Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

The [Movies] Thread: Pre-Summer Blockbuster Blockbuster Season

19293949597

Posts

  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Are we earnestly doing a kids-these-days routine in here? Criminy, people have been breaking theatre etiquette for as long as there have been theaters. There's a scene in Hamlet where Hamlet gets annoyed at Polonius for talking during a show.

    wandering on
    TheBlackWindKristmas KthulhudavidsdurionsMikey CTSBloodySloth
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Are we earnestly doing a kids-these-days routine in here? Criminy, people have been breaking theatre etiquette for as long as there have been theaters. There's a scene in Hamlet where Hamlet gets annoyed at Polonius for talking during a show.

    Wait, Bill Shakespeare was doing plays about theater, just like movies about movies? This isn't a fad that's going away, is it?

    wandering
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    god this week

    I'm so tired

    and done with being depressed

    I've had a death in the family and a few other tough things happen in the past couple weeks. I watched Your Name and it really helped.

    I kind of figured it was going to end in a depressing manner. Is that not the case? That's the main reason I haven't seen it yet...

    PA HotS Group
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    I live in the us and I've basically never had anyone be a problem in a theatre

    cursedking on
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Are we earnestly doing a kids-these-days routine in here? Criminy, people have been breaking theatre etiquette for as long as there have been theaters. There's a scene in Hamlet where Hamlet gets annoyed at Polonius for talking during a show.

    Wait, Bill Shakespeare was doing plays about theater, just like movies about movies? This isn't a fad that's going away, is it?

    A common misconception is that "meta" is new. Don Quixote, a book published more than 400 years ago, is about a guy who goes off to be a knight because he's read too much adventure stories. Quixote was the Deadpool of the 17th century (or perhaps more aptly, the Kick-Ass).

    ACsTqqK.jpg
    Harry DresdenwanderingshrykeCommander ZoomJazzKristmas KthulhudavidsdurionsHahnsoo1
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    god this week

    I'm so tired

    and done with being depressed

    Have you considered watching an uplifting movie?

    Alternatively, have you considered watching a depressing movie?

    Last week I was super down so I rewatched Schindler's List. By the end of it I had wept, but I'd also reminded myself that things could be worse, and that one person can do good in the face of evil (okay, so SL does have an uplift to it as well as all the horror). Plus no movie that fucking well made can fail to inspire some cheer. I don't want to necessarily watch the Bible for its cinematography, but that cinematography, yo.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
    wanderingAtomikaRhalloTonny
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    god this week

    I'm so tired

    and done with being depressed

    I've had a death in the family and a few other tough things happen in the past couple weeks. I watched Your Name and it really helped.

    I kind of figured it was going to end in a depressing manner. Is that not the case? That's the main reason I haven't seen it yet...

    It doesn't end how you think it will, but I wouldn't call it "depressing."

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    So Kubo is on Netflix.

    Uh... holy shit this movie.

    wanderingAstaerethJohnny ChopsockyTheBlackWindDark Raven XChiselphanejimb213
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    god this week

    I'm so tired

    and done with being depressed

    Have you considered watching an uplifting movie?

    Like Up

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    Harry Dresden
  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Watched Sing with my kids and I gotta admit that it was pretty great. Good music, funny, and more heart than I expected from the house of Minions.

    3DS Friend Code - 1032-1293-2997
    Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
    PSN - Brainiac_8
    Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
    Add me!
  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Fast 8 is so stupid and still magical. The parts that try to be funny are pretty so-so, but the parts that try to be cool are hilarious. The opening action sequence might be my favorite of all the movies - I laughed straight through it.

    It's definitely too long and Charlize Theron's character is a drag. But it has:
    • Dom driving a car that's on fire in a street race vs a guy who tries to kill him, only to win, have a bunch of random kids run up and hug him, and then let the bad guy keep his car because he just wanted to earn his respect
    • A hacker battle up there with the worst CSI sequences
    • Jason Statham fighting with a baby
    • Non-sequitors everywhere
    • A horde of zombie cars that would be like if you took World War Z and did a Find & Replace with 'zombie' and 'car'
    • Helen Mirren! who's also criminally underused/misused, like Theron
    • The word 'family' used 18,351 times

    It's obviously no 7, but if they could've chopped 20-30 minutes off it I think it could've been up there with 6. Oh, and Scott Eastwood is fucking terrible.

    Jibba on
    Dark Raven XTexiKenKristmas Kthulhu
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    You could... actually just extrapolate the setting.

    Like, real easy, from historical events on Real-Ass Earth.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...

    The World Wars

    Extrapolate what though?

    Like, the political situation in TFA is genuinely confusing. I have no idea wtf is going on based on the movie.

    The OT didn't really flesh out the political situation much at all either, and to it's benefit, but it was at least clearly defined. Bad empire and a rebellion against it.

    TFA is necessarily a continuation of this but it's really not clear how we got from the defeat of the Empire to whatever the hell seemed to be going on in TFA.

    KanaFencingsaxwanderingKristmas Kthulhukime
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    You could... actually just extrapolate the setting.

    Like, real easy, from historical events on Real-Ass Earth.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...

    The World Wars

    Extrapolate what though?

    Like, the political situation in TFA is genuinely confusing. I have no idea wtf is going on based on the movie.

    The OT didn't really flesh out the political situation much at all either, and to it's benefit, but it was at least clearly defined. Bad empire and a rebellion against it.

    TFA is necessarily a continuation of this but it's really not clear how we got from the defeat of the Empire to whatever the hell seemed to be going on in TFA.

    The OT gave enough that the audience could gather the shape of the galactic government and what's going on in the universe with some mildly detailed talk and implication. So did Rogue One. With TFA you have to read the novels to grasp the surface of what the actual status quo is.

    Brainiac 8FencingsaxDarkPrimus
  • FroThulhuFroThulhu Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    The OT literally gave you "There's an emperor. He's a bad guy. He dissolved a senate of some sort. The bad guys are in charge."

    Also a Moff, wherever the fuck that is.

    That's how Star Wars started, and the entire basis. Whatever further meat you remember being on those bones, it wasn't there.

    No joke. I wouldn't shit my official Favorite Turds.

    FroThulhu on
    Nova_C wrote: »
    "I'm arresting you for failing to check yourself. You have the right to wreck yourself."
    davidsdurionsBloodySloth
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
    FroThulhudavidsdurionsDarkPrimusEtiowsa
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I'd
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    The OT literally gave you "There's an emperor. He's a bad guy. He dissolved a senate of some sort. The bad guys are in charge."

    Also a Moff, wherever the fuck that is.

    That's how Star Wars started, and the entire basis. Whatever further meat you remember being on those bones, it wasn't there.

    No joke. I wouldn't shit my official Favorite Turds.

    That's all you need though. Evil guy emperor bad, keeps systems in line so he's clearly the evil overlord. rebellion good, rag tag, etc.

    TFA wouldn't have the problem if it wasn't trying to play in an established playground, since we can do the same thing internally to that story. but it's trying to jump from the end of RotJ to TFA where it gets a little weird and they probably could have done a bit more. I was confused in the theater.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
    Fencingsaxshryke
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    The only thing I thought was a mistake in TFA was blowing up planets we'd never been to, with only characters we'd never met living there. In the superior version of the same idea in Abrams' Star Trek, we've:
    -Seen Vulcan
    -Know several characters who grew up there
    -Realized the planet is important culturally and politically

    THEN it gets blown up. TFA is like "Oh no it's government planet! They blew up government planet! We're not even gonna name the thing they just destroyed, but it's a large big deal! ... Oh and a fleet we never pictured also blew up."

    shrykehonovereAtlas in ChainsKristmas KthulhuDarkPrimusJibbaGnome-InterruptusRhalloTonnyEtiowsa
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    Well, no, they establish that there's good guys, and some other good guys, and then the bad guys, who may or may not just be the old bad guys?? and the bad guy used to be with one of the good guys, and apparently now he's part of this bad guy group? But we never hear a thing about them so who knows.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    shrykeGnome-Interruptus
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Preacher wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    They're all Poochies. All of them. This is why people don't like millenials.

    At the very end they try to say "you aren't quiet at a concert or a sporting event so why is it different here?"

    Because it just is, get the hell over it, find another place to apply your college relativism.

    But you are quiet at a theater performance like opera or a stage play. God damn idiots.

    Depends on the kind of play though (hello, panto audience!)

    (edit:but that works both ways, there are enough sporting events or concerts where you are expected to be quiet.)

    Dizzy D on
    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    Well, no, they establish that there's good guys, and some other good guys, and then the bad guys, who may or may not just be the old bad guys?? and the bad guy used to be with one of the good guys, and apparently now he's part of this bad guy group? But we never hear a thing about them so who knows.

    TFA uses plenty of proper nouns so it's nowhere near as confusing as whatever this is.

    davidsdurions
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Woops

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    This unravels when the bad guys bring up the Resistance working for the Republic, and we still don't have the full picture on who the First Order are in the movie. It's a lot more complicated than discussed in the movie, as well as the fact
    we've given very little context for the planets destroyed, and unlike Alderran we have no reason to care.
    Putting something meta in a story isn't good by itself, it needs to make sense and do it well - it's debatable the movie did that.

    FencingsaxKanashrykeKristmas Kthulhu
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    The only thing I thought was a mistake in TFA was blowing up planets we'd never been to, with only characters we'd never met living there. In the superior version of the same idea in Abrams' Star Trek, we've:
    -Seen Vulcan
    -Know several characters who grew up there
    -Realized the planet is important culturally and politically

    THEN it gets blown up. TFA is like "Oh no it's government planet! They blew up government planet! We're not even gonna name the thing they just destroyed, but it's a large big deal! ... Oh and a fleet we never pictured also blew up."

    Storywise, it did have an important function. Before the Resistance always had the Republic to fall back to should things really get out of hand, while the Republic was dismissing the New Order as just the last cough of a dying Empire. Taking out the Republic meant the Resistance lost all its backing and the New Order establishes itself as a serious threat to the entire Galaxy. It changed the power dynamics and settings things up nicely for the next few movies.

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    The only thing I thought was a mistake in TFA was blowing up planets we'd never been to, with only characters we'd never met living there. In the superior version of the same idea in Abrams' Star Trek, we've:
    -Seen Vulcan
    -Know several characters who grew up there
    -Realized the planet is important culturally and politically

    THEN it gets blown up. TFA is like "Oh no it's government planet! They blew up government planet! We're not even gonna name the thing they just destroyed, but it's a large big deal! ... Oh and a fleet we never pictured also blew up."

    Storywise, it did have an important function. Before the Resistance always had the Republic to fall back to should things really get out of hand, while the Republic was dismissing the New Order as just the last cough of a dying Empire. Taking out the Republic meant the Resistance lost all its backing and the New Order establishes itself as a serious threat to the entire Galaxy. It changed the power dynamics and settings things up nicely for the next few movies.

    Except we don't know much about the Republic, how powerful they are - or why they need to rely on the Resistance, or the relationship between the two. They're an off-screen faction at best, who's claim to fame is
    getting destroyed
    with next to no built up. Why should we care about them? How does their not being there effect the galaxy? We know more about the Resistance and Ray's planet than them.

    edit: The political picture set up in ANH didn't need this much set up just to understand what's going on.

    Harry Dresden on
    Fencingsax
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    As mentioned, we rewatched The Terminator yesterday, possibly for the first time since the turn of the century. (That sounds more whoa... than it deserves to, though.) And yes, it's all terribly '80s in its fashions, music and especially hairdos, the special effects aren't exactly convincing (though I do love the stop-motion Terminator at the end), and Kyle Reese's love for Sarah is done as romantic when it's actually sad and a bit creepy, but IMO the film still holds up very well. It's lean and straightforward and single-minded, and Sarah isn't a shrieking damsel but reacts pretty credibly to the situation and develops as a character. Also, it works so well that Schwarzenegger is a machine who's supposed to not quite right.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    Harry Dresden
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Knight_ wrote: »
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    The OT literally gave you "There's an emperor. He's a bad guy. He dissolved a senate of some sort. The bad guys are in charge."

    Also a Moff, wherever the fuck that is.

    That's how Star Wars started, and the entire basis. Whatever further meat you remember being on those bones, it wasn't there.

    No joke. I wouldn't shit my official Favorite Turds.

    That's all you need though. Evil guy emperor bad, keeps systems in line so he's clearly the evil overlord. rebellion good, rag tag, etc.

    TFA wouldn't have the problem if it wasn't trying to play in an established playground, since we can do the same thing internally to that story. but it's trying to jump from the end of RotJ to TFA where it gets a little weird and they probably could have done a bit more. I was confused in the theater.

    Yes, the problem is that TFA is necessarily continuing a story we already know so it has to fit coherently with what has come before. But they don't really bother trying to do that with the political situation. Everyone I went to the movie with walked out having enjoyed the film but having no fucking clue what was going on with the First Order and the Resistance. (and also wondering wtf was going on with those planets that ... I guess blew up or something? And were in the sky for some reason?)

    It's like if ESB started with Vader commanding the forces of the Pan-Galactic Hegemony fighting against Leai and Luke and Han who were allied with the Star Systems Union. Ok, we know who the good guys and bad guys are here still but, like, you'd be genuinely wondering wtf had happened.

    shryke on
    Harry DresdenFencingsax
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    The only thing I thought was a mistake in TFA was blowing up planets we'd never been to, with only characters we'd never met living there. In the superior version of the same idea in Abrams' Star Trek, we've:
    -Seen Vulcan
    -Know several characters who grew up there
    -Realized the planet is important culturally and politically

    THEN it gets blown up. TFA is like "Oh no it's government planet! They blew up government planet! We're not even gonna name the thing they just destroyed, but it's a large big deal! ... Oh and a fleet we never pictured also blew up."

    Storywise, it did have an important function. Before the Resistance always had the Republic to fall back to should things really get out of hand, while the Republic was dismissing the New Order as just the last cough of a dying Empire. Taking out the Republic meant the Resistance lost all its backing and the New Order establishes itself as a serious threat to the entire Galaxy. It changed the power dynamics and settings things up nicely for the next few movies.

    Not true insomuch as the movie is concerned. The Republic and its support is not a plot point at all. At no point are heros waiting for support from the republic. At no point are the heros attempting to get help from the republic. At no point are the heroes going to republic planets, on republic planets, or involved with the republic in any way.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
    shrykeHarry DresdenhonovereFencingsaxKristmas Kthulhushoeboxjeddy
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    It feels like a lot of the First Order and Resistance stuff was added in rewrites.

    When you think about it, a lot of TFA was kind of just filler. The main plot of the movie is about finding Luke. Poe getting information about Luke, downloading it into BB-8, and Kylo capturing him is the inciting incident. The movie is about Poe, Finn, and Rey trying to get BB-8 to the Resistance so they can find Luke.

    The whole stuff about Starkiller Base was really just a side thing. Destroying the Republic planets and the attack on Starkiller had nothing to do with finding Luke.

    R2-D2 could have woken up right after BB-8 got to the Resistance base. There was no reason why R2-D2 had to wake up and add its piece of the map after the destruction of Starkiller Base.

    It feels like the story was originally supposed to be much smaller scale. It was just about the Resistance trying to find Luke and the First Order trying to stop them. They didn't need any of that stuff about the greater war between the First Order and the Republic or Starkiller Base.

    KingofMadCows on
    Kristmas KthulhuGnome-Interruptus
  • FroThulhuFroThulhu Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    Well, no, they establish that there's good guys, and some other good guys, and then the bad guys, who may or may not just be the old bad guys?? and the bad guy used to be with one of the good guys, and apparently now he's part of this bad guy group? But we never hear a thing about them so who knows.

    So, you busted a bunch of incredibly clear motivations, that are somehow unclear because.... you want further explanation, because.

    Like, there's good guys and good guys, and bad guys.

    How... How is that not clear?

    If you've watched six movies, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've watched the OT, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've never watched a Star Wars, these guys are still Nazis who murder a bunch of people.

    Is this not clear?

    Nova_C wrote: »
    "I'm arresting you for failing to check yourself. You have the right to wreck yourself."
    Ninjeffdavidsdurions
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The entire super-weapon subplot should have been cut and I been saying that since the movie came out. It was both the least compelling part of the movie dramatically and the most confusing for the audience, but it also just kinda doesn't quite make sense. And ultimately it distracts us from the core conflict the movie begins and ends with.

    honovereFencingsaxAtlas in ChainsKristmas KthulhukimeadejaanGnome-InterruptusRhalloTonny
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    For me it's in no way that the story is confusing. It's that it all feels extremely "been there, done that", just barely dressed up to look different. It's basically the Empire wearing a phony moustache, pootling around in a Death Star that also wears a phony moustache, destroying not just one but several Alderaans wearing silly hats and putting on a silly accent. ("Non, I am not Alderaan. What is zis Alderaan you speak of?"). For me they did a great job revising the OT with Kylo Ren, but there were too many elements that weren't a revision or a remix, combining the old with the new in interesting and creative ways; instead, these elements were little more than copy & paste jobs. It worked well enough for the first film, but I'm only giving them the benefit of the doubt once. I don't want Episode VIII to be ersatz Empire Strikes Back.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    FencingsaxAtlas in ChainsKristmas KthulhuGnome-Interruptus
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    Well, no, they establish that there's good guys, and some other good guys, and then the bad guys, who may or may not just be the old bad guys?? and the bad guy used to be with one of the good guys, and apparently now he's part of this bad guy group? But we never hear a thing about them so who knows.

    So, you busted a bunch of incredibly clear motivations, that are somehow unclear because.... you want further explanation, because.

    Like, there's good guys and good guys, and bad guys.

    How... How is that not clear?

    If you've watched six movies, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've watched the OT, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've never watched a Star Wars, these guys are still Nazis who murder a bunch of people.

    Is this not clear?

    It's not that simple as establishing who's good and bad. This isn't Walker:Texas Ranger, we don't know the stakes or who this people are. They should have done what the OT did, where the basics were obvious instead they made it even more complicated than left that out of the movie leaving the audience to fill in the gaps with the barest minimum or a clue how to do that.

    We're not asking for a detailed thesis, we're looking for the absolute basics for how the political atmosphere works since the OT finished. Nor should the people in charge have tried to create a very complicated setting with no intention of setting it up clearly. This isn't 24 where they have a whole season to clear up the details, they get one shot here. This is extra important since when they destroy the status quo we don't know enough to full grasp the implications so we know what the new status quo entails. Will it be back to pre-OT level with the FO taking over the Empire role? If the answer to this is no, they fucked up.

    Harry Dresden on
    Fencingsax
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    FroThulhu wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    TFA spells out quite clearly that there are bad guys and good guys, and the bad guys are not only bad because they're bad here but because they remind you of the bad guys from the OT. It's meta, but it should work, unless this is your first Star Wars movie, in which case you only have all the on-screen murders and your historical understanding of the Nazis to guide you.

    Well, no, they establish that there's good guys, and some other good guys, and then the bad guys, who may or may not just be the old bad guys?? and the bad guy used to be with one of the good guys, and apparently now he's part of this bad guy group? But we never hear a thing about them so who knows.

    So, you busted a bunch of incredibly clear motivations, that are somehow unclear because.... you want further explanation, because.

    Like, there's good guys and good guys, and bad guys.

    How... How is that not clear?

    If you've watched six movies, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've watched the OT, you know about the bad guys.

    If you've never watched a Star Wars, these guys are still Nazis who murder a bunch of people.

    Is this not clear?

    It's not clear what these nazis have to do with the previous nazis. Who we spent 3 movies fighting. (There are only 3 lights Star Wars movies!)

    They really kinda look like the Empire and the Resistance really kinda looks like the Rebels but they aren't those groups and the last Star Wars movie showed the Empire losing so ... I don't know wtf is happening here.

    Kana
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Spicy Rudolph Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    What's funny is most of these complaints can be levied at A New Hope, but we mostly all grew up with all 3 of the films. Don't we just see the Emporer in holograms until ESB?

    The PT we went into knowing how it would all turn out.

    This is the first time nearly all of us have walked into a Star Wars experience with absolutely no idea how it would go, one that was designed from the get-go to span 3 films. The OT was not.

    I find a lot of the complaints will only be resolved upon the next 2 films being released, and really that's all that can be done.

    I'm looking forward to finding out more of the story in 8 this year.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    AstaerethdavidsdurionsBloodySloth
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    What's funny is most of these complaints can be levied at A New Hope, but we mostly all grew up with all 3 of the films. Don't we just see the Emporer in holograms until ESB?

    The PT we went into knowing how it would all turn out.

    This is the first time nearly all of us have walked into a Star Wars experience with absolutely no idea how it would go, one that was designed from the get-go to span 3 films. The OT was not.

    I find a lot of the complaints will only be resolved upon the next 2 films being released, and really that's all that can be done.

    I'm looking forward to finding out more of the story in 8 this year.

    I disagree.

    It's not just about the Emperor, who was talked about early on IIRC. It's the entire political situation, which was black and white and basic yeah but it worked. When the new movies introduced a new setting, along with making it more complex than the OT ever was, this required extra work to set it up right.

    One of PT's biggest flaws was its politics, which made absolutely no sense. How it turned out wasn't the point, it was establishing what the setting is like and/or what's a stake. This was an utter failure on both counts.

    Except we shouldn't have to wait for the sequels to figure this shit out, it's the basics. We shouldn't need to wait for a sequel to understand what's going on, and it's not like TFA was a movie focused on a tiny section within the setting.

    So am I, but this time I hope they don't repeat this otherwise we'll be back to square one on not knowing what's going on again.

    Harry Dresden on
    FencingsaxKristmas KthulhuKanaGnome-Interruptus
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Spicy Rudolph Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    What's funny is most of these complaints can be levied at A New Hope, but we mostly all grew up with all 3 of the films. Don't we just see the Emporer in holograms until ESB?

    The PT we went into knowing how it would all turn out.

    This is the first time nearly all of us have walked into a Star Wars experience with absolutely no idea how it would go, one that was designed from the get-go to span 3 films. The OT was not.

    I find a lot of the complaints will only be resolved upon the next 2 films being released, and really that's all that can be done.

    I'm looking forward to finding out more of the story in 8 this year.

    I disagree.

    It's not just about the Emperor, who was talked about early on IIRC. It's the entire political situation, which was black and white and basic yeah but it worked. When the new movies introduced a new setting, along with making it more complex than the OT ever was, this required extra work to set it up right.

    One of PT's biggest flaws was its politics, which made absolutely no sense. How it turned out wasn't the point, it was establishing what the setting is like and/or what's a stake. This was an utter failure on both counts.

    Except we shouldn't have to wait for the sequels to figure this shit out, it's the basics. We shouldn't need to wait for a sequel to understand what's going on, and it's not like TFA was a movie focused on a tiny section within the setting.

    So am I, but this time I hope they don't repeat this otherwise we'll be back to square one on not knowing what's going on again.

    I mean, yeah, when you watch PT 1 of 3 you kinda do need to wait for a sequel to understand.

    It's not as well-encapsulated as the Marvel films (for example) or even the OT, but wondering why they didn't vomit the entire plot out into exposition in the first film is just kind of a foreign concept to me.

    The PT was all exposition. Are you saying you would rather have the films shot with people walking and talking through various hallways?

    I never felt like TFA introduced to us any sort of complex political climate. Yeah, it's not simple as hell like ANH, but it's not the mess of a situation that the PT threw out there, either.

    And knowing how the PT turned out is exactly the point. We already knew absolutely everything that was happening on screen would fail. All of it. We knew this. We knew it was pointless from scene 1, because the little kid who couldn't act would eventually turn into Darth Vader.

    Trash the politics. We don't watch Westerns to see politics, we didn't watch LOTR for politics, and I sure am not going to see a movie about space wizards with laser swords so I can listen to them wax political for 2 hours.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    FroThulhudavidsdurionsBloodySloth
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    I mean, yeah, when you watch PT 1 of 3 you kinda do need to wait for a sequel to understand.

    It's not as well-encapsulated as the Marvel films (for example) or even the OT, but wondering why they didn't vomit the entire plot out into exposition in the first film is just kind of a foreign concept to me.

    The PT was all exposition. Are you saying you would rather have the films shot with people walking and talking through various hallways?

    The sequels didn't clear anything up about the political situation either in PT, either. It was all terrible. The Clone Wars cartoons did, though - but they don't count.

    They don't need to go the Marvel route for this simple task, merely copy what the OT did.

    Why do you assume I'd like how the PT did their politics? I deliberately referenced the OT about this topic for a reason. This isn't about people walking and talking in hallways, that's a big reason why the politics failed in the PT (that said, someone like Sorkin would be able to get that to work on a political story and there are select Clone Wars eps who do that partially without screwing up) - it's about how they walk the audience through the setting. The PT, and to a lesser extent, TFA failed in this task.
    I never felt like TFA introduced to us any sort of complex political climate. Yeah, it's not simple as hell like ANH, but it's not the mess of a situation that the PT threw out there, either.

    And knowing how the PT turned out is exactly the point. We already knew absolutely everything that was happening on screen would fail. All of it. We knew this. We knew it was pointless from scene 1, because the little kid who couldn't act would eventually turn into Darth Vader.

    Trash the politics. We don't watch Westerns to see politics, we didn't watch LOTR for politics, and I sure am not going to see a movie about space wizards with laser swords so I can listen to them wax political for 2 hours.

    Have you read about the novels about how the setting works? The movie not establishing this full status quo is the point. That was a choice, and they fumbled the set up. They could have decided to have a cleaner, simpler set up and they decided that wasn't for them. So it's on them to set up more details and get everyone invested in the stakes.

    The PT fails because they failed to make the politics count, nobody cares about Palatine destroying the Republic if they don't know what the Republic does or don't care about the people inside its sphere when it's gone. Rebels did this in the pilot episode.

    Star Wars is an inherent political setting, and westerns also require the audience to know the politics to know which side to take. All stories do.

    The ending to the PT has very little investment for the audience if they don't care about the politics or the characters fighting each other over it. This is why those scenes about walking and talking in halls were bad. LOTR did have politics all though it, too.

    Who's suggesting movies with space wizards with laser swords need to have speeches to do this? I'm certainly not.

    Let me ask you a question - have you watched Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation? If you have, were you able to understand the politics clearly?

    Harry Dresden on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Spicy Rudolph Registered User regular
    edited April 2017
    I mean, yeah, when you watch PT 1 of 3 you kinda do need to wait for a sequel to understand.

    It's not as well-encapsulated as the Marvel films (for example) or even the OT, but wondering why they didn't vomit the entire plot out into exposition in the first film is just kind of a foreign concept to me.

    The PT was all exposition. Are you saying you would rather have the films shot with people walking and talking through various hallways?

    The sequels didn't clear anything up about the political situation either in PT, either. It was all terrible. The Clone Wars cartoons did, though - but they don't count.

    They don't need to go the Marvel route for this simple task, merely copy what the OT did.

    Why do you assume I'd like how the PT did their politics? I deliberately referenced the OT about this topic for a reason. This isn't about people walking and talking in hallways, that's a big reason why the politics failed in the PT (that said, someone like Sorkin would be able to get that to work on a political story and there are select Clone Wars eps who do that partially without screwing up) - it's about how they walk the audience through the setting. The PT, and to a lesser extent, TFA failed in this task.

    They failed for some.

    They succeeded for others.

    I have to disagree with you on this on a fundamental level.

    Edit: I just mean TFA. The PT was a colossal failure.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Spicy Rudolph Registered User regular
    To expand:

    I don't need a movie telling me why the destruction of a central government is bad. Yes, they had a "Government Planet" that got wiped out. I know why this would be a bad thing. I also understand groups forming out of the ashes of older groups, because it's a thing we've seen in the real world.

    I don't need to be told that Kylo is a spoiled brat who isn't quite up to snuff, they show us he isn't up to snuff and conclude the entire thing with one line: "Complete his training."

    The movie engages on Show Don't Tell and very much assumes the audience has the capability to piece together shit on their own without being explicitly seen or without developing an emotional connection.

    In a way, it's smarter than it has any right to be.

    At its core, Star Wars is a character film and it succeeded with flying colors. It set the stage using analogies we should all be quite familiar with and can extrapolate said consequences without needing our hand held by a director who thinks we're too stupid to understand basic concepts (like Lucas, for instance).

    Make. Time.
    Dizzy DFroThulhudavidsdurions
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    god this week

    I'm so tired

    and done with being depressed

    Have you considered watching an uplifting movie?

    I watched Swiss Army Man and then It's Always Sunny


    I don't know if that counts

    RhalloTonny
This discussion has been closed.