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The OTHER Election Discussion Thread

ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
"When they go low, we go high."

Eight years ago, a man named Barack Obama was elected president based on a pretty great philosophy. He channeled the collective good will and positivity of a nation into a movement premised on the idea that our collective light could outshine our collective darkness. Bad people exist and bad things happen, but we're stronger than that, and we're better than that, and if we work together we can keep the arrow of progress pointed in the right direction.

And in the last eight years, I like to think we've done a lot of things to make him proud. We have achieved equal marriage rights for millions of people on the back of the increasing realization, now held by a strong majority of Americans, that homosexuals should be able to marry just like the rest of us. We have largely repaired our relations with the world, and even with the Middle East, to an extent, based on the idea that we work best when we work together, and that nationality and religion and race and geography should not keep us apart. We accomplished these things because most of us are genuinely good people, not slaves to hatred and bile.

Last night was a worst-case scenario.

Not to mince words - we spent last night rolling ones, and here we are. Now that this eighteen month Charlie Brooker satire of an election has concluded, we find ourselves in a pretty dark place. Republicans, pretty soon, will control all three branches of government, and while the uncertainty surrounding what's next is pretty thick, I think it's safe to say that bad things will happen to good people.

But we need to remember that the Oval Office is not the Iron Throne, and Congress is not the Small Council. We are still a nation of laws, composed of states and counties and, most importantly, people. Those people who recognized that gay rights were a thing that needed to happen? They're still here. The millions who voted for Hillary Clinton and rejected the hate-vomit of Donald Trump? They're still here. The majority of us are good people. Racism is still a big problem in this country, but we are not all racists. Sexism is still a big problem, but we are not all sexists. Homophobia, Islamophobia, the whole deluge of myriad phobias that we saw on display at Trump's ever-present string of Two Minute Hate Fun Tyme Revues? That is not all of us. They are a minority. They outplayed us. Fuck if I know how. Fuck if they know how, either. But anyway, here we are.

So what now?

Now we capitalize on all those states and counties and people that I mentioned above. The national battle is over for now, and we lost, but there are a hundred thousand lesser battlefields upon which we can fight. Think local. Tackle your school boards, your city councils, your state legislatures. Offer your time and your money in ways that can improve the lives of the people around you. What happened last night was a setback, but it was not the literal end of the world. We have come back from civil war, from the brink of nuclear armageddon, from a national depression, and from global warfare twice. We'll come back from this. We'll lick our wounds, and then we'll go kick some ass.

There is another thread for discussion of this election. It will not be going anywhere. Right now, it's full of a lot of teeth-gnashing and screaming at the heavens, and that's cool. You guys do you.

This thread, though, offers an alternative. We talk about the election, we figure out what went wrong, and we figure out how to fix it. The two threads will exist in tandem, and each of you may determine in which one you'd like to post. Trump and his followers have gone as low as it's possible to go; now is the time for us to go higher than they thought us capable.

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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

    http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

    These two articles from the other thread are a good place to start - how the Democrats lost working America is highlighted in particular.

    Moore accurately called the flipped states in the Midwest.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Get involved locally. If you have the time and inclination, run for local office. Organize safe spaces. If you have the ear of any local businesses or institutions, bend it to get them doing the same thing.

    If you've got skills, see if you can use them to help people somehow. In a general sense, but also in political terms specifically. It may not seem like the thing you know how to do is useful outside of where you normally do it, but you're probably wrong.

    Learn how to politics. Not how to talk politics, but how to actually do it. Start local, volunteering if that's what's around, and figure out how the whole thing works.

    Organize likeminded people in your community to help make things better. This could be anything from actual elections to crowdfunding an after school program to coordinating a volunteer tutor organization for local kids.

    If you've got money, find someone who will put it to good use. Even if that means funding a losing candidate, that at least puts up some visible opposition to things that would otherwise go unchallenged.

    Scream like a banshee about every first amendment issue you come across, because we're going to see a lot of them in the coming days. Bush gave us "freedom zones" to protest in, and Trump is going to be far worse than Bush.

    There are many, many more things to be done as well. Just remember, if you give up we all lose. It is dark today (literally, it's raining here after being sunny and great yesterday, I hate it when the weather editorializes), but we can't let that make us give up. The people that voted in Obama and did all the good work for Clinton didn't go anywhere, we're still here. What we do now matters in a huge way.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Or maybe it's just time to accept that "going high" doesn't work? If we want to win the next election we need to be prepared to flood Facebook with anything we think will drive a wedge between the opponent and their base, regardless of if it's true or not. If we can manage any sort of turn around in the midterms we need to gerrymander as many states as possible and shut down as many rural polling places as possible. We need to get on the news and accuse every GOP candidate of being secret Illuminati and anything else that might stick with low information voters.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I think more to the point, Democrats don't win playing defense. Clinton ran on protecting gains already made and tried to sell tiny, detail-oriented tweaks to existing programs. Trump talked about huge, crazy things like building a wall along the entire Mexican border. We had nothing to sell but what was already happening, and that just didn't resonate outside the people we already had on board.

    As a party we need to embrace some big, crazy (but in a good way) program that we can push as a core of our message. Something grandiose that we can't possibly pull off in a single term or administration, but which serves as a declaration of long-term and passionate intent. Guaranteed Basic Income, Federally-funded tech training for the entire workforce, etc. Clinton had debt free college, but that clearly wasn't big or audacious enough to get penetration.

    We also need to understand that the media doesn't cover issues anymore. And alter our messaging accordingly.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    I think that we are going to mostly be dealing with the ire of some very cynical people if Trumps rumored inner circle is who we think it is. Pence is a true believer but I honestly have no idea if he has any influence at all in Trumpland. I think we need to focus on the issues people like Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani and if he holds onto House Speakership - Paul Ryan.

    Which means that Social Security, other entitlements, the Affordable Care Act and minority communities who deal with police/federal authorities on unfavorable terms are the biggest targets.

    Here is my logic for each:

    Social Security - Wall St is basically run by vampires and privatizing Social Security is a massive influx of guaranteed money that they can play around with, probably as they see fit. A higher dow - which is what we will get at least temporarily - will be an easy mask for any regressive labor decisions that effect your average person. Paul Ryan probably had to consult a doctor four hours after the election was called because of this possibility.

    ACA/Medicare/Medicaid - Huge(r) corporate handouts incoming, Medicare part D on steroids. Medicare becomes much more expensive for taxpayers that do not use it but is mostly unaffected by those on it who do not also qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid potentially ripped away entirely, ditto for ACA but most likely replaced by a fig leaf that helps their constituency in some small token way.

    Minority communities - the only consistent policy position Trump has held since entering public life is that people who step out of line need their skulls cracked and Giuliani is basically a kindred spirit in this regard. Between the whole law and order fiasco that is incoming and what is likely in the pipeline for Muslims I expect the ideas of "due process" and "unreasonable search and seizure" are the ones the new Supreme Court gets to take behind the woodshed first

    The LGBT community - The hopeful part of me thinks that gay marriage is actually safe. Of all the awful things he said during the campaign his opposition to same sex marriage legitimately did come off as lip service at best. I do not think Pence has the swing in the administration to push it either, especially since public opinion is already north of 50% on favor and I doubt the LGBT community at large will be just letting that backslide in the years to come. Its a wedge issue they don't want us to have. That being said we are getting a regressive as fuck bathroom bill at some point I am almost sure of it.

    Abortion - Again I'm banking on Pence being locked in a lot of coat rooms for the next four years, but I do not think we see an outright repeal of the federal statute or even the groundwork although I am not putting any money on that prediction. But I will put money on getting multiple pieces of "slut shaming" legislation that much like any "bathroom bill" are going to be borderline impossible to stop this time around - but I'm hoping that the courts are not the avenue the admin pushes to give their base red meat.

    This is all guesswork of course and there is a hundred other ways they can "come after" us. Foreign policy almost demands its own thread based on what came out of Trumps mouth alone - but on the domestic side I think this is where we need to be ready to organize and stick up for people. Yes, we are going to get some god awful tax policy but quite frankly even some of our voters - the people we need to turn out in 2018/2020 are going to think that they're getting a good deal.

    Maybe Trump wants a second term and will play things that way, maybe he wants to put his name on a bunch of government buildings and leave. Maybe the GOP tries to establish a three branch majority that lasts at least ten years or maybe they're about to nuke the filibuster and run loose with the gas and matches. Some of it we have to wait and see.

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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Also Booker, Cortez Masto, Gillibrand, Duckworth, the Castros and others - time to start figuring out how our bench holds up under the spotlight and how well they can handle themselves in the presence of the shrieking white hot ball of rage. I think Kaine needs to take a step back and not be a serious part of the 2020 conversation unless our options look dire.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    We will see if this is true or not, but:


    I wonder if traditional methods for canvassing & engaging voters are simply no longer viable. People do not respond to landline phone calls like they used to; increasingly, households do not even have such things. This cripples GOTV efforts.

    It would explain why Trump's lack of a ground game until late in the season was not a liability, and why Clinton's exceptionally expansive ground game was of little help. It would also explain the large amount of polling error & uncertainty in the election.


    I've been volunteering in local provincial politics for over a year now, and these are things I know we're talking about. Physical canvassing is a lot of man hours and sometimes impossible in high density areas due to soliciting policies; phone banking increasingly shows diminished returns; social media campaigns endure something of a cart & horse problem, because Twitter & Facebook are great for amplifying a message but terrible for building an audience or having a conversation.

    I want something else that can be done to mobilize & engage allies, and/or change minds. I just have no clue what that 'something else' could be.

    With Love and Courage
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The thing I worry about is a further backslide on voting rights. Democrats might be in a position where we have to win a substantially larger share of the white vote.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Also Booker, Cortez Masto, Gillibrand, Duckworth, the Castros and others - time to start figuring out how our bench holds up under the spotlight and how well they can handle themselves in the presence of the shrieking white hot ball of rage. I think Kaine needs to take a step back and not be a serious part of the 2020 conversation unless our options look dire.

    Coumo as well. I'm not fond of him but unless he gets caught in bridgegate, which has two months to go anywhere, he's going to be involved. He's like the next generations Hillary with connections and establishment.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Also Booker, Cortez Masto, Gillibrand, Duckworth, the Castros and others - time to start figuring out how our bench holds up under the spotlight and how well they can handle themselves in the presence of the shrieking white hot ball of rage. I think Kaine needs to take a step back and not be a serious part of the 2020 conversation unless our options look dire.

    Coumo as well. I'm not fond of him but unless he gets caught in bridgegate, which has two months to go anywhere, he's going to be involved. He's like the next generations Hillary with connections and establishment.

    Keeping him as far away from the nomination as possible is an absolute imperative.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Also Booker, Cortez Masto, Gillibrand, Duckworth, the Castros and others - time to start figuring out how our bench holds up under the spotlight and how well they can handle themselves in the presence of the shrieking white hot ball of rage. I think Kaine needs to take a step back and not be a serious part of the 2020 conversation unless our options look dire.

    Coumo as well. I'm not fond of him but unless he gets caught in bridgegate, which has two months to go anywhere, he's going to be involved. He's like the next generations Hillary with connections and establishment.

    Keeping him as far away from the nomination as possible is an absolute imperative.

    Booker is already the bitter pill on that list, I can't really stomach Coumo as well.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I don't buy Kaine as a national figure in his own right. Especially now.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    I was making a recurring monthly donation to Clinton, so I now I have new space in my budget for donations elsewhere yay silver lining I guess?

    Do people here have opinions on the climate mobilization (theclimatemobilization.org/)? I joined a couple months ago but didn't donate or do anything else.

    I want to try therapy-by-way-of-doing-something-useful and see if it works.

    Also, yes, please no Booker or Cuomo.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    booker is like

    you gotta have a man in the party who's friends with wall street, you just gotta, it's a necessary evil

    and since you do, it might as well be a likable, competent guy, which Booker is

    but I don't want him in the white house; he's fine in the Senate

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    SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Ed: Wrong thread.
    Ed2: Re-included

    I remember thinking last night, before we knew that it would be moot, what if Detroit swung Michigan

    If it was the butt of a few less jokes, if it wasn't just fucking abandoned to Dan Gilbert / Quicken Loans, could we have galvanized a resistance there?

    SummaryJudgment on
    Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    We need a populist economic movement that hovers over our coalition that at least the bulk of our disparate identities can tie into. Something we can relate to someone living in the rust belt and Baltimore at the same time while also discussing things like police conduct and the future of latino immigrants in this country.

    Also as an aside, gun control of lack thereof probably had very little to do with driving turnout this election but if the Democrats do not want to abandon it wholesale they need to really codify their ambitions. No taking what you can get, leave as little wiggle room as you possibly can for them to lie to voters about what you want. Write the bill in plain language and make it available next month, but we need to take this issue off the table. No one will believe us if we pretend that we're no longer interested so we should at least take the boogeyman away as much as possible.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I remember thinking last night, before we knew that it would be moot, what if Detroit swung Michigan

    If it was the butt of a few less jokes, if it wasn't just fucking abandoned to Dan Gilbert / Quicken Loans, could we have galvanized a resistance there?

    Detroit usually does, but its population is shrinking so fast...

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I think more to the point, Democrats don't win playing defense. Clinton ran on protecting gains already made and tried to sell tiny, detail-oriented tweaks to existing programs. Trump talked about huge, crazy things like building a wall along the entire Mexican border. We had nothing to sell but what was already happening, and that just didn't resonate outside the people we already had on board.

    As a party we need to embrace some big, crazy (but in a good way) program that we can push as a core of our message. Something grandiose that we can't possibly pull off in a single term or administration, but which serves as a declaration of long-term and passionate intent. Guaranteed Basic Income, Federally-funded tech training for the entire workforce, etc. Clinton had debt free college, but that clearly wasn't big or audacious enough to get penetration.

    We also need to understand that the media doesn't cover issues anymore. And alter our messaging accordingly.

    The problem with debt free college in particular is that it holds no appeal for people who never had to deal with student debt themselves, and who either don't plan to send their children to college or can easily afford it. Basically, it only appeals to the existing Democratic base.

    In particular, we need a way to appeal to people who are trapped in areas with little economic opportunity. The current strategy seems to be "wait for them to die off". While it certainly has advantages over other solutions such as completely reengineering our economic base into something horribly inefficient or forcibly relocating poor people to cities, it still doesn't have much appeal to the people who are being affected by the policy. Shifting the strategy to "help your children to leave and probably never come back" helps a bit, but it still doesn't leave the remaining people very happy.

    edit: The only real solutions I can think of to the problem involve either a massive network of intraplanetary wormholes or total immersion in virtual reality. Can anyone come up with anything better?

    edit: Wait, climate change. Raise the water level enough that everyone is forced into a more reasonably-sized area. I think we can actually pull that one off, if we try and/or don't try.

    jothki on
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    booker is like

    you gotta have a man in the party who's friends with wall street, you just gotta, it's a necessary evil

    and since you do, it might as well be a likable, competent guy, which Booker is

    but I don't want him in the white house; he's fine in the Senate

    I don't disagree but of all the names I put out I think he's the most ready for a bigger stage if it came down to it.

    No set of consequences will deter our media from turning an election into a horserace, no one should have a notion otherwise now. Despite his enthusiastic supporters I do not think Sanders would have fared well with that reality either. Our next candidate has to be ready to stare into the abyss.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    .
    I was making a recurring monthly donation to Clinton, so I now I have new space in my budget for donations elsewhere yay silver lining I guess?

    Do people here have opinions on the climate mobilization (theclimatemobilization.org/)? I joined a couple months ago but didn't donate or do anything else.

    I want to try therapy-by-way-of-doing-something-useful and see if it works.

    Also, yes, please no Booker or Cuomo.

    I think I'm going to take a few months to recover. Maybe set a cut off date of the Super Bowl or my trip to NY in Feb. And then budget $100 a month towards down ballot candidates and groups I like. I used to give to OFA and DFA but personally they seem some combination of ineffective and up their own ass. I think I'd like to focus away from Massachusetts since its all safe here but I'm going to have to think about where the money will do the most good

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    Regardless of the state of the Democratic party, the Republican party is worse. That they managed to squeak out a win against arguably the most hated woman in America doesn't mean they're all hunky dory, and I think a large chunk of those folks are ripe for the taking.

    Eight years ago, Obama and the Dems peeled off Republicans like me. There are plenty of folks in there similarly appalled by what their party has become.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Said in the other thread, Jane Kleeb the Nebraska Democratic Chair might have a model to look at. Clinton won Omaha, Democrats won 12/25 unicam seats in a terrible year for Dems in rural areas. She's someone who came to politics protesting the Keystone pipeline and then moved into more traditional politics. Nebraska bucked the trend so we need to have a look at what she was doing. I don't actually know what that was yet.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    I can say personally that debt-free college never appealed to me personally as a policy proposal. I'm not against it, but it seems to be a misdiagnosis of the problem.

    Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    Yeah, it's getting me, too.

    I knew we had to rebuild, but I figured we'd build down, and at least sort of be in charge while we did it. Turns out, we need to build back up (or, best case scenario, out from the middle) and we'll be doing so from the political sidelines.

    Right now, there really isn't a Democratic party in any meaningful sense. There are Obama's team and Clinton's people, and then there's everyone else looking in. After this, I think it's safe to say that the Clintonites need to be pushed aside for the good of the party and the country. They've been dominating party politics for the last two and a half decades, and look where that's gotten us.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    We need a populist economic movement that hovers over our coalition that at least the bulk of our disparate identities can tie into. Something we can relate to someone living in the rust belt and Baltimore at the same time while also discussing things like police conduct and the future of latino immigrants in this country.

    Also as an aside, gun control of lack thereof probably had very little to do with driving turnout this election but if the Democrats do not want to abandon it wholesale they need to really codify their ambitions. No taking what you can get, leave as little wiggle room as you possibly can for them to lie to voters about what you want. Write the bill in plain language and make it available next month, but we need to take this issue off the table. No one will believe us if we pretend that we're no longer interested so we should at least take the boogeyman away as much as possible.

    I'm personally in favor of abolishing the Second Amendment and completely banning guns. I'm willing to settle for no ownership restrictions whatsoever, but with heavy penalties for using them in crimes (and actually fully enforcing laws about what constitutes a crime) or injuring people with them negligently.

    There are just so many more efficient things to fight over.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    Regardless of the state of the Democratic party, the Republican party is worse. That they managed to squeak out a win against arguably the most hated woman in America doesn't mean they're all hunky dory, and I think a large chunk of those folks are ripe for the taking.

    Eight years ago, Obama and the Dems peeled off Republicans like me. There are plenty of folks in there similarly appalled by what their party has become.

    Easier to rebuild when you have political power. People can get impressive achievements, build institutional power, that kind of thing. Democrats have less real power than at any time since Lincoln was shot.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    I can say personally that debt-free college never appealed to me personally as a policy proposal. I'm not against it, but it seems to be a misdiagnosis of the problem.

    Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.

    This. Not everyone can or should code. Someone has to do less intellectually stimulating and challenging or skillful jobs. Our economic policies should be at making the gap between those jobs smaller and providing a safety net to protect those who can't work. Free college stuff is great but it doesn't really address inequality, its a giveaway to a small subset of the population. That giveaway is likely socially beneficial but that's a different question.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Despite the upcoming legal obstacles (nationwide right to work!) need to rebuild the union movement or something similar. Probably need new grassroots organizations and not ones dominated by the same people.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I can say personally that debt-free college never appealed to me personally as a policy proposal. I'm not against it, but it seems to be a misdiagnosis of the problem.

    Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.

    This is definitely part of the problem. Even when it's well meaning, this sort of proposal hugely misdiagnoses the problems young people face these days. A college education isn't a guarantee of anything anymore but debt. Removing that debt is something, but it's not a plan for long term prosperity. Millenials live in a very different world than their parents did at their age.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    Mentioned in the other thread, but we need to start looking at a way for states to maintain their healthcare exchanges/Medicaid expansions once the ACA is repealed. A lot of people (including myself) are going to lose our insurance. I don't have any suggestions for how to do this other than write your legislators and governors.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Said in the other thread, Jane Kleeb the Nebraska Democratic Chair might have a model to look at. Clinton won Omaha, Democrats won 12/25 unicam seats in a terrible year for Dems in rural areas. She's someone who came to politics protesting the Keystone pipeline and then moved into more traditional politics. Nebraska bucked the trend so we need to have a look at what she was doing. I don't actually know what that was yet.

    At the very least we need to be fostering more state level operators that can produce results. Especially in otherwise red states.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    I can say personally that debt-free college never appealed to me personally as a policy proposal. I'm not against it, but it seems to be a misdiagnosis of the problem.

    Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.

    This. Not everyone can or should code. Someone has to do less intellectually stimulating and challenging or skillful jobs. Our economic policies should be at making the gap between those jobs smaller and providing a safety net to protect those who can't work. Free college stuff is great but it doesn't really address inequality, its a giveaway to a small subset of the population. That giveaway is likely socially beneficial but that's a different question.

    Everyone can absolutely code. I also think everyone should, at least a little, to better understand how the world and technology works going forward. Especially as we move into those less intellectually stimulating jobs being more and more automated. We need people to manage the automation.

    College is useful not just because of the cert you get to work at the end, but because of the life experiences and ability to meet and experience things outside of your own echo chamber. Not everyone needs to go to college for the degree but I think that experience is invaluable, however we can get it to people.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Mentioned in the other thread, but we need to start looking at a way for states to maintain their healthcare exchanges/Medicaid expansions once the ACA is repealed. A lot of people (including myself) are going to lose our insurance. I don't have any suggestions for how to do this other than write your legislators and governors.

    Without the money from the ACA, this is dead on arrival.

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    DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    The sheer enormity of what we have to do to rebuild the Democratic Party is striking me this morning.

    We need a populist economic movement that hovers over our coalition that at least the bulk of our disparate identities can tie into. Something we can relate to someone living in the rust belt and Baltimore at the same time while also discussing things like police conduct and the future of latino immigrants in this country.

    Also as an aside, gun control of lack thereof probably had very little to do with driving turnout this election but if the Democrats do not want to abandon it wholesale they need to really codify their ambitions. No taking what you can get, leave as little wiggle room as you possibly can for them to lie to voters about what you want. Write the bill in plain language and make it available next month, but we need to take this issue off the table. No one will believe us if we pretend that we're no longer interested so we should at least take the boogeyman away as much as possible.

    Yeah I agree with this. Sign a pledge to not propose any new gun control legislation* for ten years in exchange for universal background checks that 90% of the country supports anyway. The NRA will throw a fit but that's going to happen no matter what, and we know that this was the best we could hope for anyway.

    *can still oppose shitty laws they propose!

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    I can say personally that debt-free college never appealed to me personally as a policy proposal. I'm not against it, but it seems to be a misdiagnosis of the problem.

    Democrats have this fantasy I think that if everyone goes to college, everyone will have a 9-5 office job paying 55k to start or whatever when that's... frankly economically impossible. Someone is going to have to work retail, someone's gonna have to do the jobs that we consider the "bad" ones. We should be trying to make the "bad" jobs good again, give them fair compensation and a bit of respect.

    Is it impossible? My personal experience and a quick google for stats both seem to suggest there is subtantial demand for certain degree requiring jobs, such as computer science. Getting more people out of the non-degree market will also reduce supply of unskilled labor and push wages up for those workers as well.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Mentioned in the other thread, but we need to start looking at a way for states to maintain their healthcare exchanges/Medicaid expansions once the ACA is repealed. A lot of people (including myself) are going to lose our insurance. I don't have any suggestions for how to do this other than write your legislators and governors.

    Without the money from the ACA, this is dead on arrival.

    RomneyCare was dead on arrival?

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Organizationally, we need to start by identifying effective party actors at the state and local levels, especially in places that were borderline this time around; Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, etc. And we need to give them the leeway and funding to put together functional state apparatuses and run real candidates at the state level. In fact, we should start some kind of grant system that is administered by the party that just hands local and state candidates that are deemed to be of at least a certain level of viability a chunk of cash to build an organization with. With the requirement that the infrastructure they build be rolled back into the state or local party after the race.

    Then we need to come up with our pitch. Our big idea, the thing that we can force the media to talk about instead of focusing on personality politics. Our "build the wall", basically. And make that part of the messaging and platform, top to bottom, local to President. Make it something the media has to talk about when they talk about Democrats or the Democratic Party. I'm talking about Universal Healthcare, Guaranteed Basic Income, $15 minimum wage, something like that. Aspirational and audacious, something that critics will have to explain their opposition to, however briefly.

    There are so many things we need to do to become a real, viable party again. But these two things are where we should start.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Mentioned in the other thread, but we need to start looking at a way for states to maintain their healthcare exchanges/Medicaid expansions once the ACA is repealed. A lot of people (including myself) are going to lose our insurance. I don't have any suggestions for how to do this other than write your legislators and governors.

    Without the money from the ACA, this is dead on arrival.

    RomneyCare was dead on arrival?

    We'll be keeping ours but it will be weaker

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    You can't run on details. You have to run a vision. Obama had it, and sold it. Clinton had it, and argued about sex scandals. She went personal against a reality TV star, and low information voters ate it up. He knows how to entertain, and that was enough to win.

    If we are going to go high, the vision has to be grand. Let the policy wonks wonk, but don't run them as candidates. Learn from this DNC, there is plenty of time post election to come up with policy details, we need to be told what you want America to look like, because we're no longer arguing the details. The 90's are over. You can't just run the numbers, you have to argue. To fight. To plead your case, and be willing to take a hit for the country. We talked a lot about how much of a policy genius Clinton is, and I still agree with that. But her taking her turn cost us, and cost us dearly. Her unfavorables were high, and fixed. We need to be better, to be smarter, to not lecture but figure out how to reach those parts of America who feels, rightly or wrongly, that the current system isn't working for them, and sell them on a way forward. Because we couldn't just keep waiting for them to die off as a solution.

    Liberalism failed this time, not due to its beliefs, but due to a lack of imagination and vision. We got hung up on the policy battles and lost the culture war.

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