has two months to go anywhere, he's going to be involved. He's like the next generations Hillary with connections and establishment.
Keeping him as far away from the nomination as possible is an absolute imperative.
Booker is already the bitter pill on that list, I can't really stomach Coumo as well.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Do people here have opinions on the climate mobilization (theclimatemobilization.org/)? I joined a couple months ago but didn't donate or do anything else.
I want to try therapy-by-way-of-doing-something-useful and see if it works.
Also, yes, please no Booker or Cuomo.
you gotta have a man in the party who's friends with wall street, you just gotta, it's a necessary evil
and since you do, it might as well be a likable, competent guy, which Booker is
but I don't want him in the white house; he's fine in the Senate
Ed2: Re-included
I remember thinking last night, before we knew that it would be moot, what if Detroit swung Michigan
If it was the butt of a few less jokes, if it wasn't just fucking abandoned to Dan Gilbert / Quicken Loans, could we have galvanized a resistance there?
We need a populist economic movement that hovers over our coalition that at least the bulk of our disparate identities can tie into. Something we can relate to someone living in the rust belt and Baltimore at the same time while also discussing things like police conduct and the future of latino immigrants in this country.
Also as an aside, gun control of lack thereof probably had very little to do with driving turnout this election but if the Democrats do not want to abandon it wholesale they need to really codify their ambitions. No taking what you can get, leave as little wiggle room as you possibly can for them to lie to voters about what you want. Write the bill in plain language and make it available next month, but we need to take this issue off the table. No one will believe us if we pretend that we're no longer interested so we should at least take the boogeyman away as much as possible.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Detroit usually does, but its population is shrinking so fast...
The problem with debt free college in particular is that it holds no appeal for people who never had to deal with student debt themselves, and who either don't plan to send their children to college or can easily afford it. Basically, it only appeals to the existing Democratic base.
In particular, we need a way to appeal to people who are trapped in areas with little economic opportunity. The current strategy seems to be "wait for them to die off". While it certainly has advantages over other solutions such as completely reengineering our economic base into something horribly inefficient or forcibly relocating poor people to cities, it still doesn't have much appeal to the people who are being affected by the policy. Shifting the strategy to "help your children to leave and probably never come back" helps a bit, but it still doesn't leave the remaining people very happy.
edit: The only real solutions I can think of to the problem involve either a massive network of intraplanetary wormholes or total immersion in virtual reality. Can anyone come up with anything better?
edit: Wait, climate change. Raise the water level enough that everyone is forced into a more reasonably-sized area. I think we can actually pull that one off, if we try and/or don't try.
I don't disagree but of all the names I put out I think he's the most ready for a bigger stage if it came down to it.
No set of consequences will deter our media from turning an election into a horserace, no one should have a notion otherwise now. Despite his enthusiastic supporters I do not think Sanders would have fared well with that reality either. Our next candidate has to be ready to stare into the abyss.
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I think I'm going to take a few months to recover. Maybe set a cut off date of the Super Bowl or my trip to NY in Feb. And then budget $100 a month towards down ballot candidates and groups I like. I used to give to OFA and DFA but personally they seem some combination of ineffective and up their own ass. I think I'd like to focus away from Massachusetts since its all safe here but I'm going to have to think about where the money will do the most good
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Regardless of the state of the Democratic party, the Republican party is worse. That they managed to squeak out a win against arguably the most hated woman in America doesn't mean they're all hunky dory, and I think a large chunk of those folks are ripe for the taking.
Eight years ago, Obama and the Dems peeled off Republicans like me. There are plenty of folks in there similarly appalled by what their party has become.
Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.
Yeah, it's getting me, too.
I knew we had to rebuild, but I figured we'd build down, and at least sort of be in charge while we did it. Turns out, we need to build back up (or, best case scenario, out from the middle) and we'll be doing so from the political sidelines.
Right now, there really isn't a Democratic party in any meaningful sense. There are Obama's team and Clinton's people, and then there's everyone else looking in. After this, I think it's safe to say that the Clintonites need to be pushed aside for the good of the party and the country. They've been dominating party politics for the last two and a half decades, and look where that's gotten us.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I'm personally in favor of abolishing the Second Amendment and completely banning guns. I'm willing to settle for no ownership restrictions whatsoever, but with heavy penalties for using them in crimes (and actually fully enforcing laws about what constitutes a crime) or injuring people with them negligently.
There are just so many more efficient things to fight over.
Easier to rebuild when you have political power. People can get impressive achievements, build institutional power, that kind of thing. Democrats have less real power than at any time since Lincoln was shot.
This. Not everyone can or should code. Someone has to do less intellectually stimulating and challenging or skillful jobs. Our economic policies should be at making the gap between those jobs smaller and providing a safety net to protect those who can't work. Free college stuff is great but it doesn't really address inequality, its a giveaway to a small subset of the population. That giveaway is likely socially beneficial but that's a different question.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
This is definitely part of the problem. Even when it's well meaning, this sort of proposal hugely misdiagnoses the problems young people face these days. A college education isn't a guarantee of anything anymore but debt. Removing that debt is something, but it's not a plan for long term prosperity. Millenials live in a very different world than their parents did at their age.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
At the very least we need to be fostering more state level operators that can produce results. Especially in otherwise red states.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Everyone can absolutely code. I also think everyone should, at least a little, to better understand how the world and technology works going forward. Especially as we move into those less intellectually stimulating jobs being more and more automated. We need people to manage the automation.
College is useful not just because of the cert you get to work at the end, but because of the life experiences and ability to meet and experience things outside of your own echo chamber. Not everyone needs to go to college for the degree but I think that experience is invaluable, however we can get it to people.
Without the money from the ACA, this is dead on arrival.
Yeah I agree with this. Sign a pledge to not propose any new gun control legislation* for ten years in exchange for universal background checks that 90% of the country supports anyway. The NRA will throw a fit but that's going to happen no matter what, and we know that this was the best we could hope for anyway.
*can still oppose shitty laws they propose!
Is it impossible? My personal experience and a quick google for stats both seem to suggest there is subtantial demand for certain degree requiring jobs, such as computer science. Getting more people out of the non-degree market will also reduce supply of unskilled labor and push wages up for those workers as well.
RomneyCare was dead on arrival?
Then we need to come up with our pitch. Our big idea, the thing that we can force the media to talk about instead of focusing on personality politics. Our "build the wall", basically. And make that part of the messaging and platform, top to bottom, local to President. Make it something the media has to talk about when they talk about Democrats or the Democratic Party. I'm talking about Universal Healthcare, Guaranteed Basic Income, $15 minimum wage, something like that. Aspirational and audacious, something that critics will have to explain their opposition to, however briefly.
There are so many things we need to do to become a real, viable party again. But these two things are where we should start.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
We'll be keeping ours but it will be weaker
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
If we are going to go high, the vision has to be grand. Let the policy wonks wonk, but don't run them as candidates. Learn from this DNC, there is plenty of time post election to come up with policy details, we need to be told what you want America to look like, because we're no longer arguing the details. The 90's are over. You can't just run the numbers, you have to argue. To fight. To plead your case, and be willing to take a hit for the country. We talked a lot about how much of a policy genius Clinton is, and I still agree with that. But her taking her turn cost us, and cost us dearly. Her unfavorables were high, and fixed. We need to be better, to be smarter, to not lecture but figure out how to reach those parts of America who feels, rightly or wrongly, that the current system isn't working for them, and sell them on a way forward. Because we couldn't just keep waiting for them to die off as a solution.
Liberalism failed this time, not due to its beliefs, but due to a lack of imagination and vision. We got hung up on the policy battles and lost the culture war.