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[The Elder Scrolls] Stolen? No! This one found this thread by the side of the road.

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Remind me how many towers even remain after ES5? Every game from 2-5 broke a tower, and I want to say at least one more broke between 4 and 5.

    It's... complicated.
    I actually got into a fight with a guy on Dreamsleeve (discord I'm in for EXTREEM LORE NERDZ) over what constituted "broken"; he argued with me that all the Towers are totally fine and that White-Gold was just "replaced" by the new covenant with Akatosh, which... is not how I see it at all. So, it's actually a controversial topic. This dude claimed that the Wiki is totally wrong and misleading, and I'm like, you're a fucking idiot and you aren't paying attention to what the actual stories in the games are saying, you moron. But, whatever. I've still listed That Guy's arguments for the sake of completeness.

    Each tower has a Stone at its heart which gives it power. When a Tower loses its Stone, it isn't a Tower anymore.

    Adamantium: aka Tower Zero aka Ada-mantia aka Direnni. It's on Balifera Isle. To basically everybody's knowledge, it's fine, and has never been breached. Supposedly, this is the first thing the Divines created, and the place where they killed Lokharn and shot his heart off to Red Mountain.

    Red: Red Mountain. The Nerevarine showed up and broke the binding enchantments on the Heart of Lokharn, causing it to fuck off to... who knows where, honestly. IN MY OPINION, even though the Heart still exists, this Tower has Fallen. In That Guy's opinion, since the Heart still exists, Red Mountain is still a Tower. I think his theory is fucking stupid especially since it's the Tower holding up Morrowind and immediately after Oblivion, Morrowind gets blown the fuck up by a meteor. That Guy's only good counter-argument is from the Prophecy of the Dragonborn says "The Red Tower Trembles / The White Tower Falls" and he tried to say that because it doesn't say that Red FELL so it DIDN'T and I'm like. You're an idiot. So, anyway.

    White-Gold: This is the Imperial City, specifically, the Tower at the middle. That Guy says that Martin Septim totally replaced the Tower Stone / the Imperial Line so it's FINE now guys. I'm like, you're a fucking idiot. The Amulet of Kings was the Stone, it's gone now; the New Covenant of Akatosh keeps the Daedra from just walking the fuck in and wrecking shit whenever they want, but White Gold is NOT a tower anymore. To me, again, this is represented by how the Empire has been slowly falling to pieces ever since Oblivion.

    Crystal-Like-Law: Absolutely definetly got blown up off-screen during the Oblivion Crisis. That Guy for once actually admitted that Crystal is deffo destroyed, because he hates ESO lore and doesn't think ESO revealing that Crystal-Like-Law fractally spirals through infinite realities means that it might still be around. I also think it's not around, because I feel like whatever happened to it post Oblivion Crisis was a Big Deal. I think this may be a reason the Thalmor are on the warpath -- the High Elves WANT the world destroyed so they can go back to existing in non-linear time, or something. My theory is that Crystal-Like-Law was a thing that forced them into harmonious existence with Tamriel, and with that gone, they don't give a fuck anymore. This is supported by the book Rising Threat, which basically says that the Thalmor swept in as soon as Crystal-Like-Law fell to fill a power vaccum. (This is also why I think the Thalmor are the ones who are going to try to destroy Adamantine.)

    Snow Throat: Is... complicated, and probably fine. Snow-Throat is on its surface the Throat of the World. the poem I linked above in the Prophecy of the Dragonborn implies that Snow-Throat is ALSO Skyrim itself, or, more specifically, the Nords; which is honestly why I think that Red Mountain is done. Each Tower may well be tied to one of the peoples / nations of Tamriel in some way (Red => Morrowind, White-Gold => Cyrodiil, Crystal => Summerset, etc). It is *possible* that the Stone of Snow Throat was actually Skyrim itself, in some way, which means that the Dragonborn *might* have saved it. It's also possible that the Stone is a "cave" or that it's Paarthunax, which... makes the whole Blades FORCING you to kill him make more sense if that ends up being canon. So, basically, I'm not sure about this one?

    Green Sap: Is every single Graht-Oak. Meaning, if you wanted to destroy it, you'd have to render the species extinct and destroy the entirety of Valenwood. Right now, it's fine.

    Orichalc: Was on Yokuda and sank with it beneath the waves. Given my previous mumblings about how the Towers seem to be in some way tied to the fortunes of their nations, it's probably super dead.

    Walk-Brass: Blown up in the ending of Daggerfall.

    That Guy seemed convinced that the Mane & the Khajiiti people are, themselves, a Tower; maybe we'll find out with the Elswyr expansion, but I think he's still an idiot. If he's not an idiot, and ALL the races/nations have Towers of a kind... then the Argonians WOULDN'T have a Tower -- or rather, they may have tried to build one, but then their continent sank, because they're children of the Hist, which are creatures of Sithis / the Void and antithetical to the whole concept of Towers. The Alyieds did canonically try to build one in Rivenspire, but that's the Doomcrag; it kinda ended up an Anti-Tower, of sorts. Then we blew it up. But mostly he's a fucking idiot because the Staff of Towers only has eight segments; and one of those segments was built before the Tower in question was, implying that there's a metaphysical reason for Eight. This also tracks with Eight (original) Divines dividing Sixteen Oblivion Realms.

    TL;DR -- In *my* opinion, 5 of the Towers are totally gone (Red, White-Gold, Crystal, Orichalc, Walk-Brass). Two are known to be perfectly fine (Ada-mantia and Green Sap). One is a wibbly wobbly question mark (Snow Throat). Either way, more than half of the Towers are busted at this point.

    My suspicion is that Snow Throat really is busted, due to the Civil War & other things. Green Sap may be destroyed between Skyrim and VI; the Thalmor perhaps burning down the entirety of Valenwood just to be dicks to the Bosmer. Which would leave Adamantium.

    Yeah.
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I don't think Bethesda has the budget to do that, frankly.

    Like I said, they've done it already. Arena was all of Tamriel, and while Daggerfall was more focused on one geographical area, it had 5000 towns and 15,000 locations overall. All of it felt pretty generated and impersonal, except for the main quest which was more hand-designed.

    But given the advances in that area recently and how it has driven interest and sales for other games and genres, I wonder if it's something they might try. Even Oblivion's and Skyrim's wildernesses were mostly procedurally generated and then tweaked by hand.

    And again I'm not saying it's what I want. But it's something I can Todd saying up on a stage.

    I mean, technically ESO has... well, not quite ALL of Tamriel yet, but an awful freaking lot of it, and it grows with each new content release. I do think they'll eventually get to the whole continent.

    That said though, ESO has the advantage of being an MMO, where it's expected that you release with SOME things, but then tack on new stuff every few months. It's much harder to get a whole big thing done at once, and the end result can feel... very stretched thin. In fact, that's my big problem with Arena and Daggerfall: Sure, it's HUGE! But it feels... thinly spread around (esp with how Daggerfall has so many procedurally generated dungeons) in comparison to how dense Morrowind is. Then Cyrodiil feels similarly weirdly empty, while Skyrim goes back to feeling like there's actually STUFF.

    Personally, I'd rather they go for a smaller area, but polish it more and make it more dense and alive.


    Lucid_Seraph on
    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Did that guy in Skyrim have a small piece of the heart of Lorkhan, or just Sunder and Keening?

    I know I've gotten this in ESO a bunch of times lol.

    Wk6Ux23.png

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Did that guy in Skyrim have a small piece of the heart of Lorkhan, or just Sunder and Keening?

    I know I've gotten this in ESO a bunch of times lol.

    The implication about stolen stuff like that is that they're fakes :P Bit like how medieval Christian priests would sell fragments of the Shroud of Turin or whatever.

    Anyway, as for the question:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arniel_Gane

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arniel's_Endeavor

    It's not a piece of the Heart of Lorkharn; it's just a Warped Soul Gem (whatever that is). *edit* He also didn't even have Sunder, JUST Keening, and Keening seemed to have lost a bunch of its power since the Nerevarine mucked around with it.

    Lucid_Seraph on
    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    The Nerevarine! That mucking bastard.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    The lore behind the vanishing of the dwemer is one of my favorite TES things.

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    BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Hopefully we never find out what actually happened.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    uzqgL1G.gif

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Hopefully we never find out what actually happened.

    WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, BIONIC
    ~drops hockey gloves~

    fight fight fight

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Well, what I don't want to happen is "hey we found out what happened for sure, it is very sad and a cautionary tale."

    What I would not be opposed to happening is some future game where the Dwemer kick down the door of Nirn from the ninth dimension, tearing a hole in time and space to conquer the world with their advanced steampunk technology they've been developing all this time.

    Maybe it should be non-canon, though.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    I personally like the theory that the Dwemer realized they were in a videogame and decided not to be.

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    SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Is it only a problem because she has an elder scroll? What if she didn't, but knew where it was, and won't help you until you help her get back to the castle? Or what if you didn't know she had it on her, which would only make sense if elder scrolls were smaller and more concealable than they decided to make them?

    Also isn't she the only official content Skyrim companion that even starts to brush up against the character of Fallout NV/4 companions? She's ok. She's got an interesting story. And
    there's a really difficult-to-trigger way to become good friends with her and convince her to become human. Like I think counterintuitively you have to act as if vampirism is ok and not shame her at all.
    turns out treating someone like a human reminds them of what it is to BE human and makes them perhaps miss that. who knew?

    (I speak as someone with several severe mental illnesses; it's a thing, y'all)

    I actually did warm up to her in the end, but sometimes she still infuriates me.
    Serana never infuriated me, but I did feel bad for her because my character was using Dawnbreaker as their weapon. She spent more time on fire than not.

    5gsowHm.png
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Dawnguard is a pretty easy fix. Just have Serana not have the scroll yet when you meet her.

    Take her to the Dawnguard- we wanna know what they are planning, have her take you there.

    Take her to the vampires- thank you for helping my daughter, now go finish her mission

    Then make the final choice once you get the scroll. Maybe with a vision of what it can do to up the importance. If you want to railroad things with the scroll maybe Serana takes it no matter what but how you've interacted with her up to this point determines if she comes back to help later or if you need to go hunt her down.

    Aistan on
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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

    People do stupid things all the time like openly worship a daedric prince who is absolutely hated by three other daedric princes (and also absolutely hates their own followers).

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

    People do stupid things all the time like openly worship a daedric prince who is absolutely hated by three other daedric princes (and also absolutely hates their own followers).

    People commit small sacrileges here and there, but the sheer scale of the Dwemer's blasphemy necessitated a more dramatic response.

    They were an entire race of people whose culture was centered around, not just indifference, but outright contempt for both the powers of the divine and the profane, and whose politics were dedicating almost all of their resources into usurping godhood.

    They were practically begging for someone to make an an example out of them.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

    People do stupid things all the time like openly worship a daedric prince who is absolutely hated by three other daedric princes (and also absolutely hates their own followers).

    People commit small sacrileges here and there, but the sheer scale of the Dwemer's blasphemy necessitated a more dramatic response.

    They were an entire race of people whose culture was centered around, not just indifference, but outright contempt for both the powers of the divine and the profane, and whose politics were dedicating almost all of their resources into usurping godhood.

    They were practically begging for someone to make an an example out of them.

    It’s possible, look at what Malacath did to the orcs or Azura to the Chimer.

    On the other hand they could have just made an error using the heart of Lorkhan. Or they could have not made an error and just fucked off to a higher plane of existence.

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

    People do stupid things all the time like openly worship a daedric prince who is absolutely hated by three other daedric princes (and also absolutely hates their own followers).

    People commit small sacrileges here and there, but the sheer scale of the Dwemer's blasphemy necessitated a more dramatic response.

    They were an entire race of people whose culture was centered around, not just indifference, but outright contempt for both the powers of the divine and the profane, and whose politics were dedicating almost all of their resources into usurping godhood.

    They were practically begging for someone to make an an example out of them.

    It’s possible, look at what Malacath did to the orcs or Azura to the Chimer.

    On the other hand they could have just made an error using the heart of Lorkhan. Or they could have not made an error and just fucked off to a higher plane of existence.

    Yeah, those are probably the three most popular theories (in-universe), and there's plenty of evidence to support each of them.

    But when I take Occam's Razor to the situation, the explanation that makes the most sense to me is that they strayed too far outside their lane and caught the wrong cosmic entity's attention.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore

    The Escape Goat on
    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.

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    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    "We will use science to surpass the very gods themselves!" said the Dwemer, out loud, where all the gods could easily hear them.

    Gee, I wonder why all the Dwemer disappeared?

    People do stupid things all the time like openly worship a daedric prince who is absolutely hated by three other daedric princes (and also absolutely hates their own followers).

    People commit small sacrileges here and there, but the sheer scale of the Dwemer's blasphemy necessitated a more dramatic response.

    They were an entire race of people whose culture was centered around, not just indifference, but outright contempt for both the powers of the divine and the profane, and whose politics were dedicating almost all of their resources into usurping godhood.

    They were practically begging for someone to make an an example out of them.

    It’s possible, look at what Malacath did to the orcs or Azura to the Chimer.

    On the other hand they could have just made an error using the heart of Lorkhan. Or they could have not made an error and just fucked off to a higher plane of existence.

    I don't think what happened to the orcs was entirely Malacath's fault. Or at least, I don't think he intentionally transformed his people. It was just a side-effect of what happened between him and Boethiah.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    We are the dwemer. The experiment with the heart caused us to ascend to a new existence, but in doing so we lost our memories of who we were and what we had done. We arrived on this earth ages ago, a place without a sentient population to mold it. We are finally waking up to this fact, and able to look inward at the "video game" universe we left, and laugh at those still trapped in that plane.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    You know, playing through skyrim again I feel like oblivion could have really been a great game. If they remade it with mostly the same storyline but upgraded the engine to Skyrim SE standards, fixed the wonky combat and advancement, did a terrain pass/added more to see in the world, and replaced the repetitive dungeons/oblivion gates with hand crafted skyrim style dungeons with their own little stories I think it would be a classic. In a way this is what shivering isles was, and that was great.

    I know oblivion SE would be a lot more work than skyrim se, but on the other hand they already have the voice work and a lot of the core assets are just fine with a retexture and some spit and polish.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    All I ever wanted was a port of Morrowind to the 3DS.

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore
    Delduwath wrote: »
    Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.

    Dang, I have a signature quote now, I guess.

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    In the next game I demand to do a quest for a somewhat mentally unstable guy who claims to be writing the younger scrolls.

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Oh yeah? Well if you think that's good i've got an Eldest Scroll right here in this back room!

    Only 50 gold to see it for yourself, though naturally you'll need to close your eyes or else you'll go blind.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular


    I don't know why I'm a little hype for this game.

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    I completely forgot about that game.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I was gonna post in this thread like a day ago "WHERE'S BLADES DAMMIT"

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    You know, playing through skyrim again I feel like oblivion could have really been a great game. If they remade it with mostly the same storyline but upgraded the engine to Skyrim SE standards, fixed the wonky combat and advancement, did a terrain pass/added more to see in the world, and replaced the repetitive dungeons/oblivion gates with hand crafted skyrim style dungeons with their own little stories I think it would be a classic. In a way this is what shivering isles was, and that was great.

    I know oblivion SE would be a lot more work than skyrim se, but on the other hand they already have the voice work and a lot of the core assets are just fine with a retexture and some spit and polish.

    It's not a bad idea in a vacuum, but now would be the worst possible time for it.

    Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 were... experimental, and received a mixed reception. Bethesda Studios needs to earn back some of the good will they've lost by showing they can still get those meat-and-potatoes RPG mechanics right. And the only way they can do that is with new games.

    If they announce a remake now, it will likely be met with ridicule. "Bethesda can't remember how to make RPGs, so now they're begging us to buy their old ones again." They need to focus on pushing back against the perception that they're out of touch, not feed into it.

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    MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular


    I don't know why I'm a little hype for this game.

    What is it?

    From the little blurb they just describe it as a dungeon crawler with an endless mode, which isn't all that informative.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    "A dungeon crawler" is exactly what Blades is. Hearkening back to the olden days.

    I am optimistic, but then again, gonna wait until it hits PC.

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    L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    It's Elder Scrolls: Diablo Mobile.

    No thanks.

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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    I woke up to ES Blades installed on my phone (because I preordered it months ago). I was super excited! I launched it... it played the intro, I killed a dude, and then I got... a main menu with a thanks for downloading and "keep your notifications enabled so you know when you can play" because apparently even though I'm "in" the early access, they're rolling it out in waves or some such nonsense so I have to wait to actually play it.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    It's Elder Scrolls: Diablo Mobile.

    No thanks.
    I think it's more like The Elder Scrolls: Travels: People Can Actually Play Them Now.

    I never got to play any of the Travels games because I never had a phone that could run them, which I was bummed about. I was very pleasantly surprised when I was reading about them in the last couple of years and saw that they were very much set in established locations in Tamriel. It wasn't just a bunch of throwaway no-name dungeons or villages or whatever. Like, Dawnstar was set in... Dawnstar, which we then visit in Skyrim. It also seemed like they were much more sophisticated than I would have expected, with quests and NPCs and everything.

    Blades looks like a much more simplified experience, but for where I am in my life, that's actually perfect. A pick-up-and-play game that I can play in small increments whenever I feel like it while listening to a podcast is preferable to a sprawling epic, because I just don't have the time and space at the moment for one of those.

    I'm very excited about Blades.

    (Doubly-so because it looks like we'll be shoving some blades into Thalmor.)

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Mostly I can't wait until they do it up like Fallout Shelter and put it on everything under the sun including consoles and PC. I don't really care to play it on the phone, but I will if that's all it's on right now. I like roguelikes. And I like city building.

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    MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Hopefully it's not the normal Elder Scrolls combat style then, and something more dynamic?

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Some fun stuff being posted on reddit already:

    zmGIX71.png

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    Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Mortious wrote: »
    Hopefully it's not the normal Elder Scrolls combat style then, and something more dynamic?

    The Thalmor dude I killed in the intro was your usual TES 1st-person view of your weapon out, and then basically tap your weapon to fast attack or tap/hold/release for a strong attack. I couldn't move or block in any way, and the Thalmor never moved but he did duck sometimes. I have ZERO idea how representative this is of the game, though, since I still can't actually play past that.

    Pixelated Pixie on
    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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