I think the benefit to the open worldness of XV is that it made the world feel like a whole connected thing, compared to the disjointedness of X or XII (at least to me). It brought back that feeling that we lost when the whole world map/overworld went away.
It's hard for me to diss the open-world too badly, because if you were to ask me my favorite moment of the game, it'd probably be some form of 'when prompto snapped a super cool/funny picture.' If they didn't manage to inject so much personality into just the road trip feel of traversing the world map, the boredom and generic nature of everything would have just been too much to bear.
I think the benefit to the open worldness of XV is that it made the world feel like a whole connected thing, compared to the disjointedness of X or XII (at least to me). It brought back that feeling that we lost when the whole world map/overworld went away.
It had the opposite effect on me because all of the major players in the world are off-screen and largely inaccessible.
There's an Empire, but it largely exists in an imaginary way. Similarly, the kingdom Noctis is a prince of. It's as though there's a conflict between the US and some other country, but the only part of the world you can ever know is Rhode Island. Everyone talks about the Empire, but it might as well not exist given how little the game does with it, both as a nation state and as an idea.
Regarding the 'open' world....
It was just a waste of time. The car was terrible, the characters were terrible, the world was largely devoid of personality and not coherent at all.... Nothing to do or find except hunts and extra dungeons, but the combat sucked, so why bother? At least the game tried to be something - a bland, confusing something, but something - during the second half.
It's hard for me to diss the open-world too badly, because if you were to ask me my favorite moment of the game, it'd probably be some form of 'when prompto snapped a super cool/funny picture.' If they didn't manage to inject so much personality into just the road trip feel of traversing the world map, the boredom and generic nature of everything would have just been too much to bear.
That part was pretty cool, my favorite random image was probably this picture because it was so odd.
Lots of creepy shit going on with Necromancers, Laser Slimes and Undead Ronins
Followed by Ignis being placed right in the center of the shot doing a casual anime'esque "Let me adjust my glasses, shits about to get real" moment.
PROMPTO ARE YOU TAKING PICTURES INSTEAD OF FIGHTING AGAIN I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU DIE BECAUSE YOU'RE TAKING A SELFIE IN AN AOE AGAIN I'MMA TURN THIS CAR AROUND.
I think the benefit to the open worldness of XV is that it made the world feel like a whole connected thing, compared to the disjointedness of X or XII (at least to me). It brought back that feeling that we lost when the whole world map/overworld went away.
It had the opposite effect on me because all of the major players in the world are off-screen and largely inaccessible.
There's an Empire, but it largely exists in an imaginary way. Similarly, the kingdom Noctis is a prince of. It's as though there's a conflict between the US and some other country, but the only part of the world you can ever know is Rhode Island. Everyone talks about the Empire, but it might as well not exist given how little the game does with it, both as a nation state and as an idea.
Regarding the 'open' world....
It was just a waste of time. The car was terrible, the characters were terrible, the world was largely devoid of personality and not coherent at all.... Nothing to do or find except hunts and extra dungeons, but the combat sucked, so why bother? At least the game tried to be something - a bland, confusing something, but something - during the second half.
Yep. No time is really used to set up anything or anyone, or really do anything of substance in the first half. No one really talks about anything meaningful. Your spending a lot of your time collecting royal weapons (half of which are entirely optional!) and summons, but these are pretty much trinkets and goals which feel as though they have no real bearing on the plot at all. We're just TOLD they're important.
And when things go to shit in the second half, we're just suddenly supposed to care about everything, and this Doomsday Thing is happening, and This character is actually THAT. And it's just too much, too late.
I think the benefit to the open worldness of XV is that it made the world feel like a whole connected thing, compared to the disjointedness of X or XII (at least to me). It brought back that feeling that we lost when the whole world map/overworld went away.
It had the opposite effect on me because all of the major players in the world are off-screen and largely inaccessible.
There's an Empire, but it largely exists in an imaginary way. Similarly, the kingdom Noctis is a prince of. It's as though there's a conflict between the US and some other country, but the only part of the world you can ever know is Rhode Island. Everyone talks about the Empire, but it might as well not exist given how little the game does with it, both as a nation state and as an idea.
Regarding the 'open' world....
It was just a waste of time. The car was terrible, the characters were terrible, the world was largely devoid of personality and not coherent at all.... Nothing to do or find except hunts and extra dungeons, but the combat sucked, so why bother? At least the game tried to be something - a bland, confusing something, but something - during the second half.
For me the linear part is when the meat started falling off the bone. I can see liking it because they finally are deciding to do some sort of plot. But it's at this point that, at any given moment they have about 5 key important plot points they need to explain, and they can only pick one. For every question answered, there are 4 more thrown away and never addressed. And they can't use the excuse of "We had to limit it to Noctis's point of view, because by all rights there's at least a moment where he should have said "Wait a fucking minute full stop. That doesn't make any sense. Why is the asshole who tried to kill me before now suddenly wanting to give me my father's sword and acknowledge me as king?!". Instead he acts like that's totally normal and expected. Like he has access and knowledge to plot details that we the viewer never get to see.
The way this all plays out is in a very weird situation. I want to give the team props for desperately trying to choose which plot to tell and which to sadly cut, because that's how the situation felt to me. On the other hand, given this game's development time, this should never have been a thing in the first place. All that time, and they never once had the entirety of the plot nailed down. And that's just sad.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
It wasn't even a road trip. They weren't going anywhere. They drive back and forth more times than are countable for fetch quests for random peasants who are asking the Crown Prince / King to do mundane shit for them, and really just "driving" without a cause.
The whole first 5 or 6 chapters of the game are completely meaningless and unimportant. And those chapters are where they obviously invested 90% of their development time.
I think the benefit to the open worldness of XV is that it made the world feel like a whole connected thing, compared to the disjointedness of X or XII (at least to me). It brought back that feeling that we lost when the whole world map/overworld went away.
It had the opposite effect on me because all of the major players in the world are off-screen and largely inaccessible.
There's an Empire, but it largely exists in an imaginary way. Similarly, the kingdom Noctis is a prince of. It's as though there's a conflict between the US and some other country, but the only part of the world you can ever know is Rhode Island. Everyone talks about the Empire, but it might as well not exist given how little the game does with it, both as a nation state and as an idea.
Regarding the 'open' world....
It was just a waste of time. The car was terrible, the characters were terrible, the world was largely devoid of personality and not coherent at all.... Nothing to do or find except hunts and extra dungeons, but the combat sucked, so why bother? At least the game tried to be something - a bland, confusing something, but something - during the second half.
For me the linear part is when the meat started falling off the bone. I can see liking it because they finally are deciding to do some sort of plot. But it's at this point that, at any given moment they have about 5 key important plot points they need to explain, and they can only pick one. For every question answered, there are 4 more thrown away and never addressed. And they can't use the excuse of "We had to limit it to Noctis's point of view, because by all rights there's at least a moment where he should have said "Wait a fucking minute full stop. That doesn't make any sense. Why is the asshole who tried to kill me before now suddenly wanting to give me my father's sword and acknowledge me as king?!". Instead he acts like that's totally normal and expected. Like he has access and knowledge to plot details that we the viewer never get to see.
The way this all plays out is in a very weird situation. I want to give the team props for desperately trying to choose which plot to tell and which to sadly cut, because that's how the situation felt to me. On the other hand, given this game's development time, this should never have been a thing in the first place. All that time, and they never once had the entirety of the plot nailed down. And that's just sad.
Like Lucascraft said, the open world segment was just utterly pointless. It sets a few things up:
The fall of the kingdom and theft of the crystal
A really vague notion of a quest (Noctis needs the weapons because they're magic and powerful, and the Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan blessings for reasons never adequately explained until near the end of the game)
A destination to go to (the place where Luna is... I can't even remember the name)
Introduces us to Ardyn
Sets up the idea that the Empire is experimenting on people
Tries (and fails, IMO) to make us care about Noctis and Luna
But, that's like 5 minutes worth of actual story. The bulk of the time is spent just farting around with no urgency. And that leads to major issues in terms of tone and characterization, like:
Gladio scolding Noctis for being petulant/lazy/whatever, even though Noctis is essentially a silent protagonist until that point
Prompto having a heart-to-heart with Noctis on the roof which is never referenced again, nor does it impact either character in any discernible way
Ignis just being sort of existing as a smarmy know-it-all, with his one moment actually used to smooth things over with Noctis and Gladio rather than make him into someone noteworthy
A whole bunch of unearned, desperate attempts at stirring up feelings like Luna's murder, the last camp out, and the ending with Luna and Noctis, all of which just fall completely flat IMO.
The first half of the game should've been spent fleshing everything out, especially the characters. The camping and stays at inns were perfect opportunities to have character moments. The in-car radio a perfect avenue for an actual news/talk radio station that fleshes out the world rather than reports after story beats that don't really expand on anything. I mean, shit, Noctis has a smart phone.... there should've been an in-game internet he could access. And it's not like any of these suggestions are unheard of. GTA has been providing these things for years.
Also, limiting the game to the group's POV was an interesting choice, but it makes the heroes feel incompetent. They spend the game always at least a step, if not way more, behind. There's not even a real victory at the end... everything goes according to Ardyn's plan, and he's (mostly) fine with Noctis killing him because it means Noctis dies as well. And that, to me, is utterly unsatisfying. I'd rather play as Ardyn than impotent heroes.
for as big as the world was supposed to be, I always felt very confined. We get a piece of one continent that is locked by story progression (which is fine) and then when we finally get to another location its tiny, and then an even tinier final location. The openness of the world just felt purposeless compared to say breath of the wild or fallout or skyrim
for as big as the world was supposed to be, I always felt very confined. We get a piece of one continent that is locked by story progression (which is fine) and then when we finally get to another location its tiny, and then an even tinier final location. The openness of the world just felt purposeless compared to say breath of the wild or fallout or skyrim
Exactly. I can forgive BotW for being a huge landmass that's sparsely populated because it's a post-apocalyptic tale. The world was fucked over 100 years prior, and the survivors are basically just past the point of licking their wounds when disaster looms again. And between the memories and ruins strewn about, there's enough of a hint about what things used to be like before the fall.
Similarly, Skyrim makes a lot of sense as a setting. It's a harsh, unforgiving land. The warmer climates have more people, but there are regular encounters with various NPCs on the road, especially, again, in the warmer areas.
XV's setting makes no goddamn sense in any way.
Where Noctis sees his city smoking and learns his father is dead
We can see a huge city. It's close, maybe 5-10 miles away, perhaps even closer. Yet, the area where the open world segment takes place is inexplicably sparse. There's exactly one town (Lestallum), and it's pretty obviously created in such a way to combat loading times (why, hello winding narrow alleys and streets). The rest is:
1 small beach resort (Galdin Quay)
1 unique gas station (Hammerhead)
1 other unique area (lighthouse/dock)
A host of cut-and-paste gas stations with campers
There's a well-maintained road system, yet no cars. It's your bros, and maybe (maybe) one other car on the road at any given time. The bros have smartphones, but none of the other locations even have TV, despite being mere miles away from a modern metropolis. We learn about hunters who keep towns (er... town) safe from daemons at night, yet we only meet Dave and one other female hunter NPC. There are no hunters to be found at night, none patrolling near gas stations, nothing. And on and on and on....
It's just a disjointed setting in a ton of different ways. It's obvious that the developers simply mashed a bunch of shit together without thinking about the connective tissue necessary to create a legitimate feeling of place. And that setting dissonance just permeates the entire game, and is highlighted by there being nothing to do outside of fishing and optional dungeons. It's actually less meat than what IX - the last world map game - had (Chocobo Hot and Cold, Mognet, Tetra Master, optional dungeons, ultimate weapons, etc.), just prettier.
It's just this large, mostly empty space with nothing to do. A waste of time and effort for both the player and developers.
And the one big, interesting city you visit (right at the narrative chokepoint) is somewhere between irritating & impossible to navigate, and entirely too easy to leave on the final stages of the game without having fully explored it.
I'm one of those weirdos who not only enjoyed the open world stuff in XV, but enjoyed it more than any open world in any previous open world game. And I also felt like the whole "here's the open world, and you can go back via a menu" thing was great, because it meant they could do things most open world games don't:
fuck the world up
.
I won't argue that it couldn't have been better, or that I didn't want more, because I definitely did. But as far as the actual structure (sort of a backwards FFVI), I'd love to see a better execution of that in the future.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
It wasn't the greatest movie ever or anything, but I liked Kingsglaive enough. Square posted a gorgeous wallpaper for its 1st anniversary:
It released in Japan on July 9th, so yes, straight up one year ago.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
I had to apologize to my friend for taking him to see that in theaters. How time flies.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Kind of wish they'd made a film about the golden age of Insomnia, the Glaive get played by Iedolas in every sense of the word during the film. Every plan they think they have fails miserably.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Just hit Chapter 9 in FFXV. Boarded the ship and went to the coastal city... I have to say that I really, really hate not being able to run in cities. And having to get a Gondola to get to the restaurant is bullshit. This entire city is way too complicated to navigate.
You're in that city for about 5 minutes. Also, the map is a lie. Altissa was one of the things in the game that suffered from huge cuts. You only have the one gondola loop. The others aren't accessible.
You're in that city for about 5 minutes. Also, the map is a lie. Altissa was one of the things in the game that suffered from huge cuts. You only have the one gondola loop. The others aren't accessible.
You're in that city for about 5 minutes. Also, the map is a lie. Altissa was one of the things in the game that suffered from huge cuts. You only have the one gondola loop. The others aren't accessible.
I spent a good 30 minutes trying to navigate around lol.
You're in that city for about 5 minutes. Also, the map is a lie. Altissa was one of the things in the game that suffered from huge cuts. You only have the one gondola loop. The others aren't accessible.
They are if you go back later for the hunts
Huh, never knew that.
Of course, at the point where I got to Altissa, I was trying to end the misery as quickly as possible.
So...anyone knows if FFXII:ZA removes the original's ability queue?
Oh god that was the dumbest thing.
Scathe was so bad about that.
What's the ability queue? I don't remember this.
Basically a limit on how many graphically-intensive spells could be in play at once. There were 8 points available, and anything that exceeded that had to wait before it could be executed. The best spells like Holy and Flare took up all 8 points by themselves, so they basically put all other spells on hold whenever they were cast.
So...anyone knows if FFXII:ZA removes the original's ability queue?
Oh god that was the dumbest thing.
Scathe was so bad about that.
What's the ability queue? I don't remember this.
Basically a limit on how many graphically-intensive spells could be in play at once. There were 8 points available, and anything that exceeded that had to wait before it could be executed. The best spells like Holy and Flare took up all 8 points by themselves, so they basically put all other spells on hold whenever they were cast.
This meant having more than one person playing lage worked out poorly. Two people buffed to hell autoattacking while you used the third for magic is how I beat most stuff in the game.
I know this isn't quite the right thread to ask but was there ever any consensus on if a PS4 pro at $400 was worth it? Amazon's got slims with uncharted 4 and last of us (I'm probably about the last person who still hasn't played it) for $229 today and it's real tempting. I do most of my gaming on PC, but FF12/15 and a few other exclusives like Nioh and Horizon have me considering picking some form of ps4 up.
I know this isn't quite the right thread to ask but was there ever any consensus on if a PS4 pro at $400 was worth it? Amazon's got slims with uncharted 4 and last of us (I'm probably about the last person who still hasn't played it) for $229 today and it's real tempting. I do most of my gaming on PC, but FF12/15 and a few other exclusives like Nioh and Horizon have me considering picking some form of ps4 up.
$229 is a steal for that price. I'd say pick that up... I have a regular and it works just fine.
Got Zodiac Age. Really, it should have been cheaper.
Even with the improvements? I figure $40 (prime discount) isn't too bad.
$40 isn't bad and should have been the normal price. $50 being the normal price is absurd.
Luckily, I have Best Buy Gamer's Club, plus $10 in reward certificates, plus I just happened to find $20 on the ground this morning at the train station! So $10 was a very good price.
Got Zodiac Age. Really, it should have been cheaper.
Even with the improvements? I figure $40 (prime discount) isn't too bad.
$40 isn't bad and should have been the normal price. $50 being the normal price is absurd.
Luckily, I have Best Buy Gamer's Club, plus $10 in reward certificates, plus I just happened to find $20 on the ground this morning at the train station! So $10 was a very good price.
I did have some rewards cash back on it, but my card info was out of date and I had to switch to another card.
Posts
It had the opposite effect on me because all of the major players in the world are off-screen and largely inaccessible.
There's an Empire, but it largely exists in an imaginary way. Similarly, the kingdom Noctis is a prince of. It's as though there's a conflict between the US and some other country, but the only part of the world you can ever know is Rhode Island. Everyone talks about the Empire, but it might as well not exist given how little the game does with it, both as a nation state and as an idea.
Regarding the 'open' world....
That part was pretty cool, my favorite random image was probably this picture because it was so odd.
Lots of creepy shit going on with Necromancers, Laser Slimes and Undead Ronins
Followed by Ignis being placed right in the center of the shot doing a casual anime'esque "Let me adjust my glasses, shits about to get real" moment.
Yep. No time is really used to set up anything or anyone, or really do anything of substance in the first half. No one really talks about anything meaningful. Your spending a lot of your time collecting royal weapons (half of which are entirely optional!) and summons, but these are pretty much trinkets and goals which feel as though they have no real bearing on the plot at all. We're just TOLD they're important.
And when things go to shit in the second half, we're just suddenly supposed to care about everything, and this Doomsday Thing is happening, and This character is actually THAT. And it's just too much, too late.
The way this all plays out is in a very weird situation. I want to give the team props for desperately trying to choose which plot to tell and which to sadly cut, because that's how the situation felt to me. On the other hand, given this game's development time, this should never have been a thing in the first place. All that time, and they never once had the entirety of the plot nailed down. And that's just sad.
The whole first 5 or 6 chapters of the game are completely meaningless and unimportant. And those chapters are where they obviously invested 90% of their development time.
The fall of the kingdom and theft of the crystal
A really vague notion of a quest (Noctis needs the weapons because they're magic and powerful, and the Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan blessings for reasons never adequately explained until near the end of the game)
A destination to go to (the place where Luna is... I can't even remember the name)
Introduces us to Ardyn
Sets up the idea that the Empire is experimenting on people
Tries (and fails, IMO) to make us care about Noctis and Luna
But, that's like 5 minutes worth of actual story. The bulk of the time is spent just farting around with no urgency. And that leads to major issues in terms of tone and characterization, like:
Gladio scolding Noctis for being petulant/lazy/whatever, even though Noctis is essentially a silent protagonist until that point
Prompto having a heart-to-heart with Noctis on the roof which is never referenced again, nor does it impact either character in any discernible way
Ignis just being sort of existing as a smarmy know-it-all, with his one moment actually used to smooth things over with Noctis and Gladio rather than make him into someone noteworthy
A whole bunch of unearned, desperate attempts at stirring up feelings like Luna's murder, the last camp out, and the ending with Luna and Noctis, all of which just fall completely flat IMO.
The first half of the game should've been spent fleshing everything out, especially the characters. The camping and stays at inns were perfect opportunities to have character moments. The in-car radio a perfect avenue for an actual news/talk radio station that fleshes out the world rather than reports after story beats that don't really expand on anything. I mean, shit, Noctis has a smart phone.... there should've been an in-game internet he could access. And it's not like any of these suggestions are unheard of. GTA has been providing these things for years.
Also, limiting the game to the group's POV was an interesting choice, but it makes the heroes feel incompetent. They spend the game always at least a step, if not way more, behind. There's not even a real victory at the end... everything goes according to Ardyn's plan, and he's (mostly) fine with Noctis killing him because it means Noctis dies as well. And that, to me, is utterly unsatisfying. I'd rather play as Ardyn than impotent heroes.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Exactly. I can forgive BotW for being a huge landmass that's sparsely populated because it's a post-apocalyptic tale. The world was fucked over 100 years prior, and the survivors are basically just past the point of licking their wounds when disaster looms again. And between the memories and ruins strewn about, there's enough of a hint about what things used to be like before the fall.
Similarly, Skyrim makes a lot of sense as a setting. It's a harsh, unforgiving land. The warmer climates have more people, but there are regular encounters with various NPCs on the road, especially, again, in the warmer areas.
XV's setting makes no goddamn sense in any way.
We can see a huge city. It's close, maybe 5-10 miles away, perhaps even closer. Yet, the area where the open world segment takes place is inexplicably sparse. There's exactly one town (Lestallum), and it's pretty obviously created in such a way to combat loading times (why, hello winding narrow alleys and streets). The rest is:
1 small beach resort (Galdin Quay)
1 unique gas station (Hammerhead)
1 other unique area (lighthouse/dock)
A host of cut-and-paste gas stations with campers
There's a well-maintained road system, yet no cars. It's your bros, and maybe (maybe) one other car on the road at any given time. The bros have smartphones, but none of the other locations even have TV, despite being mere miles away from a modern metropolis. We learn about hunters who keep towns (er... town) safe from daemons at night, yet we only meet Dave and one other female hunter NPC. There are no hunters to be found at night, none patrolling near gas stations, nothing. And on and on and on....
It's just a disjointed setting in a ton of different ways. It's obvious that the developers simply mashed a bunch of shit together without thinking about the connective tissue necessary to create a legitimate feeling of place. And that setting dissonance just permeates the entire game, and is highlighted by there being nothing to do outside of fishing and optional dungeons. It's actually less meat than what IX - the last world map game - had (Chocobo Hot and Cold, Mognet, Tetra Master, optional dungeons, ultimate weapons, etc.), just prettier.
It's just this large, mostly empty space with nothing to do. A waste of time and effort for both the player and developers.
I won't argue that it couldn't have been better, or that I didn't want more, because I definitely did. But as far as the actual structure (sort of a backwards FFVI), I'd love to see a better execution of that in the future.
But only by a month.
How the fuck was that almost an entire year ago.
Oh weird, google said the first release was 8-17 thus my response!
Stupid google.
Oh god that was the dumbest thing.
Scathe was so bad about that.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I'm fairly certain it's been removed.
They are if you go back later for the hunts
I spent a good 30 minutes trying to navigate around lol.
Huh, never knew that.
Of course, at the point where I got to Altissa, I was trying to end the misery as quickly as possible.
What's the ability queue? I don't remember this.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Basically a limit on how many graphically-intensive spells could be in play at once. There were 8 points available, and anything that exceeded that had to wait before it could be executed. The best spells like Holy and Flare took up all 8 points by themselves, so they basically put all other spells on hold whenever they were cast.
This meant having more than one person playing lage worked out poorly. Two people buffed to hell autoattacking while you used the third for magic is how I beat most stuff in the game.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
$229 is a steal for that price. I'd say pick that up... I have a regular and it works just fine.
Even with the improvements? I figure $40 (prime discount) isn't too bad.
$40 isn't bad and should have been the normal price. $50 being the normal price is absurd.
Luckily, I have Best Buy Gamer's Club, plus $10 in reward certificates, plus I just happened to find $20 on the ground this morning at the train station! So $10 was a very good price.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I did have some rewards cash back on it, but my card info was out of date and I had to switch to another card.