But seriously, the weird sex things is a deflection from the real meat of that leak. You know, the actual treasonous activities?
Trump has been openly doing treasonous shit since forever. I have to look at "what will make my family actually take their faith from him" and treason isn't it. Underage sex now, that could do it.
oddly it doesn't even register with me considering his creepiness with ivanka as a teenager and all that
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
As for the news, well this changes nothing, except maybe if Cromey knew than he should go to jail.
He knew, but it hadn't been vetted yet. Which didn't stop him from talking about emails that they didn't even have a warrant to know the contents of yet.
@JusticeforPluto this thread came about because of hacking talk in a different thread. It's more a "Russia and the US" talk now I guess and is probably obsolete since it's all going to be in the trump thread as well.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Both were roughly an hour before the Buzzfeed article.
So what appears to have happened was that these documents were circulated among politicians and intelligence operatives earlier in the year, and (apparently as a failsafe*) the media back in october and december. What's making everyone jump on this right the hell now is that there was a new leak.
This new leak was very simple
and very direct:
(paraphrased)
"Those documents you got earlier are from a trusted and verified source using trusted and verified sources, and they made up part of the confidential briefing we gave both to President Obama and President Elect Trump"
With this information and confirmation of the sources now the rest of the news media has enough to back a story run using these documents. Even though they've had it for months, it's now effectively verified by the CIA. Also note that this is why almost every major news outlet is reporting on the existence of the documents rather than doing a direct rundown of the contents. They have enough to protect themselves in case someone comes after them because they were only reporting that these documents from reliable sources exist.
*This is basically the intelligence community version of showing everyone at the Blackhat Hacker Conference how to make ATMs spit out all their money complete with the code needed. It's the surefire way to make otherwise lazy people go "Oh shit, we need to deal with this NOW!".
RIP in Peace Barnaby Jack.
Forget Trump and Russia, medical implant people are the ones you don't want to cross.
True enough. The ATMs and car hacks and etc. mostly fall under the domain of stunt hacking and are actually pretty dang hard to replicate in the real world.
Both were roughly an hour before the Buzzfeed article.
So what appears to have happened was that these documents were circulated among politicians and intelligence operatives earlier in the year, and (apparently as a failsafe*) the media back in october and december. What's making everyone jump on this right the hell now is that there was a new leak.
This new leak was very simple
and very direct:
(paraphrased)
"Those documents you got earlier are from a trusted and verified source using trusted and verified sources, and they made up part of the confidential briefing we gave both to President Obama and President Elect Trump"
With this information and confirmation of the sources now the rest of the news media has enough to back a story run using these documents. Even though they've had it for months, it's now effectively verified by the CIA. Also note that this is why almost every major news outlet is reporting on the existence of the documents rather than doing a direct rundown of the contents. They have enough to protect themselves in case someone comes after them because they were only reporting that these documents from reliable sources exist.
*This is basically the intelligence community version of showing everyone at the Blackhat Hacker Conference how to make ATMs spit out all their money complete with the code needed. It's the surefire way to make otherwise lazy people go "Oh shit, we need to deal with this NOW!".
RIP in Peace Barnaby Jack.
Forget Trump and Russia, medical implant people are the ones you don't want to cross.
True enough. The ATMs and car hacks and etc. mostly fall under the domain of stunt hacking and are actually pretty dang hard to replicate in the real world.
Insulin pumps tho....
ehhh..
the Jeep car hack was pretty easy to replicate
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Both were roughly an hour before the Buzzfeed article.
So what appears to have happened was that these documents were circulated among politicians and intelligence operatives earlier in the year, and (apparently as a failsafe*) the media back in october and december. What's making everyone jump on this right the hell now is that there was a new leak.
This new leak was very simple
and very direct:
(paraphrased)
"Those documents you got earlier are from a trusted and verified source using trusted and verified sources, and they made up part of the confidential briefing we gave both to President Obama and President Elect Trump"
With this information and confirmation of the sources now the rest of the news media has enough to back a story run using these documents. Even though they've had it for months, it's now effectively verified by the CIA. Also note that this is why almost every major news outlet is reporting on the existence of the documents rather than doing a direct rundown of the contents. They have enough to protect themselves in case someone comes after them because they were only reporting that these documents from reliable sources exist.
*This is basically the intelligence community version of showing everyone at the Blackhat Hacker Conference how to make ATMs spit out all their money complete with the code needed. It's the surefire way to make otherwise lazy people go "Oh shit, we need to deal with this NOW!".
RIP in Peace Barnaby Jack.
Forget Trump and Russia, medical implant people are the ones you don't want to cross.
True enough. The ATMs and car hacks and etc. mostly fall under the domain of stunt hacking and are actually pretty dang hard to replicate in the real world.
Insulin pumps tho....
ehhh..
the Jeep car hack was pretty easy to replicate
That one was pretty bad, yeah. But it took over a year of research and there's a reason they picked that line of cars, they were the worst. I kinda don't have a tremendous amount of respect for those guys though, they have a history of going full disclosure without any regard for public safety, they're skilled af though.
I enjoyed it, but also recognize I'm just a worker bee scheduling scans in ways that don't break properties. My bosses go to the more interesting stuff, or at least so I'm told. Black hat this white hat that, I dunno, I just work here.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
I enjoyed it, but also recognize I'm just a worker bee scheduling scans in ways that don't break properties. My bosses go to the more interesting stuff, or at least so I'm told. Black hat this white hat that, I dunno, I just work here.
Ah, I meant which presentation. I didn't even know Qualys had their own conference, but their product is terrible so I don't pay all that much attention to them.
I enjoyed it, but also recognize I'm just a worker bee scheduling scans in ways that don't break properties. My bosses go to the more interesting stuff, or at least so I'm told. Black hat this white hat that, I dunno, I just work here.
Ah, I meant which presentation. I didn't even know Qualys had their own conference, but their product is terrible so I don't pay all that much attention to them.
hey, they reliably check my 3rd party pci verification box every year.
Another comforting thought. The idea of heading back to great power politics only makes sense if you believe that the world is about to enter an age of resource scarcity. While it's true there is always scarcity in some sense we have been in an age where it's easier for nations to produce on their own or cooperatively rather than compete.
Putin either thinks that the rest of the world is fed up with his shit* or that the age of cooperation is about to be over.
*and this would be fed up pre-Crimea.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Well he's not wrong if we don't start taking Climate Change and Ocean Acidification seriously.
Has anyone else read Karen Dawisha's book "Putin's Kleptocracy"
Holy shit he basically started the Chechen war in earnest by using the FSB to bomb his own citizens and blame it on Chechens, essentially an actual false flag, to further his ambition, he is a straight up Bond villain holy hell
Has anyone else read Karen Dawisha's book "Putin's Kleptocracy"
Holy shit he basically started the Chechen war in earnest by using the FSB to bomb his own citizens and blame it on Chechens, essentially an actual false flag, to further his ambition, he is a straight up Bond villain holy hell
Yes, the dictionary should have his profile next to the word.
Some former intelligence staffers are even more dubious. “Bluntly, it looks like an ex-field officer who’s got some interesting sources, but who has no idea how to compile raw HUMINT into usable intelligence,” says Matt Tait, a former staffer of Britain’s GCHQ intelligence agency. (“HUMINT” stands for “human intelligence,” information obtained from human sources, as opposed to SIGINT, or “signals intelligence,” gathered from intercepted communications.) With its sources redacted and none of the “confidence markings” intelligence agencies use to distinguish which claims are most credible, the document is tough to parse, Tait says.
“The key to usable HUMINT is distinguishing the real, highly placed sources from the bullshitting wannabes who pretend they’re highly placed sources by making shit up that fits the public facts,” says Tait. “In this case, the doc gives no indication that the company has done work to rigorously separate the two…and consequently it’s really hard to tell whether any of the info is actually true, or just a very exciting and expensively produced fan-fiction novel.”
My intuition is that when something feels like a silly Cold War conspiracy theory (John Birch Society claiming Eisenhower to be a Soviet agent), it most likely is not true. But who knows. If this actually is all a 4chan troll, it would not be terribly divergent from the general track record of US intelligence except in terms of the humor involved.
Replying to the final message to me on the other Russia thread, I am pretty sure I never said I supported the annexation of Crimea, but merely stated if Kissinger is telling Trump to let it stand and France is about to nix sanctions, it is something unlikely to ever be reversed.
Anti-Climacus on
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Oh hey, Matt Tait is the cybersecurity guy who set out to prove CrowdStrike wrong and ended up becoming convinced that Russia was behind the hacks.
That would make sense and suggest that the memo isn't "fake news" even if everything in it from its various sources should be taken with healthy skepticism.
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after it was published, the farcical nature of the “dossier” manifested. Not only was its author anonymous, but he was paid by Democrats (and, before that, by Trump’s GOP adversaries) to dig up dirt on Trump. Worse, he himself cited no evidence of any kind, but instead relied on a string of other anonymous people in Russia he claims told him these things. Worse still, the document was filled with amateur errors.
While many of the claims are inherently unverified, some can be confirmed. One such claim – that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen secretly traveled to Prague in August to meet with Russian officials – was strongly denied by Cohen, who insisted he had never been to Prague in his life (Prague is the same place that foreign intelligence officials claimed, in 2001, was the site of a non-existent meeting between Iraqi officials and 9/11 hijackers, which contributed to 70% of Americans believing, as late as the fall of 2003, that Saddam personally planned the 9/11 attack). This morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that “the FBI has found no evidence that [Cohen] traveled to the Czech Republic.”
When exactly did the Democrats become the more anti-Russia party? Only after Trump was nominated or before? For decades the two US parties always had opposite reputations and the Republicans were always seen as hard anti-Russia hawks and Democrats as supporting a softer approach but maybe I am glossing over some complexity. In the 2012 election there was a famous exchange in which Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the #1 threat to USA and reminded him "The cold war is over." That was not very long ago.
Anti-Climacus on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It was when Trump became the nominee.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
You might be glossing over a few things, yeah.
Starting roughly around Putin's (formerly unconstitutional?) third term as President.
(A-C's implying that it's weird that the Ds don't like Russia, guys, not that it's weird that the Rs do.)
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after it was published, the farcical nature of the “dossier” manifested. Not only was its author anonymous, but he was paid by Democrats (and, before that, by Trump’s GOP adversaries) to dig up dirt on Trump. Worse, he himself cited no evidence of any kind, but instead relied on a string of other anonymous people in Russia he claims told him these things. Worse still, the document was filled with amateur errors.
While many of the claims are inherently unverified, some can be confirmed. One such claim – that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen secretly traveled to Prague in August to meet with Russian officials – was strongly denied by Cohen, who insisted he had never been to Prague in his life (Prague is the same place that foreign intelligence officials claimed, in 2001, was the site of a non-existent meeting between Iraqi officials and 9/11 hijackers, which contributed to 70% of Americans believing, as late as the fall of 2003, that Saddam personally planned the 9/11 attack). This morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that “the FBI has found no evidence that [Cohen] traveled to the Czech Republic.”
When exactly did the Democrats become the more anti-Russia party? Only after Trump was nominated or before? For decades the two US parties always had opposite reputations and the Republicans were always seen as hard anti-Russia hawks and Democrats as supporting a softer approach but maybe I am glossing over some complexity. In the 2012 election there was a famous exchange in which Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the #1 threat to USA and reminded him "The cold war is over." That was not very long ago.
That would make sense and suggest that the memo isn't "fake news" even if everything in it from its various sources should be taken with healthy skepticism.
Yeah, fake news is some bullshit website ginned up to look like a news site, but with only made up articles with no source.
This might end up being wrong news, but that's different from fake.
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after it was published, the farcical nature of the “dossier” manifested. Not only was its author anonymous, but he was paid by Democrats (and, before that, by Trump’s GOP adversaries) to dig up dirt on Trump. Worse, he himself cited no evidence of any kind, but instead relied on a string of other anonymous people in Russia he claims told him these things. Worse still, the document was filled with amateur errors.
While many of the claims are inherently unverified, some can be confirmed. One such claim – that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen secretly traveled to Prague in August to meet with Russian officials – was strongly denied by Cohen, who insisted he had never been to Prague in his life (Prague is the same place that foreign intelligence officials claimed, in 2001, was the site of a non-existent meeting between Iraqi officials and 9/11 hijackers, which contributed to 70% of Americans believing, as late as the fall of 2003, that Saddam personally planned the 9/11 attack). This morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that “the FBI has found no evidence that [Cohen] traveled to the Czech Republic.”
When exactly did the Democrats become the more anti-Russia party? Only after Trump was nominated or before? For decades the two US parties always had opposite reputations and the Republicans were always seen as hard anti-Russia hawks and Democrats as supporting a softer approach but maybe I am glossing over some complexity. In the 2012 election there was a famous exchange in which Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the #1 threat to USA and reminded him "The cold war is over." That was not very long ago.
I am going to guess it was around March 2014
Democrats definitely dropped the call for kid gloves after Crimea, but the Pubs didn't complete the swap until Trump.
(Though plenty of them still didn't drink a full glass of the Russia-specific kool aid)
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Well he's not wrong if we don't start taking Climate Change and Ocean Acidification seriously.
Come to think of it, Russia would have a lot to gain from that. Resources become scarce, food is hard to grow around the world, and lookie here at all this Siberian land opening to settlement and development as the land warms. Destabilize the rest of the world and the best and brightest will flee to Siberia for sheer survival.
Well he's not wrong if we don't start taking Climate Change and Ocean Acidification seriously.
Come to think of it, Russia would have a lot to gain from that. Resources become scarce, food is hard to grow around the world, and lookie here at all this Siberian land opening to settlement and development as the land warms. Destabilize the rest of the world and the best and brightest will flee to Siberia for sheer survival.
.... huh.
Well that's certainly worse than my "convince Trump to nuke ISIS then fuck us in the UN" nightmare. Good job?
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Not even that level. The warming is happening. It's not just a matter of cutting some emissions or becoming emissions neutral - we would really need to start sinking carbon, fast, and get the PPM down below 350 ppm to reverse some of the warming effects already in place. There's barely political will to seriously cut emissions. As long as business continues as normal, even if there are minor attempts to go towards renewables, that Siberian land will open up with all their vast resources. Russia could become a superpower again as the rest of the world collapses just on that basis. Having no one around that is able to fight for that land would make it more likely, though; hence destabilizing the rest of the world.
Note: this would also apply to Canada, so Canadians: watch your backs, be very careful, and fight any Russian attempts to subvert your country too.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Americans got too focused on the short term. I want ____ and I want it NOW! Maximize profits this quarter and to hell with the rest of the year!
Trump is the apotheosis of all that is wrong with American capitalism and the US itself. He metaphorically made a deal with the devil to become president.
The thing about deals with the devil is you get exactly what you ask for, the precise wording of it, and then lose everything (the focus is always on losing one's soul, but that goes last, after all else is gone too). Only in the shortest term does anyone ever win in a deal with the devil. And I know I just used this simile in the Canada thread but it's relevant - it's like pissing on one's leg to feel warmer. Yes, it does 'work' very briefly, but the situation gets much worse very quickly on multiple levels after that.
Enough of the US went along with this devil's bargain that we're all going down with it.
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after it was published, the farcical nature of the “dossier” manifested. Not only was its author anonymous, but he was paid by Democrats (and, before that, by Trump’s GOP adversaries) to dig up dirt on Trump. Worse, he himself cited no evidence of any kind, but instead relied on a string of other anonymous people in Russia he claims told him these things. Worse still, the document was filled with amateur errors.
While many of the claims are inherently unverified, some can be confirmed. One such claim – that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen secretly traveled to Prague in August to meet with Russian officials – was strongly denied by Cohen, who insisted he had never been to Prague in his life (Prague is the same place that foreign intelligence officials claimed, in 2001, was the site of a non-existent meeting between Iraqi officials and 9/11 hijackers, which contributed to 70% of Americans believing, as late as the fall of 2003, that Saddam personally planned the 9/11 attack). This morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that “the FBI has found no evidence that [Cohen] traveled to the Czech Republic.”
When exactly did the Democrats become the more anti-Russia party? Only after Trump was nominated or before? For decades the two US parties always had opposite reputations and the Republicans were always seen as hard anti-Russia hawks and Democrats as supporting a softer approach but maybe I am glossing over some complexity. In the 2012 election there was a famous exchange in which Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the #1 threat to USA and reminded him "The cold war is over." That was not very long ago.
They became the anti-russian party when it became clear that putin wanted to try and remake the USSR whether the rest of the world wanted it or not.
Actively interfering with the american election has only cemented this.
edit: also regarding his secretary of states views on russia, they'd have a lot more weight if the sanctions hadn't aborted a half-trillion dollar oil deal for Exxon.
Posts
oddly it doesn't even register with me considering his creepiness with ivanka as a teenager and all that
He knew, but it hadn't been vetted yet. Which didn't stop him from talking about emails that they didn't even have a warrant to know the contents of yet.
For you, the day ElJeffe Bison'd your thread was the most important day of your life. But for him, it was Tuesday.
True enough. The ATMs and car hacks and etc. mostly fall under the domain of stunt hacking and are actually pretty dang hard to replicate in the real world.
Insulin pumps tho....
ehhh..
the Jeep car hack was pretty easy to replicate
That one was pretty bad, yeah. But it took over a year of research and there's a reason they picked that line of cars, they were the worst. I kinda don't have a tremendous amount of respect for those guys though, they have a history of going full disclosure without any regard for public safety, they're skilled af though.
@Giggles_Funsworth
Qualysguard's annual thing.
I enjoyed it, but also recognize I'm just a worker bee scheduling scans in ways that don't break properties. My bosses go to the more interesting stuff, or at least so I'm told. Black hat this white hat that, I dunno, I just work here.
Ah, I meant which presentation. I didn't even know Qualys had their own conference, but their product is terrible so I don't pay all that much attention to them.
hey, they reliably check my 3rd party pci verification box every year.
...
...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/11/russia-waging-information-war-in-sweden-study-finds
Like I said, it's all in that book
Putin either thinks that the rest of the world is fed up with his shit* or that the age of cooperation is about to be over.
*and this would be fed up pre-Crimea.
https://medium.com/@thegrugq/the-russian-way-of-cyberwar-edb9d52b4876#.lds2uar62
Holy shit he basically started the Chechen war in earnest by using the FSB to bomb his own citizens and blame it on Chechens, essentially an actual false flag, to further his ambition, he is a straight up Bond villain holy hell
Yes, the dictionary should have his profile next to the word.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/10/4chan-claims-they-invented-the-trump-golden-showers-story.html
My intuition is that when something feels like a silly Cold War conspiracy theory (John Birch Society claiming Eisenhower to be a Soviet agent), it most likely is not true. But who knows. If this actually is all a 4chan troll, it would not be terribly divergent from the general track record of US intelligence except in terms of the humor involved.
Replying to the final message to me on the other Russia thread, I am pretty sure I never said I supported the annexation of Crimea, but merely stated if Kissinger is telling Trump to let it stand and France is about to nix sanctions, it is something unlikely to ever be reversed.
What a coincidence.
Ahhhhh hahahaha ha ha ahhhhh hahahaha
Bull shit
Pure bullshit
That would make sense and suggest that the memo isn't "fake news" even if everything in it from its various sources should be taken with healthy skepticism.
Trump's nominee for Secretary of State speaks about Russia as a threat at confirmation hearings
Who do you believe, Donald or Donald?
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
When exactly did the Democrats become the more anti-Russia party? Only after Trump was nominated or before? For decades the two US parties always had opposite reputations and the Republicans were always seen as hard anti-Russia hawks and Democrats as supporting a softer approach but maybe I am glossing over some complexity. In the 2012 election there was a famous exchange in which Obama mocked Romney for calling Russia the #1 threat to USA and reminded him "The cold war is over." That was not very long ago.
Starting roughly around Putin's (formerly unconstitutional?) third term as President.
(A-C's implying that it's weird that the Ds don't like Russia, guys, not that it's weird that the Rs do.)
I am going to guess it was around March 2014
Yeah, fake news is some bullshit website ginned up to look like a news site, but with only made up articles with no source.
This might end up being wrong news, but that's different from fake.
Democrats definitely dropped the call for kid gloves after Crimea, but the Pubs didn't complete the swap until Trump.
(Though plenty of them still didn't drink a full glass of the Russia-specific kool aid)
Come to think of it, Russia would have a lot to gain from that. Resources become scarce, food is hard to grow around the world, and lookie here at all this Siberian land opening to settlement and development as the land warms. Destabilize the rest of the world and the best and brightest will flee to Siberia for sheer survival.
.... huh.
Well that's certainly worse than my "convince Trump to nuke ISIS then fuck us in the UN" nightmare. Good job?
Note: this would also apply to Canada, so Canadians: watch your backs, be very careful, and fight any Russian attempts to subvert your country too.
Trump is the apotheosis of all that is wrong with American capitalism and the US itself. He metaphorically made a deal with the devil to become president.
The thing about deals with the devil is you get exactly what you ask for, the precise wording of it, and then lose everything (the focus is always on losing one's soul, but that goes last, after all else is gone too). Only in the shortest term does anyone ever win in a deal with the devil. And I know I just used this simile in the Canada thread but it's relevant - it's like pissing on one's leg to feel warmer. Yes, it does 'work' very briefly, but the situation gets much worse very quickly on multiple levels after that.
Enough of the US went along with this devil's bargain that we're all going down with it.
They became the anti-russian party when it became clear that putin wanted to try and remake the USSR whether the rest of the world wanted it or not.
Actively interfering with the american election has only cemented this.
edit: also regarding his secretary of states views on russia, they'd have a lot more weight if the sanctions hadn't aborted a half-trillion dollar oil deal for Exxon.