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This is the old Star Citizen thread

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Posts

  • ErlkönigErlkönig Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    He used to be pretty good at it up until WCIV.
    Then he probably bonked his head between that and Freelancer, that was like a prototype for SC that got pressured into release by MS, IIRC. Great game, obviously had a bunch of stuff cut out.

    I think there's a bit more to it than that. WCIV was late and over-budget, but Strike Commander was also suffered from feature creep and was delivered way late (like, years), and was made and remade several times. I can't find a definitive list of who did what on Wing Commander 1 & 2, but I wonder if Roberts did most of the programming himself. As the technology has allowed for more complex games, he seems to have struggled to deliver and get sidetracked easily. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a mental illness piece in there as well.

    I don't have a horse in this race. Star Citizen sounds like a cool idea, but I'll never get around to playing it.

    Well...all it takes is getting a game package and downloading the alpha client.

    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
    MechMantisBlah64
  • Blah64Blah64 Registered User regular
    30k item loss is supposedly being fixed in 3.15
    That seems like big news to me if true.

    DacHappylilElfEl MuchoMr Ray
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Yeah, it seems pretty huge.

    For the longest time their stance has been that they don't want to put in bandaid fixes, because that's a waste of development time and it will just have to be changed later when the real fix is ready. But this seems like a change of stance. This seems like maybe they're finally coming to the realization that the game has morphed into a live service, and they need to maintain a fun and playable public server now. They can claim it's an alpha all they want, but if they're letting people in to play it, those people need to have a reasonably enjoyable experience.

  • Blah64Blah64 Registered User regular
    I think it unlikely their stance on that has changed.
    This is most likely a one off.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    If Chris Roberts started to compromise in order to make any kind of stated goals, you might see SQ42 in a reasonable timeframe. The problem is that he's stated multiple times that he won't, and unfortunately there's no one that has the power to tell him to knock it the fuck off and ship.

    Imagine that idea phase for design where you're spitballing a concept and come up with all kinds of features and systems. Eventually you're supposed to figure what you want to make, and cut everything that doesn't reinforce that. CR refuses, and is trying to fit a 'living universe' concept into his Wing Commander homage. Which is just ... bro, let me walk to my ship, hit a prompt to start the next mission, and load me into it. That's all it needs to be.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
    Mr Ray
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    seriously, how many people interested in SQ42 actually want a 1:1 simulation of reality baked into it.
    I just want to be Blair again

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    If the scenario described above, where the Idris is sort of a hub to visit in between missions, I'm fine with that. Lots of other games use a central hub. The Borderlands games are a good example I think. In BL1 your hub was New Haven. You returned there after most missions, picked up new missions, took care of your town stuff, and then embarked on your next mission. Likewise with Sanctuary in BL2 and so forth. It's a known working structure, and grounding the player on a capital ship that is a part of their military fleet is a good way to "space-ify" that same structure.

    But yeah, there's so much of the Star Citizen PU that has no place in S42. The player does not need to be capable of hauling cargo, or mining, or hull stripping, because that's not their career path in the story mode. The story mode of S42 is that of a military character, and thus his income would be paid by the military, and he wouldn't need to participate in civilian career paths. I think the story of S42 also much more heavily focuses on rising tensions / war with one or more alien factions.

    DacBlackDragon480
  • TheflyingassTheflyingass Registered User regular
    If their proper fix is unknowingly forever away, then they should be doing bandaid solutions for stuff that is actively destroying what gameplay loops they have. At this point I would prefer cheaper bandaid solutions for pretty much anything if it increases the stability of a play session.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    I can only hope that the other career paths in the PU become at least as fleshed out as mining. I really enjoy the current rendition - just needs some balance tweaks.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    People can criticize the game, and yes there are…fans that act very cultish but let’s not accuse the thread of anything.

    Now behave, reminding you all of my prior threat to close the thread until the game releases.

    YL9WnCY.png
    Elvenshaewebguy20ApogeeMechMantisPreacherGONG-00CampyMr RaySyngyneStabbity StyleKetBraLord_Asmodeus
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Yeah, it seems pretty huge.

    For the longest time their stance has been that they don't want to put in bandaid fixes, because that's a waste of development time and it will just have to be changed later when the real fix is ready. But this seems like a change of stance. This seems like maybe they're finally coming to the realization that the game has morphed into a live service, and they need to maintain a fun and playable public server now. They can claim it's an alpha all they want, but if they're letting people in to play it, those people need to have a reasonably enjoyable experience.

    Blah64 wrote: »
    I think it unlikely their stance on that has changed.
    This is most likely a one off.

    I think this is actually a product of the ongoing work on iCache finally starting to bear fruit. For those who don't know, iCache is the other piece of "Jesus tech" along with Server Meshing that's needed before the game can be anything like a finished product. In short, it handles all of the physical objects in the universe that aren't ships or planets; your personal inventory, objects placed inside of ships, objects put into storage boxes, and how these things nest inside of each other in the big tree structure that is the universe. Its a big old graph of containers within containers, where a "container" could be a planet containing landing zones, or a hangar containing ships, or a ship containing rooms e.t.c. With 3.15 the player's inventory and their ship's inventories are now being handled by iCache, a new service dedicated to doing just that and nothing else, rather than the game's databases handing your character's state to whatever server you end up on when you logged in and trusting it not to crash and lose that information at some point while you're playing. Spoiler alert: it does this a lot.

    So now, if when the server crashes, iCache still knows where all your stuff is, and can pass this information back to the next game server you end up on when you log back in. At the moment this technology only works on your stuff, your ships, and stuff in your ships, but long term this is going to be rolled out to everywhere. Meaning that if, as Chris once famously suggested, you leave a coffee cup on a tree stump on a random planet, fly away, log out, then log back in a week later and fly back to the same tree stump, the coffee cup will still be there. A lot of people thought this was absurd at the time and I'll be honest, I was skeptical, but this does actually seem like a technically feasible way to accomplish that, and according to the roadmap we're almost there.

    One of the devs went on a twitter spree recently and answered a bunch of questions that people obviously had about this; does this mean that if I leave said coffee cup on said tree stump that everyone who logs into the game will be able to see my coffee cup? No. In the short term you'll bring your item's state with you when you log in; your cup will pop into existence on the game server when you log in. But in the longer term the game's servers will have more persistence to them, so you're more likely to end up back on the same server where you originally left your coffee cup. So while you might not see my coffee cup, my friend who was playing with me last night on the same shard, and logs into the same shard again the next day will see it.

    How big will a "shard" be? Well, that's the big unknown right now. It seems likely that a given server will never be able to support dramatically more people than it does now, but the ultimate goal is to have the universe be a cluster of servers that you can move through (in theory) seamlessly. So you might never be able to have more than 50-100 people in your immediate vicinity, but what counts as your "immediate vicinity" will become a smaller and smaller space as they break servers down from handling an entire system to a planetary body, or one for each moon, and then eventually maybe even going so far as to have every landing zone, outpost and generated mission spin off its own server. So its impossible to say whether they'll be able to get away with one server per continent, or need multiple servers just to cover Australia for instance, but the point is, once they have the ability to save all of the items (weapons, clothing, ships, maybe even homesteads) associated with iCache to a given player and apply them to another, transferring a player's data between servers becomes trivial, whether that's for crash recovery, or moving from one server to another. And this tech at least, if not server meshing itself, is pretty close according to the roadmap.

    I'll be interested to see what happens in edge cases, i.e, I build a homestead in one spot, you park your car in that same spot on another server, then your character's data is copied across, putting your car intersecting my house.

    Mr Ray on
    LucascraftSir CarcassElvenshae
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    See Fallout 76: Move your shit!

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    People can criticize the game, and yes there are…fans that act very cultish but let’s not accuse the thread of anything.

    Now behave, reminding you all of my prior threat to close the thread until the game releases.

    Yeah dude no one is saying that the game "can't be criticized", but there is a difference between criticizing something and consistent threadshitting, especially when its from someone who has admitted that they do not own the game, do not like the game, and is solely in the thread to doompost about it.

    In other news, I'm hoping that 3.15 fixes the bug where Mustang Omegas are always at max dirtiness. I saw another one in the wild tonight, which almost never happens.
    fllhzqc2ulbu.jpg

    Also, I upgraded from an i7-7700k to an i5-11600k the other day, most games only saw a middling boost in performance, but for Star Citizen there was a massive framerate increase. I know that the game still has a long way to go in terms of optimization, but I didn't realize how truly CPU bound it was. Waking up in a pod and seeing 60FPS was great. It'll still drop like a rock in some areas (especially ground outposts in a storm), but its amazing how much more tolerable running through Area 18 and New Babbage are when you're not doing it at 18fps.

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    VoodooV
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    I want more excuses for open air landings because hearing the unique engine whine of ships passing overhead is great.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
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    Mr RaySmokeStacksElvenshae
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I think right now the game is barely leaning on the GPU at all? I believe I heard or read that somewhere (maybe). Once they actually move a significant amount of the processing to the GPU and into GPU memory, that should help a lot. I think I also read that right now they're not optimized for multi-core processors, and so most of the cores are being ignored / put to waste.

    Anyway, patch 3.15 sounds like it's gonna be a good one. The overall optimism right now is pretty high for it, while it's on the PTU.

    It's got a lot of features that will affect me directly, since I'm planning on a medical profession long-term in the game. I'll probably get on, buy a medical gun and a bunch of meds, and throw a bunch more into my Cutlass Red, and fly around playing EMT.

    But as I've said before I also won't be investing a lot of time until the threat of wipes is gone. I already grinded up several ships before, and I'm not eager to do it again. I probably won't be playing it as anything more than a curious tourist until 4.0 or beyond. Not until aUEC is converted to UEC and they promise no more wipes.

    Elvenshae
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    I want more excuses for open air landings because hearing the unique engine whine of ships passing overhead is great.

    This is one of the most immersive parts of the game. A while back I was climbing around inside of a wrecked Starfarer during an insane, visibility-destroying windstorm in the middle of the night and I hear something huge slowly pass over and land. Someone had taken the local comm array offline so the area is currently unmonitored, and no one has said anything in chat so I have no idea what this dude's up to or what his intentions are. Honestly with visibility being so low and the fact that I had parked a relatively small Aurora he may not have even seen my ship coming down, but I wasn't about to find out, so I slunk out the side and gtfo of there.

    I only hope I spooked him a little bit in return when he heard me take off and rocket myself out of there.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    For me it was a late afternoon on Calliope. Similar sort of conditions on the Death Stranding world. Shit visibility, starting to get dark. Running back from the trade terminal with a package to deliver when I hear the rumble. Can barely see the edge of the landing pad when a Carrack lumbers out of the storm, warbling engine noise popping as it listed slightly from the wind speeds before crunching down.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
    Elvenshae
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    He used to be pretty good at it up until WCIV.
    Then he probably bonked his head between that and Freelancer, that was like a prototype for SC that got pressured into release by MS, IIRC. Great game, obviously had a bunch of stuff cut out.

    I think there's a bit more to it than that. WCIV was late and over-budget, but Strike Commander was also suffered from feature creep and was delivered way late (like, years), and was made and remade several times. I can't find a definitive list of who did what on Wing Commander 1 & 2, but I wonder if Roberts did most of the programming himself. As the technology has allowed for more complex games, he seems to have struggled to deliver and get sidetracked easily. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a mental illness piece in there as well.

    I don't have a horse in this race. Star Citizen sounds like a cool idea, but I'll never get around to playing it.

    Roberts built the prototype for WCI by himself, then had another five programmers (and Warren fuckin' Spector as co-producer) come in and help him get it shippable. It missed two release dates.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    The real question is why is there and overdose mechanic for the revive stim.

    I really get the impression they think they're making a PVP game where people will just work together naturally to fight other people but fail to understand that's not, and has never been, how PVP games work unless it's pretty rigidly enforced.

    Mr Raywebguy20Xeddicusrahkeesh2000Maijinamuro
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    That is fucking incredible.

    Edit: As to why it's there: it bolsters Chris Roberts' immersion, just like literally every other thing added to Star Citizen.

    Now we wait for the immersive wiping minigame hinted at by those hygine animations mentioned for Squadron 42.

    MechMantis on
    dkj3oHf.jpg
    BahamutZEROStormwatcher
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Actually y'know what if Chris Roberts gives me Space Station 13 But Crazy Pretty And Modern all is fucking forgiven.

    MechMantis on
    dkj3oHf.jpg
    BahamutZEROCampyApogeeThe Deliverator
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    The real question is why is there and overdose mechanic for the revive stim.

    I really get the impression they think they're making a PVP game where people will just work together naturally to fight other people but fail to understand that's not, and has never been, how PVP games work unless it's pretty rigidly enforced.

    I think its more the devs just naively forgetting that griefers will use any means they can find to ruin someone's play experience. I highly doubt that players intentionally overdosing other players in armistice zones so that they can either steal their gear or force them to respawn and lose it all was an intended (or even predicted) player activity.

    I'm guessing the response when finding out about it was a lot of forehead slapping and conversations that began with "Oh for fuck's sake..."

    hea7mcrkmvmx.jpg
    HappylilElfMr RayLord_Asmodeus
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Actually y'know what if Chris Roberts gives me Space Station 13 But Crazy Pretty And Modern all is fucking forgiven.

    So are we at the point now where we're abandoning hope on the original promise of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander: Privateer, set in a rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person?

    Until he does that, nothing is fucking forgiven.

    It's funny...going back and reading the original Kickstarter description makes the game sound amazing. Not some tweet about how a bullshit mechanic no one asked for is allowing people to aggressively grief people who were just hoping to fly some expensive ass digital spaceships around.

    Maijinamuro
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So are we at the point now where we're abandoning hope on the original promise of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander: Privateer, set in a rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person?

    This has been the case since the kickstarter ended after being funded over 12x the original asking amount.

    The Wing Commander HD concept that spawned Star Citizen is dead, and has been for almost a decade.

    hea7mcrkmvmx.jpg
    Stormwatcherrahkeesh2000Mr Ray
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    I didn't stutter. Give me ULTRA HIGH FIDELITY SS13 without fucking BYOND and I will throw a considerable amount of cash at CIG.

    But they won't, because they're too busy chasing whatever random idea Chris Roberts has dreamed up.

    dkj3oHf.jpg
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So are we at the point now where we're abandoning hope on the original promise of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander: Privateer, set in a rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person?

    This has been the case since the kickstarter ended after being funded over 12x the original asking amount.

    The Wing Commander HD concept that spawned Star Citizen is dead, and has been for almost a decade.

    and that's why i'm gonna complain about it
    cause it was so close
    i could feel it in my hands

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    ironzergDibbit
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So are we at the point now where we're abandoning hope on the original promise of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander: Privateer, set in a rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person?

    This has been the case since the kickstarter ended after being funded over 12x the original asking amount.

    The Wing Commander HD concept that spawned Star Citizen is dead, and has been for almost a decade.

    and that's why i'm gonna complain about it
    cause it was so close
    i could feel it in my hands

    Yeah, wow the fun sounding spaceship game that was originally pitched is definitely not here anymore and it's been replaced by....whatever all this is.

    From what I've read it feels like very early on the company became more interested in the various tech and systems than actually making the spaceship game.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    ironzergDibbit
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    So are we at the point now where we're abandoning hope on the original promise of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander: Privateer, set in a rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person?

    This has been the case since the kickstarter ended after being funded over 12x the original asking amount.

    The Wing Commander HD concept that spawned Star Citizen is dead, and has been for almost a decade.

    Correct. Star Citizen is a $300 million+ pile of bullshit.

    Stabbity StyleBlackDragon480ApogeeMaijinamuro
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    I didn't stutter. Give me ULTRA HIGH FIDELITY SS13 without fucking BYOND and I will throw a considerable amount of cash at CIG.

    Sadly, I don't think that the internet community that made ss13 as good as it was exists anymore. Maybe ss14 over on steam will surprise me, but even if you can recreate the game mechanically, high Fidelity or otherwise, I suspect that all you will get for a community are all the griefers, and also the people who are technically not griefers only because they wait for somebody to become a valid target for it first.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    NEO|Phyte wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    I didn't stutter. Give me ULTRA HIGH FIDELITY SS13 without fucking BYOND and I will throw a considerable amount of cash at CIG.

    Sadly, I don't think that the internet community that made ss13 as good as it was exists anymore. Maybe ss14 over on steam will surprise me, but even if you can recreate the game mechanically, high Fidelity or otherwise, I suspect that all you will get for a community are all the griefers, and also the people who are technically not griefers only because they wait for somebody to become a valid target for it first.

    The main problem is people are willing to tolerate transphobia/homophobia/bigotry period from server owners/runners. If I felt like taking it on I'd probably throw money at the problem, poach some coders from a few servers, and start my own damn SS13 server (with blackjack, and hookers) but I just do not have the energy for that on top of all my other obligations.

    But y'know.

    C'mon Chris Roberts.

    dkj3oHf.jpg
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Oh hell, I hadn't even thought of that angle of shitty community, I was focusing on the ingame behavior.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    The real question is why is there and overdose mechanic for the revive stim.

    I really get the impression they think they're making a PVP game where people will just work together naturally to fight other people but fail to understand that's not, and has never been, how PVP games work unless it's pretty rigidly enforced.

    I think its more the devs just naively forgetting that griefers will use any means they can find to ruin someone's play experience. I highly doubt that players intentionally overdosing other players in armistice zones so that they can either steal their gear or force them to respawn and lose it all was an intended (or even predicted) player activity.

    I'm guessing the response when finding out about it was a lot of forehead slapping and conversations that began with "Oh for fuck's sake..."

    Yeah that's kind of what I mean.

    If you're designing a game with PVP in mind you almost have to look at it completely differently from a perspective of "Ok, we're adding X. What can assholes do with X to be assholes and what if anything do we need to do to mitigate that?"

    ElvenshaeMr RayCalicaSurfpossumMortious
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    oh boy 3 new pages of posts! maybe there is SQ42 news!!!



    oh

    :(

    steam_sig.png
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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    oh boy 3 new pages of posts! maybe there is SQ42 news!!!



    oh

    :(

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    BahamutZEROrahkeesh2000
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    We've got healing gameplay now!

    And a new way of griefing people!

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    This is purely my speculation here.

    My guess is that the OD mechanic was originally envisioned to prevent people from just continually juicing during a fight so things don't descend in to a war of attrition.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    ElvenshaeMr RayLord_Asmodeus
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    They need to just remove negative effects from heals. Sure, that might decrease the realism, but that's ok. That's an easy thing to give up for better playability. This is a video game, after all.

    It's fine if they want to put ODs onto drugs and stuff, once they add recreational drugs into the game. But playing a healer should not become a chore. Healers are already having to sacrifice bag and pouch space to carry all those meds. It shouldn't be annoying too on top of that.

    "I'd love to heal you more, Bob, but you'll OD. Sorry."

  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    They need to just remove negative effects from heals. Sure, that might decrease the realism, but that's ok. That's an easy thing to give up for better playability. This is a video game, after all.

    It's fine if they want to put ODs onto drugs and stuff, once they add recreational drugs into the game. But playing a healer should not become a chore. Healers are already having to sacrifice bag and pouch space to carry all those meds. It shouldn't be annoying too on top of that.

    "I'd love to heal you more, Bob, but you'll OD. Sorry."

    In a vacuum, this seems like a decent way to try and encourage retreat over fighting to the death, knowing that you've only got a limited amount of healing incoming. Of course no game design survives contact with players, so it's pretty clear in need of a rethink.

    Which you know, is the entire point of these testing periods.

    ElvenshaeLord_Asmodeus
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    The current OD griefing thing is either just a minor oversight or something they haven't implemented the fix for yet. In both cases, the solution is extremely simple: nobody can dose anybody else in armistice zones, just like nobody can shoot in armistice zones. Then ODing still is a problem for over-use, but nobody can use the shots like weapons in armistice zones.

    I could readily believe they did this on purpose to see if people would figure it out and start hilariously medicating others unconscious.

    ElvenshaeMr Ray
This discussion has been closed.