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[The Elder Scrolls] Stolen? No! This one found this thread by the side of the road.

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Bethesda loves to put you "in charge" of everything and having it actually mean almost nothing.

    what, do you want to spend the rest of the game filling requisition orders and doing paperwork?

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 5
    Bethesda loves to put you "in charge" of everything and having it actually mean almost nothing.

    what, do you want to spend the rest of the game filling requisition orders and doing paperwork?
    Like I said, the game is an abstraction. Perhaps more importantly, it's a game.

    Nobody wants to play Real World Simulator. It's just like how the audience for MS Flight Simulator is practically nonexistent while pretty much everyone plays some variant of arcade flying shooters. Even Pilotwings' sales figures dwarf any flight simulator's sales numbers, perhaps even combined (Pilotwings sold 2 million copies, flight simulators show numbers in the tens-to-hundreds of thousands at the most).

    Real-world leadership is hard, and you have a lot less power than you think. The closer you get to real-world approximation, and the further you get from abstractions, the more you run into real-world constraints and complexities that nobody actually understands or wants to deal with.

    I have suggested many times that the much-hated Master of Orion 3 is, in fact, an excellent simulation of being a Galactic Emperor: spending all day every day sitting on your ... throne, looking at maps and reading reports and spreadsheets and listening to advisors, then issuing broad orders and policies which you hope will be competently carried out by your many layers of underlings, while somewhere very very far away other people are doing all the stuff that's actually interesting. (Which you only hear about after the fact, if ever.)

    On the other hand, it sure would be nice if you could use your position as supposed leader of, e.g., FO4's Institute to make them stop being pointlessly evil and use their resources to help people. But that's not allowed, I guess.

    Commander Zoom on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Hey, I gave Fast Eddie some potions and he went and got me a magic ring. That's being in charge, right?

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 5
    All joking aside, this is something Skywind is working on that I'm actually stupid excited about (and miss working on with them...). There's actual capstones and duties involved in each of the Guild quests, really big ones. The last thing I was working on before I hit burnout + a bunch of horrible IRL bullshit was the Fighter's Guild capstone.

    Lucid_Seraph on
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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Bethesda loves to put you "in charge" of everything and having it actually mean almost nothing.

    It was extremely refreshing in Elder Scrolls: Online to not end up as the head of every faction you join. It made doing the repeatable/daily missions for faction rewards still feel logical and didn't involve making the faction leader take dumb actions to enable my character's promotion.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 5
    Bethesda loves to put you "in charge" of everything and having it actually mean almost nothing.

    It was extremely refreshing in Elder Scrolls: Online to not end up as the head of every faction you join. It made doing the repeatable/daily missions for faction rewards still feel logical and didn't involve making the faction leader take dumb actions to enable my character's promotion.

    Iirc even in the cases where the faction leaders do do A Stupid (iirc Fighter's Guild for sure), YOU don't end up in charge, because YOU are a weird wandering semi-undead vagabond who is going to be leaving soon!

    *edit* man I haven't played ESO in forever but I remember loving Thieves Guild Heists and Dark Brotherhood Sacraments. I actually had a build that made both pretty trivial, that was useless in basically every single other situation. It could kinda, sorta, be OK for spying in PVP, but if you got caught it was like "Welp, guess I'll die." I think I had negative stealth radius lmao. Everything other than the guards holding lamps I could basically stand *on top of* and they couldn't see me.

    Lucid_Seraph on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited June 5
    I felt like morrowind was a bit insane with putting you in charge of random groups.


    Like, I know I got a cool artifact for you and all, but are you really sure you want to put my argonian lizardman ass as the Patriarch of the Tribunal temple?

    Jealous Deva on
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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 5
    I felt like morrowind was a bit insane with putting you in charge.


    Like, I know I got a cool artifact for you and all, but are you really sure you want to put my argonian lizardman ass as the Patriarch of the Tribunal temple?

    ok but getting in charge of the Telvanni when you're a non-dunmer woman is hilarious tho

    *edit* yeah as for the temple that's like "Right, and now this one is declaring that in fact Vivec is an aspect of Baan-dar. Not the other way around."

    Vivec: "lmao that's funny go off bestie"

    Lucid_Seraph on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I kind of petered out on Morrowind. I hit the top rank of the Tribunal Temple, Mage's Guild, and Telvanni, and 1 away from Imperial Cult. But doing it with a bit of fast travel reveals how fetch-questy the game really is. I don't think I can do anymore "go into this cave to get this random thing and bring it back" missions, when the caves are all very samey and the combat has become rote. Do Tribunal and Bloodmoon fix any of that? Bloodmoon's next thing is "visit these 6 shrines" which is pretty boring and feels like something I already did in the base game a few times.

    Been spending more time with Oblivion instead. Also as a magic-user. I actually went through with becoming a vampire. I usually never bother since it always seems like more trouble than it's worth. I think that's still true, because now after the cure I'm stuck with permanent Hunter's Sight, so every NPC has a pink cloud around them. Trying to find a way to get rid of it, no luck so far.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Figured out my Hunter's Sight issue. I've been playing with the Last Seed Wabbajack list, which has a mod that make's Hunter's Sight a toggle. However, if you cure your vampirism with it toggled on, you just lose the toggle spell, but it doesn't toggle off. I had to give myself the spell back to toggle it back off. I think I might keep it, as a treat.

    Do you guys ever make up a roleplaying justification why your character does such a wide variety of quests and guilds? I might do a good portion of everything this time around but it's pretty weird for the same person to do a bunch of Daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood, and go through the Arena and Mage's Guild. I thought maybe he's some kind of amoral academic, but I'm not sure that justifies it.

    The Unoffical Patch makes killing the Arena Grand Champion not a murder, so I'm going to have to find someone to murder to get started on the Dark Brotherhood. There's another mod that requires you to do a murder in order to buy the Vile Lair DLC house, so I'll be killing 2 birds with one stone.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I don't recall if I already said so on this thread, but I made several different characters to do all the things in Oblivion. My Hero of Kvatch (and later head of the Fighters Guild) is not the same person as the Arena Champion, etc. (My Archmage is the Grey Vixen, though, which made the quest where she had to steal something from herself rather amusing.)

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Do you guys ever make up a roleplaying justification why your character does such a wide variety of quests and guilds? I might do a good portion of everything this time around but it's pretty weird for the same person to do a bunch of Daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood, and go through the Arena and Mage's Guild. I thought maybe he's some kind of amoral academic, but I'm not sure that justifies

    The answer is “none at all”. In morrowind there are limits based on your skills. So it’s much harder to be the master of many guilds unless you’re max maxing and really trying with maybe the exception of mages/temples since there is more overlap and I think the intention is that you do one or two on your way to finishing the main quest because you get stuck on skill ups. And then you do others on a different character. But now we know how everything works too well and we can max max our characters into absurdity.

    Oblivion got rid of the restrictions and just let you play your character forever. Which is fine really. But it highlights the thematic problems.

    It also limits the ability of the game to push you back to the main quest. In morrowind you go and do fighters build and mage build quests, and, so long as you’re just playing then… you get stuck on skill ups and then you’re like “what do I do now? Might as well check in on the main quest”. This is the organic and intended non-grinding way to play is my understanding.

    Oblivion doesn’t have that checkbox stop. So once you’re in a quest line you just go and finish it. Additionally since so many quests are fetch quests but you cannot as easily fast travel without some deep game knowledge and you have to like, look at your journal due to a lack of quest markers, it’s more likely you run into something else to do along the way.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I tend to "RP" as an opportunistic character who will do anything for personal gain, solely because that's the easiest way to justify doing whatever looks fun. Occasionally on a later playthrough I'll try to be more restrictive on what quests I do.

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Figured out my Hunter's Sight issue. I've been playing with the Last Seed Wabbajack list, which has a mod that make's Hunter's Sight a toggle. However, if you cure your vampirism with it toggled on, you just lose the toggle spell, but it doesn't toggle off. I had to give myself the spell back to toggle it back off. I think I might keep it, as a treat.

    Do you guys ever make up a roleplaying justification why your character does such a wide variety of quests and guilds? I might do a good portion of everything this time around but it's pretty weird for the same person to do a bunch of Daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood, and go through the Arena and Mage's Guild. I thought maybe he's some kind of amoral academic, but I'm not sure that justifies it.

    The Unoffical Patch makes killing the Arena Grand Champion not a murder, so I'm going to have to find someone to murder to get started on the Dark Brotherhood. There's another mod that requires you to do a murder in order to buy the Vile Lair DLC house, so I'll be killing 2 birds with one stone.

    Up until Skyrim, my go to character was Nightblade style build so they'd actually have skills that fit all of the guilds. Mage guild was the most tenuous as I'd only really use Illusion magic and enchanting, but it still fit.

    Come Skyrim, it's felt a bit weirder.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
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    McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Figured out my Hunter's Sight issue. I've been playing with the Last Seed Wabbajack list, which has a mod that make's Hunter's Sight a toggle. However, if you cure your vampirism with it toggled on, you just lose the toggle spell, but it doesn't toggle off. I had to give myself the spell back to toggle it back off. I think I might keep it, as a treat.

    Do you guys ever make up a roleplaying justification why your character does such a wide variety of quests and guilds? I might do a good portion of everything this time around but it's pretty weird for the same person to do a bunch of Daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood, and go through the Arena and Mage's Guild. I thought maybe he's some kind of amoral academic, but I'm not sure that justifies it.

    The Unoffical Patch makes killing the Arena Grand Champion not a murder, so I'm going to have to find someone to murder to get started on the Dark Brotherhood. There's another mod that requires you to do a murder in order to buy the Vile Lair DLC house, so I'll be killing 2 birds with one stone.

    My favorite way to join the Dark Brotherhood is to do the quest "Paranoia" as instructed.

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Do you guys ever make up a roleplaying justification why your character does such a wide variety of quests and guilds? I might do a good portion of everything this time around but it's pretty weird for the same person to do a bunch of Daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood, and go through the Arena and Mage's Guild. I thought maybe he's some kind of amoral academic, but I'm not sure that justifies it.

    for my second Skyrim playthrough (that I sadly never finished and the save file is lost and also it was modded to hell) my (dark elf) character called herself the Envoy of Boethiah, and so just as Boethiah wears many faces to weave their plots, so, too, did the Envoy.

    ... for my other characters I mostly excused it as "Khajiit is easily bored"

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Legacy of the Dragonborn curator: "huh, weird, we've got a spot for some artifacts related to this faction, guess i better join them."

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