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[Rogue One] A Spoiler Filled Thread

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    It's funny seeing Ben Mendelsohn being such a goofball in contrast to his character.


    God, they're all adorable. <3

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay regular Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Having not watched the video, unless Darth Vader took Obi-Wan's lightsaber with him in his TIE X1 when he flew out to engage the Rebels, it was destroyed along with everything else on-board the Death Star.

    Do we know how long it was between the escape with the princess to when they actually attack the Death Star? Either way Vader would likely take the saber instead of letting it get tossed out in the trash

    Remember, this is the series where they wrote a whole movie to fill one plot hole

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed regular Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Having not watched the video, unless Darth Vader took Obi-Wan's lightsaber with him in his TIE X1 when he flew out to engage the Rebels, it was destroyed along with everything else on-board the Death Star.

    Do we know how long it was between the escape with the princess to when they actually attack the Death Star? Either way Vader would likely take the saber instead of letting it get tossed out in the trash

    Remember, this is the series where they wrote a whole movie to fill one plot hole

    And literally hundreds of books to plug holes in other books that made up backstories for everyone in the OT with a face.

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  • XantomasXantomas totally awesome? Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Seems pretty plausible to me that Vader would immediately pick up his old mentor's lightsaber after killing him and put it in a robot pocket for later and thus still had it on him when he escaped. Not only are sabers probably quite rare in those days, that one had great personal meaning to him.

    Xantomas on
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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2017
    YouTube proffered me this after that other one. Clips from assorted chat shows and a lot of the Google stuff too, but worth a watch. Diego, Felicity and Alan are all amazing, Ben and Riz get time to shine too:

    Jazz on
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  • AegisAegis regular Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    Just came back from seeing this for the first time.

    I'm not sure what to be more disappointed in myself in: that I didn't recognize K-2's voice as Alan Tudyk, instead thinking, "Hey, he sounds like the robot in I, Robot!". Or not realizing all this time that Sonny's voice actor in I, Robot was Alan Tudyk.

    But fuck me, this was a hell of a movie. I'm a big world-building nut, so this was great.

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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Yeah I was going to ask where the hell Tudyk was in the film but then I realized it must have been the robot.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Having not watched the video, unless Darth Vader took Obi-Wan's lightsaber with him in his TIE X1 when he flew out to engage the Rebels, it was destroyed along with everything else on-board the Death Star.

    Do we know how long it was between the escape with the princess to when they actually attack the Death Star? Either way Vader would likely take the saber instead of letting it get tossed out in the trash

    Remember, this is the series where they wrote a whole movie to fill one plot hole

    That's a very uncharitable description of Rogue One, especially since it's far from the biggest plot problem people have with the Star Wars films.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay regular Registered User regular
    Obviously I was talking about An Ewok Adventure

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden regular Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to ask where the hell Tudyk was in the film but then I realized it must have been the robot.

    Tudyk was Darth Vader.

    Honk
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Mim wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The Force Awaken's script was way more of a mess then Rogue One's and had more glaring story issues in some ways but it had memorable characters that made me feel shit. I largely agree with the comparison they do in that video when they mention the two movies. And if you wanna compared it to A New Hope, I'd say that one manages to hit having memorable characters and a pretty good story overall that really manages to

    Whoa wait, what's wrong with Force Awakens?

    Just off the top of my head it's got an entire Super Weapon plot that is essentially completely pointless to anything else going on in the film. You could literally excise it and nothing about the core story or emotional beats of the film would actually change. That's probably the most glaring problem with the whole thing and alot of smaller issues basically fall out of that fundamental error. There's other shit too, like a Rey being heavily underserved by the script or a lack of ability to pace itself robbing the film of the feeling of the passage of time and the heavy use of coincidence and the entire useless thing with Han Solo when he first shows up and such. The script has some serious muddled writing going on generally.

    But there's other threads for going over that in more detail.

    shryke on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    I've only seen Rogue One once, but on that viewing I got the distinct impression that Cassian was once a good man who gave away his soul a small piece at a time. His speech before leaving for Scariff was basically him rallying everyone like himself, people who have done some fucked up shit for the Rebellion, and they all know it, but justified it all not because they're immoral, but because they were acting in service to a just cause, so the end justifies the means. His decision not to kill Jyn's dad, and his later decision to abscond with the ship to Scariff, deciding to honor the spirit of the Rebellion, not the letter of his orders, completes his arc.

    The opening scene informs the rest of the movie for Cassian because 'Hey assassinate this guy once you find him' seems like totally something Cassian would do, based on the opening scene. And then he doesn't because Cassian actually isn't that guy, he just thought he had to be in order to serve.

    His speech, as an example, struck me the same as Jyn's. A character movement that comes out of nowhere. Maybe there were more beats left on the cutting room floor from the shit going on on planet #1, I don't know. They establish traits for both characters in their opening scenes (Cassian's at least is shown instead of lazily told) and then just don't do anything with them and the characters do something different for the whole film.

    Apothe0sis
  • honoverehonovere regular Registered User regular
    I think alot of character beats are there but they get overshadowed by the scattered editing in the first part of the movie and the action in the second part. They were alot more obvious and easy to follow on a repeat viewing, in my opinion.

    If you want to call that subtle writing and acting or illegible is probably up for debate.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    I've only seen Rogue One once, but on that viewing I got the distinct impression that Cassian was once a good man who gave away his soul a small piece at a time. His speech before leaving for Scariff was basically him rallying everyone like himself, people who have done some fucked up shit for the Rebellion, and they all know it, but justified it all not because they're immoral, but because they were acting in service to a just cause, so the end justifies the means. His decision not to kill Jyn's dad, and his later decision to abscond with the ship to Scariff, deciding to honor the spirit of the Rebellion, not the letter of his orders, completes his arc.

    The opening scene informs the rest of the movie for Cassian because 'Hey assassinate this guy once you find him' seems like totally something Cassian would do, based on the opening scene. And then he doesn't because Cassian actually isn't that guy, he just thought he had to be in order to serve.

    By the time Cassian decides not to pull the trigger, the situation has changed from 'kill the guy who is building a superweapon' to 'kill the guy who has already built a superweapon but might have intel on how to destroy it'. So for me it was less a moral decision, and more a logical 'this is the best course of action based on changing circumstances'. Honestly I thought the initial Rebel plan for dad was pretty pants-on-head, so placing a lot of weight on the go/no-go moment was iffy.

    A less ambiguous change of heart scene would have done something to mirror and flip his initial killing of the informant. Have him and someone on the team with their backs against the wall, and he has the option of cutting and running but instead decides to stick it out. Which is sort of what happened in the data vault.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • MancingtomMancingtom regular Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Having not watched the video, unless Darth Vader took Obi-Wan's lightsaber with him in his TIE X1 when he flew out to engage the Rebels, it was destroyed along with everything else on-board the Death Star.

    Do we know how long it was between the escape with the princess to when they actually attack the Death Star? Either way Vader would likely take the saber instead of letting it get tossed out in the trash

    Remember, this is the series where they wrote a whole movie to fill one plot hole

    Funny thing, there actually is a book about what Vader did with Obi-Wan's lightsaber. One of the Junior Jedi Knights books has Anakin Solo and pals visit the remains of Vader's castle to retrieve it. Apparently Vader kept it as a trophy/angst machine, which is very in character.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Obviously I was talking about An Ewok Adventure

    Objection withdrawn, Your Honor.

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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It would have been fun if the robot was named LN2DK

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  • TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to ask where the hell Tudyk was in the film but then I realized it must have been the robot.

    Tudyk was Darth Vader.

    Tudyk was the demented chicken that kept running around the shuttle and trying to eat kyber crystals and they wound up keeping him in a box so he wouldnt mistakenly eject himself out the airlock.

    Bless your heart.
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  • KetarKetar Ready to feel better about your own miserable lives?Registered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to ask where the hell Tudyk was in the film but then I realized it must have been the robot.

    Tudyk was Darth Vader.

    Tudyk was the demented chicken that kept running around the shuttle and trying to eat kyber crystals and they wound up keeping him in a box so he wouldnt mistakenly eject himself out the airlock.

    Buh-caw!

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  • Mr RayMr Ray regular Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    I think alot of character beats are there but they get overshadowed by the scattered editing in the first part of the movie and the action in the second part. They were alot more obvious and easy to follow on a repeat viewing, in my opinion.

    If you want to call that subtle writing and acting or illegible is probably up for debate.

    I really liked the movie, but from the sound of it I think most of us can agree that the editing in the first part was really bad. I was saying to myself "For fuck's sake, can we maybe just stay with one character and one planet for more than thirty seconds please?" and praying that the rest of the movie wouldn't be that disjointed, but thankfully it finds a groove and runs with it.

    Space.
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  • PreacherPreacher regular Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Seems like a very vulnerable place to be, sticking out like that. You don't want some x-wing blasting your throne room.

    Pfft, what are the odds of being able to use one tiny ship to blast one little window on a giant object in space?



    Oh. Riiiiiiiight.

    That was after the shield went down on that particular ship. And the emperor assumed the rebels would never get the shield down on the death star. He hadn't seen it in his vision.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Yeah I was going to ask where the hell Tudyk was in the film but then I realized it must have been the robot.

    Tudyk was Darth Vader.

    Tudyk was the demented chicken that kept running around the shuttle and trying to eat kyber crystals and they wound up keeping him in a box so he wouldnt mistakenly eject himself out the airlock.

    Buh-caw!

    He went to Julliard, you know.

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  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ...the heavy use of coincidence...
    Out of interest, what stories can you name that don't have multiple coincidences in them?
    Heck, the Force gives Star Wars a better excuse for that than most other stories.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler regular Registered User regular
    the movie may have tried to have too many moving pieces resulted in whiplash editing.

  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Rogue One is quickly closing on 1 BILLION DOLLARS. Say what you will but this movie is KILLING IT at the box office.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2016.htm

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  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Rogue One is quickly closing on 1 BILLION DOLLARS. Say what you will but this movie is KILLING IT at the box office.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2016.htm

    And I, Super Star Wars Nerd, haven't even gotten to see it a second time yet.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Rogue One is quickly closing on 1 BILLION DOLLARS. Say what you will but this movie is KILLING IT at the box office.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2016.htm

    Overtaken TPM (stop tittering at the back there) to become the second highest grossing Star Wars movie. It's got a long way to go to catch TFA (it won't), but that's still mighty impressive.

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  • navgoosenavgoose regular Registered User regular
    All this "editing" and "character building" talk. Back in my day we just said it was a bit slow at the beginning getting to know the cast.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    I, for one, cannot wait for the Blu-ray release so I can watch it another quintillion times.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I might actually buy this one. For all the issues with the movie, the action at the end is glorious.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden regular Registered User regular
    navgoose wrote: »
    All this "editing" and "character building" talk. Back in my day we just said it was a bit slow at the beginning getting to know the cast.

    His day was 1875.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    That feeling when you see a popular movie two months late because of baby + weather and can finally go in the spoiler thread.

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  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Listening to the soundtrack this morning. Once again, I implore theaters to, please for the love of all that is holy, calibrate your audio systems. It is clear for the second Star Wars movie in a row that my theater here has no idea how to raise the level of the audio so the music can be heard and I don't have to strain to hear scenes of quiet dialog. It's just so frustrating when I get to hear all this space opera goodness at home but feel cheated of it during my initial theater experience. I don't know, maybe movie studios can send set up instructions to the theaters?

    Anyways, Giacchino is no John Williams (no one is), but he has ambitiously adapted Williams' subtle stylings to fit the themeless, melancholy feel of Rogue One. We get the sound of the beginnings of a hopeful theme but without the payoff of the rising notes. Every measure ends on what feels and sounds like a down note but because the elements of Williams' triumphant themes are alluded to it, from my humble opinion, it successfully sets up the scenes of a movie essentially about searching, finding, and sacrificing for hope.

    Can't wait to crank it up at home with the movie visuals and dialog as well to get the proper setting to feast upon.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    It seems like theater sound systems are weighing the dialog to heavily too. It still bothers me that blasters are so quiet in 7 and R1.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    That feeling when you see a popular movie two months late because of baby + weather and can finally go in the spoiler thread.

    Yeah we finally saw it on Thursday. I thought the first 20 minutes or so were a bit hard to follow but once everyone's threads started tying together I loved it.

  • OrogogusOrogogus regular San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Just saw it, too. Thought it was fun. Something about the way it ties into Ep4, though:
    This makes Leia's bluff about a diplomatic mission to Alderaan look really weak, doesn't it? She was just at a giant battle with two Star Destroyers, a space platform and a ground installation wiped out and the Death Star on site. Wonder if the poor dudes on the flagship tried the "diplomatic mission" line, too.

    Come to think of it, what was she even doing at the fight? Wasn't she supposed to be off recruiting Obi-Wan?

    Kraint
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Princess Leia Organa: Darth Vader. Only you could be so bold. The Imperial Senate will not sit still for this. When they hear you've attacked a diplomatic...
    Darth Vader: Don't act so surprised, Your Highness. You weren't on any mercy mission this time. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.
    Princess Leia Organa: I don't know what you're talking about. I am a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
    Darth Vader: You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!

    Yeah... it's a little off. Never mind why the mission to Alderaan requires a pit-stop at Tatooine.

    daveNYC on
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  • honoverehonovere regular Registered User regular
    She's blatently playing the "We all now I'm guilty but I have diplomatic immunity" card. See any cop show/movie. But the bad cop / Vader isn't having any of it.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    She's blatently playing the "We all now I'm guilty but I have diplomatic immunity" card. See any cop show/movie. But the bad cop / Vader isn't having any of it.

    I think when they run that play in movies it's usually the bad guy claiming immunity, and they usually are a bit more smug about it. In ANH her argument sounds like she thinks she's actually making a good argument. Though there's also the not minor issue that she's claiming diplomatic immunity after her crew put up armed resistance to a boarding party from the official government, and she herself killed a member of the military, so... yeah...

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Road BlockRoad Block regular Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    She's blatently playing the "We all now I'm guilty but I have diplomatic immunity" card. See any cop show/movie. But the bad cop / Vader isn't having any of it.

    Honestly I think the bigger problem with the line is she is supposedly going on a diplomatic mission to her home planet.

    But yeah it's not like she's going to say "Yeah we both know I'm a rebel but you can't convince the senate of that" in a universe with any sort of recording technology.

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