No it's not, you just need to have cards that actually win the game instead of only removal.
I mean, yeah, maybe?
I'd have to entirely re-jigger the way the deck is built and that would probably invariably make it worse vs Pirate Warrior and other decks just to give me a chance of winning vs Jade Druid.
Meanwhile Jade Druid ramps up his mana, draws through his entire goddamn deck, gains 20 Armor, and laughs as drops all these big fatties I can't do anything about.
Even a N'Zoth oriented deck would not have won me that game. Not when he plays Nourish into Nourish into Auctioneer into Auctioneer.
Like there's some decks and matchups that are just plain auto-lose. Freeze Mage can't beat Control Warrior for example. Ever. That's an auto-lose!
I dunno. Shit's mad frustrating, man.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+1
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Jade druid isn't this insurmountable thing. It's not even being played at high ranks.
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
+4
Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
Hahaha that was great.
Dragon Priest vs. Reno Mage.
I Drakonid Operative a Cabalist's Tome from him, then play it to get... two more Cabalist's Tomes, which let me outlast him when the game went into Fatigue.
Silly Mage, only putting one Cabalist's Tome in his deck instead of three.
It's insurmountable for certain decks. Reno Mage for instance, and I'd wager Reno Priest and Control warrior as well.
Decks should have hard counters. If one deck is strong against everything, then we're back to midrange shaman. No thanks.
If you are playing a deck that is really bad against a popular deck, I can see why you'd be frustrated. But, the answer isn't to keep queueing with the same deck. You are very rarely going to brute force your way through a bad matchup.
I don't think it's a top tier, meta defining deck.
I do think it pretty much auto wins versus certain decks, like my new favourote Reno Mage. There is no way to tweak Reno Mage to beat Jade Druid consistently without making it another deck.
I do think it's really, really frustrating to play against.
I know I can go play pirate warrior, maly rogue or maly druid and probably beat the shit out of it. But I don't want to play aggro or combo decks.
Control decks allready have a bunch of bad matchups, jade druid is horrible.
Poor Dogger on the recieving end of a CUH-RAAAAAZY COMBO
omg this is too beautiful
Damn, someone figured it out. I think this Maly combo druid is going to be better than jade druid, especially if the threat of jade druid keeps control warrior out of the meta.
0
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
Poor Dogger on the recieving end of a CUH-RAAAAAZY COMBO
omg this is too beautiful
Damn, someone figured it out. I think this Maly combo druid is going to be better than jade druid, especially if the threat of jade druid keeps control warrior out of the meta.
Actually won two with my reno mage today by simply throwing all burn straight to face. But you are dependant on drawing more burn from Tome or Conjurer or Babbling book.
Edit: also, I think there is a significant difference between Control and combodecks and saying combodecks can still beat Jade Druid, while true, does not prove that control decks can. They are different things! Some of us enjoy control, not combo...
Proactive control decks are still control decks, they just aren't purely reactive.
frankly fatigue-style control decks are lucky they existed as long as they did in hearthstone
every card game generally regards a control deck whose wincon is "eventually, the other player will lose the game" instead of like, playing a card, to be a mistake
I don't think it's a top tier, meta defining deck.
I do think it pretty much auto wins versus certain decks, like my new favourote Reno Mage. There is no way to tweak Reno Mage to beat Jade Druid consistently without making it another deck.
I do think it's really, really frustrating to play against.
I know I can go play pirate warrior, maly rogue or maly druid and probably beat the shit out of it. But I don't want to play aggro or combo decks.
Control decks allready have a bunch of bad matchups, jade druid is horrible.
This is pretty much where Tier 2 decks reside almost by definition. Your deck will be a strong counter to certain archetypes and can potentially find seams in the metagame, but has a bad matchup against one of the premier or popular decks.
This is not "control decks are dead", this is "my deck has an unwinnable matchup against a popular deck at the moment". Sometimes this happens, there are other avenues for control (N'zoth taunt warrior for example).
Roz on
+2
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited December 2016
yeah I just added alex into my reno mage. I don't see why that couldn't be enough to make it able to steal some wins even against jade druid.
reno priest seems to feel more like reno lock and then reno mage is more of its own thing... the former two being closer to midrangey with the dragon/demon/whatever
edit - not sure if midrange is the right word but they have more minions is what I am trying to say.
yeah I just added alex into my reno mage. I don't see why that couldn't be enough to make it able to steal some wins even against jade druid.
reno priest seems to feel more like reno lock and then reno mage is more of its own thing... the former two being closer to midrangey with the dragon/demon/whatever
edit - not sure if midrange is the right word but they have more minions is what I am trying to say.
I agree. Renolock has always been doing kind of the handlock thing, playing beefy midgame minions into a huge value lategame. Kazakus potions complement that extremely well (hello resurrect three minions). They can run away with the board in the late game.
Reno mage is still about grinding out resources. I've got Alex and Rag in mine for extra threats and some healing, but I think Reno mage will have to change a bit to really take full advantage of Kazakus.
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
find myself kind of regretting crafting the mage legendary. if it wasn't for my needing only mage and pally still for golden heroes I'd be in full on regret mode, but being as I am gonna spend extra time with the class anyway I don't mind so much having it to play around with. just not sure it's that good.
Jade druid isn't this insurmountable thing. It's not even being played at high ranks.
Yeah, it's pretty much non-existent there. From what I've seen, it's a lot of Pirate Warrior, Reno Warlock & the unspoken horror that is Midrange Shaman.
Turns out when the most played deck is a bunch of cheap guys, cards like Maelstrom Portal, Lightning Storm and big free taunts are still pretty good. Who knew? Also... they gave Shaman a Healbot.
In my Reno Mage I'm seriously thinking about adding in frost nova/doomsayer to try and counter jade golem/hand paladin board spam. Once you get Druid down to just summoning one golem a turn in the middle of the game, they're a lot easier to handle.
Also, I think jeweled scarab is....not great. Sometimes it gives you ice block, sometimes it gives you a choice between thrallmar farseerer, razorfen, and iron forge rifleman. Kabal courier might be falling into the same hole with just having too many possible options to be consistently useful. The random potion one is good, mainly because only like one or two of the potions are dead cards to Reno Mage.
I have to say, I'm enjoying playing Jade Rogue, but it's kind of boring that the best play against both Jade Rogue and Druid is FACE regardless of your deck because they're so weak early and you need to end the game.
In my Reno Mage I'm seriously thinking about adding in frost nova/doomsayer to try and counter jade golem/hand paladin board spam. Once you get Druid down to just summoning one golem a turn in the middle of the game, they're a lot easier to handle.
Also, I think jeweled scarab is....not great. Sometimes it gives you ice block, sometimes it gives you a choice between thrallmar farseerer, razorfen, and iron forge rifleman. Kabal courier might be falling into the same hole with just having too many possible options to be consistently useful. The random potion one is good, mainly because only like one or two of the potions are dead cards to Reno Mage.
I agree, scarab hasn't been super great for me either. I have a flamewaker I might sub out as well. Maybe for an early taunt or heal to help against pirate warrior. Would love to try that new 2/6 for 2 mana but didn't open one and am hesitant to craft for 400 dusteroos.
Solia has been great for me since crafting her though. Talk about explosive turns!
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
reno mage
I took out scarab very quickly and I run doomsayer though not frost nova. with singles it's too unlikely to hit the combo so it's just a naked early play aganst tempo type decks. if it's something that gets rolling later, blizz/doomsayer can work.
but I actually came in to say - as if symbolically, I won my first game after adding in a PYROBLAST against a jade druid who I don't think expected it.
I also won the game before that, pre pyroblast, in the same matchup because of a very sexy sylvanus based turn that I was able to snowball into a win before my opponent recovered from it all thanks in large part to Ms Alex Strasza.
I took out scarab very quickly and I run doomsayer though not frost nova. with singles it's too unlikely to hit the combo so it's just a naked early play aganst tempo type decks. if it's something that gets rolling later, blizz/doomsayer can work.
but I actually came in to say - as if symbolically, I won my first game after adding in a PYROBLAST against a jade druid who I don't think expected it.
I also won the game before that, pre pyroblast, in the same matchup because of a very sexy sylvanus based turn that I was able to snowball into a win before my opponent recovered from it all thanks in large part to Ms Alex Strasza.
I've been explaining to people that Reno Mage should really be running pyro. You can end matches you otherwise couldn't with it. I've won a not insignificant amount of games on the back of Solia + Pyro after bashing them in the face with minions and burn spells early on.
Frost Nova is a great card for Reno, it's so versatile. It can delay them so you can draw your aoe or block or Reno, you can use it with Antonidas.
+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
omg, just kept a midrange shaman at bay for a good 7 turns without drawing aoe (and with kaz sort of whiffing)... involved some freezing to slow, kaz turning some 2/2s and 0/2s into 1/1 sheep (not sure if I reduced damage here but it was my best shot), and then ultimately burning down the shaman over 3 turns
damn, that really felt like I pulled it out of nowhere.
I think Mage, largely due to freeze of course but often enough with reno, is the class that provides the most common feeling like you set yourself up like 3-4 turns before you can actually win. rogue has it to a degree and of course all decks require planning and saving certain cards, but mage is just something else. the combo of burn and ice block being the heart of it all.
Oh yeah so I've been toying around with a Demon Renolock list as well.
Kabal Trafficker is a GOOD CARD. Wowee. She's just this big ol' value generator that forces your opponent to have removal. And if not, more value for your Krul turn.
Yeah sure, sometimes you get duds like Blood Imp or whatever. But you have a pretty good chance of getting something decent too. Getting a big drop can be potentially game winning on its own.
That's a fun deck, too. Still figuring out what I should and shouldn't be running though. I'm also not sure if it's weaker than regular Renolock. It might be.
Edit: Oh yeah decklist:
I think I probably need a Mortal Coil in there. Not sure what to pitch for it. I might want a Blastcrystal Potion too, probably will ditch one of the Kabal Tri-Class cards for it.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+4
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
just hit 400 with mage. so close I can taste it.
my reward will be trying out reno lock. I haven't played any non-zoo lock since I hit gold with demonlock when it was at its height.
Oh yeah so I've been toying around with a Demon Renolock list as well.
Kabal Trafficker is a GOOD CARD. Wowee. She's just this big ol' value generator that forces your opponent to have removal. And if not, more value for your Krul turn.
Yeah sure, sometimes you get duds like Blood Imp or whatever. But you have a pretty good chance of getting something decent too. Getting a big drop can be potentially game winning on its own.
That's a fun deck, too. Still figuring out what I should and shouldn't be running though. I'm also not sure if it's weaker than regular Renolock. It might be.
Edit: Oh yeah decklist:
[snip]
I think I probably need a Mortal Coil in there. Not sure what to pitch for it. I might want a Blastcrystal Potion too, probably will ditch one of the Kabal Tri-Class cards for it.
Oh hey yeah other stuff I've noted:
- Mistress of Mixtures is HELLA GOOD. Super dece 1 drop, challenges 2 drops and heals you for 4.
- Sergeant Sally is no bueno. It seems good on paper with PO, but it's a 2 card combo and Sally is useless on her own. It also forces you to save PO for Sally specifically unless you get a dupe from Peddler. It's also especially bad if you need to board clear and only have Sally but no PO, or vice versa. Not worth running, just run your standard board clears instead.
- Felfire Potion is GOOD. It's yet another board clear, but it also damages the enemy's face. You can lethal with it!
- Courier and Chemist are okay. I was running them for the sake of running them, and they've provided some nice pulls, but I think I need more consistency instead (Mortal Coil+Blastcrystal Potion). I'd run all four if I could!
- Abyssal Enforcer is JUST AS HUGE OF A TEMPO SWING AS I THOUGHT IT'D BE HOLY CRAP. Yeah, no, this card is insane. One of the best new Warlock cards for sure.
- Krul is good!! This one's obvious, but I felt it needed stating anyway. Even just pulling Doomguard alone makes him worth it.
It's a fun deck! Still might tweak it some more, maybe fit Sylvanas in there (good synergy with PO too!)
I do like Reno Mage, but boy... I have not had a game shorter than 20 minutes.
Honestly half the reason aggro's so prevalent is probably because of how ladder works. If an aggro deck and control deck have similar winrates but one has 5 minute games and one has 20 minute games, you only play control if you really like it.
In my Reno Mage I'm seriously thinking about adding in frost nova/doomsayer to try and counter jade golem/hand paladin board spam. Once you get Druid down to just summoning one golem a turn in the middle of the game, they're a lot easier to handle.
Also, I think jeweled scarab is....not great. Sometimes it gives you ice block, sometimes it gives you a choice between thrallmar farseerer, razorfen, and iron forge rifleman. Kabal courier might be falling into the same hole with just having too many possible options to be consistently useful. The random potion one is good, mainly because only like one or two of the potions are dead cards to Reno Mage.
I agree, scarab hasn't been super great for me either. I have a flamewaker I might sub out as well. Maybe for an early taunt or heal to help against pirate warrior. Would love to try that new 2/6 for 2 mana but didn't open one and am hesitant to craft for 400 dusteroos.
Solia has been great for me since crafting her though. Talk about explosive turns!
I pulled Solia on my 2nd MSG pack. It's been a lot of fun on turn 7 playing her and Firelands Portal, or flamestrike.
I was originally running pyroblast in my reno deck, but after a few games of having what was effectively a dead card I swapped it out. A lot of the time you can get the 8 direct damage option off of kazakus, and combo that with Solia too.
Posts
I mean, yeah, maybe?
I'd have to entirely re-jigger the way the deck is built and that would probably invariably make it worse vs Pirate Warrior and other decks just to give me a chance of winning vs Jade Druid.
Meanwhile Jade Druid ramps up his mana, draws through his entire goddamn deck, gains 20 Armor, and laughs as drops all these big fatties I can't do anything about.
Even a N'Zoth oriented deck would not have won me that game. Not when he plays Nourish into Nourish into Auctioneer into Auctioneer.
Like there's some decks and matchups that are just plain auto-lose. Freeze Mage can't beat Control Warrior for example. Ever. That's an auto-lose!
I dunno. Shit's mad frustrating, man.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
PSN: Threeve703
Dragon Priest vs. Reno Mage.
I Drakonid Operative a Cabalist's Tome from him, then play it to get... two more Cabalist's Tomes, which let me outlast him when the game went into Fatigue.
Silly Mage, only putting one Cabalist's Tome in his deck instead of three.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
What happens with mortal coil?
omg this is too beautiful
Decks should have hard counters. If one deck is strong against everything, then we're back to midrange shaman. No thanks.
If you are playing a deck that is really bad against a popular deck, I can see why you'd be frustrated. But, the answer isn't to keep queueing with the same deck. You are very rarely going to brute force your way through a bad matchup.
PSN: Threeve703
I don't think it's a top tier, meta defining deck.
I do think it pretty much auto wins versus certain decks, like my new favourote Reno Mage. There is no way to tweak Reno Mage to beat Jade Druid consistently without making it another deck.
I do think it's really, really frustrating to play against.
I know I can go play pirate warrior, maly rogue or maly druid and probably beat the shit out of it. But I don't want to play aggro or combo decks.
Control decks allready have a bunch of bad matchups, jade druid is horrible.
Damn, someone figured it out. I think this Maly combo druid is going to be better than jade druid, especially if the threat of jade druid keeps control warrior out of the meta.
Apparently you draw a card and the reporter lives anyway.
Eh, I doubt it. Too many pieces.
Proactive control decks are still control decks, they just aren't purely reactive.
every card game generally regards a control deck whose wincon is "eventually, the other player will lose the game" instead of like, playing a card, to be a mistake
This is pretty much where Tier 2 decks reside almost by definition. Your deck will be a strong counter to certain archetypes and can potentially find seams in the metagame, but has a bad matchup against one of the premier or popular decks.
This is not "control decks are dead", this is "my deck has an unwinnable matchup against a popular deck at the moment". Sometimes this happens, there are other avenues for control (N'zoth taunt warrior for example).
reno priest seems to feel more like reno lock and then reno mage is more of its own thing... the former two being closer to midrangey with the dragon/demon/whatever
edit - not sure if midrange is the right word but they have more minions is what I am trying to say.
I agree. Renolock has always been doing kind of the handlock thing, playing beefy midgame minions into a huge value lategame. Kazakus potions complement that extremely well (hello resurrect three minions). They can run away with the board in the late game.
Reno mage is still about grinding out resources. I've got Alex and Rag in mine for extra threats and some healing, but I think Reno mage will have to change a bit to really take full advantage of Kazakus.
PSN: Threeve703
So many untuned decks out there that they're not really able to withstand the DPS check my non-combo cards are giving them.
When I get Barnes Y'Shaarj that's just gravy. Though the last opponent did topdeck a Mulch the very next turn.
Turns out when the most played deck is a bunch of cheap guys, cards like Maelstrom Portal, Lightning Storm and big free taunts are still pretty good. Who knew? Also... they gave Shaman a Healbot.
Also, I think jeweled scarab is....not great. Sometimes it gives you ice block, sometimes it gives you a choice between thrallmar farseerer, razorfen, and iron forge rifleman. Kabal courier might be falling into the same hole with just having too many possible options to be consistently useful. The random potion one is good, mainly because only like one or two of the potions are dead cards to Reno Mage.
I agree, scarab hasn't been super great for me either. I have a flamewaker I might sub out as well. Maybe for an early taunt or heal to help against pirate warrior. Would love to try that new 2/6 for 2 mana but didn't open one and am hesitant to craft for 400 dusteroos.
Solia has been great for me since crafting her though. Talk about explosive turns!
Glorious.
I took out scarab very quickly and I run doomsayer though not frost nova. with singles it's too unlikely to hit the combo so it's just a naked early play aganst tempo type decks. if it's something that gets rolling later, blizz/doomsayer can work.
but I actually came in to say - as if symbolically, I won my first game after adding in a PYROBLAST against a jade druid who I don't think expected it.
I also won the game before that, pre pyroblast, in the same matchup because of a very sexy sylvanus based turn that I was able to snowball into a win before my opponent recovered from it all thanks in large part to Ms Alex Strasza.
I've been explaining to people that Reno Mage should really be running pyro. You can end matches you otherwise couldn't with it. I've won a not insignificant amount of games on the back of Solia + Pyro after bashing them in the face with minions and burn spells early on.
damn, that really felt like I pulled it out of nowhere.
I think Mage, largely due to freeze of course but often enough with reno, is the class that provides the most common feeling like you set yourself up like 3-4 turns before you can actually win. rogue has it to a degree and of course all decks require planning and saving certain cards, but mage is just something else. the combo of burn and ice block being the heart of it all.
Kabal Trafficker is a GOOD CARD. Wowee. She's just this big ol' value generator that forces your opponent to have removal. And if not, more value for your Krul turn.
Yeah sure, sometimes you get duds like Blood Imp or whatever. But you have a pretty good chance of getting something decent too. Getting a big drop can be potentially game winning on its own.
That's a fun deck, too. Still figuring out what I should and shouldn't be running though. I'm also not sure if it's weaker than regular Renolock. It might be.
Edit: Oh yeah decklist:
I think I probably need a Mortal Coil in there. Not sure what to pitch for it. I might want a Blastcrystal Potion too, probably will ditch one of the Kabal Tri-Class cards for it.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
my reward will be trying out reno lock. I haven't played any non-zoo lock since I hit gold with demonlock when it was at its height.
time to hang up the boots
Oh hey yeah other stuff I've noted:
- Mistress of Mixtures is HELLA GOOD. Super dece 1 drop, challenges 2 drops and heals you for 4.
- Sergeant Sally is no bueno. It seems good on paper with PO, but it's a 2 card combo and Sally is useless on her own. It also forces you to save PO for Sally specifically unless you get a dupe from Peddler. It's also especially bad if you need to board clear and only have Sally but no PO, or vice versa. Not worth running, just run your standard board clears instead.
- Felfire Potion is GOOD. It's yet another board clear, but it also damages the enemy's face. You can lethal with it!
- Courier and Chemist are okay. I was running them for the sake of running them, and they've provided some nice pulls, but I think I need more consistency instead (Mortal Coil+Blastcrystal Potion). I'd run all four if I could!
- Abyssal Enforcer is JUST AS HUGE OF A TEMPO SWING AS I THOUGHT IT'D BE HOLY CRAP. Yeah, no, this card is insane. One of the best new Warlock cards for sure.
- Krul is good!! This one's obvious, but I felt it needed stating anyway. Even just pulling Doomguard alone makes him worth it.
It's a fun deck! Still might tweak it some more, maybe fit Sylvanas in there (good synergy with PO too!)
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Outside of legendaries, Mistress of Mixtures is probably my favourite card in the set. She's just so fucking good in slow decks.
HE HAS PANTS
LITTLE SHEEP PANTS
SO PRECIOUS
PSN: Threeve703
Honestly half the reason aggro's so prevalent is probably because of how ladder works. If an aggro deck and control deck have similar winrates but one has 5 minute games and one has 20 minute games, you only play control if you really like it.
I am done with this game.
For a couple hours.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
I pulled Solia on my 2nd MSG pack. It's been a lot of fun on turn 7 playing her and Firelands Portal, or flamestrike.
I was originally running pyroblast in my reno deck, but after a few games of having what was effectively a dead card I swapped it out. A lot of the time you can get the 8 direct damage option off of kazakus, and combo that with Solia too.