The thing with Smogon is they do have their own metagame within the community. A build i suggested and is popular because it counters or compliments another popular build. without that the tiers kind of break down a bit. there is also the whole thing of tiers being based on use and not actually power, which is why a lot of strong fire types don't get play because stealth rocks is popular in smogon which greatly reduces fire types. In a metagame with less stealth rocks fire is a lot more viable.
yeah but stealth rock is popular because it's an excellent move
that depends on how you define "excellent"
"softens up targets, wears down stall teams, severely weakens many pokemon, breaks sturdy and focus sash" seems like it'd reach most standards of "excellent" to me
I think it's the third thing that bothers me. The rest of it I'm fine with, and see the point and necessity of
the most frustrating element to me is that they still do that thing where they change available TMs or what pokemon can learn what TMs over generations, but still let you import pokemon with those moves
which means that what I'm assuming is supposed to be a balance change completely fails and actually does nothing but raise the barrier to entry for people that want those moves on their pokemon
if you don't want everything and its brother to have stealth rock then you should strip it out of imported pokemon's movesets if they can't learn it in the game they're moving to
The question arises from a conversation SilverWind and I were having while taking a drive
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
the most frustrating element to me is that they still do that thing where they change available TMs or what pokemon can learn what TMs over generations, but still let you import pokemon with those moves
which means that what I'm assuming is supposed to be a balance change completely fails and actually does nothing but raise the barrier to entry for people that want those moves on their pokemon
if you don't want everything and its brother to have stealth rock then you should strip it out of imported pokemon's movesets if they can't learn it in the game they're moving to
I bought a copy of Emerald and played all the way to the Battle Frontier just so I could get a Shuckle and teach it Defense Curl for an incredibly gimmicky and practically useless Power Trick + Defense Curl + Rollout combo, since Emerald was the only game it could learn Defense Curl in. That was a solid 20 hours or so of my life and by no metric was it "worth it".
The question arises from a conversation SilverWind and I were having while taking a drive
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
The question arises from a conversation SilverWind and I were having while taking a drive
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
Oh absolutely all three have fairy subtype
Link needs an ability that's a Fairy-equivalent of Water Absorb, so he heals HP when hit with Fairy attacks.
The question arises from a conversation SilverWind and I were having while taking a drive
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
Link is functionally a ninja/archaeologist. Ganondorf really likes Substitute. Pretty big on mindcontrol, too. And he's weak to stupid distractions.
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darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
OoT Gannondorf is dark/fairy but when he evolves into WW Gannondorf he becomes dark/ghost.
Samus is... steel/fighting? Focus on S.Atk with the Mega Launcher ability for all those good good beam-like moves
Ridley is dragon/flying, Meta Ridley is dragon steel
Kraid would be dragon/grass? Because it's in a grassy area? Maybe just dragon
Phantoon is ghost, maybe ghost/fire
I want to say Draygon is water/dragon but that feels like too many dragons
Mother Brain is psychic and then psychic/steel when it gets its metal body
Samus is... steel/fighting? With the Mega Launcher ability for all those good good beam-like moves
Ridley is dragon/flying, Meta Ridley is dragon steel
Kraid would be dragon/grass? Because it's in a grassy area? Maybe just dragon
Phantoon is ghost, maybe ghost/fire
I want to say Draygon is water/dragon but that feels like too many dragons
Mother Brain is psychic and then psychic/steel when it gets its metal body
Chozo would be flying/psychic
dark samus would be steel/dark
metroids are bug/flying (that fits almost too well)
So I stopped thinking for about 5 seconds and saved after getting my Type:Null. It's got the Bold Nature, which I guess isn't the absolute worst and realistically I'm never going to use it in competitive because I'm sure Silvally gets the banhammer if it isn't already.
But dangit I even saved right before, all I had to do was NOT constantly save! Curse you, fear of losing progress!
Samus is... steel/fighting? With the Mega Launcher ability for all those good good beam-like moves
Ridley is dragon/flying, Meta Ridley is dragon steel
Kraid would be dragon/grass? Because it's in a grassy area? Maybe just dragon
Phantoon is ghost, maybe ghost/fire
I want to say Draygon is water/dragon but that feels like too many dragons
Mother Brain is psychic and then psychic/steel when it gets its metal body
Chozo would be flying/psychic
dark samus would be steel/dark
metroids are bug/flying (that fits almost too well)
nightmare is steel/ghost
Dark Samus spends much of her existence being mostly ethereal so Ghost/Dark would make more sense, imo.
OmnipotentBagel on
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
The question arises from a conversation SilverWind and I were having while taking a drive
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
If consider steel for Link for the same reason I gave Vega steel (the weapon)
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited November 2016
stealth rock was the start of me losing interest in competitive pokemon, it's just so fucking annoying to deal with since there's so few spinners to choose from and saying defog is a counter feels dumb when most defoggers lose most of their health coming in to deal with it
and yes, it is possible to have more granular systems than just "smogon or nintendo"; my old PO server was its own community with its own forums, and while it started from Smogon rules they diversified and made further balance decisions on their own, like banning Shadow Tag Chandelure but still letting you use Flash Fire Chandelure and the like (and made these decisions quicker than Smogon because we had a smaller council & community to consult) and also we had the item clause which I've shown a bias towards before
like, it's not EASY to maintain your own tierlist, but if you really want a better experience than what Smogon can provide it is possible
that said my baseline for any league to actually be enjoyable is just immediately ban all pokemon with a BST > 550. They're just too far above curve, a you-can-only-fight-fire-with-fire thing because they're too good and too well rounded for anything but mirror matches and hyper specific counters with lower stat totals to counter them. There's always going to be an upper tier, but when you lower the top tier so that it doesn't include those that are great at everything, there's a better flow because counters are easier to come across.
and then you spot ban the things that are still particularly problematic and every team is better off with it than without it, like aegislash
I'm also a big fan of the metagame balance philosophy of "if this mechanic invalidates an entire set of options when team/deck/whatever building it's a bad mechanic", so boot out stealth rock since it just means only the best bug and fire types can even be considered an option
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I think it's the third thing that bothers me. The rest of it I'm fine with, and see the point and necessity of
i used to hate it but at some point that's just the way things are
plus defog makes it a lot weaker than it used to be
http://www.audioentropy.com/
or at least a partial form
is this... gonna be important later
which means that what I'm assuming is supposed to be a balance change completely fails and actually does nothing but raise the barrier to entry for people that want those moves on their pokemon
if you don't want everything and its brother to have stealth rock then you should strip it out of imported pokemon's movesets if they can't learn it in the game they're moving to
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Huh, I just checked and yeah Aegislash is allowed.
I guess most people running prebank teams on showdown are those who want to mess around with the new stuff and that's why I haven't seen him.
not really, it's just a neat pokemon you can use if you want
http://www.audioentropy.com/
The Fear: Poison
The End: Grass
The Fury: Fire/Flying
The Sorrow: Ghost
Volgin: Electric, evolves into Ghost/Fire
Same as Phione.
Dio - Dark/Ice or Dark/Ghost
Joesph Joestar - Grass/Dark
Kojo Jotaro Dark/Fighting
Josuke Higashikata Fairy/Dragon
man this is hard
If we monotyped them then Link, Ganon, and Zelda would probably be Fighting, Dark, and Psychic respectively
But Zelda really feels like a Psychic/Fairy
And if we put him in a vaccum, Ganondorf feels like a Dark/Fairy, though SilverWind argues he's Dark/Ghost since he's got the whole deathless thing going on
Link is definitely fightman, but Fighting/Fairy also feels appropriate, possibly with a Hidden Ability where his attacks ignore immunities???
I bought a copy of Emerald and played all the way to the Battle Frontier just so I could get a Shuckle and teach it Defense Curl for an incredibly gimmicky and practically useless Power Trick + Defense Curl + Rollout combo, since Emerald was the only game it could learn Defense Curl in. That was a solid 20 hours or so of my life and by no metric was it "worth it".
Oh absolutely all three have fairy subtype
Ryu: fighting
Ken: fighting/fire
Chun-Li: water
Cammy: bug/flying
Guile: fighting/flying
M Bison: dark/psychic
Balrog: dark
Vega: steel
FANG: poison/dark
Akuma: dark/fighting
Blanka: electric
Link needs an ability that's a Fairy-equivalent of Water Absorb, so he heals HP when hit with Fairy attacks.
That supposed to be "Kujo Jotaro"?
William Antonio Zepelli: Grass/Psychic. Moves include Solar Blade, Psycho Cut, Heal Pulse, and Healing Wish.
and phione
You can assign an ability or make one up, if you want
Link is functionally a ninja/archaeologist. Ganondorf really likes Substitute. Pretty big on mindcontrol, too. And he's weak to stupid distractions.
Isn't Shun Goku Satsu Fairy-type?
False Swipe.
Ridley is dragon/flying, Meta Ridley is dragon steel
Kraid would be dragon/grass? Because it's in a grassy area? Maybe just dragon
Phantoon is ghost, maybe ghost/fire
I want to say Draygon is water/dragon but that feels like too many dragons
Mother Brain is psychic and then psychic/steel when it gets its metal body
Chozo would be flying/psychic
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
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dark samus would be steel/dark
metroids are bug/flying (that fits almost too well)
nightmare is steel/ghost
But dangit I even saved right before, all I had to do was NOT constantly save! Curse you, fear of losing progress!
http://www.audioentropy.com/
its stat total is pretty low and it effectively can't hold items
Eviolite Type:Null is a hell of a normal type Pokémon
AJ Styles - Fighting/Flying
Seth Rollins - Fighting/Dark
Roman Reigns - Fighting/Rock
Dean Ambrose - Fighting/Dark
Kevin Owens - Fighting/Poison
Sami Zayn - Fighting/Normal
Bray Wyatt - Fighting/Ghost
Daniel Bryan - Fighting/Dragon
Becky Lynch - Fighting/Fire
Charlotte - Fighting/Dark
Sasha Banks - Fighting/Steel
Shinsuke Nakamura - Fighting
Samoa Joe - Fighting
His ability is either Cursed Body, or a new ability that can cause Freeze on contact.
Stats heavily leaning towards speed and Attack, with a healthy amount of HP as well.
Dark Samus spends much of her existence being mostly ethereal so Ghost/Dark would make more sense, imo.
hm hm yes that does seem pretty good
If consider steel for Link for the same reason I gave Vega steel (the weapon)
Or maybe just a unique ABI
I have no idea. I had to look that up to know that it's the Japanese name for Raging Demon. How is it fairy?
and yes, it is possible to have more granular systems than just "smogon or nintendo"; my old PO server was its own community with its own forums, and while it started from Smogon rules they diversified and made further balance decisions on their own, like banning Shadow Tag Chandelure but still letting you use Flash Fire Chandelure and the like (and made these decisions quicker than Smogon because we had a smaller council & community to consult) and also we had the item clause which I've shown a bias towards before
like, it's not EASY to maintain your own tierlist, but if you really want a better experience than what Smogon can provide it is possible
that said my baseline for any league to actually be enjoyable is just immediately ban all pokemon with a BST > 550. They're just too far above curve, a you-can-only-fight-fire-with-fire thing because they're too good and too well rounded for anything but mirror matches and hyper specific counters with lower stat totals to counter them. There's always going to be an upper tier, but when you lower the top tier so that it doesn't include those that are great at everything, there's a better flow because counters are easier to come across.
and then you spot ban the things that are still particularly problematic and every team is better off with it than without it, like aegislash
I'm also a big fan of the metagame balance philosophy of "if this mechanic invalidates an entire set of options when team/deck/whatever building it's a bad mechanic", so boot out stealth rock since it just means only the best bug and fire types can even be considered an option