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[Canadian Politics] Shouldn't we talk about the weather?

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    Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Oh hey, it's time for Politicians in Cowboy Hats, 2017 Edition


    You know, as dumb as I personally think the event is, I really don't have a problem with politicians doing cowboy cosplay and serving pancakes to attendees.

    Yeah, embracing the local culture at a world famous major Canadian yearly event.

    Totes dumb.

    Yep, that was exactly what I said. Got it in one.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Decius wrote: »
    You know what, fuck the haters. I'm glad he showed up. Still looks better than Harper in a cowboy hat, which is saying something seeing considering he claimed he was from here and of the people.

    And in a suit. And in a sweater. And in a hockey jersey. And in a swimsuit. And in a toque. And. . .

    Well, you get the idea.

    Shadowhope on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    On that note they started showing those Ads for Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown on TV.

    My wife's first reaction is "Oh my god, another one? Do they not have anyone who doesn't look like a goddamn awkward bland white plastic man?"

    My response was "Hunny, it's the Conservatives. They are the party of bland white men. What do you want?"

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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    Well, by googling images for "harper stampede" I managed to find an even more awkward photo then that infamous one.
    harper-cowgirls.jpg

    The original and infamous one for comparison.
    harper_2005leather.jpeg

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    LoonyEclipseLoonyEclipse WWHRD? Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    Is there such a thing as a non-awkward photo of Harper?

    I mean, I'm not slagging him for this, some folks aren't photogenic (I'm not) and frankly, my issues with him stem from his policies, etc, not silly photos, but I've NEVER seen one where he seems at ease.

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    InvectivusInvectivus Registered User regular
    I do find it funny. How many heads of states would actually be allowed to not only be in the open with thousands of people, albeit, under security, but to work a grill serving people pancakes?

    You think Donald Trump would be doing that? Nope
    The way he's going, he's going to be serving Borscht out of the back of a truck :P

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    So, on the Canadian Hate and Bigotry side, the Toronto Public Library allowed far right bigots to use their facilities for a memoriam for Barbara Kulaszka, who had made a career of defending them.

    Now I get that the library's hands may have been legally tied with regards to denying the request. But I'm tired of the painting of allowing the commemoration of the defense of hate as upholding free speech, especially with how euphemisms are always used to soften the context of what is actually being defended. It is not something "objectionable", "distasteful", or "unpopular" (and that one rankles because many times, the issue is in part because it is popular.) It's bigotry and hate, and many times, it pushes the voices of the marginalized and dispossessed out. I'd imagine that there are people who will now think twice about going to the library there because of this, and that they don't feel safe there now.

    They were absolutely tied. The library should not discriminate among who wants to book their rooms; and I don't think we should discriminate against a lawyer who represented what is generally accepted as hate groups. They deserve equal representation before the law and if they want to honour the person defending them, so long as the event wasn't independently objectionable and promoting hate directly, let them do so

    But let's not pretend that this is a victory for free speech. I'm tired of all the euphemisms used when it comes to the argument that bigotry and hate should be tolerated in the name of "free speech" - if you believe that, have the intellectual honesty to say it outright. And when I hear about how people get displaced from communities because of bigotry and hate, I tend to wonder what's doing more damage. It's easy for someone like myself, a cisgender straight white man, to dismiss what allowing these groups in means - for the people that they attack on a regular basis, that's not as easy to put aside.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2017
    NAFTA objectives unveiled today by the US, in a digestible article by the CBC. You can read the full release here (pdf link) if you want the full 18 pages.

    Does seem to me they'd like us to stop winning trade resolution disputes:
    In an 18-page summary released Monday, the USTR outlines how the U.S. will seek to eliminate NAFTA's Chapter 19 dispute resolution panels. Canada uses these to appeal duties on things like softwood lumber, and the elimination of the panels was perceived as a potential red line for Canadian negotiators heading into the talks, expected to begin Aug. 17.

    ...

    What the U.S. is now seeking would eliminate Canada's ability to appeal this move to a NAFTA dispute panel. Canada could still appeal to the World Trade Organization, but winning in NAFTA arbitration is preferable to ensure duties are returned to Canadian producers, something a WTO win does not guarantee.

    Softwood Lumber, strangely enough, isn't mentioned in the document at all. Could have fucking fooled me over this past year.

    The article notes that the US seems to be focusing on trade imbalances, which isn't typically a focus of these types of trade deals. They'd also like to exempt subnational (state & local governments) units on the US side from any commitments negotiated, which just seems to fit with a protectionist bent of "you can't actually access our markets in this free trade deal".

    Aegis on
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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Aegis wrote: »
    NAFTA objectives unveiled today by the US, in a digestible article by the CBC. You can read the full release here (pdf link) if you want the full 18 pages.

    Does seem to me they'd like us to stop winning trade resolution disputes:
    In an 18-page summary released Monday, the USTR outlines how the U.S. will seek to eliminate NAFTA's Chapter 19 dispute resolution panels. Canada uses these to appeal duties on things like softwood lumber, and the elimination of the panels was perceived as a potential red line for Canadian negotiators heading into the talks, expected to begin Aug. 17.

    ...

    What the U.S. is now seeking would eliminate Canada's ability to appeal this move to a NAFTA dispute panel. Canada could still appeal to the World Trade Organization, but winning in NAFTA arbitration is preferable to ensure duties are returned to Canadian producers, something a WTO win does not guarantee.

    Softwood Lumber, strangely enough, isn't mentioned in the document at all. Could have fucking fooled me over this past year.

    The article notes that the US seems to be focusing on trade imbalances, which isn't typically a focus of these types of trade deals. They'd also like to exempt subnational (state & local governments) units on the US side from any commitments negotiated, which just seems to fit with a protectionist bent of "you can't actually access our markets in this free trade deal".

    Oh, they're going to start winning by mandating that we lose

    How quaint

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    NAFTA objectives unveiled today by the US, in a digestible article by the CBC. You can read the full release here (pdf link) if you want the full 18 pages.

    Does seem to me they'd like us to stop winning trade resolution disputes:
    In an 18-page summary released Monday, the USTR outlines how the U.S. will seek to eliminate NAFTA's Chapter 19 dispute resolution panels. Canada uses these to appeal duties on things like softwood lumber, and the elimination of the panels was perceived as a potential red line for Canadian negotiators heading into the talks, expected to begin Aug. 17.

    ...

    What the U.S. is now seeking would eliminate Canada's ability to appeal this move to a NAFTA dispute panel. Canada could still appeal to the World Trade Organization, but winning in NAFTA arbitration is preferable to ensure duties are returned to Canadian producers, something a WTO win does not guarantee.

    Softwood Lumber, strangely enough, isn't mentioned in the document at all. Could have fucking fooled me over this past year.

    The article notes that the US seems to be focusing on trade imbalances, which isn't typically a focus of these types of trade deals. They'd also like to exempt subnational (state & local governments) units on the US side from any commitments negotiated, which just seems to fit with a protectionist bent of "you can't actually access our markets in this free trade deal".

    Oh, they're going to start winning by mandating that we lose

    How quaint

    Yeah. This smells like total nonsense. It sounds more like, "We can do whatever we want, nyah," than an actual "deal".

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    NAFTA objectives unveiled today by the US, in a digestible article by the CBC. You can read the full release here (pdf link) if you want the full 18 pages.

    Does seem to me they'd like us to stop winning trade resolution disputes:
    In an 18-page summary released Monday, the USTR outlines how the U.S. will seek to eliminate NAFTA's Chapter 19 dispute resolution panels. Canada uses these to appeal duties on things like softwood lumber, and the elimination of the panels was perceived as a potential red line for Canadian negotiators heading into the talks, expected to begin Aug. 17.

    ...

    What the U.S. is now seeking would eliminate Canada's ability to appeal this move to a NAFTA dispute panel. Canada could still appeal to the World Trade Organization, but winning in NAFTA arbitration is preferable to ensure duties are returned to Canadian producers, something a WTO win does not guarantee.

    Softwood Lumber, strangely enough, isn't mentioned in the document at all. Could have fucking fooled me over this past year.

    The article notes that the US seems to be focusing on trade imbalances, which isn't typically a focus of these types of trade deals. They'd also like to exempt subnational (state & local governments) units on the US side from any commitments negotiated, which just seems to fit with a protectionist bent of "you can't actually access our markets in this free trade deal".

    Oh, they're going to start winning by mandating that we lose

    How quaint

    Yeah. This smells like total nonsense. It sounds more like, "We can do whatever we want, nyah," than an actual "deal".

    Ross has already made it clear that he's one of those Republicans who think we're some kind of vassal state. It's just stunning to see it in writing.

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Can we just, like, gather up all the "OMG TERRORIST PAYDAY" people and throw them into a volcano or something?

    The number of layers of outright lies needed to still push that angle after this long is infuriating.

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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    Or just force them to watch archival footage of the Maher Arar settlement, Clockwork Orange style, until they collectively climb off their high horse.

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    The interview with that soldier is fucking offensive.

    "even if his rights were violated that's worth 8 million dollars?"
    "he had a bad day at gitmo?"
    "Didn't have a shoulder to cry on at gitmo?"

    fuck you buddy.

    edit: and the cherry on top is the fox host somehow made it Obama's fault!

    Aridhol on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Andrew Weaver getting salty with the leader of the legislative press gallery in Victoria.

    :so_raven:
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Can we stop pretending like Michelle Rempel is any sort of intelligent, decent conservative now, just because she's a blonde white lady who knows how to use Twitter?

    Oh look, she sassily Tweeted something that possibly alludes to her having empathy for other women. Wow, what a standout exemplar of compassionate conservative virtue.

    hippofant on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Can we stop pretending like Michelle Rempel is any sort of intelligent, decent conservative now, just because she's a blonde white lady who knows how to use Twitter?

    Oh look, she sassily Tweeted something that possibly alludes to her having empathy for other women. Wow, what a standout exemplar of compassionate conservative virtue.

    I mean, it is a standout example of the extent of conservative compassion to be fair. It's as good as it gets.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    I agreed with an Andrew Scheer stance today.

    I'm choosing to believe I'm actually agreeing with James Spader, since I swear to god every time I see a picture of Scheer all I can see is Daniel Jackson.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    I agreed with an Andrew Scheer stance today.

    I'm choosing to believe I'm actually agreeing with James Spader, since I swear to god every time I see a picture of Scheer all I can see is Daniel Jackson.

    Was that stance. "You know.. I really like Pizza" ?

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    LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    Andrew Weaver getting salty with the leader of the legislative press gallery in Victoria.


    What's this all about?

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2017
    LaOs wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Andrew Weaver getting salty with the leader of the legislative press gallery in Victoria.


    What's this all about?

    He's replying to a climate change denier alongside some others within the twitter thread.
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    I agreed with an Andrew Scheer stance today.

    I'm choosing to believe I'm actually agreeing with James Spader, since I swear to god every time I see a picture of Scheer all I can see is Daniel Jackson.

    Was that stance. "You know.. I really like Pizza" ?

    Scheer's committing to appointing Conservative Senators for the purposes of helping to advance his agenda, were he to become PM, rather than continuing on with this "independent" Senator nonsense that serves to do nothing but obfuscate why and how an individual Senator is voting for something.

    Aegis on
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    CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    I agreed with an Andrew Scheer stance today.

    I'm choosing to believe I'm actually agreeing with James Spader, since I swear to god every time I see a picture of Scheer all I can see is Daniel Jackson.

    Was that stance. "You know.. I really like Pizza" ?

    Scheer's committing to appointing Conservative Senators for the purposes of helping to advance his agenda, were he to become PM, rather than continuing on with this "independent" Senator nonsense that serves to do nothing but obfuscate why and how an individual Senator is voting for something.

    You think going back to the days of appointing grossly unqualified party bagmen to the Senate is a *good* idea? That somehow Senators voting for stuff for unknown reasons is worse than Senators voting for something because the PM told them to?

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    CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Meanwhile in my tiny neck of the woods, this happened:

    http://www.westerlynews.ca/news/ucluelet-first-nation-members-shut-down-government-building-and-call-for-presidents-resignation/

    Not sure what TL:DR I could take from that for you, please read the link.

    steam_sig.png
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Meanwhile in my tiny neck of the woods, this happened:

    http://www.westerlynews.ca/news/ucluelet-first-nation-members-shut-down-government-building-and-call-for-presidents-resignation/

    Not sure what TL:DR I could take from that for you, please read the link.

    I read the article but not sure I grasp the context.

    Is the current govt. doing some shady stuff or is this grumpiness from a previous govt. not being included in decisions?
    I know more about nuclear engineering than I do about FN political structures.

    Someone do a primer!

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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    LaOs wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Andrew Weaver getting salty with the leader of the legislative press gallery in Victoria.


    What's this all about?


    A legistlative reporter who thinks he knows climate science better than Weaver is attempting to argue with him about it.

    :so_raven:
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    CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Meanwhile in my tiny neck of the woods, this happened:

    http://www.westerlynews.ca/news/ucluelet-first-nation-members-shut-down-government-building-and-call-for-presidents-resignation/

    Not sure what TL:DR I could take from that for you, please read the link.

    I read the article but not sure I grasp the context.

    Is the current govt. doing some shady stuff or is this grumpiness from a previous govt. not being included in decisions?
    I know more about nuclear engineering than I do about FN political structures.

    Someone do a primer!

    Well, the thing is, their political structure is their own, so a primer on another nation within our nation would not necessarily be applicable. Even for the members of this small local First Nation (about 650 citizens, a significant portion of whom live outside their treaty lands aka formerly the reservation or Ukee East) they are in some ways learning as they go how to govern themselves by the constitution and laws they formed with many years of consultation between elders, chief, council, counsel, and fed/provincial government.

    In many ways, protesting how the president Les Dorion is going about managing the affairs of their young self governance is an important step in getting the their laws changed to better represent how they want to be governed as they implement the steps towards self governance as a member nation of the Malnuth Treaty.

    Beyond that, I am wondering how much I can say, if you look back at past posts I have made in this thread if you were so inclined, you would discover I have said as much before because these difficult issues with self governance my wife has been wrestling with since she was elected. I don't want to expose her to liable or break any of her own laws on what information she can publicly share as a Executive Legislature member.

    I know this I can say though, as it is supposed to be already a matter of public record, the freedom of information requests are the result of a few factors. There used to be a newspaper for the UFN that they started during implementation to better inform their citizens of the activities, services, decisions, events, etc of their nation that would come out once a month. President Les Dorion changed the Director of Operations (see: let go in a manner that many people in this small community felt was disrespectful and damaged our reputation as an employer) and the previous Chief Financial Officer (who apparently left of their own volition) a year after he was elected, they've been elected 2 years now into a 4 year term. The Director of Operations Iris Frank he had a replacement for almost instantly, for all intents and purposes it appeared to be planned, that was Rhonda Knockwood who is mentioned in the news article - she is a relation of Les Dorion's current and second wife. The recently let go CFO mentioned in the article is Peter (forgot the last name, sorry) who was the eventual replacement for Tamara Nelson. Up to that point, things mostly ran like they had before under the previous President's Chuck McCarthy government, though I am having trouble remembering when Les Dorion changed up the board overseeing their nation's economic development corporation, I think it was around this time, around 2015-2016. 2016 to Present is when we get back to the newspaper as a means of communication between the governing and the governed, the newspaper's staff was changed and reduced, it went from being monthly to intermittent and really just a newsletter that seemed to mostly feature "A word from your President" and Les Dorion's face. That's about the time when citizens really started getting suspicious of President Les Dorion's decisions/meetings/budget votes, others elected to the UFN Legistature, and the new Director of Operations. So, they tried the approaches they had in the past, just go into the office and talk out their concerns ... only they could never seem to get a meeting, the President or Director of Operations always seemed to be away, and the Legistature positions don't hold an office really, they are paid part time for the meetings they attend. Those concerns? Why were so many meetings being held "in camera" was just the first red flag. But then some started to wonder why the President was away so often, who was paying for his trips to all these conferences for things like treaty negotiation, didn't we already finish that part we're supposed to be well into implementation of the Malnuth Treaty at this point? That's when the Freedom of Information requests started pouring in.

    That's where this sad tale takes another turn, the requests were very slowly fulfilled (taking months IIRC for things like meeting minutes) and even when the information arrived, it was heavily redacted, and in some cases, not even what was requested. I think a very heated Annual General Meeting takes place around this time and that's when the Voice of Yuułuʔiłʔatḥ facebook group kinda took shape, that is who mostly showed up at the protest featured in the news article. There were questions about all sorts of things, like why a lack luster poorly detailed proposal for a gas station right beside an important water shed and water reservoir for the neighbouring Ucluelet was still being considered by the acting CEOs consultant group and why was Rhonda mixing personal fish catch with the fish food catch being sent to be processed that the nation is paying for and so on. Towards the end of the AGM, the people used their laws to vote on and pass a motion asking for Recall legislation to be researched, proposed, and enacted. It was overwhelmingly passed, like IIRC it was 60 yays against 6 nays and only like a couple citizens abstaining.

    I think that is about as much as I can say that is public record and I don't want to come off as a white dude coming to the rescue of first nations people, I just care about the stress my wife is being put under by being an elected official under these conditions who is just trying her damnedest to honour her grandma Barbara Touchie's memory and serve her people dutifully by holding to her convictions. Suffice it to say, I don't much care for how Les Dorion has treated her in these matters as a member of their Executive Legistature. Much more I should probably leave for others to come to their own conclusions if they look into it further.

    If further resources are needed for research in this matter, I'm not sure how to link the public facebook group, but there is the government website as a online resource that might help further understanding as well http://www.ufn.ca/

    Ugh, still not sure how to TL:DR this, I think I am too close to the matter. Thanks for taking a look at this bit of Canadian news.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    The only bits of information I can find out about online through media reports regarding Ucluelet First Nation are about Les Doiron's election, the Hereditary Chief's sanctions due to elk poaching last year, the appointment of Les Doiron to a board, and the introduction of a living wage within Ucluelet just last month (though it seemed a bit strange it was just for Government workers there). The video does mention transparency issues, but there doesn't seem to be much media discussion out there about the details of the transparency issues or the history leading up to this protest. Before your more detailed post, I thought it was a bit odd that transparency would be the key issue here (Doiron's position in that article that was linked was that it was due to a relative of his and about the firing of the Chief Financial Officer which he says he can't talk about due to Privacy laws).

    So thanks for that detailed look at things, it helps put the issues into more of a context.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Thank you for sharing what you could, I appreciate it.

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    CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Augh, I want to say more, there is more to this story but ... hmm, maybe the best way to put it was I heard many were pleasantly surprised when Peter, the recently fired CFO, turned out to be an honourable, professional man willing to say if he thought something wasn't being done in a properly accountable fashion. He had a good reputation which he earned conducting himself in a manner that earned the trust of quite a few people in a short amount of time. Things like auditing, expenditure approvals, and access to trust funds have people understandably concerned now that he has been let go.

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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/alberta-pcs-and-wildrose-vote-to-merge-as-united-conservative-party-1.3514601?autoPlay=true

    So this is happening. I can't stress enough the outright hatred some people have for Notley and the NDP.

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    DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    There's a pile of hate, but it seems like there's a lot of people within the right wing coalition who are holding their noses for now as well. I think there'll be another Wildrose type schism or grass roots party to represent people on the far right again since the new party can't go full right wing crazy in order to keep the center happy.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Conservatives seem to have a problem with making good acronyms

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I tried for 20 minutes to come up with an acronym that spelled cunts but couldn't.


    But..... They're cunts.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Conservatives seem to have a problem with making good acronyms

    Thanks, now I'm never going to unsee that.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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    hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    We have a magnificent number of people in this province that are completely immune to the knowledge that our financial and infrastructure problems predate the NDP.

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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    hawkbox wrote: »
    We have a magnificent number of people in this province that are completely immune to the knowledge that our financial and infrastructure problems predate the NDP.

    Sadly that's what happens when you hand out $90,000+/yr jobs to people who barely achieved a high school education; they lack a grasp of the real world.

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    DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Decius wrote: »
    hawkbox wrote: »
    We have a magnificent number of people in this province that are completely immune to the knowledge that our financial and infrastructure problems predate the NDP.

    Sadly that's what happens when you hand out $90,000+/yr jobs to people who barely achieved a high school education; they lack a grasp of the real world.

    Doctors then?

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    FrostwoodFrostwood Registered User regular
    Decius wrote: »
    hawkbox wrote: »
    We have a magnificent number of people in this province that are completely immune to the knowledge that our financial and infrastructure problems predate the NDP.

    Sadly that's what happens when you hand out $90,000+/yr jobs to people who barely achieved a high school education; they lack a grasp of the real world.

    I don't think education matters-school rarely reflects the real world.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Frostwood wrote: »
    Decius wrote: »
    hawkbox wrote: »
    We have a magnificent number of people in this province that are completely immune to the knowledge that our financial and infrastructure problems predate the NDP.

    Sadly that's what happens when you hand out $90,000+/yr jobs to people who barely achieved a high school education; they lack a grasp of the real world.

    I don't think education matters-school rarely reflects the real world.

    Actually educational attainment is generally a fairly strong predictor of your political views.

This discussion has been closed.