I was going to ask if the thing where Five is an evil mind-controlling serial rapist and her disciple was a super-misogynist barely restrained serial killer was a one-off but based on the above I'm guessing not
most of the disciples are completely emasculated sex slaves and five is the biggest piece of shit of all the intoners and the entire dynamic is a reversal of the male power fantasy
No, I get it, the game is supposed to make you feel icky. It does a real good job, because it feels icky! Zero's fun enough but she's also reprehensible, which is an interesting balance
DDO and DDO3 feel like they're way, way more aggressively unpleasant than Nier, what with Nier having way fewer child-murderers, cannibals, and rapists as PCs. Is Automata more on the Nier side or the DDO side?
Edit: Also with regards to previous discussion, Mikhail is a good, nice boy more or less on level with Emil
she has never had to face responsibility for her actions, is effectively immortal, and has people who grovel at the feet of intoners
she's an unchecked power-fantasy placed in a position that almost mandates she be heroic
Actually
It's unclear on how long she actually went around being an intoner. Remember she was human and had a capital shitty life.
They only became famous after the 1-5 series came into being, and that was, obviously, after she tried to kill herself to stop the flower.
I'm not arguing that she isn't an unchecked power fantasy, because she is.
But she's not a bad person god being thing. She's basically a flawed Jesus.
Also yeah, all of the intoners are aspects of Zero's personality turned up to 11. Saying Zero is 5 is like holding Dwayne Johnson accountable for all of The Rock's actions, from a legal standpoint. Even moreso if they are literally seperate people.
On the people she unabashedly murders
They all are actively defending the Intoners, who Zero needs to kill. Unfortunately, they were standing in the path of a violence freight train.
I mean, you could argue that she should have just sat everyone down and just explained everything, but, hilariously the game addresses that too.
1. Try explaining to World Governments that the God-Beings who gave you everlasting peace are actually here to destroy the World.
2. That's LITERALLY A PLOT POINT in the true ending. One, after the prologue tries to figure out why Zero has gone Nuclear option, and eventually figures out that the Flower is the key to everything.
Not only that, she AGREES. with Zero's course of action. It's why she doesn't " rally the troops" so to speak like the prologue.
The entire summation of One's beef is that Zero didn't trust them enough to tell them, and thier final conflict boils down to two very good takes on the situation.
One can't just let Zero do her thing and let Zero kill her because, if anything, she's literally the Immortal patient zero(HEH), and no one, even Zero is unsure if a Dragon can actually kill her, and even then, if the Flower itself will even let her do it, since she's technically the root. The safe bet is for Zero to let One kill her, and then One can safely commit suicide, either by Dragon or just, you know, normal, cause she's not immortal.
Meanwhile, Zero can't let One do that because she has no idea if beings LITERALLY BORN FROM SAID DOOM FLOWER even have the capability of going against it's will when the tires meet the road,even if they themselves 100% believe they can. And without Zero, there would be nothing left that could forcibly kill One(Since even a Dragon needs an Intoner to let them kill them.)
It's a REALLY great setup for a final battle between two people with the same goals.
Half the time I'm reading Drakengard 3 synopsises my brain just starts positing the thought "... okay, but where's X during all of this, he's Zero's best friend"
I saw ads for it on Facebook, but I also 'liked' dragon quest on there so maybe that has something to do with it.
I imagine they didn't put too much effort into marketing because they know DQ doesn't do very well over here.
In other Japanese game news, I defeated the Gore Magala in MH4U! It was... surprisingly easier than I expected, although I did still get KOed once due to not being used to such an aggressive monster. I went pretty hard on it when I came back, though.
It was super cool, yeah. And I captured it. I didn't break the feelers though, mainly because I was focusing on the tried and true tactic of "Get all up on its butt"
i've always considered it kind of a shame that capturing is the optimal thing to do because carving is both viscerally satisfying and good decompression
i've always considered it kind of a shame that capturing is the optimal thing to do because carving is both viscerally satisfying and good decompression
Totally. Sometimes you just want to kill that asshole that gave you so much trouble.
It'd be nice if they had some sort of trade-off where you get one kind of materials from capturing and another for killing? That seems like it'd get irritating pretty quickly though.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
It's not always the optimal thing to do, but it relies on you knowing what you are looking for for materials and what gives the better "drop" rate
There are parts that can't be obtained via capture but can be carved or vice versa, and even for parts that are available via both, "drop" rates often vary greatly between capturing or carving, which can result in a better overall chance of getting specific parts by carving rather than capturing
General rule of thumb is that if you can carve the rare part from the body, you should almost always kill it
a lot of the changes i'd want would necessitate a change in loot structure
like i'd actually love if monsters had a huge number of breakables to the point where it's not remotely feasible to hit them all in a run, such that you get to have a more interested and focus targeting, but that's not great when there's only specific things you'd want anyway
Some monsters do indeed have certain parts that are more likely to be earned from carving than from capture. I recall carving off of a lot of Gigginoxes in MH3U to get frightful maws and such.
I usually try to go for the tail on most monsters, because there's almost always a tail-exclusive carve there. Plus it's pretty satisfying to see the Rathian whiff when it does its crazy 360 noscope tail slash.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited April 2017
We'll use Gore Magala as an example, because it was what sort of started this discussion.
In LR, body carves are 40% scale, 27% shell, 18% ripclaw, 10% wing, 5% plate
So you look at that, and you can immediately see that you're not going to get everything you want if you capture him every time, actually if you can regularly break his feelers and wings during the hunt, you are almost always better killing him and carving the body instead, that said if you know you are hunting feelers specifically, there is no reason not to capture him
I kind of miss the weird dick-looking guy from MH3U
even if I have essentially the same thing but lightning powered (and even more dick-looking) with Khezu
I know that Khezu came first, but I feel like Gigginox is the better version of that disgusting Leech-like "Wyvern" design. If only because it uses poison and eggs as weapons. It feels more thematically appropriate.
Oh, while I have some people who actually play Monhun here, I made a pretty decent Zamtrios charge blade, but it has -20% affinity. I know that means I have a 20% chance to do less damage, but should I roll with it for the extra overall damage I get, or just stick with the Kaiser Blade I've been using? I'm thinking I won't go for it, even though it looks fucking rad. A 1 in 5 chance to do less damage with every hit kinda sucks.
I just remembered Dragon Quest Heroes 2 comes out tomorrow. Was Square trying to keep this thing a secret? I've seen nothing on it.
There's a free demo up on PS4.
Had no idea. I'm getting it anyway. Really enjoyed the first one.
I thought the first was a total snore fest. So so boring and the summonable monsters never did their job so you constantly had to run back and babysit and re-summon.
Oh, while I have some people who actually play Monhun here, I made a pretty decent Zamtrios charge blade, but it has -20% affinity. I know that means I have a 20% chance to do less damage, but should I roll with it for the extra overall damage I get, or just stick with the Kaiser Blade I've been using? I'm thinking I won't go for it, even though it looks fucking rad. A 1 in 5 chance to do less damage with every hit kinda sucks.
-20% affinity is on average -5% damage, so you can do some quick and dirty math to figure out the "real" attack power of the weapon that way; it's not perfect and there will be times where big hits get -25% damage and your average ends up swinging a bit, but it's a decent way to figure out if an affinity weapon is worth using
On average, IIRC, the Zamtrios blade will do a tiny bit more damage
That said, I always personally preferred Impact phials to Element phials for CB
Oh, while I have some people who actually play Monhun here, I made a pretty decent Zamtrios charge blade, but it has -20% affinity. I know that means I have a 20% chance to do less damage, but should I roll with it for the extra overall damage I get, or just stick with the Kaiser Blade I've been using? I'm thinking I won't go for it, even though it looks fucking rad. A 1 in 5 chance to do less damage with every hit kinda sucks.
a negative critical is -25% damage, so -20% affinity means the average damage of the weapon is effectively (.2*.75=)15% lower than the listed damage. If that's still higher than the damage of your other weapon you should probably use the negative affinity one. (conversely, a positive affinity weapon increases effective damage by [affinity%]*1.25)
Certain armor skills like the unsheath critical one can also make it worth using very negative affinity weapons over plain or positive affinity weapons, if you can adjust your playstyle to make use of them. Unsheath critical with a big negative affinity greatsword is a classic combo because you naturally want to use mostly unsheath attacks with greatswords anyway just due to how greatswords slow you down so much unsheathed and how good their unsheath attacks are.
Oh, while I have some people who actually play Monhun here, I made a pretty decent Zamtrios charge blade, but it has -20% affinity. I know that means I have a 20% chance to do less damage, but should I roll with it for the extra overall damage I get, or just stick with the Kaiser Blade I've been using? I'm thinking I won't go for it, even though it looks fucking rad. A 1 in 5 chance to do less damage with every hit kinda sucks.
-20% affinity is on average -5% damage, so you can do some quick and dirty math to figure out the "real" attack power of the weapon that way; it's not perfect and there will be times where big hits get -25% damage and your average ends up swinging a bit, but it's a decent way to figure out if an affinity weapon is worth using
On average, IIRC, the Zamtrios blade will do a tiny bit more damage
That said, I always personally preferred Impact phials to Element phials for CB
Yeah, I think I may stick with the Kaiser Blade for the moment and pull out the Zamtrios when I need that element damage.
Posts
No, I get it, the game is supposed to make you feel icky. It does a real good job, because it feels icky! Zero's fun enough but she's also reprehensible, which is an interesting balance
DDO and DDO3 feel like they're way, way more aggressively unpleasant than Nier, what with Nier having way fewer child-murderers, cannibals, and rapists as PCs. Is Automata more on the Nier side or the DDO side?
Edit: Also with regards to previous discussion, Mikhail is a good, nice boy more or less on level with Emil
she has never had to face responsibility for her actions, is effectively immortal, and has people who grovel at the feet of intoners
she's an unchecked power-fantasy placed in a position that almost mandates she be heroic
Just maybe get him to put the knife down first.
It's fine
Also I forgot the joys of making a foreign account just so I could download region free stuff.
And yet having just that one game in the middle be completely unrelated to the series seems like a very Yoko Taro thing.
Actually
They only became famous after the 1-5 series came into being, and that was, obviously, after she tried to kill herself to stop the flower.
I'm not arguing that she isn't an unchecked power fantasy, because she is.
But she's not a bad person god being thing. She's basically a flawed Jesus.
Also yeah, all of the intoners are aspects of Zero's personality turned up to 11. Saying Zero is 5 is like holding Dwayne Johnson accountable for all of The Rock's actions, from a legal standpoint. Even moreso if they are literally seperate people.
On the people she unabashedly murders
I mean, you could argue that she should have just sat everyone down and just explained everything, but, hilariously the game addresses that too.
1. Try explaining to World Governments that the God-Beings who gave you everlasting peace are actually here to destroy the World.
2. That's LITERALLY A PLOT POINT in the true ending. One, after the prologue tries to figure out why Zero has gone Nuclear option, and eventually figures out that the Flower is the key to everything.
Not only that, she AGREES. with Zero's course of action. It's why she doesn't " rally the troops" so to speak like the prologue.
The entire summation of One's beef is that Zero didn't trust them enough to tell them, and thier final conflict boils down to two very good takes on the situation.
One can't just let Zero do her thing and let Zero kill her because, if anything, she's literally the Immortal patient zero(HEH), and no one, even Zero is unsure if a Dragon can actually kill her, and even then, if the Flower itself will even let her do it, since she's technically the root. The safe bet is for Zero to let One kill her, and then One can safely commit suicide, either by Dragon or just, you know, normal, cause she's not immortal.
Meanwhile, Zero can't let One do that because she has no idea if beings LITERALLY BORN FROM SAID DOOM FLOWER even have the capability of going against it's will when the tires meet the road,even if they themselves 100% believe they can. And without Zero, there would be nothing left that could forcibly kill One(Since even a Dragon needs an Intoner to let them kill them.)
It's a REALLY great setup for a final battle between two people with the same goals.
I imagine they didn't put too much effort into marketing because they know DQ doesn't do very well over here.
In other Japanese game news, I defeated the Gore Magala in MH4U! It was... surprisingly easier than I expected, although I did still get KOed once due to not being used to such an aggressive monster. I went pretty hard on it when I came back, though.
Totally. Sometimes you just want to kill that asshole that gave you so much trouble.
It'd be nice if they had some sort of trade-off where you get one kind of materials from capturing and another for killing? That seems like it'd get irritating pretty quickly though.
There are parts that can't be obtained via capture but can be carved or vice versa, and even for parts that are available via both, "drop" rates often vary greatly between capturing or carving, which can result in a better overall chance of getting specific parts by carving rather than capturing
General rule of thumb is that if you can carve the rare part from the body, you should almost always kill it
like i'd actually love if monsters had a huge number of breakables to the point where it's not remotely feasible to hit them all in a run, such that you get to have a more interested and focus targeting, but that's not great when there's only specific things you'd want anyway
There's a free demo up on PS4.
In LR, body carves are 40% scale, 27% shell, 18% ripclaw, 10% wing, 5% plate
capture rewards are 37% shell, 28% wing, 20% defiled scale, 15% feeler
So you look at that, and you can immediately see that you're not going to get everything you want if you capture him every time, actually if you can regularly break his feelers and wings during the hunt, you are almost always better killing him and carving the body instead, that said if you know you are hunting feelers specifically, there is no reason not to capture him
I kind of miss the weird dick-looking guy from MH3U
even if I have essentially the same thing but lightning powered (and even more dick-looking) with Khezu
Unfortunatly its also the point where they start bringing in the kinda boring legacy monsters
I know that Khezu came first, but I feel like Gigginox is the better version of that disgusting Leech-like "Wyvern" design. If only because it uses poison and eggs as weapons. It feels more thematically appropriate.
Had no idea. I'm getting it anyway. Really enjoyed the first one.
I thought the first was a total snore fest. So so boring and the summonable monsters never did their job so you constantly had to run back and babysit and re-summon.
I just prefer gigginox to khezu. But that's my bias talkin; MH3 was my intro to the series.
I like Khezu's design, but I hate fighting it
It's not even that difficult, really
It's just super tedious
Similarly, I like the design of a lot of the water monsters in 3U, but the actual fighting in water kinda sucked.
-20% affinity is on average -5% damage, so you can do some quick and dirty math to figure out the "real" attack power of the weapon that way; it's not perfect and there will be times where big hits get -25% damage and your average ends up swinging a bit, but it's a decent way to figure out if an affinity weapon is worth using
On average, IIRC, the Zamtrios blade will do a tiny bit more damage
That said, I always personally preferred Impact phials to Element phials for CB
a negative critical is -25% damage, so -20% affinity means the average damage of the weapon is effectively (.2*.75=)15% lower than the listed damage. If that's still higher than the damage of your other weapon you should probably use the negative affinity one. (conversely, a positive affinity weapon increases effective damage by [affinity%]*1.25)
Certain armor skills like the unsheath critical one can also make it worth using very negative affinity weapons over plain or positive affinity weapons, if you can adjust your playstyle to make use of them. Unsheath critical with a big negative affinity greatsword is a classic combo because you naturally want to use mostly unsheath attacks with greatswords anyway just due to how greatswords slow you down so much unsheathed and how good their unsheath attacks are.
Yeah, I think I may stick with the Kaiser Blade for the moment and pull out the Zamtrios when I need that element damage.
Khezu was the original tutorial about patience. Before then you just went ham.
Then later on he's basically the tutorial for using elemental damage to go ham and chew through his kind of inflated health because you get impatient.
is -20% affinity 15% lower average damage or 5% lower