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This is the old Star Citizen thread

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Posts

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    they gotta nail down 'talking to a shopkeeper npc, before they can get to that. this is uncharted videogame territory it's gonna take a bit

    I realize that your statement is dripping with sarcasm.

    But I also feel it necessary to remind everybody that just because X gets released first doesn't mean they are taking resources away from Y.

    Game designers, programmers, and engineers have different disciplines they work in. AI programmers and the people who are writing the scripts for the new much-memed-upon coffee shop feature are not the same people who are working on the new map. People are hired for a specific skillset (e.g. UI design) and you want that person to be working on things in your project related to that skillset. It is not feasible or realistic to demand that they shift their resources around, because that would probably cause more long term harm than good. You don't want the UI designer trying to program AI behavior. That's a recipe for disaster.

    Believe me. I want the game to come out too. I'm tired of waiting. But overly excessive sarcastic comments like this one don't help the situation, aren't realistic to the way game development or software development in general works, and only serves to unnecessarily stir the pot.

    Sir Carcass
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Speak for yourself. Overly sarcastic comments like that one are a boon to this game.

    Not to mention it's not that sarcastic for this development.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    they gotta nail down 'talking to a shopkeeper npc, before they can get to that. this is uncharted videogame territory it's gonna take a bit

    I realize that your statement is dripping with sarcasm.

    But I also feel it necessary to remind everybody that just because X gets released first doesn't mean they are taking resources away from Y.

    Game designers, programmers, and engineers have different disciplines they work in. AI programmers and the people who are writing the scripts for the new much-memed-upon coffee shop feature are not the same people who are working on the new map. People are hired for a specific skillset (e.g. UI design) and you want that person to be working on things in your project related to that skillset. It is not feasible or realistic to demand that they shift their resources around, because that would probably cause more long term harm than good. You don't want the UI designer trying to program AI behavior. That's a recipe for disaster.

    Believe me. I want the game to come out too. I'm tired of waiting. But overly excessive sarcastic comments like this one don't help the situation, aren't realistic to the way game development or software development in general works, and only serves to unnecessarily stir the pot.

    They hired someone to do realistically deforming bedsheets? I wonder what else they could be working on.

    SijLqhH.png
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  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Nobody woulda blinked if it said "realistic cloth physics". "Bedsheet" made people react harder, so it worked. Don't bite on clickbait.

    Sir CarcassVoodooV
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    dporowski wrote: »
    Nobody woulda blinked if it said "realistic cloth physics". "Bedsheet" made people react harder, so it worked. Don't bite on clickbait.

    They already added that. They're specifically working on realistically deforming bedsheets.

    SijLqhH.png
    Steam: stabbitystyle | uPlay: stabbitystyle | b.net: Stabbity#1528 | XBL: Stabbity Style | PSN: Stabbity_Style | Twitch: stabbitystyle
    Mr RayBahamutZEROStormwatcher
  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    edited May 9
    dporowski wrote: »
    Nobody woulda blinked if it said "realistic cloth physics". "Bedsheet" made people react harder, so it worked. Don't bite on clickbait.

    They already added that. They're specifically working on realistically deforming bedsheets.

    Yeah, which is cloth physics in a particular dimensional space and not just "floppy woppy wind and character motion. sort of. if you squint." like usual. The people who did cloth physics--more likely one-two of them--are now doing this, because it's probably an adaptation/advancement of tech they already have, and likely makes the existing cloth physics better.

    Also small bet on their "realistic" cloth physics not being all that realistic, so this would probably port over, it's just bedsheets hold still and are stuck to a 2d plane, which (SWAG here) means a simpler set of conditions to start with. Also would give you cloth interacting with solid models, which might play well with cloth on character models and/or the usual clipping problems you see when garments combine.


    Edit: Like, phrasing's a thing. To compare to Forza, a game I actually play, if I said "LOL they're working on realistic lug nuts" everyone would point and laugh, but if you instead say "tire/wheel damage models more true to the car configuration" it's the same thing, but one isn't stupid sounding. It would be really cool if your racing sim took into account actual car bits and attachments and the physics of how the cars actually work, but if you phrase it like "lol exhaust pipes" it sounds stupid and people click.

    dporowski on
    ElvenshaeVoodooV
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    they gotta nail down 'talking to a shopkeeper npc, before they can get to that. this is uncharted videogame territory it's gonna take a bit

    I realize that your statement is dripping with sarcasm.

    But I also feel it necessary to remind everybody that just because X gets released first doesn't mean they are taking resources away from Y.

    Game designers, programmers, and engineers have different disciplines they work in. AI programmers and the people who are writing the scripts for the new much-memed-upon coffee shop feature are not the same people who are working on the new map. People are hired for a specific skillset (e.g. UI design) and you want that person to be working on things in your project related to that skillset. It is not feasible or realistic to demand that they shift their resources around, because that would probably cause more long term harm than good. You don't want the UI designer trying to program AI behavior. That's a recipe for disaster.

    Believe me. I want the game to come out too. I'm tired of waiting. But overly excessive sarcastic comments like this one don't help the situation, aren't realistic to the way game development or software development in general works, and only serves to unnecessarily stir the pot.

    I've read variations of this argument for the last 8 years or so. It's empty. It's meant to be a brush off for the years and years of complaints on feature creep, superfluous systems no one asked for, and quite frankly, just shitting game design that lacks coherent direction.

    No, you don't want your UI designed trying to program your AI. But what you do want is $450 million to fund the right people in the right positions to actually build the game.

    If I have to build a house, I have the right people show up at the right time to level the ground. Then I have the right people building the foundation. Then I have the right people to build the walls, etc, etc...If I'm trying to get the walls built and I have "too many foundation" guys, I don't tell them to just go build more foundations somewhere. I shouldn't pay them for that. I should've ended their contract when their part was done, and had more people working on the walls.

    There is no unnecessary "pot stirring" here. It's reality, like all the time and effort being wasted on these stupid bedsheets...which I'll personally be shocked if it actually makes it into the real game. In two years, after no more news about the bedsheets, we'll find out all that "work" was scrapped because it the "tech wasn't built" to do that kind of thing, and the team realized they'd have to rebuild the game from the ground up in order to get it to work...which they realized only after getting halfway through rebuilding the engine. Which is great news, because they've been able to improve upon every other feature in the game...which all have to be redone now, but trust me when you see the results in 5 years, you'll agree it was worth in. Insert quote about bad games always being bad blahblahblah here.

    ironzerg on
    Stormwatcher
  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    edited May 9
    You don't get good developers if you ditch dev teams when a particular component is done. Period. Everyone talks, and if word is Company A flushes teams when a given widget is done, nobody will go to work for that company if they have any option.

    "Work on different part" sure. "Layoff" nope, that is signing your own death warrant, slowly and on layaway. It is, purely and simply, not an efficient nor an effective method of ensuring development efficiency, let alone the hell you'll have on/offboarding people onto the stack as things move and change.

    Edit: Actually, just from a purely "experience in the software industry" POV, that would be a serious negative indicator of SC's eventual release. If they start churning developers at an unusual rate, that's Bad News.

    dporowski on
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    dporowski wrote: »
    Nobody woulda blinked if it said "realistic cloth physics". "Bedsheet" made people react harder, so it worked. Don't bite on clickbait.

    That's not clickbait wording. It's verbatim from CIG's own status update. They specifically "need" bedsheet physics because it is also somehow critically important to the game's development that NPC's have "realistic" sleep activities. I'm sure we can all agree how our immersion would be utterly ruined if an NPC went to watch TV in bed alone in their room and their covers didn't wrinkle just so.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    BahamutZEROStormwatcher
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    "Deforming bedsheets" are a portion of the work that is being done on AI characters and their downtime/sleep routines. They specifically mentioned NPCs going to their bunks and using their mobiglas or watching TV. Squadron 42 is a game about being a navy pilot, who is stationed on a battleship that is crewed, and those NPC crewmembers have to have something to do when they're not at their stations. Do bedsheets need to deform? Not really. They've already showed off cloth physics in the past (like a character pulling a tarp off of a ground vehicle before using it to make an escape), so I'm pretty sure "bedsheet physics" don't exist in a vacuum and will either use or improve the cloth physics that already exist and are being used elsewhere.

    If we want to use a "building a house" scenario its kinda like looking at a house that is in progress, with concrete guys and framers and electricians and plumbers and carpet installers and landscapers all running around, but then you see one guy in the kitchen who is working on getting the perfect pantry door knob so you flip out and start yelling about how "The house is way behind schedule, why is my contractor focusing on pantry knobs when they should be finishing the house?!" while conveniently ignoring all of the other people that are currently working on building it.

    Clickbait is called clickbait for a reason, guys.

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Well, clickbait specifically implies that the headline does not accurately describe the contents of the article itself. Let's see exactly what the first briefing is for the April Squadron 42 update (and yes I know it's alphabetical but bear with me here)
    AI (Content)

    Specifically for Squadron 42 (Sq42), AI Content revamped the ‘sleep and bed relaxation’ activity started last year, which enables NPCs to realistically pass time in their bunks or sleeping quarters. Now, an NPC will find its bed and enter it before closing the privacy shutters and sleeping until they’re scheduled to do another activity.


    “We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is currently underway and, if successful, will allow the AI to deform their sheets when entering, exiting, or sleeping inside them. This is a challenging assignment and expands the complexity of the feature. For example, what happens to the sheets if the AI needs to exit the bed in an emergency?” AI Content


    The initial implementation of bed relaxation includes reading, writing, and watching content on the mobiGlas, which can happen in bed or on the side of it. NPCs can also watch TV if their bunk includes one.


    Work on the arcade machine feature was finalized last month, which included polishing the machine’s male and female animations. The team also utilized the new ‘geometry slaving’ feature from AI Tech: instead of playing a joystick animation, the joystick is attached to the NPC’s hand and moves when it does.

    and just to be clearer here's a screenshot

    rpqhud2gajiu.png

    it seems reasonable to me to assume that bedsheet deformation is, in fact, exactly what they are tasking people with in the development of this single player dogfighting game, and not at all a misrepresentation of their stated plans!

    dkj3oHf.jpg
    Stabbity StyleironzergSiliconStewIanatorOneAngryPossumFiatilStormwatcherApogee
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    dporowski wrote: »
    It is, purely and simply, not an efficient nor an effective method of ensuring development efficiency, let alone the hell you'll have on/offboarding people onto the stack as things move and change.

    I'm just going to leave it at this. In 10 years, Star Citizen has shown nothing that would be labeled as "efficient" or "effective" when it comes to development. We'll end up wasting time arguing about something that doesn't exist negatively impacting something else that doesn't exist.

    ironzerg on
    Stormwatcher
  • Blah64Blah64 Registered User regular
    It's clear 'any press is good press' since Star Citizen's funding continues rising year after year.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    it seems reasonable to me to assume that bedsheet deformation is, in fact, exactly what they are tasking people with in the development of this single player dogfighting game, and not at all a misrepresentation of their stated plans!

    Just like how they were wasting time and effort when they were "tasking people" with creating a coffee shop vendor, and the usual suspects freaked out about it, and then it turned out that it was literally one guy who was brand new to the team and was using it as his onboarding project to get a handle on the engine?

    If you want to complain about the level of detail that's fine, but if you don't think that sort of thing belongs in a "singleplayer dogfighting game" than I would cordially invite you to play the first Wing Commander, a singleplayer dogfighting game where you spend a significant amount of your playtime in between flight missions in your barracks, hangar, or the ship's bar interacting with other pilots and ship's crew, playing an arcade game, or scoping out the pilot kills leaderboard. The original release also shipped with an in-universe issue of the monthly magazine released for the ship you are stationed on in game, as well as a bunch of individual blueprints for human and Kilrathi ships. Ridiculous attention to detail has been a core component of the franchise since 1990.

    People are acting like the ridiculous attention to detail is what is preventing the game from being released, but for better or for worse the ridiculous attention to detail is the game.

    LucascraftHappylilElfElvenshaeArbitraryDescriptorSir CarcassThe Deliverator
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    “We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is currently underway and, if successful, will allow the AI to deform their sheets when entering, exiting, or sleeping inside them. This is a challenging assignment and expands the complexity of the feature. For example, what happens to the sheets if the AI needs to exit the bed in an emergency?”

    This is shit that gets people involuntarily committed when their family finds it.

    Edit: Just. Fuck, ya’ll.

    OneAngryPossum on
    BahamutZEROStabbity Style
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    You don't have to defend the bedsheet deformation engine, y'all! You don't! You can just acknowledge it's absurd!

    BahamutZERO.gif
    MechMantisArbitraryDescriptorMr RayStabbity StyleSCREECH OF THE FARGFiatilStormwatcher
  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    I mean... I got no real feelings on it, but isn't "NPCs getting into and out of bed" kind of ludicrous right now? Just lying on top of the covers, fully clothed. I can definitely see that being a thing you wanna fix.

    I mean it's an insane level of fidelity, but hell, if all my games where "character goes to/gets out of bed" had actual bedding use and not just "textured platform" I'd be kind of pleased. Little, background, but just really nice. Like when a character has a good door opening animation.

    Sir CarcassElvenshae
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    dporowski wrote: »
    I mean... I got no real feelings on it, but isn't "NPCs getting into and out of bed" kind of ludicrous right now? Just lying on top of the covers, fully clothed. I can definitely see that being a thing you wanna fix.

    I mean it's an insane level of fidelity, but hell, if all my games where "character goes to/gets out of bed" had actual bedding use and not just "textured platform" I'd be kind of pleased. Little, background, but just really nice. Like when a character has a good door opening animation.

    I am flabbergasted, congratulations

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    I mean yes, buying coffee from a civilian coffee shop is truly important when creating a single player space combat simulation I suppose. Just like making sure we have proper mess deck eating animations and utensil handling (gotta make sure the AI follows table manners), creating breakthroughs in animation enabling helmets to be carried in either the left or right hands, as well as detailed showering animations!

    I'm not complaining at the level of detail per se. I'm pointing out that the level of detail they are going for are in areas irrelevant to the original pitch to a frankly comedic level, and that it isn't clickbait or somehow misleading to point out what they, themselves, are putting out in their own press releases.

    Losing the forest for the individual veins on each leaf of one tree, in other words, then saying that a photograph of the guy counting said veins is misleading 'cause it shows him counting veins on tree leaves but he's totally concerned about the forest, guys!

    dkj3oHf.jpg
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    I mean yes, buying coffee from a civilian coffee shop is truly important when creating a single player space combat simulation I suppose.

    Did you uhhh, somehow forget that Star Citizen is an MMO where you can play as a civilian? The "single player space combat simulation" that you keep mentioning is Squadron 42, which is being developed concurrently with Star Citizen. That's where the coffee vendor is, in Star Citizen. The MMO. Where you can buy things from vendors, some of which are food and drinks. Like coffee.

    Did you also forget that the coffee vendor was created by one guy who was brand new to the team and was using it as his onboarding project to get a handle on the engine? Because that was mentioned on this very page so that would be kinda weird if you did.

    Elvenshae
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Ineed!

    I am also aware that Squadron 42 was supposed to have been released, or at the very least had 5-6 beta releases over the last decade or so, none of which bore fruit, and that this bedsheet thing is being done specifically for Squadron 42 as indicated by it being in the Squadron 42 April Update!

    dkj3oHf.jpg
    ArbitraryDescriptor
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    So are you mad about a coffee vendor (that isn't in Squadron 42), or about cloth physics on beds (that isn't in Squadron 42, but is intended to be, and will likely filter over into Star Citizen as well)?

    Either way,
    l315i3sr35u9.png

    Elvenshae
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    ...what?

    My dude, I can assure you, I eagerly await each new Star Citizen press release for the amount of unintentional comedy due to the absurdity of their claims.

    They're like Dwarf Fortress patch notes.

    dkj3oHf.jpg
    StormwatcherApogee
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    “We knew early on that, to hit the fidelity we expect for Sq42, we would need to do some R&D on bedsheet deformation. This work is currently underway and, if successful, will allow the AI to deform their sheets when entering, exiting, or sleeping inside them. This is a challenging assignment and expands the complexity of the feature. For example, what happens to the sheets if the AI needs to exit the bed in an emergency?”

    This is shit that gets people involuntarily committed when their family finds it.

    Edit: Just. Fuck, ya’ll.

    It's completely mad and I love it. I signed up for Privateer 2, but this is why I'm here now; the Dwarf Fortress of it all. They made this carrier to act as the hub, modeled it gorgeously, then realized that attention to architectural detail was all for nothing if the crew just stands there, so, no, they have to live there. And eat there, and sleep there, and they can't just pop out of their bunks, that would look silly, so we need rack mount/dismount/idle animations, and that means getting into and out of the sheets... so the sheets have to move... well that's gonna be complicated to mocap, so we'll want them to be dynamic...

    Etc etc, ad infinitum, everywhere.

    OneAngryPossumMr RayStabbity StyleElvenshaeStormwatcherThe Deliverator
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Dwarf Fortress has been in development for 16 years. Just saying.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    I mean yes, buying coffee from a civilian coffee shop is truly important when creating a single player space combat simulation I suppose.

    Did you uhhh, somehow forget that Star Citizen is an MMO where you can play as a civilian? The "single player space combat simulation" that you keep mentioning is Squadron 42, which is being developed concurrently with Star Citizen. That's where the coffee vendor is, in Star Citizen. The MMO. Where you can buy things from vendors, some of which are food and drinks. Like coffee.

    Did you also forget that the coffee vendor was created by one guy who was brand new to the team and was using it as his onboarding project to get a handle on the engine? Because that was mentioned on this very page so that would be kinda weird if you did.

    Again, another "problem" I see with the game.

    Walk through what you just said with a more critical eye. How important is an immersive coffee buying experience, when compared to the rest of the game? How important are deforming sheets? How often, in actual gameplay, are players going to witness people climbing in and out of their beds, or leaving their beds to rush to combat posts AND have time to watch and "appreciate" how the sheets realistically deform? Near zero, right? And what does that actually add to the game? Almost nothing.

    Which is fine if it's a task that costs "almost nothing" to do. But it doesn't. Read what the SC team wrote about the bed sheet thing. It's going to cost significant time and resources to build, all while adding essentially zero to the game. Get the game out the door first, then take a pass at these extra fidelity things that could be done post-launch.

    I get that you want to have social spaces and immersive areas in an MMO. Totally. But at the end of the day, the people who are going to commit to using these spaces is a tiny fraction of the player base, versus the majority who want their spaceship pew pew Star Wars adventure simulator.

    It's frustrating for a lot of people who've added their cash to fund this game. I'm frustrated. I'm about $600 deep here, and I consider it sunk. But it was all spent on spaceships for that spaceship simulator. And it's equally frustrating that the last few pages have been about bedsheets and bunker missions. The excitement of the last milestone? Grinding FPS missions to sell sniper rifles...That's overwhelmingly a disappointment.

    If you would've told me 8 years ago that in mid-2022 the highlight of the SC thread would be FPS bunker missions...I would've...I...I just don't know, man. I just don't know.

    Actually, I do know. I would've assumed we finished Squadron 42, and had been playing in the MMO Universe for years, with the FPS expansion being an amazing new add to the game. But no, it's just another disappointing "milestone" in a never-ending Alpha.

    We all know the phrase, "Good is the enemy of great". Star Citizen is coining a new one, "Absurdity is the enemy of everything".

    Stormwatcher
  • DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Dwarf Fortress has been in development for 16 years. Just saying.

    It's been "fun" and fully playable for at least 15 of those, though. Also, it's completely free and no-one is paying Toady.
    I think he had some optional donation stuff up and whenever the Graphical one comes out on steam, he'll charge for that, but I don't think it's a fair comparison.

    If this was Chris Roberts sitting in his own Garage tinkering alone in his spare time on "Battle-Cruiser, Chris Roberts Edition" then that would change the whole outlook on the game.
    But it's not.
    It's one of the most expensive games ever, and people have spend anywhere from 50 bucks to 50 grand on it.

    Maybe Chris will make good on it, and I surely hope so, but this is not at all the same as Dwarf Fortress.

    also, as an edit: Toady is apparently charging for the Steam release because he can't afford his healthcare otherwise. This is not the case with Star Citizen.

    Dibbit on
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Dibbit wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Dwarf Fortress has been in development for 16 years. Just saying.

    It's been "fun" and fully playable for at least 15 of those, though. Also, it's completely free and no-one is paying Toady.
    I think he had some optional donation stuff up and whenever the Graphical one comes out on steam, he'll charge for that, but I don't think it's a fair comparison.

    If this was Chris Roberts sitting in his own Garage tinkering alone in his spare time on "Battle-Cruiser, Chris Roberts Edition" then that would change the whole outlook on the game.
    But it's not.
    It's one of the most expensive games ever, and people have spend anywhere from 50 bucks to 50 grand on it.

    Maybe Chris will make good on it, and I surely hope so, but this is not at all the same as Dwarf Fortress.

    also, as an edit: Toady is apparently charging for the Steam release because he can't afford his healthcare otherwise. This is not the case with Star Citizen.

    I wasn't bringing up Dwarf Fortress' development time as some sort of attack on DF or praise of SC. Dwarf Fortress is just what you get with infinite feature creep. Star Citizen seems to have similar issues and there's no reason to think that it won't be at least another five years before maybe something gets to the 1.0.

    I mean really, it's been in development for eleven years, and they decided now that they needed actual modeled wrinkled bedsheets? Not just a few textures they can slap on to the surface? Was this in the original plan a decade ago?

    Ignoring the feature creep causing an overlong development of the game, my biggest worry with the level of simulation, as opposed to abstraction, that they're going for, is the interaction all those systems are going to have in both the single-player and online games. Gameplay is a rough thing to get right even when you abstract the systems down to little more than HP and DPS. With the current level of detail they're going for, it's entirely possible that having fun and enjoyable gameplay in Squadron 42 could be dependent on the pathing AI of a crewmember making it to their turret location or even your wingman managing to board their fighter. To say nothing of what could result from running an escort mission where you have to sit around for ten minutes because a lucky hit punched a hole in the hull and the NPC's are all scurrying around doing damage control.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    Dibbit
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The thing is, some of the tech they're working at is going to go beyond Star Citizen. They are raising the bar for graphical fidelity and realism for everyone. Cloth physics are bad in video games. Much worse than they should be, because nobody has put the time and effort into fixing all the clipping issues, weird collision, and texture warping. If CIG can solve those problems, it's a win for the entire industry.

    The libraries that are created as part of this can be licensed, distributed, and put to use elsewhere.

    Sir CarcassElvenshae
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    it seems reasonable to me to assume that bedsheet deformation is, in fact, exactly what they are tasking people with in the development of this single player dogfighting game, and not at all a misrepresentation of their stated plans!

    Just like how they were wasting time and effort when they were "tasking people" with creating a coffee shop vendor, and the usual suspects freaked out about it, and then it turned out that it was literally one guy who was brand new to the team and was using it as his onboarding project to get a handle on the engine?

    If you want to complain about the level of detail that's fine, but if you don't think that sort of thing belongs in a "singleplayer dogfighting game" than I would cordially invite you to play the first Wing Commander, a singleplayer dogfighting game where you spend a significant amount of your playtime in between flight missions in your barracks, hangar, or the ship's bar interacting with other pilots and ship's crew, playing an arcade game, or scoping out the pilot kills leaderboard. The original release also shipped with an in-universe issue of the monthly magazine released for the ship you are stationed on in game, as well as a bunch of individual blueprints for human and Kilrathi ships. Ridiculous attention to detail has been a core component of the franchise since 1990.

    People are acting like the ridiculous attention to detail is what is preventing the game from being released, but for better or for worse the ridiculous attention to detail is the game.

    Not one single person in the entire history of the world has given one wet shit whether or not the bedsheets moved right in their flight simulator

    Literally no one

    It is a fucking stupid waste of time that could be better spent, I dunno, making a fight simulator

    uH3IcEi.png
    Stabbity StyleAnon the FelonXeddicuszagdrobFiatilStormwatcherMadicanMr RayHardtarget
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Also, for all of the grating clunkiness the level of simulation forces us to endure, there is some definite catharsis in watching a Cutlass go into an uncontrollable spin because you knocked out some key thrusters. Side note: cutties are not fun to fight in a small luxury craft, even if you have upgraded to non-stock parts. Until that boy started spinning, I was pretty sure I was going to lose the fight.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
    ElvenshaeMr Ray
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    it seems reasonable to me to assume that bedsheet deformation is, in fact, exactly what they are tasking people with in the development of this single player dogfighting game, and not at all a misrepresentation of their stated plans!

    Just like how they were wasting time and effort when they were "tasking people" with creating a coffee shop vendor, and the usual suspects freaked out about it, and then it turned out that it was literally one guy who was brand new to the team and was using it as his onboarding project to get a handle on the engine?

    If you want to complain about the level of detail that's fine, but if you don't think that sort of thing belongs in a "singleplayer dogfighting game" than I would cordially invite you to play the first Wing Commander, a singleplayer dogfighting game where you spend a significant amount of your playtime in between flight missions in your barracks, hangar, or the ship's bar interacting with other pilots and ship's crew, playing an arcade game, or scoping out the pilot kills leaderboard. The original release also shipped with an in-universe issue of the monthly magazine released for the ship you are stationed on in game, as well as a bunch of individual blueprints for human and Kilrathi ships. Ridiculous attention to detail has been a core component of the franchise since 1990.

    People are acting like the ridiculous attention to detail is what is preventing the game from being released, but for better or for worse the ridiculous attention to detail is the game.

    Not one single person in the entire history of the world has given one wet shit whether or not the bedsheets moved right in their flight simulator

    Literally no one
    Literally one person, the entire reason we are having this conversation, because it is his flight simulator and he wants his realistically deforming bed sheets.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
    MechMantisArbitraryDescriptorElvenshaeSir CarcassMr Ray
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    The thing is, some of the tech they're working at is going to go beyond Star Citizen. They are raising the bar for graphical fidelity and realism for everyone. Cloth physics are bad in video games. Much worse than they should be, because nobody has put the time and effort into fixing all the clipping issues, weird collision, and texture warping. If CIG can solve those problems, it's a win for the entire industry.

    The libraries that are created as part of this can be licensed, distributed, and put to use elsewhere.

    For their weird offshoot of the Crytek engine they're licensing from Amazon that-- may not be used by anyone else? Don't quote me on that but I don't think Lumberyard is seeing much use.

    MechMantis on
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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    It bears repeating, it's entirely possible Chris Roberts can prove me wrong, but I highly doubt that there is an entire floor of coders working hard on this bed sheet thing that would otherwise be working on the spaceship part of the game. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about game Dev to know if there's a specific term for it, but I assume he's got a batch of coders whose job description is something like "figure out how the fuck videogame physics engines work" and some subset of their plaintive wailings to the Unending Jiggle are dedicated specifically to bedsheet jiggling.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    The thing is, some of the tech they're working at is going to go beyond Star Citizen. They are raising the bar for graphical fidelity and realism for everyone. Cloth physics are bad in video games. Much worse than they should be, because nobody has put the time and effort into fixing all the clipping issues, weird collision, and texture warping. If CIG can solve those problems, it's a win for the entire industry.

    The libraries that are created as part of this can be licensed, distributed, and put to use elsewhere.

    but they won't and the industry doesn't care

    I mean like honestly, the game looks decent in a generic way and runs like shit. they aren't solving anything. if I had to describe the graphical stylings of sc I'd use word like "graphics card box" and "uninspired"

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    ironzergStormwatcher
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    I would bet money that the UE5 fabric simulation is already ahead of what lumberyard has.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they just start again in UE5 to be honest. You can't run development 10+ years on a game, the general industry tech moves too fast for that.

    Basically all these 'features' feel like stalling as they can't figure out server meshing and the game is basically dead without that.

    Stabbity StyleAnon the FelonironzergSCREECH OF THE FARGFiatil
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Dwarf Fortress has been in development for 16 years. Just saying.

    I love when people compare:
    -the hundreds of millions dollar game project that crowdfunded itself on the promise of hypothetically releasing a complete game several times over the last decade and supplementing it with pre-sales of a bunch of absurd hundred and thousand dollar ship IOU vouchers, while only managing to fart out a couple tech demos

    To:
    -a one-man hobby project, given away for free, that the dev makes in their spare time, with the explicit notice that it will probably never be complete, and yet still manages to be a fairly complete-feeling game


    I love it because it makes star citizen look even worse and it's hilarious.

    BahamutZERO.gif
    ironzergStabbity StylezagdrobFiatilStormwatcherMechMantis
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    I don't know what your definition of tech demo is, but I feel like your comment would have made more sense several years ago.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    It is a fucking stupid waste of time that could be better spent, I dunno, making a fight simulator

    You're right. Squadron 42 was actually going to be released this week, but its been delayed due to bed cloth physics. That's literally the only reason, the entire rest of the games 30-whatever chapters have gone gold, everything is ready to go, but since they can't figure out the bed cloth physics they aren't going to release the game. Literally 100% of the 600+ employees (as well as a currently unknown number of outside studios and contractors) are focusing 100% on bed cloth physics, it is currently the #1 company wide higher than high priority task.

    Maybe Cloud Imperium Games should hire you as a consultant.

  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    The thing is, some of the tech they're working at is going to go beyond Star Citizen. They are raising the bar for graphical fidelity and realism for everyone. Cloth physics are bad in video games. Much worse than they should be, because nobody has put the time and effort into fixing all the clipping issues, weird collision, and texture warping. If CIG can solve those problems, it's a win for the entire industry.

    The libraries that are created as part of this can be licensed, distributed, and put to use elsewhere.

    This is Star Citizen myth #806: That they're doing the Holy Grail of video game programming, and it's going to change the world. Star Citizen is literally going to change everything we know about video games, and transform the entire industry.

    You can see versions of this myth repeated in many forms of over the last few years as well in response to any sort of criticism.

    None of it is true.

    And for that matter, CIG has solved nothing. Outside of alpha testing some concepts that don't really seem to work, CIG has yet to actually create something revolutionary. There's talk about it, sure. And, as said above, there's a lot of "IF, IF, IF" in every statement.

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