Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
I thought that was what we were supposed to think?
It's debatable whether this is actual authorial intent, because the show undermines the narrative of Matt being a self-absorbed violent shithead with how totally awesome he is at it
I call this the Breaking Bad Problem
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
I thought that was what we were supposed to think?
I really do not think that this is how the show presents itself.
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simonwolfi can feel a differencetoday, a differenceRegistered Userregular
I'm going to add "have you ever killed someone" to the list of questions I'm asking the JET Programme applicants I'll be interviewing
if they give you an answer besides a straight "No" then you side-eye that shit something fierce
Watch him get a war veteran who completely breaks down at that question and now simon feels just awful and awkward
as a rule you shouldn't actually ask someone if they've killed someone
because the answer for the overwhelming majority of people is "No", and if it's anything besides no you've just waltzed into an ugly situation of either dealing with a person who is possibly some kind of sociopath, or a person who has had a very complicated life and likely has really complex feelings about their answer.
That knowledge doesn't generally benefit you or make the social situation better
How else am I supposed to know whether they can join my zombie fighting troupe and whether my two further questions apply?
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
he's wracked by guilt and beating out his frustrations on criminals while attempting to atone for his sins.
the punisher is the perfect counter-point to his character because that's a man with very similar skills and ambitions who was not afforded the same comforts or pragmatism.
it's not even some big specific guilt. just general existence type of stuff where he feels better going to sleep at night after having punched a face and being punched in the face but he actually feels like he is making a difference. Matt Murdock does it for himself just as much as he does it for everyone else.
even tho i was exempt from conscripted service, i spent a while after therapy today trying to track down the idf's visual requirements, and it looks like they are slacker than i realized for non combat roles
*runs from problems*
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I'm saying if any of you idiots think people don't notice you or care, they do. We may have minor cliques but this isn't high school.
This from the guy who literally told me I'm not allowed to post in this thread on account of being insufficiently vetted.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
A guy who spends his free time defending people is such a monster. What a total asshole. Better if he just sprayed a bunch of bullets and took down the bad guys!
Matt Murdock angsts a whole lot about the idea of premeditated, intentional murder.
And there are people in his life who call him out on being a violent vigilante, but mostly on a level of how dangerous it is to him personally or how it's a risk he shouldn't personally be taking.
Authorial intent paints Murdock as an adrenaline junkie who resolves a lot of personal issues through violence, that he does heroic things for sometimes kinda shitty and selfish reasons
But that those things are still basically heroic and that we should think they're completely bad-ass
This is where I think the show breaks down and kinda implodes from its own gritty realism, because irl that person would be a bad guy
Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
Well...
I don't remember if it's S1 or S2, but Matt straight-up tells a guy he's torturing, "It's not just that I want to fill the gap where the police can't or won't go. I'm not just beating you up for justice. I like it,"
And then he, like, drops the dude off of a roof or something.
So yeah, the show does tell the audience up front that they're rooting for a sociopath.
Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
I thought that was what we were supposed to think?
It's debatable whether this is actual authorial intent, because the show undermines the narrative of Matt being a self-absorbed violent shithead with how totally awesome he is at it
I call this the Breaking Bad Problem
Personally, I think that's what we're meant to think about Murdock. Unfortunately it gets undermined a bit by the genre and storyline trappings. They can't do 100% realism otherwise the entire premise would fall apart whenever DD hit someone for real.
Andromeda is going to ignore your choices from the original trilogy, including the ending. Andromeda is a new galaxy, and everything that happened in ME3 only affected the Milky Way.
Bioware has steadfastly refused to declare that any of the ME3 endings were canonical. If, in some time in the future they choose to pick one to be the true official ending, I would expect them to pick Red, because that's the most distinct of the three.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
Aren't they going to be really surprised, though, when they arrive and
everything is hybrid robot/organic?
visiblehowl
I'm not sure if your post is a joke, but
Andromeda is going to ignore your choices from the original trilogy, including the ending. Andromeda is a new galaxy, and everything that happened in ME3 only affected the Milky Way.
Bioware has steadfastly refused to declare that any of the ME3 endings were canonical. If, in some time in the future they choose to pick one to be the true official ending, I would expect them to pick Red, because that's the most distinct of the three.
Definitely a joke.
Although yeah, I didn't think of that until after I'd posted it.
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
I'm saying if any of you idiots think people don't notice you or care, they do. We may have minor cliques but this isn't high school.
This from the guy who literally told me I'm not allowed to post in this thread on account of being insufficiently vetted.
I apologize for that. I hadn't seen you post in here much ever and had an impression you just came in to stir shit up and leave. Now I know you post often and take an interest in everyone.
It wasn't appropriate either way.
OnTheLastCastle on
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I think we as a group sometimes interact with each other in ways that a person unfamiliar with the dynamic might perceive as hostile or cliquish.
and maybe that is something we can work on improving about ourselves
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
In general, I think vigilantism is amoral and I'm pretty harsh on it as a concept.
The more realistic a show tries to be with its portrayal of the sort of person who resorts to vigilantism, the more I expect from it in terms of exploring how harmful vigilantism is and how it's ultimately bad
This is super double extra true when a vigilante's reason for vigilantism is because they... want to? For like, personal reasons? And not because they have a specific superpower or something and that there are threats only they can handle on account of that.
Luke Cage is really good at this entire business, Daredevil kinda fuckin' sucks at it
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Matt Murdock angsts a whole lot about the idea of premeditated, intentional murder.
And there are people in his life who call him out on being a violent vigilante, but mostly on a level of how dangerous it is to him personally or how it's a risk he shouldn't personally be taking.
Authorial intent paints Murdock as an adrenaline junkie who resolves a lot of personal issues through violence, that he does heroic things for sometimes kinda shitty and selfish reasons
But that those things are still basically heroic and that we should think they're completely bad-ass
This is where I think the show breaks down and kinda implodes from its own gritty realism, because irl that person would be a bad guy
Plus the narrative paints Murdock's role as necessary and by extension his critics as shortsighted and wrong.
It can't have it both ways!
Matt Murdock angsts a whole lot about the idea of premeditated, intentional murder.
And there are people in his life who call him out on being a violent vigilante, but mostly on a level of how dangerous it is to him personally or how it's a risk he shouldn't personally be taking.
Authorial intent paints Murdock as an adrenaline junkie who resolves a lot of personal issues through violence, that he does heroic things for sometimes kinda shitty and selfish reasons
But that those things are still basically heroic and that we should think they're completely bad-ass
This is where I think the show breaks down and kinda implodes from its own gritty realism, because irl that person would be a bad guy
I will say the show delivered the best
reveal for a character discovering their friend is a super-hero.
A guy who spends his free time defending people is such a monster. What a total asshole. Better if he just sprayed a bunch of bullets and took down the bad guys!
Man, I spotted the skfm from day maybe 2 and I still valued his hanging out. He did drop some heavy sadness on us. I felt bad not many other people know who it was cause family was king for that guy.
I'm saying if any of you idiots think people don't notice you or care, they do. We may have minor cliques but this isn't high school.
What was the sadness he dropped
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
I think we as a group sometimes interact with each other in ways that a person unfamiliar with the dynamic might perceive as hostile or cliquish.
and maybe that is something we can work on improving about ourselves
Yes I see in my post cambiata quoted I said "idiots", and I would not say that without affection. I meant knuckleheads who should know better they were appreciated. I see the error.
Which I do think my general phrase if you idiots think we don't care made clear but still. I can do better.
OnTheLastCastle on
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
we tend to go for the jugular sometimes and I can imagine how it looks to someone whose first glance at chat is a page making fun of certain people's kinks and whatnot.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Man, I spotted the skfm from day maybe 2 and I still valued his hanging out. He did drop some heavy sadness on us. I felt bad not many other people know who it was cause family was king for that guy.
I'm saying if any of you idiots think people don't notice you or care, they do. We may have minor cliques but this isn't high school.
What was the sadness he dropped
His wife miscarried and it has been really tough on them both. Their marriage is suffering a lot. They're trying for #2
It's why I really dislike super gritty and realistic portrayals of Batman that try to downplay the superheroic elements and the absurdity of the foes he faces (see: the Nolan films)
Because that Batman is a self-absorbed jerk-ass who uses every tool and advantage at his disposal to satisfy his own fucked up problems and urges and inflicts horrific violence on people because... he has problems?
He's not heroic, he's a narcissistic jerk who believes only he can do what he does and shit and it's all a bunch of fucking fart noises.
Superhero Batman who lives in an absurd superhero world? Okay sure.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Man, I spotted the skfm from day maybe 2 and I still valued his hanging out. He did drop some heavy sadness on us. I felt bad not many other people know who it was cause family was king for that guy.
I'm saying if any of you idiots think people don't notice you or care, they do. We may have minor cliques but this isn't high school.
What was the sadness he dropped
His wife recently miscarried
bloodyroarxx on
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
It's why I really dislike super gritty and realistic portrayals of Batman that try to downplay the superheroic elements and the absurdity of the foes he faces (see: the Nolan films)
Because that Batman is a self-absorbed jerk-ass who uses every tool and advantage at his disposal to satisfy his own fucked up problems and urges and inflicts horrific violence on people because... he has problems?
He's not heroic, he's a narcissistic jerk who believes only he can do what he does and shit and it's all a bunch of fucking fart noises.
Superhero Batman who lives in an absurd superhero world? Okay sure.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I feel the opposite , I want to revel in the horror of what is portrayed. If we're going to be fascists we may as well make it uncomfortable.
I will be honest I got suspicious of the recent alt and their true identity pretty much immediately based largely on their expressed opinions on games and game design, especially for RPGs
It's such a particular and uncommon set of opinions, even for this forum, that it made my eyes narrow immediately
I wasn't the only person who noticed, someone called him out by the name at the time.
Daredevil is only watchable if you accept the basic premise that Matt Murdock is a shitty person and a huge hypocrite and you're intended to see him that way
If you try to view him as a straight heroic figure it implodes on its own ontological shittiness
It is okay for the protagonist of a show be a bad person
Just gotta be honest with yourself about that.
I thought that was what we were supposed to think?
Season 2 especially compares him multiple times to an alcoholic
Multiple people think he's pushing them away because of his drug or alcohol problem
They're wrong on the specifics, but not on the selfish harm he's causing to people near him
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
It's why I really dislike super gritty and realistic portrayals of Batman that try to downplay the superheroic elements and the absurdity of the foes he faces (see: the Nolan films)
Because that Batman is a self-absorbed jerk-ass who uses every tool and advantage at his disposal to satisfy his own fucked up problems and urges and inflicts horrific violence on people because... he has problems?
He's not heroic, he's a narcissistic jerk who believes only he can do what he does and shit and it's all a bunch of fucking fart noises.
Superhero Batman who lives in an absurd superhero world? Okay sure.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I feel the opposite , I want to revel in the horror of what is portrayed.
I agree that I like the idea of Batman as a broken person fighting other broken people. which is something that good writers explore.
It's why I really dislike super gritty and realistic portrayals of Batman that try to downplay the superheroic elements and the absurdity of the foes he faces (see: the Nolan films)
Because that Batman is a self-absorbed jerk-ass who uses every tool and advantage at his disposal to satisfy his own fucked up problems and urges and inflicts horrific violence on people because... he has problems?
He's not heroic, he's a narcissistic jerk who believes only he can do what he does and shit and it's all a bunch of fucking fart noises.
Superhero Batman who lives in an absurd superhero world? Okay sure.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I feel the opposite , I want to revel in the horror of what is portrayed.
That, imo, only works if it's being portrayed as horrible
Like, I'm not a huge fan of DKR as a comic but I will give credit that it portrayed its version of Batman as nakedly fascist and self-absorbed and shit-headed and cruel
Well, at least until Frank Miller got older and got the brain-spiders and decided that fascism was totally awesome...
I will be honest I got suspicious of the recent alt and their true identity pretty much immediately based largely on their expressed opinions on games and game design, especially for RPGs
It's such a particular and uncommon set of opinions, even for this forum, that it made my eyes narrow immediately
I wasn't the only person who noticed, someone called him out by the name at the time.
Posts
Coyotes are allowed to go to college, y'know.
It's debatable whether this is actual authorial intent, because the show undermines the narrative of Matt being a self-absorbed violent shithead with how totally awesome he is at it
I call this the Breaking Bad Problem
I really do not think that this is how the show presents itself.
OBAMA'S AMERICA
A fair question.
Except I think our local pack got wiped out by wolves
Yay wolves
So much better
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
How else am I supposed to know whether they can join my zombie fighting troupe and whether my two further questions apply?
um wolves are totally better
you don't see hundreds of nerds wearing coyote shirts, do you?
he's wracked by guilt and beating out his frustrations on criminals while attempting to atone for his sins.
the punisher is the perfect counter-point to his character because that's a man with very similar skills and ambitions who was not afforded the same comforts or pragmatism.
it's not even some big specific guilt. just general existence type of stuff where he feels better going to sleep at night after having punched a face and being punched in the face but he actually feels like he is making a difference. Matt Murdock does it for himself just as much as he does it for everyone else.
which is a nice change.
*runs from problems*
This from the guy who literally told me I'm not allowed to post in this thread on account of being insufficiently vetted.
And there are people in his life who call him out on being a violent vigilante, but mostly on a level of how dangerous it is to him personally or how it's a risk he shouldn't personally be taking.
Authorial intent paints Murdock as an adrenaline junkie who resolves a lot of personal issues through violence, that he does heroic things for sometimes kinda shitty and selfish reasons
But that those things are still basically heroic and that we should think they're completely bad-ass
This is where I think the show breaks down and kinda implodes from its own gritty realism, because irl that person would be a bad guy
Well...
And then he, like, drops the dude off of a roof or something.
So yeah, the show does tell the audience up front that they're rooting for a sociopath.
Personally, I think that's what we're meant to think about Murdock. Unfortunately it gets undermined a bit by the genre and storyline trappings. They can't do 100% realism otherwise the entire premise would fall apart whenever DD hit someone for real.
Haven't you been here longer than Castle?
@visiblehowl
I'm not sure if your post is a joke, but
Bioware has steadfastly refused to declare that any of the ME3 endings were canonical. If, in some time in the future they choose to pick one to be the true official ending, I would expect them to pick Red, because that's the most distinct of the three.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Definitely a joke.
Although yeah, I didn't think of that until after I'd posted it.
I apologize for that. I hadn't seen you post in here much ever and had an impression you just came in to stir shit up and leave. Now I know you post often and take an interest in everyone.
It wasn't appropriate either way.
and maybe that is something we can work on improving about ourselves
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The more realistic a show tries to be with its portrayal of the sort of person who resorts to vigilantism, the more I expect from it in terms of exploring how harmful vigilantism is and how it's ultimately bad
This is super double extra true when a vigilante's reason for vigilantism is because they... want to? For like, personal reasons? And not because they have a specific superpower or something and that there are threats only they can handle on account of that.
Luke Cage is really good at this entire business, Daredevil kinda fuckin' sucks at it
Plus the narrative paints Murdock's role as necessary and by extension his critics as shortsighted and wrong.
It can't have it both ways!
I will say the show delivered the best
WTF
?
What was the sadness he dropped
Cambiata's never been as good at shitposting as many of us are
Yes I see in my post cambiata quoted I said "idiots", and I would not say that without affection. I meant knuckleheads who should know better they were appreciated. I see the error.
Which I do think my general phrase if you idiots think we don't care made clear but still. I can do better.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I dunno, she can lay down the law pretty good when she wants to. That's why I'm glad I don't get into arguments with her. lol
His wife miscarried and it has been really tough on them both. Their marriage is suffering a lot. They're trying for #2
Because that Batman is a self-absorbed jerk-ass who uses every tool and advantage at his disposal to satisfy his own fucked up problems and urges and inflicts horrific violence on people because... he has problems?
He's not heroic, he's a narcissistic jerk who believes only he can do what he does and shit and it's all a bunch of fucking fart noises.
Superhero Batman who lives in an absurd superhero world? Okay sure.
But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Well that's a wound reopened
I feel the opposite , I want to revel in the horror of what is portrayed. If we're going to be fascists we may as well make it uncomfortable.
It's such a particular and uncommon set of opinions, even for this forum, that it made my eyes narrow immediately
I wasn't the only person who noticed, someone called him out by the name at the time.
Season 2 especially compares him multiple times to an alcoholic
Multiple people think he's pushing them away because of his drug or alcohol problem
They're wrong on the specifics, but not on the selfish harm he's causing to people near him
I agree that I like the idea of Batman as a broken person fighting other broken people. which is something that good writers explore.
I do not like nolan's version of batman.
That, imo, only works if it's being portrayed as horrible
Like, I'm not a huge fan of DKR as a comic but I will give credit that it portrayed its version of Batman as nakedly fascist and self-absorbed and shit-headed and cruel
Well, at least until Frank Miller got older and got the brain-spiders and decided that fascism was totally awesome...
Eddy with the goodfellas was shockingly on point