The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
Is there a single province with good provincial government right now?
BC and Ontario's lines of constant fuckups are well-known. Alberta's NDP are, granted, in a very bad position through no fault of their own, but they're not exactly digging themselves out of it. Saskatchewan has a climate-change-denier in power. Québec has an austerity-slut. NS decided to shut down schools in response to the teacher union deciding not to go on strike. PEI is just now getting on-board with the whole "abortions are legal" thing.
The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
Apparently bunch of Ontario NDPers quit the party recently too, after Horwath came out against John Tory's road tolls plan, and they were like, "Who the fuck party are we any more?"
Which, more generally, fuck off Brown and Horwath. If Toronto wants to implement road tolls, fuck the hell right off and let them. We do not need fucking bullshit petty regionalist politics screwing with the country's biggest city and economic engine right now, or you know, fucking ever. If you wanted to fucking dictate local Toronto governance, then fucking run for mayor, assholes. Being premier doesn't make you fucking God-Emperor of Everything in Ontario.
It's absolutely preposterous how hard Horwath and Brown are utterly abandoning their party's principles and tacking to the centre - or what they perceive to be the centre - to try and win elections, by giving up everything their parties stand for. The Liberals have been in power too long, but the sheer lack of integrity and leadership from everyone else is mind-boggling.
This could be the most important and best bill of the next year. I hate the time change so much.
I have several issues with this. I, in theory, love the idea of getting rid of Daylight Saving Time. but the ideas here are so bad.
First, I thing this needs to be done at a national level. with all due respect to Saskatchewan, who I do commend for not observing DST, I think it does need to be all or none. The plan here would have Alberta basically adopt Saskatchewan Time (more on that below), which means during the winter there would be a two hour time difference with BC, which is absurd. There are a lot of corporate offices in Alberta, and not changing clocks when almost everyone else does will complicate matters there.
Second, this isn't actually abolishing DST, The talk is that they would keep the clocks on DST year found. If we're not going to change clocks, it should be on what the actual internationally recognized time is, not the made up time. the reasons for DST were originally to give farmers more light in the evening during the summer to work, which is less of an issue since the advent of lights, and to reduce electricity use, it actually has the opposite effect. Indiana observed DST for the first time in 2008 and saw electricity use *rise* instead of fall.
In alberta, especially Edmonton North, I don't think people quite understand that sure staying on DST means that in mid December the sun would stay up until 5:30, but it also means that the sun won't rise until almost 10am.
Everyone is trying to make this into getting more hours of sunlight, which it doesn't do. I for one really don't want to see sunrise at 9:48 on December 21, even if it means that the sun is not quite down when I leave work, instead of just going down.
tl;dr: I really hate DST, I hate the time change, but the plan as proposed is dumb on several levels.
This could be the most important and best bill of the next year. I hate the time change so much.
I have several issues with this. I, in theory, love the idea of getting rid of Daylight Saving Time. but the ideas here are so bad.
First, I thing this needs to be done at a national level. with all due respect to Saskatchewan, who I do commend for not observing DST, I think it does need to be all or none. The plan here would have Alberta basically adopt Saskatchewan Time (more on that below), which means during the winter there would be a two hour time difference with BC, which is absurd. There are a lot of corporate offices in Alberta, and not changing clocks when almost everyone else does will complicate matters there.
Second, this isn't actually abolishing DST, The talk is that they would keep the clocks on DST year found. If we're not going to change clocks, it should be on what the actual internationally recognized time is, not the made up time. the reasons for DST were originally to give farmers more light in the evening during the summer to work, which is less of an issue since the advent of lights, and to reduce electricity use, it actually has the opposite effect. Indiana observed DST for the first time in 2008 and saw electricity use *rise* instead of fall.
In alberta, especially Edmonton North, I don't think people quite understand that sure staying on DST means that in mid December the sun would stay up until 5:30, but it also means that the sun won't rise until almost 10am.
Everyone is trying to make this into getting more hours of sunlight, which it doesn't do. I for one really don't want to see sunrise at 9:48 on December 21, even if it means that the sun is not quite down when I leave work, instead of just going down.
tl;dr: I really hate DST, I hate the time change, but the plan as proposed is dumb on several levels.
Ya, when I heard we were considering getting rid of DST, I had just assumed that we'd be GETTING RID of DST, not adopting it as the new standard. That is both dumb, and bad. If we're going to pick a hill to die on regarding time, it should be the same hill as recognized by the rest of the world.
I'm not sure where to look up that information (and don't really have the time at work) but do we Albertans do more trade with SK or BC?
BouwsT on
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
This could be the most important and best bill of the next year. I hate the time change so much.
I have several issues with this. I, in theory, love the idea of getting rid of Daylight Saving Time. but the ideas here are so bad.
First, I thing this needs to be done at a national level. with all due respect to Saskatchewan, who I do commend for not observing DST, I think it does need to be all or none. The plan here would have Alberta basically adopt Saskatchewan Time (more on that below), which means during the winter there would be a two hour time difference with BC, which is absurd. There are a lot of corporate offices in Alberta, and not changing clocks when almost everyone else does will complicate matters there.
Second, this isn't actually abolishing DST, The talk is that they would keep the clocks on DST year found. If we're not going to change clocks, it should be on what the actual internationally recognized time is, not the made up time. the reasons for DST were originally to give farmers more light in the evening during the summer to work, which is less of an issue since the advent of lights, and to reduce electricity use, it actually has the opposite effect. Indiana observed DST for the first time in 2008 and saw electricity use *rise* instead of fall.
In alberta, especially Edmonton North, I don't think people quite understand that sure staying on DST means that in mid December the sun would stay up until 5:30, but it also means that the sun won't rise until almost 10am.
Everyone is trying to make this into getting more hours of sunlight, which it doesn't do. I for one really don't want to see sunrise at 9:48 on December 21, even if it means that the sun is not quite down when I leave work, instead of just going down.
tl;dr: I really hate DST, I hate the time change, but the plan as proposed is dumb on several levels.
Ya, when I heard we were considering getting rid of DST, I had just assumed that we'd be GETTING RID of DST, not adopting it as the new standard. That is both dumb, and bad. If we're going to pick a hill to die on regarding time, it should be the same hill as recognized by the rest of the world.
I'm not sure where to look up that information (and don't really have the time at work) but do we Albertans do more trade with SK or BC?
This is an educated guess but I'd assume BC, since they have 4x the population of Saskatchewan, more resources, more amenities, larger Urban Centers and a coast.
the reasons for DST were originally to give farmers more light in the evening during the summer to work, which is less of an issue since the advent of lights, and to reduce electricity use, it actually has the opposite effect. Indiana observed DST for the first time in 2008 and saw electricity use *rise* instead of fall.
What's that? An excuse to post a Last Week Tonight clip?! Don't mind if I do!
The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
Apparently bunch of Ontario NDPers quit the party recently too, after Horwath came out against John Tory's road tolls plan, and they were like, "Who the fuck party are we any more?"
Which, more generally, fuck off Brown and Horwath. If Toronto wants to implement road tolls, fuck the hell right off and let them. We do not need fucking bullshit petty regionalist politics screwing with the country's biggest city and economic engine right now, or you know, fucking ever. If you wanted to fucking dictate local Toronto governance, then fucking run for mayor, assholes. Being premier doesn't make you fucking God-Emperor of Everything in Ontario.
It's absolutely preposterous how hard Horwath and Brown are utterly abandoning their party's principles and tacking to the centre - or what they perceive to be the centre - to try and win elections, by giving up everything their parties stand for. The Liberals have been in power too long, but the sheer lack of integrity and leadership from everyone else is mind-boggling.
But that's a tradition in Ontario politics. God forbid the provincial government ever support the city.
The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
Apparently bunch of Ontario NDPers quit the party recently too, after Horwath came out against John Tory's road tolls plan, and they were like, "Who the fuck party are we any more?"
Which, more generally, fuck off Brown and Horwath. If Toronto wants to implement road tolls, fuck the hell right off and let them. We do not need fucking bullshit petty regionalist politics screwing with the country's biggest city and economic engine right now, or you know, fucking ever. If you wanted to fucking dictate local Toronto governance, then fucking run for mayor, assholes. Being premier doesn't make you fucking God-Emperor of Everything in Ontario.
It's absolutely preposterous how hard Horwath and Brown are utterly abandoning their party's principles and tacking to the centre - or what they perceive to be the centre - to try and win elections, by giving up everything their parties stand for. The Liberals have been in power too long, but the sheer lack of integrity and leadership from everyone else is mind-boggling.
But that's a tradition in Ontario politics. God forbid the provincial government ever support the city.
You know what, I'll say this for Harris (in general), as opposed to Brown (on this matter, and probably in general): at least he tried to do something. You might not have liked some of the shit he did, you might hate amalgamation, and the downloading of transit costs, and whatever, but Harris had a plan for how he wanted Toronto to operate and he tried to implement that plan. Brown's got nothing but pure objectionism; he opposes road tolls, he opposes property taxes, he opposes hydro privatization; he isn't fucking for anything. It's not that he wants to do something; he just wants to be in charge of doing stuff!
And to be fair, Horwath came out later and pledged to restore Ontario's transit subsidy for the TTC and pushed for property tax increases in lieu of road tolls. Which is why I still place her well above Brown, except having her MPPs symbolically vote against allowing Toronto to implement road tolls was still grandstanding bullshit.
The BC government's line of constant fuckups is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better about the Ontario government's line of constant fuckups. Does BC have much alternatives to the sitting party? I know that's part of the problem in Ontario. Neither the Cons nor the NDP have managed to offer up anything you can feel happy voting about. In particular I'm having a hard time forgetting the NDP maneuvering themselves out of any power as swing in a minority government by triggering an election and the Liberals ending up with a majority.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
Apparently bunch of Ontario NDPers quit the party recently too, after Horwath came out against John Tory's road tolls plan, and they were like, "Who the fuck party are we any more?"
Which, more generally, fuck off Brown and Horwath. If Toronto wants to implement road tolls, fuck the hell right off and let them. We do not need fucking bullshit petty regionalist politics screwing with the country's biggest city and economic engine right now, or you know, fucking ever. If you wanted to fucking dictate local Toronto governance, then fucking run for mayor, assholes. Being premier doesn't make you fucking God-Emperor of Everything in Ontario.
It's absolutely preposterous how hard Horwath and Brown are utterly abandoning their party's principles and tacking to the centre - or what they perceive to be the centre - to try and win elections, by giving up everything their parties stand for. The Liberals have been in power too long, but the sheer lack of integrity and leadership from everyone else is mind-boggling.
But that's a tradition in Ontario politics. God forbid the provincial government ever support the city.
You know what, I'll say this for Harris (in general), as opposed to Brown (on this matter, and probably in general): at least he tried to do something. You might not have liked some of the shit he did, you might hate amalgamation, and the downloading of transit costs, and whatever, but Harris had a plan for how he wanted Toronto to operate and he tried to implement that plan. Brown's got nothing but pure objectionism; he opposes road tolls, he opposes property taxes, he opposes hydro privatization; he isn't fucking for anything. It's not that he wants to do something; he just wants to be in charge of doing stuff!
And to be fair, Horwath came out later and pledged to restore Ontario's transit subsidy for the TTC and pushed for property tax increases in lieu of road tolls. Which is why I still place her well above Brown, except having her MPPs symbolically vote against allowing Toronto to implement road tolls was still grandstanding bullshit.
Having a shitty plan buys you nothing in my books.
The problem remains that Toronto's needs and issues extend beyond the limits of the city itself but there's no way and seemingly no will to cooperate at a larger scale. Getting all the cities and towns and such together would be a clusterfuck and the provincial government is either useless or actively hostile.
Ya BC has been a well known joke for a while, and we can't even fix it, our last election here in the Okanagan, was basically a ton of people voting against Christie Clark....
Then the majority vote person totally stepped down at last second to hand his seat to .....
Christie Clark.
Like it's so corrupt it's not even funny out here.
Ugh! She drives me nuts and I've only lived here for a year. I'm kinda hoping I'm still in Langley City when the provincial election comes around because there's at least a chance that we'll vote NDP (Not Langley Township, but City might). Looking to move to Abbotsford for work reasons and I'm pretty sure that's safe ProvLib territory.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
Ya BC has been a well known joke for a while, and we can't even fix it, our last election here in the Okanagan, was basically a ton of people voting against Christie Clark....
Then the majority vote person totally stepped down at last second to hand his seat to .....
Christie Clark.
Like it's so corrupt it's not even funny out here.
wut
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Caulk Bite 6One of the multitude of Dans infesting this placeRegistered Userregular
Like, did the person who stepped down at least have a scandal worth doing that for, or...
Ya BC has been a well known joke for a while, and we can't even fix it, our last election here in the Okanagan, was basically a ton of people voting against Christie Clark....
Then the majority vote person totally stepped down at last second to hand his seat to .....
Christie Clark.
Like it's so corrupt it's not even funny out here.
I was living in Christy Clark's former riding at the time of the election, and am proud to say I helped vote her out.
Like, did the person who stepped down at least have a scandal worth doing that for, or...
No scandal so far as I'm aware. This sort of thing is fairly common in parliamentary politics - if a party leader loses their seat but their party forms the government, a backbencher will usually step down to ensure the leader remains Premier.
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
Not that the anti-pipeline line wasn't complete bullshit, but how has Trudeau built more pipelines than Harper? AFAIK, Trudeau has just approved one of the three pipeline projects on his desk (and is likely to block the other two), and hasn't actually built anything yet. Not sure what Harper built, but if it's greater than zero (it might not be) it'd be more than Trudeau so far. Though not really a fair argument, stacking up Harper's 10 years to Trudeau's 1.
Good to know that we still have people capable of reading the minds of politicians.
I grew up being told actions speak louder then words.
When did that change?
It never was. Politics can frequently be more about culture and being part of an in-group then policy.
Trudeau is obviously more anti-pipeline because oil-stuff is a conservative thing.
He spent a fair bit of political capital getting the pipelines built under what I can only assume is the assumption that Hillary would win and keystone was sunk.
Now that it's pretty much sure thing that it IS being built under Trump I do wonder how much Trudeau really wants it. He's already alienated some of the more pro-environment liberals.
PSN: Canadian_llama
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Finally an area where Canada out innovated the USA politically, we were deleting government data long before them with the Long Gun Registry, and then ruining our Census Data.
You deleted your climate data years ago. Why you let us steal your ideas, I'll never know.
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
Not that the anti-pipeline line wasn't complete bullshit, but how has Trudeau built more pipelines than Harper? AFAIK, Trudeau has just approved one of the three pipeline projects on his desk (and is likely to block the other two), and hasn't actually built anything yet. Not sure what Harper built, but if it's greater than zero (it might not be) it'd be more than Trudeau so far. Though not really a fair argument, stacking up Harper's 10 years to Trudeau's 1.
He approved two pipelines. Tran-mountain and Line 3 (more of an expansion but still) and rejected northern gateway.
Good to know that we still have people capable of reading the minds of politicians.
Well it's not really mind-reading. Trudeau is actually reviewing and evaluating the pipeline applications and holding consultations with all affected parties. Harper gutted environmental regulations and ignored all land ownership claims and streamlined the application process so much he basically turned it into a government rubber stamp and gave that stamp to the industry and did everything short of changing his middle name to "Pipeline". He definitely wanted those pipelines. Whether he was actually effective at getting them is a different matter entirely, and whether they benefited Canada and Canadians is yet a third question. But to his credit, I have never once in my life doubted Stephen Harper's want for more pipelines.
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
"Then you should make me PM, because I want it the mostest, idiot.."
hippofant on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Good to know that we still have people capable of reading the minds of politicians.
Well it's not really mind-reading. Trudeau is actually reviewing and evaluating the pipeline applications and holding consultations with all affected parties. Harper gutted environmental regulations and ignored all land ownership claims and streamlined the application process so much he basically turned it into a government rubber stamp and gave that stamp to the industry and did everything short of changing his middle name to "Pipeline". He definitely wanted those pipelines. Whether he was actually effective at getting them is a different matter entirely, and whether they benefited Canada and Canadians is yet a third question. But to his credit, I have never once in my life doubted Stephen Harper's want for more pipelines.
It's a pretty easy turnaround in discussion, though.
So he wanted pipelines, but was so lame duck he couldn't get any?
Good to know that we still have people capable of reading the minds of politicians.
Well it's not really mind-reading. Trudeau is actually reviewing and evaluating the pipeline applications and holding consultations with all affected parties. Harper gutted environmental regulations and ignored all land ownership claims and streamlined the application process so much he basically turned it into a government rubber stamp and gave that stamp to the industry and did everything short of changing his middle name to "Pipeline". He definitely wanted those pipelines. Whether he was actually effective at getting them is a different matter entirely, and whether they benefited Canada and Canadians is yet a third question. But to his credit, I have never once in my life doubted Stephen Harper's want for more pipelines.
It's a pretty easy turnaround in discussion, though.
So he wanted pipelines, but was so lame duck he couldn't get any?
For real though, he tried to force them down people's throat. Keystone was done in the most forceful fashion and refused to change their routes originally. That's what caused the backlash in the US against it. Same thing with Northern gateway.
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
What is "alive and well"?
Is it people voting for the Conservatives even when they are blatantly lying to them?
Is it people not protesting the Liberals when they aren't showing progress?
Or is it simply when a media group is specifically peddling manipulative half-truths or outright propaganda?
Because we're always going to have the ranters. Hell, sometimes we are the ranters and we know the only way to avoid being one permanently and graduate to the status of ideological nutcase is not to stubbornly double down on our "opinions" in the face of clear evidence of their dissonance from the hard earned data that came from reputable sources.
I think if some guy ranting at the Xmas party is your standard for "alive and well" cognitive dissonance in Canada, that's never going to change significantly. *shrugs*
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
What is "alive and well"?
Is it people voting for the Conservatives even when they are blatantly lying to them?
Is it people not protesting the Liberals when they aren't showing progress?
Or is it simply when a media group is specifically peddling manipulative half-truths or outright propaganda?
Because we're always going to have the ranters. Hell, sometimes we are the ranters and we know the only way to avoid being one permanently and graduate to the status of ideological nutcase is not to stubbornly double down on our "opinions" in the face of clear evidence of their dissonance from the hard earned data that came from reputable sources.
I think if some guy ranting at the Xmas party is your standard for "alive and well" cognitive dissonance in Canada, that's never going to change significantly. *shrugs*
Believing that the Liberals are anti-pipeline while having approved more than the conservatives who are "pro" pipeline is pretty much the definition of cognitive dissonance. American politics and this past election have really brought the attitude of if enough people believe something to be true it trumps (!) facts/reality.
The same applies to Alberta politics and the NDP. People are up in arms about Notley being anti oilsands while the truth is that the provincial carbon tax and regimentation changes have led to a new pipeline that the oil patch has been demanding for years.
The rise of fake news/fluff and the death of actual journalism because of the lack of revenue is a real problem that is only making the current wild ride of world politics even worse.
Believing that the Liberals are anti-pipeline while having approved more than the conservatives who are "pro" pipeline is pretty much the definition of cognitive dissonance.
It's not the definition of cognitive dissonance at all. Holding contradictory beliefs causes cognitive dissonance, it's not CD itself. And honestly, the beliefs in this case aren't even necessarily contradictory if you believe the Liberals approved the pipelines reluctantly because they can't see any other path to improving the Albertan economy in the near term, whereas the Conservatives were all "Fuck yeah, pipelines!" Although, I suspect that would just be someone's way of resolving the dissonance.
disclaimer: this is me playing a bit of devil's advocate here, because the issue absolutely isn't this black or white, but remember, all of these pipeline proposals were submitted while the conservatives were in power, but in some cases, the regulatory reviews weren't complete until after the Liberals took power. The conservatives created a framework for approvals and those processes weren't done when they lost power, in some instances.
Now, the conservatives do hold some fault for some stupidity in their framework, and they absolutely did drag their heels, but there is still partial truth in the fact that the Liberals simply got to rubber stamp (or turn down) things that were years in the making, well before they took power. It is a political win that they get to say they approved the pipelines, but these were in the works long before they took power.
disclaimer: this is me playing a bit of devil's advocate here, because the issue absolutely isn't this black or white, but remember, all of these pipeline proposals were submitted while the conservatives were in power, but in some cases, the regulatory reviews weren't complete until after the Liberals took power. The conservatives created a framework for approvals and those processes weren't done when they lost power, in some instances.
Now, the conservatives do hold some fault for some stupidity in their framework, and they absolutely did drag their heels, but there is still partial truth in the fact that the Liberals simply got to rubber stamp (or turn down) things that were years in the making, well before they took power. It is a political win that they get to say they approved the pipelines, but these were in the works long before they took power.
They had a decade in power to get things done yet the liberals actually approved them the first year in power. You are definitely right that the conservatives got the ball rolling but I truly believe that they only got approved because the liberals actually compromised on some measures instead of Harpers hard line tactics.
Funny enough, the pipelines might actually lose liberals some votes in BC while not gaining them any here in AB.
disclaimer: this is me playing a bit of devil's advocate here, because the issue absolutely isn't this black or white, but remember, all of these pipeline proposals were submitted while the conservatives were in power, but in some cases, the regulatory reviews weren't complete until after the Liberals took power. The conservatives created a framework for approvals and those processes weren't done when they lost power, in some instances.
Now, the conservatives do hold some fault for some stupidity in their framework, and they absolutely did drag their heels, but there is still partial truth in the fact that the Liberals simply got to rubber stamp (or turn down) things that were years in the making, well before they took power. It is a political win that they get to say they approved the pipelines, but these were in the works long before they took power.
They had a decade in power to get things done yet the liberals actually approved them the first year in power. You are definitely right that the conservatives got the ball rolling but I truly believe that they only got approved because the liberals actually compromised on some measures instead of Harpers hard line tactics.
Funny enough, the pipelines might actually lose liberals some votes in BC while not gaining them any here in AB.
Frankly, most of the time the Conservatives lost was probably when they fucked up their processes and ate an Appeals Court challenge to the face.
(Edited because the SCC challenge is still underway, and the Liberals might end up being the ones eating it.)
Hey, people complain all the time about things a month or two immediately after a transition as if the new administration can do anything about it, since they were already in the works or things that will take some lead before they can be actualized.
If they want to blame then I'm fine with the Liberals taking the credit for same type of shit.
I'd rather people focus on what is being attempted and realized in legislation, however, rather than events that happen "during your watch" (oh how fortunate/unfortunate that some world-wide event happened during your tenure, let's argue about the administration which had nothing to do with it either way)
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Solution: Flood the market with no-interest, government-backed loans to drive housing prices even higher.
The BC government is not very good.
God I still remember that. I have a politically-active NDP friend, and I tried talking to her about it. The blindness was amazing.
"Why did your party trigger an election? That was a good budget the Liberals proposed. It was everything you were asking for. Even unions are on board with it. "
"We don't trust them."
"But you triggered an election without even being ready to campaign. You are offering no alternatives. You can't even get your signs up."
"We are offering an alternative. People just have to look it up."
"You're polling distant third, and the Cons are catching up to the Libs. Do you realize your poorly-though-out maneuvering could give us a Conservative government? Then what? All the gains you made with the Liberals will be wiped out, all progress done over the past years will be turned back, and we'll have four years of corrupt socially-backward government."
"Don't blame us for that! We're not voting for them!"
BC and Ontario's lines of constant fuckups are well-known. Alberta's NDP are, granted, in a very bad position through no fault of their own, but they're not exactly digging themselves out of it. Saskatchewan has a climate-change-denier in power. Québec has an austerity-slut. NS decided to shut down schools in response to the teacher union deciding not to go on strike. PEI is just now getting on-board with the whole "abortions are legal" thing.
Is good governance just a thing of the past now?
Apparently bunch of Ontario NDPers quit the party recently too, after Horwath came out against John Tory's road tolls plan, and they were like, "Who the fuck party are we any more?"
Which, more generally, fuck off Brown and Horwath. If Toronto wants to implement road tolls, fuck the hell right off and let them. We do not need fucking bullshit petty regionalist politics screwing with the country's biggest city and economic engine right now, or you know, fucking ever. If you wanted to fucking dictate local Toronto governance, then fucking run for mayor, assholes. Being premier doesn't make you fucking God-Emperor of Everything in Ontario.
It's absolutely preposterous how hard Horwath and Brown are utterly abandoning their party's principles and tacking to the centre - or what they perceive to be the centre - to try and win elections, by giving up everything their parties stand for. The Liberals have been in power too long, but the sheer lack of integrity and leadership from everyone else is mind-boggling.
I have several issues with this. I, in theory, love the idea of getting rid of Daylight Saving Time. but the ideas here are so bad.
First, I thing this needs to be done at a national level. with all due respect to Saskatchewan, who I do commend for not observing DST, I think it does need to be all or none. The plan here would have Alberta basically adopt Saskatchewan Time (more on that below), which means during the winter there would be a two hour time difference with BC, which is absurd. There are a lot of corporate offices in Alberta, and not changing clocks when almost everyone else does will complicate matters there.
Second, this isn't actually abolishing DST, The talk is that they would keep the clocks on DST year found. If we're not going to change clocks, it should be on what the actual internationally recognized time is, not the made up time. the reasons for DST were originally to give farmers more light in the evening during the summer to work, which is less of an issue since the advent of lights, and to reduce electricity use, it actually has the opposite effect. Indiana observed DST for the first time in 2008 and saw electricity use *rise* instead of fall.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14429
In alberta, especially Edmonton North, I don't think people quite understand that sure staying on DST means that in mid December the sun would stay up until 5:30, but it also means that the sun won't rise until almost 10am.
Everyone is trying to make this into getting more hours of sunlight, which it doesn't do. I for one really don't want to see sunrise at 9:48 on December 21, even if it means that the sun is not quite down when I leave work, instead of just going down.
tl;dr: I really hate DST, I hate the time change, but the plan as proposed is dumb on several levels.
Ya, when I heard we were considering getting rid of DST, I had just assumed that we'd be GETTING RID of DST, not adopting it as the new standard. That is both dumb, and bad. If we're going to pick a hill to die on regarding time, it should be the same hill as recognized by the rest of the world.
I'm not sure where to look up that information (and don't really have the time at work) but do we Albertans do more trade with SK or BC?
This is an educated guess but I'd assume BC, since they have 4x the population of Saskatchewan, more resources, more amenities, larger Urban Centers and a coast.
What's that? An excuse to post a Last Week Tonight clip?! Don't mind if I do!
You're right about the energy situation, but the Farmer thing is incorrect, according to the fine folks at LWT.
But that's a tradition in Ontario politics. God forbid the provincial government ever support the city.
You know what, I'll say this for Harris (in general), as opposed to Brown (on this matter, and probably in general): at least he tried to do something. You might not have liked some of the shit he did, you might hate amalgamation, and the downloading of transit costs, and whatever, but Harris had a plan for how he wanted Toronto to operate and he tried to implement that plan. Brown's got nothing but pure objectionism; he opposes road tolls, he opposes property taxes, he opposes hydro privatization; he isn't fucking for anything. It's not that he wants to do something; he just wants to be in charge of doing stuff!
And to be fair, Horwath came out later and pledged to restore Ontario's transit subsidy for the TTC and pushed for property tax increases in lieu of road tolls. Which is why I still place her well above Brown, except having her MPPs symbolically vote against allowing Toronto to implement road tolls was still grandstanding bullshit.
Having a shitty plan buys you nothing in my books.
The problem remains that Toronto's needs and issues extend beyond the limits of the city itself but there's no way and seemingly no will to cooperate at a larger scale. Getting all the cities and towns and such together would be a clusterfuck and the provincial government is either useless or actively hostile.
Ya BC has been a well known joke for a while, and we can't even fix it, our last election here in the Okanagan, was basically a ton of people voting against Christie Clark....
Then the majority vote person totally stepped down at last second to hand his seat to .....
Christie Clark.
Like it's so corrupt it's not even funny out here.
the section specifically is the section from her house to the highway. House she shorted the market and basically inherited to herself as well.
wut
I was living in Christy Clark's former riding at the time of the election, and am proud to say I helped vote her out.
No scandal so far as I'm aware. This sort of thing is fairly common in parliamentary politics - if a party leader loses their seat but their party forms the government, a backbencher will usually step down to ensure the leader remains Premier.
4 more years? It's ok, at this rate by the time Picard is Captain of the Enterprise the skytrain will finally reach UBC
Had someone ranting about Trudeau being anti pipeline at a Christmas party this weekend. Asked how he can be anti pipeline yet has gotten more built then Harper.
Was told is does not matter because Harper "Wanted it more".
Good to know that we still have people capable of reading the minds of politicians.
I grew up being told actions speak louder then words.
When did that change?
I'm not sure how to push for facts to outweigh feelings again, but it would be nice to get back there.
It never was. Politics can frequently be more about culture and being part of an in-group then policy.
Trudeau is obviously more anti-pipeline because oil-stuff is a conservative thing.
Not that the anti-pipeline line wasn't complete bullshit, but how has Trudeau built more pipelines than Harper? AFAIK, Trudeau has just approved one of the three pipeline projects on his desk (and is likely to block the other two), and hasn't actually built anything yet. Not sure what Harper built, but if it's greater than zero (it might not be) it'd be more than Trudeau so far. Though not really a fair argument, stacking up Harper's 10 years to Trudeau's 1.
He spent a fair bit of political capital getting the pipelines built under what I can only assume is the assumption that Hillary would win and keystone was sunk.
Now that it's pretty much sure thing that it IS being built under Trump I do wonder how much Trudeau really wants it. He's already alienated some of the more pro-environment liberals.
You deleted your climate data years ago. Why you let us steal your ideas, I'll never know.
He approved two pipelines. Tran-mountain and Line 3 (more of an expansion but still) and rejected northern gateway.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-cabinet-trudeau-pipeline-decisions-1.3872828
I believe Harpers count is zero.
Well it's not really mind-reading. Trudeau is actually reviewing and evaluating the pipeline applications and holding consultations with all affected parties. Harper gutted environmental regulations and ignored all land ownership claims and streamlined the application process so much he basically turned it into a government rubber stamp and gave that stamp to the industry and did everything short of changing his middle name to "Pipeline". He definitely wanted those pipelines. Whether he was actually effective at getting them is a different matter entirely, and whether they benefited Canada and Canadians is yet a third question. But to his credit, I have never once in my life doubted Stephen Harper's want for more pipelines.
"Then you should make me PM, because I want it the mostest, idiot.."
It's a pretty easy turnaround in discussion, though.
So he wanted pipelines, but was so lame duck he couldn't get any?
For real though, he tried to force them down people's throat. Keystone was done in the most forceful fashion and refused to change their routes originally. That's what caused the backlash in the US against it. Same thing with Northern gateway.
Still surprised energy east did not pan out.
What is "alive and well"?
Is it people voting for the Conservatives even when they are blatantly lying to them?
Is it people not protesting the Liberals when they aren't showing progress?
Or is it simply when a media group is specifically peddling manipulative half-truths or outright propaganda?
Because we're always going to have the ranters. Hell, sometimes we are the ranters and we know the only way to avoid being one permanently and graduate to the status of ideological nutcase is not to stubbornly double down on our "opinions" in the face of clear evidence of their dissonance from the hard earned data that came from reputable sources.
I think if some guy ranting at the Xmas party is your standard for "alive and well" cognitive dissonance in Canada, that's never going to change significantly. *shrugs*
Believing that the Liberals are anti-pipeline while having approved more than the conservatives who are "pro" pipeline is pretty much the definition of cognitive dissonance. American politics and this past election have really brought the attitude of if enough people believe something to be true it trumps (!) facts/reality.
The same applies to Alberta politics and the NDP. People are up in arms about Notley being anti oilsands while the truth is that the provincial carbon tax and regimentation changes have led to a new pipeline that the oil patch has been demanding for years.
The rise of fake news/fluff and the death of actual journalism because of the lack of revenue is a real problem that is only making the current wild ride of world politics even worse.
It's not the definition of cognitive dissonance at all. Holding contradictory beliefs causes cognitive dissonance, it's not CD itself. And honestly, the beliefs in this case aren't even necessarily contradictory if you believe the Liberals approved the pipelines reluctantly because they can't see any other path to improving the Albertan economy in the near term, whereas the Conservatives were all "Fuck yeah, pipelines!" Although, I suspect that would just be someone's way of resolving the dissonance.
Now, the conservatives do hold some fault for some stupidity in their framework, and they absolutely did drag their heels, but there is still partial truth in the fact that the Liberals simply got to rubber stamp (or turn down) things that were years in the making, well before they took power. It is a political win that they get to say they approved the pipelines, but these were in the works long before they took power.
They had a decade in power to get things done yet the liberals actually approved them the first year in power. You are definitely right that the conservatives got the ball rolling but I truly believe that they only got approved because the liberals actually compromised on some measures instead of Harpers hard line tactics.
Funny enough, the pipelines might actually lose liberals some votes in BC while not gaining them any here in AB.
Frankly, most of the time the Conservatives lost was probably when they fucked up their processes and ate an Appeals Court challenge to the face.
(Edited because the SCC challenge is still underway, and the Liberals might end up being the ones eating it.)
If they want to blame then I'm fine with the Liberals taking the credit for same type of shit.
I'd rather people focus on what is being attempted and realized in legislation, however, rather than events that happen "during your watch" (oh how fortunate/unfortunate that some world-wide event happened during your tenure, let's argue about the administration which had nothing to do with it either way)