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[Death Stranding] Wave O'Babies

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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Surreal. Immersive. Earth.Registered User regular
    Yeh forget that year long lifespan thing, I will save my Bebe.
    Save Bebe. Recharge Bebe. (You need USB-C...) :lol:

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  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Hey, he wrote, uh, Para-medic I guess?
    el_vicio wrote: »
    is that...The Sound of Music?!

    And Heide, Girl of the Alps, I think.

    That tweet does make a lot of sense, actually. I've been thinking that the early landscapes looked kind of Icelandic (less so the more recent stuff), but having it be based on the Alps also makes sense.

    That scene of The Sound of Music, The Hills Are Alive..., also has a whole thing where you have a single character alone with seemingly endless nature. There's been some examples of combat and stealth and stuff, of course, but the major focus (particularly early on) has been on environmental exploration, how to get from A to B in mountainous terrain. Some of it kind of reminded me of Breath of the Wild, actually.

    Good on him for clearing up his visual inspirations, in any case.

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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    So, uh.

    Um.

    All the rest of it aside, what happens to the babies after the year where they are ‘useful.’

    Soylent

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    So, uh.

    Um.

    All the rest of it aside, what happens to the babies after the year where they are ‘useful.’

    It's extremely clear from the conversation what happens to them: they are discarded.

    I'm sure someone could come in here and say "well they never actually say that you should wait until the game comes out!" but that ignores the tone of the entire fucking conversation that we've been shown and I would invite them to start engaging with forms of media that treat audiences as intelligent enough to be able to connect the dots themselves so they get a grasp on how implicit story-telling works.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Oh no it definitely implies they are discarded. The guy makes it very clear that he wants the player character to view them as tools and equipment, not as humans.

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited August 26
    I mean

    It's entirely possible that this will all be a dark but important commentary on the way modern society views lives as disposable assets (see things like the way Amazon treats warehouse workers, where they aren't even allowed bathroom breaks). Especially since Kojima has said that the main gameplay mechanic, and the main theme of the game, is connections with other people ("ropes"), as opposed to murderizing other people ("sticks")

    so... it's possible that the entire thing will be the question of "listen, is this worth it?" I think using women as factories to create disposable babies sounds like the opposite of "ropes" and very much a "solve the problem with sticks" thing.

    My own personal fear is that the game will get into a.) a debate on the ethics of abortion, and b.) the gross assertion that what makes women Special (TM) is their ability to Have Babies and Create New Life, That Is Why They Are Special And Different. You can see how those two things tie into each other: if the true specialness of a woman is her ability to ~create life~ or however you want to poeticize it, then it's pretty easy to go "well, whatever, even if she's brain dead her body can fulfill its purpose!" This is also where we get gross shit like demonizing women who cannot have babies for whatever reason (again, see Joss Whedon's gross take on Black Widow in that one Avengers film, where she's like "I'm a horrible monster because I can't have babies!!! and it can't possibly be because of my PTSD/trauma from being trained as a living weapon. Deffo the fact that I can't have babies.")

    I'm hoping the game's not going to go "abortion is bad!!!" but instead "treating all human lives as disposable is fucked up, including that of women, because women are people, not magic baby factories." Like that this whole thing with the BBs is proven to be a partial *cause* of the weird horrible shit that's going on, and that the solution is to treat people as people and form connections (bridges/ropes) with them that go beyond these ideas of biology.

    Basically, I get real damn nervous whenever men decide they're gonna write Deep Shit about reproduction and motherhood. I'm hoping that the game goes in the direction of "Actually, thinking of women this way is fucked up and also stupid, and we're using all this weird shenanigans to talk about the way that modern society does this to women" but uh... yeah.

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  • Genji-GlovesGenji-Gloves Registered User regular
    Doe a fetus, a shadow baby.....

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I mean

    It's entirely possible that this will all be a dark but important commentary on the way modern society views lives as disposable assets (see things like the way Amazon treats warehouse workers, where they aren't even allowed bathroom breaks). Especially since Kojima has said that the main gameplay mechanic, and the main theme of the game, is connections with other people ("ropes"), as opposed to murderizing other people ("sticks")

    so... it's possible that the entire thing will be the question of "listen, is this worth it?" I think using women as factories to create disposable babies sounds like the opposite of "ropes" and very much a "solve the problem with sticks" thing.

    My own personal fear is that the game will get into a.) a debate on the ethics of abortion, and b.) the gross assertion that what makes women Special (TM) is their ability to Have Babies and Create New Life, That Is Why They Are Special And Different. You can see how those two things tie into each other: if the true specialness of a woman is her ability to ~create life~ or however you want to poeticize it, then it's pretty easy to go "well, whatever, even if she's brain dead her body can fulfill its purpose!" This is also where we get gross shit like demonizing women who cannot have babies for whatever reason (again, see Joss Whedon's gross take on Black Widow in that one Avengers film, where she's like "I'm a horrible monster because I can't have babies!!! and it can't possibly be because of my PTSD/trauma from being trained as a living weapon. Deffo the fact that I can't have babies.")

    I'm hoping the game's not going to go "abortion is bad!!!" but instead "treating all human lives as disposable is fucked up, including that of women, because women are people, not magic baby factories." Like that this whole thing with the BBs is proven to be a partial *cause* of the weird horrible shit that's going on, and that the solution is to treat people as people and form connections (bridges/ropes) with them that go beyond these ideas of biology.

    Basically, I get real damn nervous whenever men decide they're gonna write Deep Shit about reproduction and motherhood. I'm hoping that the game goes in the direction of "Actually, thinking of women this way is fucked up and also stupid, and we're using all this weird shenanigans to talk about the way that modern society does this to women" but uh... yeah.

    Basically, Fury Road is awesome.

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  • Genji-GlovesGenji-Gloves Registered User regular
    I forget who it was but this year on giant bomb there was someone who had worked with Kojima that was on a podcast I think?

    Said the very first trailer where Norman Reedus was holding the baby then losing it was literally “Kojima making a statement on himself and loss of metal gear/work” If I find it I will post it up as it was quite interesting.

    That being said what ever statement that is intended to be addressed I hope it’s poignant and it sticks the landing. In MGS4 the beauty and beast unit all suffered with PTSD but screaming in skintight catsuits was one way to approach it I guess but it didn’t hit the mark for me. Like I said before I up for the craziness that a unleashed Kojima can do no matter how abstract and dark it gets.

    Also yes Fury Road is fantastic and regardless of the simple plot it is a excellent piece of cinematography.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Kojima has this tendency to go "What if tragedy......but sexy"

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I forget who it was but this year on giant bomb there was someone who had worked with Kojima that was on a podcast I think?

    Said the very first trailer where Norman Reedus was holding the baby then losing it was literally “Kojima making a statement on himself and loss of metal gear/work” If I find it I will post it up as it was quite interesting.

    That being said what ever statement that is intended to be addressed I hope it’s poignant and it sticks the landing. In MGS4 the beauty and beast unit all suffered with PTSD but screaming in skintight catsuits was one way to approach it I guess but it didn’t hit the mark for me. Like I said before I up for the craziness that a unleashed Kojima can do no matter how abstract and dark it gets.

    Also yes Fury Road is fantastic and regardless of the simple plot it is a excellent piece of cinematography.

    I mean, Fury Road is a piece of media that those last two paragraphs describes, while also dealing with similar concept matter.

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  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    I am excited to watch Kojima absolutely butcher this sensitive subject matter

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Yeah, I’m gonna say, baby farms were already a deeply uncomfortable topic to try to handle tastefully in a game with limited edition DLC gear you get for pre-ordering, but...if somehow this also ropes in a discussion on abortion in the aftermath of collapse of the society and massive population loss?

    I don’t know if that’s a subject for anyone to tackle. I just don’t think that line of discussion is going to merit anything redeeming whatsoever. I think it would be downright dishonest, frankly, to treat it as something worth exploring.

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  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    It also just keeps snowballing for me.

    Like

    I am surprised by how disturbed I am that it certainly seems that BB's are babies that are kind of stolen (who's the dads?) tricked into thinking they're still inside their mother, who is brain dead, and when they can't keep that ruse up anymore the babies are "disposed" of...

    ...and you can get one for yourself in the $200 collectors edition!

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    edited August 27
    There’s probably some really on the nose thing about the game being Kojima’s baby and he’s giving his babies away for people, who maybe play them for about a year before discarding them for a newer one.

    Let’s hope.

    EDIT: I’ve been reading the (admittedly fan-made) Wiki and it is not helping-particularly the matter-of-fact explanations on ‘stillmothers’ and discussion of the baby pods.

    There is a weird, tiny element at play of the need to keep the babies in their bubbles and unaware of their exterior environments that sounds like it could work in a good way, thematically, with the greater story of reconnecting humanity that Kojima has been claiming is core to the game, but that’s my read on something that could also be incidental.

    Linespider5 on
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    edited September 8
    I was most interested in this game when all we had was the earliest trailers, and every bit of new information since then has lessened my enthusiasm. The setting seemed to tap in to the existential dread of living in 2019 and feeling like there's probably no future. The images of oily beaches and dead sea life crossed with menacing supernatural entities seemed like a really smart and new aesthetic. Climate horror? Even the trailer that introduced the focus on AMERICA and the image of an Oval Office containing an hospital bed instead of a Resolute Desk was some pretty striking symbolism. But the moment I saw that clip with Guillermo del Toro explaining stuff to Norman Reedus, he lost me. It's that dumb info-dump mission briefing scene from literally every 80s action movie. I thought Kojima might have grown as a storyteller since Snatcher, and all he needed was an opportunity to do something besides Metal Gear, but he's still doing the same things he's always done. Supernatural sci-fi post-apocalyptic horror mystery can't be told in the same way as an action movie or political thriller.

    The Japanese cut of the character trailer was really weird, too. That cool song from the English trailer had screamy vocals over it, which completely changed the tone? And a couple extra shots of a monster foot crushing something? I really hope this game turns out to be something amazing, but if all the mystery aspects turn out to just be marketing and not plot, that's going to be a huge disappointment.

    GSM on
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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    I was most interested in this game when all we had was the earliest trailers, and every bit of new information since then has lessened my enthusiasm. The setting seemed to tap in to the existential dread of living in 2019 and feeling like there's probably no future. The images of oily beaches and dead sea life crossed with menacing supernatural entities seemed like a really smart and new aesthetic. Climate horror? Even the trailer that introduced the focus on AMERICA and the image of an Oval Office containing an hospital bed instead of a Resolute Desk was some pretty striking symbolism. But the moment I saw that clip with Guillermo del Toro explaining stuff to Norman Reedus, he lost me. It's that dumb info-dump mission briefing scene from literally every 80s action movie. I thought Kojima might have grown as a storyteller since Snatcher, and all he needed was an opportunity to do something besides Metal Gear, but he's still doing the same things he's always done. Supernatural sci-fi post-apocalyptic horror mystery can't be told in the same way as an action movie or political thriller.

    The Japanese cut of the character trailer was really weird, too. That cool song from the English trailer had screamy vocals over it, which completely changed the tone? And a couple extra shots of a monster foot crushing something? I really hope this game turns out to be something amazing, but if all the mystery aspects turn out to just be marketing and not plot, that's going to be a huge disappointment.

    I’m just gonna say: it’s a AAA game. There aren’t going to be any revelations. It may have some striking design ideas in it. But it is deeply unlikely to have some kind of Big Element in the story, even if everything so far casts such a shadow. It’s just not how these things are done.

    Expect at most a great game. Expect something fun for less than the price of a quality coffee table or pair of shoes. It’s fun to speculate, but see it for what it is.

    Zilla360
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Like, maybe it was a good thing we didn't get Silent Hills if it was going to have Harry Mason receiving a formal rundown of what his mission objectives in the Otherworld were, and how best to accomplish them.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    A small bit of news that I consider good: there's going to be a Very Easy mode in addition to Easy Mode, which is basically "Just the cutscenes, y'all." This is in part because a lot of the cast couldn't actually play the game -- they're not gamers, they lack the skillset for it.

    So basically Kojima went "Yeah I really do just want to make movies; this is a movie, where occasionally you press a button."

    And as somebody with a pretty severe learning disability, I'm actually 100% on board with that. There are some games that I am obscenely good at, and some games that are like "how does i shot web" and for the latter, sometimes I still want to have some experience of the storytelling, dangit.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Granted I haven't played MGS V (at this point, I'm a little afraid to) but I remember playing MGS 4 and thinking that every single cutscene needed to be at least half as long. And I'm a sucker for cutscenes.

    Kojima comes up with fascinating ideas, but his dialog is downright flabby.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    Like, maybe it was a good thing we didn't get Silent Hills if it was going to have Harry Mason receiving a formal rundown of what his mission objectives in the Otherworld were, and how best to accomplish them.

    I mean, there was nothing in PT to suggest it would go down that way. I don’t know if Kojima’s ever adapted/taken over a project/game series before, but I’d like to think that makes a difference in how he would have done it.

    el_vicio
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Granted I haven't played MGS V (at this point, I'm a little afraid to) but I remember playing MGS 4 and thinking that every single cutscene needed to be at least half as long. And I'm a sucker for cutscenes.

    Kojima comes up with fascinating ideas, but his dialog is downright flabby.

    I love Metal Gear, but 4 is overly long. I assume because it was his last Solid Snake game PLUS he had to wrap up like 50 plot threads he just threw everything in, but those codecs after every boss battle...ffs. Plus he never made a team as good as Liquid's FoxHound, the B&B team were not interesting.

    MGSV is the opposite, so much gameplay and it's great, but it needed MORE cutscenes or at least more dialog from Snake. Plus of course some of the ending is missing,

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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular


    So the massive gameplay trailer that drops tomorrow is NOT meant for people who are already in for the ride. I'm thinking of checking it out anyway just because I REALLY want to know just what the fuck the game is. . .but I REALLY want to discover the game myself like Kojima suggests.

    . . .at the very least he can recognize that he MIGHT need to do a bit to get buy-in from people who love MGSV but aren't totally sold on this just yet (because that Gamescom bit didn't do them any favors; other than the character trailers I mean).

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  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    The gameplay trailer dropping tomorrow is 49 minutes long.

    I will not be watching it but I would guess its like...

    5 min cutscene
    10 min Norman traversing the world doing a quest
    Norman dies
    5 min cutscene explaining the other world
    10 min other world gameplay

    And then there's still 19 minutes left so fuck this is very long

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Yea 49min is WAYYY too much for me to want to watch that.

    desc wrote: »
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  • Blitz RawketBlitz Rawket Registered User regular
    People have built "Walls" and become accustomed to living in isolation.

    "DEATH STRANDING" is a completely new type of action game, where the player's goal is to reconnect isolated cities and a fragmented society. All elements, including the story and gameplay, are bound together by the theme of "Strand," or connection.
    As Sam Porter Bridges, you will attempt to "Bridge" these divisions, and in doing so, create new bonds or "Strands" with other players around the globe.
    Through your experience playing the game, I hope you'll come to understand the true importance of forging connections with others.

    Now, please enjoy the latest Death Stranding trailer.

    Christ on a cracker can somebody unhook Kojima from the morphine tank full of his own farts? This after a deluge of tweets about this game an entire team of developers and A-LIST CELEBRITIES helped create, about how he "edited the whole trailer by himself." Sam Porter Bridges. Really. REALLY.

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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    I think you're reading way too much into that tweet. Guys native language isn't English so where you're scooping intent all I see is him saying he literally asked for gameplay footage so he could cut a gameplay demo.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    MG4 doesn't get enough credit as the game which brought together the great OTS 3rd person shooting with the more classic MGS1 stealth systems. All with a campaign significantly longer than average, multiple set pieces, and no backtracking. I play it more than MGS3 just due to the better shooting and variety available. It was the prototype to what you see now in Death Stranding.

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  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    the gameplay in mgs4 is amazing, probably my favorite of any mgs game. Pity that most of the game is absolutely terrible cutscenes then though

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    SAM. PORTER. BRIDGES. WHO WILL ATTEMPT TO BRIDGE.

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  • Blitz RawketBlitz Rawket Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    I think you're reading way too much into that tweet. Guys native language isn't English so where you're scooping intent all I see is him saying he literally asked for gameplay footage so he could cut a gameplay demo.

    It's not "reading into," it's just reading. I don't think I have to "scoop intent" when the picture with the attached quote includes his own damn autograph.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    We've known his name for a while now.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    We've known his name for a while now.

    The "who will attempt to bridge" thing is new to me.

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    mxmarks wrote: »
    The gameplay trailer dropping tomorrow is 49 minutes long.

    I will not be watching it but I would guess its like...

    5 min cutscene
    10 min Norman traversing the world doing a quest
    Norman dies
    5 min cutscene explaining the other world
    10 min other world gameplay

    And then there's still 19 minutes left so fuck this is very long

    48 minute opening cutscene(s), 1 minute title screen shown over the real world.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    I think you're reading way too much into that tweet. Guys native language isn't English so where you're scooping intent all I see is him saying he literally asked for gameplay footage so he could cut a gameplay demo.

    It's not "reading into," it's just reading. I don't think I have to "scoop intent" when the picture with the attached quote includes his own damn autograph.

    I mean I guess I don't get your complaint then. I saw a tweet about him actually working on the trailer, but the issue is with what looks like a signed poster?

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I’m gonna guess giving people 49 minutes of gameplay stuff is a nice infodump that can be dug into and spread around for the next couple of months until the game launches.

    I do wonder how much of the video may be showing the main character in isolation, traversing an unpopulated environment. Maybe a third of it? I could believe that.

  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    I think you're reading way too much into that tweet. Guys native language isn't English so where you're scooping intent all I see is him saying he literally asked for gameplay footage so he could cut a gameplay demo.

    It's not "reading into," it's just reading. I don't think I have to "scoop intent" when the picture with the attached quote includes his own damn autograph.

    I mean I guess I don't get your complaint then. I saw a tweet about him actually working on the trailer, but the issue is with what looks like a signed poster?

    Which tweet are you two talking about? In the one with the signed image, all he says is "please enjoy the trailer".

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Samantha America Strand 2020.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    The hackneyed pretentiousness, IT BURRRRRRRNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSS

    Edit: "If we Americans won't come together, humanity won't survive." *extended vomiting*

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  • ZavianZavian Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Registered User regular
    If this wasn't a Kojima game I can't see how anyone would be hyped for it based on what's been shown, like is there even any combat in this game? I'm still getting it at launch, but I think it will be interesting to see people's reactions if it turns out to be a weird walking/delivery sim with stealth elements compared to an action game like MGS

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