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Games Done Quick: See You Next Mission

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    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Not that difficult to go through Twitter feeds or the like to see whether they fit the profile, so to speak.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    At the very least I'd expect them to interview the accused and the accuser, as well as try and track down the discord server and see if there are any logs of the messages. If it's a private server and the admin tells you to fuck off, reach out to people who have seen the accused chatting in public servers. There are multiple people in the original twitter thread who react with a "not surprised, I've seen this kind of language from them before" and I'd want to talk to them as well to try and see if anyone can come up with hard evidence.

    Going through all that in six fucking hours is impossible, and the fact that GDQ dismissed the original claims so quickly signals either an unwillingness to take the claims seriously, or (more likely, in my personal opinion) simple incompetence and ignorance.

    I say incompetence is more likely because wow that second statement of theirs (the "investigation is closed at this time" tweet) was just laughably bad. Like, how the fuck did they think that would read?

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    KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator Mod Emeritus
    The thing says 'This happened on a private server where we can't corroborate it so if you have other evidence, Please Send It To Us so we can do something'

    If you read that as 'We have no problems with these things being said and are taking no action' then you have an extremely serious problem with text comprehension and I cannot in good faith recommend that you continue to use internet forums.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    That was 15 minutes after their "Investigation is closed" tweet though, as well as 15 minutes after they put out that now deleted note about not banning people for differences in opinion. So investigation closed, people rightfully respond with "wtf?" and then they put out that clarifying statement stating that it was a private server and asking for further evidence (so I guess the investigation wasn't actually closed? Or something?)

    I recognize that people organizing a video game event for charity are not necessarily going to be equipped to handle something like this in the best manner, and I'm glad it worked out in the end. That said however, it was an unnecessarily confusing and bullshity initial response, and perhaps an event involving this much money and logistics and people should think about how they can better respond to such things in the future.

    ph blake on
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    KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator Mod Emeritus
    Please examine the difference between 'finished at this time, we welcome further reports' and 'investigation closed', and then please examine my previous comments about textual comprehension, and then please have a pleasant day.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    GDQ not including the "we welcome further reports" with their initial tweet and statement saying the "investigation is finished at this time" is the issue for me. Even with the "at this time" qualifier, calling an investigation finished implies a certain finality of action. This response, combined with short length of the investigation, caused people to voice their concerns, understandably so in my opinion. Only then does GDQ clarify that they are open to further reports. Putting that information in the initial statement eliminates this lag period and clears up much of the concern people have with the response (though I'd personally prefer a more strongly worded statement to indicate that they are actively seeking evidence, at this point that is just nitpicking).

    I'm done arguing this cause it mostly worked out in the end, but I'd be happy to talk about textual comprehension anytime you want.

    ph blake on
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    KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator Mod Emeritus
    If anyone is still having trouble with the subtext here, allow me to translate. The official statement reads:

    "Hey gang! We would absolutely love to throw these shitheads out. If we do that based on a screenshot of a private discord with no further evidence, it'll be about 4 seconds before some alt-right dickface has the brilliant idea of doctoring screens from a 'private' area of the internet and making it look like a trans runner admitted to molesting kids or killing a dog or something, and then all of these fuckos will wave their pitchforks and rally a shitload of loud and smelly Gamers to rage about Ethics and Double Standards if we don't also instantly ban them. So instead of doing that, we'd like to nail these shitwits in an unimpeachable fashion while not setting a precedent that can be exploited by psychopathic asswagons. Please send us more concrete evidence that can be independantly corroborated, so we can nail these cockmuffs to the wall.'

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    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    It's too late, everyone has already made up their minds immediately because that's what the Internet does.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I might be an Asshole here, but that seems... perfectly reasonable by GDQ? And maybe jumping on them that quickly was a little premature? They acknowledged what they received and that it was unacceptable but given the nature of screenshots did not want to incorrectly enforce action but upon getting corroborating evidence acted swiftly. That all appears to have occurred in the same day, is that seriously not fast enough?
    Their initial response was incorrect.

    First of all, they kept claiming the discussion / comments were "private" which they were not; anyone could go into the Discord in question and scroll up the history to see some of the comments.

    Second, "differing opinions" is a fucked up way to describe hatred for other people. "Some people want trans people to exist, other people don't! It's just an opinion!" Except we're talking about the safety of others' lives ultimately.

    Third, that second point gets extremely fucked up when you consider that a LOT of trans people helped make GDQ what it is and grow to what it has become. And the GDQ management has dropped the ball in supporting those trans people when it comes to runners / commentators dead-naming and such.

    Edit - They've made the right decision ultimately but it required blowback, so my trust in GDQ as an institution is diminished. They'll have to earn it back.

    Henroid on
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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    GDQ has not had a great track record with their responses to "controversy" in the past and also, and this is important context to bear in mind, queer people in gaming spaces are extremely accustomed to having their concerns brushed off or dismissed, with significant benefit of the doubt given to people who would gladly see us hurt or killed. Under the circumstances, their initial response was incredibly lacking and people were right to be upset about it.

    OmnipotentBagel on
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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Second, "differing opinions" is a fucked up way to describe hatred for other people.
    They were explicitly describing it as not that. This has been explained several times.

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    Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Demon Hunter for Hire Time RiftRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Henroid wrote: »
    I might be an Asshole here, but that seems... perfectly reasonable by GDQ? And maybe jumping on them that quickly was a little premature? They acknowledged what they received and that it was unacceptable but given the nature of screenshots did not want to incorrectly enforce action but upon getting corroborating evidence acted swiftly. That all appears to have occurred in the same day, is that seriously not fast enough?
    Their initial response was incorrect.

    First of all, they kept claiming the discussion / comments were "private" which they were not; anyone could go into the Discord in question and scroll up the history to see some of the comments.

    Second, "differing opinions" is a fucked up way to describe hatred for other people. "Some people want trans people to exist, other people don't! It's just an opinion!" Except we're talking about the safety of others' lives ultimately.

    Third, that second point gets extremely fucked up when you consider that a LOT of trans people helped make GDQ what it is and grow to what it has become. And the GDQ management has dropped the ball in supporting those trans people when it comes to runners / commentators dead-naming and such.

    Edit - They've made the right decision ultimately but it required blowback, so my trust in GDQ as an institution is diminished. They'll have to earn it back.

    *Shrug* I have no info go on other than the existence of screenshots and their comments. I can’t pass judgement on their decision making off that alone. If you or someone else wants to I can’t stop you, but I do think it’s ridiculous when there was a proper resolution to the situation. If the only correct response to anything is immediate frothing rabid anger then I don’t want to be right, who am I kidding, no matter how it was handled it wouldn’t make anyone happy, much easier to point out problems than reserve judgement I suppose.

    EDIT: Also, before it inevitably gets thrown out there, what occurred is of course absolutely awful and I condemn it in the harshest of ways, I just don’t make immediate calls on something without some kind of verification first. Trust, but verify.

    Blackhawk1313 on
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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Again, vulnerable queer people awaiting a judgement on whether or not a fairly prominent organization within the gaming community will be platforming a nazi

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

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    Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Demon Hunter for Hire Time RiftRegistered User regular
    Again, vulnerable queer people awaiting a judgement on whether or not a fairly prominent organization within the gaming community will be platforming a nazi

    And now being clearly confirmed as one they should be never given a platform ever again and it should be brought to the attention of anything at all they do so they can be appropriately excised from the planet.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.
    I'm not seeing a response anywhere that says that though?

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    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Crossposting this from the other thread. It was in response to just Henroid but I think it applies overall:
    They're not a corporation that spends hours and hours crafting a carefully worded statement. It's possible they made a mistake, deleted the mistake, and corrected the mistake, man. I agree with you on pretty much all of this but you're a little overenthusiastic about them being sympathizers or something when in reality it just feels like they're ordinary people that got caught up in a crappy situation and dealt with it as best as they could.

    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.

    So your problem is they didn't add the word "yet"?

    Goose! on
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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Goose! wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.

    So your problem is they didn't add the word "yet"?

    At the time there was no good reason to expect a follow-up from there, as I explained in an earlier post. I dunno, I'm just sick of people tone policing marginalized folks whenever there's something we have reason to get upset over. At best it's exhausting and at worst it's actively combative.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Goose! wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.

    So your problem is they didn't add the word "yet"?

    At the time there was no good reason to expect a follow-up from there, as I explained in an earlier post. I dunno, I'm just sick of people tone policing marginalized folks whenever there's something we have reason to get upset over. At best it's exhausting and at worst it's actively combative.

    For me, "please send us more evidence and we'll re-evaluate" was enough to indicate a follow-up would come if it was deserved. It's fine if that's not good enough for you, and if that was the last they said despite more evidence showing up then that would be a problem. But that's not what happened, so I'm pretty OK with how it played out.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    There is also the fact these were brought to the GDQ staff by someone who themselves is also banned from GDQ for being an alt right shit fucker herself. So I'd say some initial caution about the validity of the information was warranted.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.
    I'm not seeing a response anywhere that says that though?
    They deleted the tweet(s) in question that said as such.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Goose! wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    It only took them like 9 hours though?

    Their initial response, the one that people got upset about that's being maligned, was to say "we cannot verify these claims so we will not be acting on them" which is a pretty standard response you get from companies that don't intend to do anything about the problem.

    So your problem is they didn't add the word "yet"?
    This is a shockingly privileged response to give. OmnipotentBagel is right; marginalized people often get shrugged off with comments like that. Promises of "oh we'll look into it" that lead to nothing, etc. You can't blame people for assuming GDQ was done with the matter. And frankly they may well have been if not for people catching it and highlighting it. Which is often what it takes to get any organization to put some goddamn effort into things.

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    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    You're giving the least charitable reading of their statements and actions possible, and the situation was resolved the same day, because they got exactly what they asked for (more evidence).

    Along with their track record for having questionable bans on people for things they do/did on the streams they run for charity comes another track record: one of being as inclusive as possible, and showcasing more LGBTQ+ performers in a gaming setting than I have ever seen anywhere else. And doing their best to support those runners and provide them an environment that is safe and welcoming (despite the usual toxic dumpster fire that is Twitch streams generally). The big picture is important, but considering the source is also important.

    Goose! on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I leave it to the QUILTBAG community to decide who and who isn't being good to them. The bulk of them have said in varying ways that GDQ righted the situation, but the initial reaction from GDQ has left them with less trust in the organization.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Some people assumed the worst about someone due to their experiences with similar people in similar situations, without actually having much information or evidence about them or the current situation.

    I feel like there's a word to describe this sort of thing.

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    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    Do you like your speed runs long? How about really long? Or how about the Really Really Long Athon? https://horaro.org/rrlat2/rrlat2

    twitch.tv/speedgaming3 It started 12 hours ago with FFXII Order of Ambrosia% (beat the game while obtaining the "Order of Ambrosia" clan rank).

    The run is being performed by the WR holder with a time of 23:54:46

    The marathon runs for 2 weeks.

    And the shortest run is Harvest Moon A Wonderful Life Marriage% Nami, clocking in at 1 hour.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    jesus

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    a one day long speed run is something I could not in any reasonable sense ever do without wanting to die

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    RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    That sounds horrible.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I think that's just a 'run' at that point.

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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Last year's really-long-athon had Baiten Kaitos 100% as the show runner. It's a 130 hour run (you have to have a certain item in your inventory and let a certain amount of hours pass outside of menus for it to transform).

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    DaebunzDaebunz Registered User regular
    I looked at the schedule and an entire 24hrs dedicated to mario games

    but somewhere in there is robopon moon @ 2hrs and I might tune in for that? I love those games

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    They should do Mario 64 TASes that involve building up PU speed for several days.

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    yoooooooooo


    The Global Speedrun Association, a new competitive speedrunning league, will be doing a Celeste league with live finals in April, with a guaranteed $5000 prize pool.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Seeing a person good at both games do an SMZ3 randomizer is goddamn wizardry

This discussion has been closed.