Better get a babysitter cause we've got two tickets to the [GUN] show...

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    This is not a gun control thread.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    DocGvzbgulLabelmatt has a problemGiantGeek2020
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Would this be the thread to discuss body armor? It's not guns, but it's certainly gun-adjacent.

    gRAhjXV.gif
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited August 17
    Would this be the thread to discuss body armor? It's not guns, but it's certainly gun-adjacent.

    I'm interested and I've done a fair bit of research towards a purchase, looking for kit for IDPA and 2 gun competition

    Hesco L210s seem to be the sweet spot right now. Level III Special Threat - you give up 7.62x51 m80 ball protection of level III but you get protection against m855. AFAIK it will stop m80 but NIJ will not certify since it doesn't meet backface deformation specs.

    Don't buy AR500 steel.

    I was going to do something like a Spiritus slick and clip a Haley D3CRx to it but Ferro/Spuiritus is all impossible to order hypebeast gear right now, so I'll probably pick up a Crye JPC 2.0.

    /r/qualitytacticalgear for info and /r/gundeals for shopping

    SummaryJudgment on
    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
    NSDFRand
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited August 18
    Task & Purpose actually frontpaged an advertisement psuedo-article by AR500 recently and I was amused and disappointed, especially considering they've done some pretty cool coverage on the Army and DARPA making new ceramic composites.

    SummaryJudgment on
    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Task & Purpose actually frontpaged an advertisement psuedo-article by AR500 recently and I was amused and disappointed, especially considering they've done some pretty cool coverage on the Army and DARPA making new ceramic composites.

    Everything I’ve heard about AR500 ceramics is supposed to be decent. It’s the steel that’s no good unless you’re trying to armor up a vehicle

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Would this be the thread to discuss body armor? It's not guns, but it's certainly gun-adjacent.

    I'm interested and I've done a fair bit of research towards a purchase, looking for kit for IDPA and 2 gun competition

    Hesco L210s seem to be the sweet spot right now. Level III Special Threat - you give up 7.62x51 m80 ball protection of level III but you get protection against m855. AFAIK it will stop m80 but NIJ will not certify since it doesn't meet backface deformation specs.

    Don't buy AR500 steel.

    I was going to do something like a Spiritus slick and clip a Haley D3CRx to it but Ferro/Spuiritus is all impossible to order hypebeast gear right now, so I'll probably pick up a Crye JPC 2.0.

    /r/qualitytacticalgear for info and /r/gundeals for shopping

    Also, BAO. They sell rebranded gear from Hesco and RMA, among others. They make it pretty easy to figure out which is which, sometimes their model numbers are the same.

    SummaryJudgment
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    Task & Purpose actually frontpaged an advertisement psuedo-article by AR500 recently and I was amused and disappointed, especially considering they've done some pretty cool coverage on the Army and DARPA making new ceramic composites.

    Everything I’ve heard about AR500 ceramics is supposed to be decent. It’s the steel that’s no good unless you’re trying to armor up a vehicle

    the ceramics are rebadged RMA iirc

    I believe they're the only NIJ rated stuff they have, or it was at one time

    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 18
    Just skip AR500 as a company, IMO.

    Doc on
    Dead LegendSummaryJudgment
  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    I agree with that.

    I was going to pick up a set from them so I could use it as weight vest training since the rona has all fitness companies sold out of everything

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    This is interesting - a 4" M&P Shield: https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-mp-40-shield-m20-4-barrel

    I was looking at the 4.25" M&P 2.0 Performance Center (https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-mp-40-m20-425-barrel-pro-series) and was weighing my options about having it as a CPL pistol. It's only .25 of an inch longer than a M&P 2.0 Compact (which is *identical* dimensionally to a Glock 19). If you step down in size, they make standard M&P 2.0 models 4" or a 3.6", but they don't offer the Performance Center work on the trigger (which is still an improvement over the bad M&P 1.0 trigger.) and the factory fiber sights.

    Maybe the 4" shield as a compromise? Thinner, still have the 4" sight radius, and it comes with a +1 mag and flush fit, and I think the +1 puts it at the same height as a G19.

    I was about to say that my only gripe is I don't care that step-down on the end of the slide, but then I noticed it doesn't have a pic rail for a light (?!) Fuck.

    SummaryJudgment on
    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    I was given an old Revelation Model 150 repeater as a gift recently. They were a line of Marlin Model 49s produced for Western Auto Supply Company from 1968 to 1970. According to the serial I have a model made in 68.

    The previous owner while enjoying plinking with .22s and air rifles is not well versed in the technical skills of disassembly and maintenance (I ran into issues previously trying to get his Chinese SKS in working order, fouled up from cosmoline he didn't clean out when he bought it almost 30 years ago and shot it). So it was extremely fouled up and prone to jamming. Specifically, the feed lips (built into the trigger pack because it is a cylindrical magazine) were so gunked up with carbon and dirt that the case of the cartridge would experience too much friction for the bolt to pull it up all the way into position. I disassembled and cleaned it, after more than 20 years of sitting in a closet, and it is feeding perfectly.

    It's a nice little rimfire repeater that has a bit of a patina on it.

    SummaryJudgmentDocLabelDavid WalgasGiantGeek2020
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Sounds like a fun piece.

    I wish someone had told me 15 years ago that a bolt .22 would be the most fun to shoot gun that I'd own.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    I've got a 3D printer that prints carbon fiber inlaid heavy duty polymer and I want to print like seven sheets of it, glue them together, and take them out to a range to see what happens.

    I'm Batman.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
    DocSpecial KGvzbgulDonovan PuppyfuckerPewPewBangBangGiantGeek2020
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Nice. If I had to bet, depending on how you laminate it (like epoxy + some sort of durable weave in between), you might stop 9mm, but a rifle round cuts through it like it's not even there.

    Special K
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    For you guys or gals that carry concealed, how did you find a holster / body position setup that worked for you?

    I feel like there's no good way to distinguish holsters compared to firearms (x inches long, y inches high, z inches wide, v ounces heavy)

    And you can't hardly rent them, so...Just Google for reviews and don't buy anything too cheap?

    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    For you guys or gals that carry concealed, how did you find a holster / body position setup that worked for you?

    I feel like there's no good way to distinguish holsters compared to firearms (x inches long, y inches high, z inches wide, v ounces heavy)

    And you can't hardly rent them, so...Just Google for reviews and don't buy anything too cheap?

    I have a Crossbreed SuperTuck. It's pretty great. Leather against you, kydex outside. Great retention and comfort. That's for a full sized frame, though. They have a few other models.

    shorttimin
  • Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    For you guys or gals that carry concealed, how did you find a holster / body position setup that worked for you?

    I feel like there's no good way to distinguish holsters compared to firearms (x inches long, y inches high, z inches wide, v ounces heavy)

    And you can't hardly rent them, so...Just Google for reviews and don't buy anything too cheap?

    There's a reason everyone who carries concealed has a box of holsters. Because there's really no other way to go about it than buy a holster and see how it works. I personally went through 3 inside the waistband holster before deciding it wasn't for me and tried outside the waistband, which works way better for me.

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    NSDFRand[Paragon]
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    It gets even worse when you have different holsters based on where you are going and what clothes are are wearing.

    gRAhjXV.gif
    [Paragon]
  • David WalgasDavid Walgas Registered User regular
    I’ve used Dara holsters before, they do the job. Not overly uncomfortable in a crotch carry.

  • [Paragon][Paragon] I'm a real doctor, for pretend! Registered User regular
    You really do have to just kind of find what fits with what you're carrying, your body type and where you want to carry. I've had great success with Black Arch holsters for my CZs. Their mesh backed ones are great in the summer, my fat ass does not sweat as nearly as much where the holster is with that. I'm up to like 3-4 different gun models with them. I had good luck with White hat holsters and their microtuck line for my shield as well.

  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited August 25
    Thanks, all

    Bunch of us here are looking to take the CPL. My brother is also looking - apparently they know a LEO who will conduct on a friend's rural property if they get a certain # of people - and the complication for him is he's only got use of one arm.

    So, wheelgun. LCR for pocket carry. I'd like to steer him to something longer than a 1.8" barrel snubbie as an alternative.

    SummaryJudgment on
    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    As far as recommending arms to someone who has their mind set: sometimes it isn't worth it and like anything being too forceful isn't going to convince them of anything. This is double for family and SO relationships.

    I think a good way is to show people with some authoritative experience and qualification that you can reference making recommendations. E.g. Ken Hackathorn has a video on the Wilson Combat channel in which he demonstrates what he calls the "Wizard Drill" and in that video he says frankly that pocket guns are great guns for people who won't have to use them. He has decades of time under arms in the military, as an LEO, and as a trainer for both government and private citizens.

    Personally I really like pocket guns and small handguns but I do see his point and normally I don't carry anything smaller than a Glock 19, and more often a full size CZ75B clone or government size 1911.

    SummaryJudgment
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    As far as recommending arms to someone who has their mind set: sometimes it isn't worth it and like anything being too forceful isn't going to convince them of anything. This is double for family and SO relationships.

    I think a good way is to show people with some authoritative experience and qualification that you can reference making recommendations. E.g. Ken Hackathorn has a video on the Wilson Combat channel in which he demonstrates what he calls the "Wizard Drill" and in that video he says frankly that pocket guns are great guns for people who won't have to use them. He has decades of time under arms in the military, as an LEO, and as a trainer for both government and private citizens.

    Personally I really like pocket guns and small handguns but I do see his point and normally I don't carry anything smaller than a Glock 19, and more often a full size CZ75B clone or government size 1911.

    Oh, I misspoke - he's less familiar than I am and so he's asked for suggestions. I just meant to say if pocket carry is what he wants, the LCR seems to be what i hear most commonly.

    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    The LCR is very popular. I would personally lean towards a Glock 26 because you have some parts and (I think importantly) magazine commonality with other 9mm Glocks. So if I want to carry a 15, 17, or 33 round magazine in addition to the 10 or 12 they will all fit. I'm also a big guy so a Glock 26 is reasonable for me.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Summary’s brother has a disabled arm, probably the hesitation in recommending an auto.

    Pocket carry snub, the S&W 642 performance center has a few advantages I see for somebody like your brother: smoother trigger pull, and it’s cut for moon clips so it would make range outings a little simpler to plug n play for reloads.

    Alternatively, I wouldn’t be afraid to look at 2.5-3” barrel offerings if OWB with a long tail shirt was possible. Ruger SP101 comes to mind, or a S&W 60 (5shot) / 66 (6shot).

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
    SummaryJudgmentNSDFRand
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Only one fully-functional arm?

    Perhaps they could open-carry an AA-12. Front single point sling, cocked and locked, that way all they have to do is point, flick off safe, and defend themselves and their property.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Only one fully-functional arm?

    Perhaps they could open-carry an AA-12. Front single point sling, cocked and locked, that way all they have to do is point, flick off safe, and defend themselves and their property.

    Awfully generous of you to make fun of a disabled individual and mock how they should be able to exercise their right to self-defense, rather than contribute something useful.

    Just know going forward that I have more regard for the shit I scrape out of my boot heel than your statist ways.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
    DocNSDFRandSteel AngelDavid Walgasshorttimin
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Gentlemen, gentlemen. Decorum please.

    I think we can all come together under a common consensus that you're all butthorns.

    SmokeStacksDavid Walgas
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited August 25
    NSDFRand was warned for this.
    Only one fully-functional arm?

    Perhaps they could open-carry an AA-12. Front single point sling, cocked and locked, that way all they have to do is point, flick off safe, and defend themselves and their property.

    I suppose he could just prostrate himself and spread his cheeks as you would do.

    Tube on
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Gentlemen, gentlemen. Decorum please.

    I think we can all come together under a common consensus that you're all butthorns.

    If we had a shooting club, it would have to be named the PA Butthorns.

    What's the thread concensus on suppressors for home defense? I know the Warrior Poet guy says he doesn't run them (his reasoning being that if there are multiple people breaking into his home and he shoots one of them he wants the rest of them to hear it and run away), but it seems like the odds of having to defend yourself during a breakin are low enough as it is, let alone a fullblown home invasion with multiple perpetrators in different rooms.

    Then again, I'm not a notable youtube celebrity, so my odds are probably a little different.

    gRAhjXV.gif
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Gentlemen, gentlemen. Decorum please.

    I think we can all come together under a common consensus that you're all butthorns.

    If we had a shooting club, it would have to be named the PA Butthorns.

    What's the thread concensus on suppressors for home defense? I know the Warrior Poet guy says he doesn't run them (his reasoning being that if there are multiple people breaking into his home and he shoots one of them he wants the rest of them to hear it and run away), but it seems like the odds of having to defend yourself during a breakin are low enough as it is, let alone a fullblown home invasion with multiple perpetrators in different rooms.

    Then again, I'm not a notable youtube celebrity, so my odds are probably a little different.

    Odds are in a quiet house at night the action cycling is still going to be very loud and audible, just not deafeningly loud as you’d get without the suppressor.

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    NSDFRandSpecial K
  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    You’re still talking loud. 130dB loud, unless you have figured out a load that is perfectly subsonic and somehow registers quieter than 110dB, in an enclosed structure. A jackhammer is 110dB and an ambulance siren is 120dB.

    Wouldn’t want something I paid $200 in tax plus $500-$1000 in suppressor (and average 12 month wait) plus $500-$1500 in gun getting scooped up the po-po if used in self-defense.

    I think John from WPS is just fishing for attention with that statement.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    Yeah I mean honestly I love the idea of eventually getting a supressor for an HD gun, but the thought of having it locked up in evidence for who knows how long and also wondering if I'll ever get it back makes me hesitate. I keep a pair of simple shooter muffs near my HD gun under my nightstand, but honestly I don't know how well I'd remember to put them on during an adrenaline dump of a home defense situation.

  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    If I'm ever in a situation where I'm firing in my own home, I seriously doubt that I'd be worrying about ear protection.

  • ErlkönigErlkönig Registered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    If I'm ever in a situation where I'm firing in my own home, I seriously doubt that I'd be worrying about ear protection.

    After the first shot, you will. Without hearing protection of some kind, anything more than a .22LR going off 3 feet in front of your head is going to be incredibly disorienting.

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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Only one fully-functional arm?

    Perhaps they could open-carry an AA-12. Front single point sling, cocked and locked, that way all they have to do is point, flick off safe, and defend themselves and their property.

    Awfully generous of you to make fun of a disabled individual and mock how they should be able to exercise their right to self-defense, rather than contribute something useful.

    Just know going forward that I have more regard for the shit I scrape out of my boot heel than your statist ways.

    You're going to need to point out where I did anything you claim I did.

    AA-12s have very low recoil for their stopping power, hence grouping shots one-handed is going to be easier than with a "whippy" subcompact pistol. And with a drum magazine the person in question will not need to try to reload (one-handed!) during a typical American home invasion or drive-by shootout.

    I'm the only one here making sensible suggestions.

    Regarding 'statism', this isn't a politics thread, but if you think I'm a 'statist' you don't know anything about me, DL. It's awfully difficult to both want the abolition of countries and currencies and support the existence of states, comrade.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Knock it off, all of you.

    GiantGeek2020
  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Gentlemen, gentlemen. Decorum please.

    I think we can all come together under a common consensus that you're all butthorns.

    If we had a shooting club, it would have to be named the PA Butthorns.

    What's the thread concensus on suppressors for home defense? I know the Warrior Poet guy says he doesn't run them (his reasoning being that if there are multiple people breaking into his home and he shoots one of them he wants the rest of them to hear it and run away), but it seems like the odds of having to defend yourself during a breakin are low enough as it is, let alone a fullblown home invasion with multiple perpetrators in different rooms.

    Then again, I'm not a notable youtube celebrity, so my odds are probably a little different.

    I find the argument that you don't want an NFA item tied up in an investigation more compelling than the "scaring off an assailant" argument. I get it and I think John is more than capable of deciding for himself what is best for his situation especially considering his background.

    But I think it edges too close to "just rack the pump to scare them" for myself. To me the door being locked is a reasonable warning against intrusion.

    DocGvzbgul
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    Special K wrote: »
    If I'm ever in a situation where I'm firing in my own home, I seriously doubt that I'd be worrying about ear protection.

    After the first shot, you will. Without hearing protection of some kind, anything more than a .22LR going off 3 feet in front of your head is going to be incredibly disorienting.

    Even a .22LR pistol is loud enough to get the ears ringing.

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  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Special K wrote: »
    Gentlemen, gentlemen. Decorum please.

    I think we can all come together under a common consensus that you're all butthorns.

    If we had a shooting club, it would have to be named the PA Butthorns.

    What's the thread concensus on suppressors for home defense? I know the Warrior Poet guy says he doesn't run them (his reasoning being that if there are multiple people breaking into his home and he shoots one of them he wants the rest of them to hear it and run away), but it seems like the odds of having to defend yourself during a breakin are low enough as it is, let alone a fullblown home invasion with multiple perpetrators in different rooms.

    Then again, I'm not a notable youtube celebrity, so my odds are probably a little different.

    It's still pretty loud and identifiable as a gunshot indoors. Just think loud like "clapping two 2x4s flat together really hard," not "immediate and permanent hearing damage." Even just the supersonic crack of most normal (other than 45 ACP) ammo is not really all that hearing-safe. Outside the sound falls off a lot on subsonic rounds, though.

    So that's not really a good reason to go one way or the other on it. I'd say it seems bunk in the same way people say they use a pump action for home defense because the sound of racking it will scare people off. Maybe, but don't give away some advantage you can otherwise gain, hoping that it works.

    I find them useful on pistols for sound and flash, but a not widely considered advantage is the inertia dampening effect of a ~1lb weight hanging on the end of the barrel. It's harder to flinch off target and easier to get back on if you're under stress or a newer shooter.

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