Whenever games hide swathes of story behind difficulty level or skill walls or one-time missable events, it makes me just want to watch whatever I missed on YouTube.
Cave Story in particular is pretty bad about this, I'm absolutely confident that I would never have found all the tasks needed to reach the secret ending without internet help.
Buuuuut I also forgive the game for a lot of its faults, because a) it's over a decade old, b) was created by one guy, and c) really kickstarted the entire indie game movement as we now know it. If it was released today it might not necessarily be welcomed as anything special, but it was important and very influential at the time.
I can't even find games to put on my Wish List because I'm a jobber.
I need a new website that talks about and reviews new/upcoming games so I know what's even out or on the horizon. Lately, my entire game knowledge has come from either this thread or what people are currently streaming on Twitch. However the latter, it's always pretty much just for a day if one big streamer plays something new. Otherwise it's all League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone or Counterstrike.
+2
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
Whenever games hide swathes of story behind difficulty level or skill walls or one-time missable events, it makes me just want to watch whatever I missed on YouTube.
I don't mind skill walls, if they're appropriately marked or you're told about them. "Hey, doing [difficult as shit thing X] will make stuff happen!" is pretty much an assured way to make Drascin head there and do Difficult As Shit Thing X.
But making things into completely missable events, which are often nonsense, is bullshit. I adore Cave Story, but the requirements for its secret ending make no fucking sense and are straight out of a Sierra adventure game, and are incredibly easy to fuck up to boot.
@Karrde1842
I was waiting for a 3d card handme down from another PA forumer, but its been like 6 months and I forgot whom it was.
I guess they never bought that 1070 or 1080.
In steam news, I beat tonight.
Decent game, good sound track, good pixel art.
I'll probably not play it again, in hopes to finish more of my never ending backlog.
This time im going to finally play Far Cry 3. So far - it's very good! It's not surprising, every game that gives me options to be stealthy deserves my attention.
What's more, as an owner of laptop im not spoiled my ultra HD 4K graphics, so game from 2012 is still very pretty for me.
Hey there Steam thread! In the spirit of the season, I have a video card that needs a home. I recently upgraded and don't need this little guy anymore. It's an EVGA GeForce 660 Ti. A couple years old, but it'll run most stuff just great! I was playing Fallout 4 no problems (granted, not at high settings). I'll handle everything, I just need to know where to send it! So......any takers? @ or PM me!
Whenever games hide swathes of story behind difficulty level or skill walls or one-time missable events, it makes me just want to watch whatever I missed on YouTube.
Cave Story in particular is pretty bad about this, I'm absolutely confident that I would never have found all the tasks needed to reach the secret ending without internet help.
Buuuuut I also forgive the game for a lot of its faults, because a) it's over a decade old, b) was created by one guy, and c) really kickstarted the entire indie game movement as we now know it. If it was released today it might not necessarily be welcomed as anything special, but it was important and very influential at the time.
That is actually my main issue. You have a VERY slim chance of doing all those events correctly without looking it up. Unless you like replaying games a hundred times to look for things.
I do think for the story that yeah, many people would be best youtubing it. I personally don't mind that, but I also don't mind extreme difficulty either.
operation:make santa's list seems to be continuing, as @destroyah87 wants me to drown a watery death (in subnautica) and @shdwcaster feels that gravity is something to toy with (thanks for Defy Gravity)
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Yeah, the kind of thing I'm thinking of is like, where the SNES game PLOK! locked the game behind Normal; it had an Easy mode, but that only went up to the first boss. Then it kicked you out and said, "fuck you, play on Normal". Which really was hard mode, and hard was impossible, considering the jank and difficulty of that game. Or Kingdom Hearts locking away a special final movie behind totally 100% completion in Normal Mode, because apparently doing it in Easy wasn't enough for Square (they sort of relaxed this in later games). Or even God of War locking everything unlockable behind Challenge of the Gods.
Like, I get the concept of challenge modes/stages, but one of the nice things about, say, the Batman games, is that the challenge shit was over elsewhere, for the most part (they still get side-eye for those hoop ring challenge missions I finished but they never made me do anything like it in the base game). To me, challenge BS should be over there, where people who actually enjoy it or need that hardass challenge can go do it, and the rest of us can enjoy the game on any mode and to the fullest.
That's not to say challenge isn't fun; I enjoy both Dark Souls 1 and II, for example (though Dark Souls was imminently uncaring and Dark Souls II was more sadistic). But hard for the sake of hard, and denying or insulting people for a choice you gave them in the first place ("we're going to make an easy mode, but we're going to make you feel bad for picking it") is, in my opinion, one of the worst types of game design fails around. It's a total misread of the intent of games to me.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
KH had an easy mode? I thought it only had normal and proud mode or whatever it was called (until the final mix version of the game where they added the extra difficulties).
I finished up Dishonored: The Brigmore Witches on Friday night. After going through both DLC campaigns...
1. Holy crap between The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches I got a whole second game!
2. I like playing as Daud better than Corvo. Time freezing while I line up a blink is too good, and I desperately wish Corvo had that, too.
+7
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
I finished up Dishonored: The Brigmore Witches on Friday night. After going through both DLC campaigns...
1. Holy crap between The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches I got a whole second game!
2. I like playing as Daud better than Corvo. Time freezing while I line up a blink is too good, and I desperately wish Corvo had that, too.
Yeah, that time slow on Daud's Blink was a total improvement.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
I finished up Dishonored: The Brigmore Witches on Friday night. After going through both DLC campaigns...
1. Holy crap between The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches I got a whole second game!
2. I like playing as Daud better than Corvo. Time freezing while I line up a blink is too good, and I desperately wish Corvo had that, too.
Yeah, that time slow on Daud's Blink was a total improvement.
Good news! It's one of the upgrades he can get for Blink in Dishonored 2.
Cross one off the backlog! I just finished up DOOM (missed a bunch but will go back to complete it.) That was just a great experience all around. I think once I found the trick to getting unlimited ammo with the siege mode guass cannon I was basically the doom slayer the demons of old feared. Such a blast, thanks again for the amazing game @Firebird
+16
Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the kind of thing I'm thinking of is like, where the SNES game PLOK! locked the game behind Normal; it had an Easy mode, but that only went up to the first boss. Then it kicked you out and said, "fuck you, play on Normal". Which really was hard mode, and hard was impossible, considering the jank and difficulty of that game. Or Kingdom Hearts locking away a special final movie behind totally 100% completion in Normal Mode, because apparently doing it in Easy wasn't enough for Square (they sort of relaxed this in later games). Or even God of War locking everything unlockable behind Challenge of the Gods.
Like, I get the concept of challenge modes/stages, but one of the nice things about, say, the Batman games, is that the challenge shit was over elsewhere, for the most part (they still get side-eye for those hoop ring challenge missions I finished but they never made me do anything like it in the base game). To me, challenge BS should be over there, where people who actually enjoy it or need that hardass challenge can go do it, and the rest of us can enjoy the game on any mode and to the fullest.
That's not to say challenge isn't fun; I enjoy both Dark Souls 1 and II, for example (though Dark Souls was imminently uncaring and Dark Souls II was more sadistic). But hard for the sake of hard, and denying or insulting people for a choice you gave them in the first place ("we're going to make an easy mode, but we're going to make you feel bad for picking it") is, in my opinion, one of the worst types of game design fails around. It's a total misread of the intent of games to me.
Shadow Warrior 2 deserves some kind of medal for its easy mode description.
Cross one off the backlog! I just finished up DOOM (missed a bunch but will go back to complete it.) That was just a great experience all around. I think once I found the trick to getting unlimited ammo with the siege mode guass cannon I was basically the doom slayer the demons of old feared. Such a blast, thanks again for the amazing game @Firebird
I am on my way to this. At VEGA core right now. But yeah, Armor on Glory kills+ Unlimited Ammo at 75 Armor is great
Meanwhile Wolfenstein needs a kick in the dick for its description of Easy Mode.
I'm guessing it was using the difficulty descriptions from the original Wolfenstein 3D?
There are four difficulty levels in the original MS-DOS release of Wolfenstein 3D. It is useful to refer to them as numeric "levels".
level 1, "Can I play, Daddy?", the easiest.
level 2, "Don't hurt me."
level 3, "Bring 'em on!", the default.
level 4, "I am Death incarnate!", the hardest.
Meanwhile Wolfenstein needs a kick in the dick for its description of Easy Mode.
I'm guessing it was using the difficulty descriptions from the original Wolfenstein 3D?
There are four difficulty levels in the original MS-DOS release of Wolfenstein 3D. It is useful to refer to them as numeric "levels".
level 1, "Can I play, Daddy?", the easiest.
level 2, "Don't hurt me."
level 3, "Bring 'em on!", the default.
level 4, "I am Death incarnate!", the hardest.
I believe so. Wasn't funny then either.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
It also shows a picture of BJ Blazkowicz in a bonnet and pacifier.
+1
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
This is cool in theory, but it ends up sucking because it means that people who only play on easy/normal modes end up missing out on content.
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
You're asking if developers have ever coded multiple games based only on the difficulty selected?
If you're so self conscious that you can't take a little ribbing from a game when you select Easy Mode than I don't know what to tell you.
I wouldn't take ribbing like that from someone i'm friends with in real life, why would I find it acceptable from people i'm paying money to so that their product can entertain me? They're insulting me for choosing an option that they put in the goddamn game in the first place.
+4
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
If you're so self conscious that you can't take a little ribbing from a game when you select Easy Mode than I don't know what to tell you.
There's no need to insult someone based on their difficulty preferences. Especially preferences you provided. If you don't want your game to have a difficulty mode, don't provide one. There are plenty of games that don't.
There's no need to insult the skill or patience level of your players.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
More or less what PLOK! tried to do, and it fell flat for me, more of a "now play on a real mode" input than anything else.
New Game + for Dark Souls is akin to a higher difficulty mode, but that's the only one I can think of.
The problem is not everyone is skilled, paitient, or has time to invest in playing so many modes of a game, and so it would have to be cheaper and or niche to survive. I don't play above normal, ever, because (mirroring what that Shadow Warrior 2 difficulty says) I have nothing to prove. So saying that some of the game is locked behind that specific difficulty would decrease the quality of the game for me; it could easily encourage me personally to seek a refund, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
Zelda and Mario for NES.
If you beat the game then you got to replay it with a remixed version where things were generally more difficult. Id love to see that come back as Ive never been able to do New Game+ when you are just playing the exact same content you already beat.
edit: Binding of Isaac! After you beat Mom 5 times the game got harder. And After 10 times you unlock Hell.
Have there ever been any games were the difficulty modes were actually different games? Like, easy mode being a sort of prologue tutorial, normal mode being the main game, and hard mode being sort of like a new game+ or really difficult epilogue. That seems like a good idea to get people to play all the different modes by offering something different and unique for each one
Jamestown kinda did this. Easy was available until level 3, normal until level 4, and hard is where level 5 and the ending were. It ended up feeling like training to get better. as level 1 on normal was not much harder than level 3 on easy.
It made for a nice difficulty ramp, encouraged me to try new ships out, and elongated a shmup campaign all at the same time.
It also shows a picture of BJ Blazkowicz in a bonnet and pacifier.
Which it also did in the original MS-DOS game too.
I view it as a product of the 90s, the era where even the platformer mascots tried to out edge the previous cartoon animal. I find it amusing when a continuation of a franchise from that time retains the exact same idiosyncratic difficulty levels I remember as a teenager, the equivalent of someone the same age going "remember when we thought this was cool?", but not so much when it's a newer property.
If you're so self conscious that you can't take a little ribbing from a game when you select Easy Mode than I don't know what to tell you.
There's no need to insult someone based on their difficulty preferences. Especially preferences you provided. If you don't want your game to have a difficulty mode, don't provide one. There are plenty of games that don't.
There's no need to insult the skill or patience level of your players.
Sounds like thou needeth a wetnurse.
You're acting like developers are upset that they "have" to put in easier difficulty modes and are taking it out on you.
+4
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
If you're so self conscious that you can't take a little ribbing from a game when you select Easy Mode than I don't know what to tell you.
There's no need to insult someone based on their difficulty preferences. Especially preferences you provided. If you don't want your game to have a difficulty mode, don't provide one. There are plenty of games that don't.
There's no need to insult the skill or patience level of your players.
Sounds like thou needeth a wetnurse.
You're acting like developers are upset that they "have" to put in easier difficulty modes and are taking it out on you.
I'm acting like I wouldn't put up with an insult like that coming from people I know, let alone people making games I intend to play during my downtime.
Insulting someone for being a wimp because of what they choose to do, for me, falls into the same area that "man up", "toughen up", "git gud", and "you need a thicker skin" belong. Specifically, the trashbin of history.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Posts
Cave Story in particular is pretty bad about this, I'm absolutely confident that I would never have found all the tasks needed to reach the secret ending without internet help.
Buuuuut I also forgive the game for a lot of its faults, because a) it's over a decade old, b) was created by one guy, and c) really kickstarted the entire indie game movement as we now know it. If it was released today it might not necessarily be welcomed as anything special, but it was important and very influential at the time.
I need a new website that talks about and reviews new/upcoming games so I know what's even out or on the horizon. Lately, my entire game knowledge has come from either this thread or what people are currently streaming on Twitch. However the latter, it's always pretty much just for a day if one big streamer plays something new. Otherwise it's all League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone or Counterstrike.
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
I don't mind skill walls, if they're appropriately marked or you're told about them. "Hey, doing [difficult as shit thing X] will make stuff happen!" is pretty much an assured way to make Drascin head there and do Difficult As Shit Thing X.
But making things into completely missable events, which are often nonsense, is bullshit. I adore Cave Story, but the requirements for its secret ending make no fucking sense and are straight out of a Sierra adventure game, and are incredibly easy to fuck up to boot.
I was waiting for a 3d card handme down from another PA forumer, but its been like 6 months and I forgot whom it was.
I guess they never bought that 1070 or 1080.
In steam news, I beat
Decent game, good sound track, good pixel art.
I'll probably not play it again, in hopes to finish more of my never ending backlog.
This time im going to finally play Far Cry 3. So far - it's very good! It's not surprising, every game that gives me options to be stealthy deserves my attention.
What's more, as an owner of laptop im not spoiled my ultra HD 4K graphics, so game from 2012 is still very pretty for me.
He hooked me up a while back, if a 660ti will improve you, give him a shout. He's good people.
That is actually my main issue. You have a VERY slim chance of doing all those events correctly without looking it up. Unless you like replaying games a hundred times to look for things.
I do think for the story that yeah, many people would be best youtubing it. I personally don't mind that, but I also don't mind extreme difficulty either.
gamertag:Maguano71
Switch:SW-8428-8279-1687
Like, I get the concept of challenge modes/stages, but one of the nice things about, say, the Batman games, is that the challenge shit was over elsewhere, for the most part (they still get side-eye for those hoop ring challenge missions I finished but they never made me do anything like it in the base game). To me, challenge BS should be over there, where people who actually enjoy it or need that hardass challenge can go do it, and the rest of us can enjoy the game on any mode and to the fullest.
That's not to say challenge isn't fun; I enjoy both Dark Souls 1 and II, for example (though Dark Souls was imminently uncaring and Dark Souls II was more sadistic). But hard for the sake of hard, and denying or insulting people for a choice you gave them in the first place ("we're going to make an easy mode, but we're going to make you feel bad for picking it") is, in my opinion, one of the worst types of game design fails around. It's a total misread of the intent of games to me.
1. Holy crap between The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches I got a whole second game!
2. I like playing as Daud better than Corvo. Time freezing while I line up a blink is too good, and I desperately wish Corvo had that, too.
Also I just started Jotun and hey what a great game that is. Pleasant Zelda puzzles with some big boss battles and a great setting.
Good news! It's one of the upgrades he can get for Blink in Dishonored 2.
Shadow Warrior 2 deserves some kind of medal for its easy mode description.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
I am on my way to this. At VEGA core right now. But yeah, Armor on Glory kills+ Unlimited Ammo at 75 Armor is great
Better or worse than Ninja Gaiden Black?
I'm guessing it was using the difficulty descriptions from the original Wolfenstein 3D?
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Commensurate?
I believe so. Wasn't funny then either.
Yes it was.
If you're so self conscious that you can't take a little ribbing from a game when you select Easy Mode than I don't know what to tell you.
This is cool in theory, but it ends up sucking because it means that people who only play on easy/normal modes end up missing out on content.
You're asking if developers have ever coded multiple games based only on the difficulty selected?
No. The answer is no.
I wouldn't take ribbing like that from someone i'm friends with in real life, why would I find it acceptable from people i'm paying money to so that their product can entertain me? They're insulting me for choosing an option that they put in the goddamn game in the first place.
There's no need to insult someone based on their difficulty preferences. Especially preferences you provided. If you don't want your game to have a difficulty mode, don't provide one. There are plenty of games that don't.
There's no need to insult the skill or patience level of your players.
51.36 USD, for the kids.
More or less what PLOK! tried to do, and it fell flat for me, more of a "now play on a real mode" input than anything else.
New Game + for Dark Souls is akin to a higher difficulty mode, but that's the only one I can think of.
The problem is not everyone is skilled, paitient, or has time to invest in playing so many modes of a game, and so it would have to be cheaper and or niche to survive. I don't play above normal, ever, because (mirroring what that Shadow Warrior 2 difficulty says) I have nothing to prove. So saying that some of the game is locked behind that specific difficulty would decrease the quality of the game for me; it could easily encourage me personally to seek a refund, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.
If you beat the game then you got to replay it with a remixed version where things were generally more difficult. Id love to see that come back as Ive never been able to do New Game+ when you are just playing the exact same content you already beat.
edit: Binding of Isaac! After you beat Mom 5 times the game got harder. And After 10 times you unlock Hell.
Woe betide any developer who does not stack them.
Jamestown kinda did this. Easy was available until level 3, normal until level 4, and hard is where level 5 and the ending were. It ended up feeling like training to get better. as level 1 on normal was not much harder than level 3 on easy.
It made for a nice difficulty ramp, encouraged me to try new ships out, and elongated a shmup campaign all at the same time.
Which it also did in the original MS-DOS game too.
I view it as a product of the 90s, the era where even the platformer mascots tried to out edge the previous cartoon animal. I find it amusing when a continuation of a franchise from that time retains the exact same idiosyncratic difficulty levels I remember as a teenager, the equivalent of someone the same age going "remember when we thought this was cool?", but not so much when it's a newer property.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Sounds like thou needeth a wetnurse.
You're acting like developers are upset that they "have" to put in easier difficulty modes and are taking it out on you.
I'm acting like I wouldn't put up with an insult like that coming from people I know, let alone people making games I intend to play during my downtime.
Insulting someone for being a wimp because of what they choose to do, for me, falls into the same area that "man up", "toughen up", "git gud", and "you need a thicker skin" belong. Specifically, the trashbin of history.