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I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
+2
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Alright, we're on page 2. How quickly and terribly will Trump ruin this and would there be any recourse to stop him?
I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
One of the great ironies here is that unless Sweden gave into American pressure he would have been released years ago, but he's still in self imposed imprisonment in the embassy.
I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
There is that little detail of becoming a convicted rapist in the process. Would be harmful for the brand.
I'm not sure I can accurately comment on the leaks because I cannot for the life of me keep the Manning and Snowden leaks straight
That said I'm pretty happy Manning got pardoned because "Have fun in solitary!" isn't punishment it's fucking torture and we know it's torture and yet
Manning was US gunships wantonly slaughtering people
Snowden was NSA domestic surveillance
I was generally cool with both leaks, but Manning has already been punished for years, whereas Snowden fled to Russia (arguably a reasonable action under the circumstances, but hardly heroic). I'm glad Obama did this.
My main issue is with the way the two leaks were executed. Snowden, at least according to him, meticulously gathered the data he wanted to leak, leaked it to actual journalists, and left out things that he thought could get people killed or do actual harm to important legitimate intelligence operations. Manning basically gave Wikileaks as much as she could get her hands on. I'm glad Manning's sentence was commuted, but I've always felt that pardoning Snowden is an easier argument to make. And the whole "He never stood trial" thing should not matter, lots of people have been preemptively pardoned without standing trial.
Snowden has said in interviews he didn't know everything he was handing over to journalists and governments. Dude did a smash and grab and should answer for it.
+18
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
One of the great ironies here is that unless Sweden gave into American pressure he would have been released years ago, but he's still in self imposed imprisonment in the embassy.
Another irony is that he might not be convicted of anything. I'm not sure Swedish rape laws cover surprise unprotected sex beyond it needing to be investigated to it's conclusion. Accused rapist are frequently let go or given a slap on the wrist punishment because the victim wasn't saying no loudly enough type reasons.
Alright, we're on page 2. How quickly and terribly will Trump ruin this and would there be any recourse to stop him?
Trump can't do anything. He can't undo a commutation, and Manning can't be tried again. Manning's free as of May.
So basically, nothing legally. Thanks.
It would also be a very bad precedent if he went after her. If for example Trump or someone on his team needed a pardon for the shit they have done or are going to do in the next 4 years.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
0
JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
One of the great ironies here is that unless Sweden gave into American pressure he would have been released years ago, but he's still in self imposed imprisonment in the embassy.
Another irony is that he might not be convicted of anything. I'm not sure Swedish rape laws cover surprise unprotected sex beyond it needing to be investigated to it's conclusion. Accused rapist are frequently let go or given a slap on the wrist punishment because the victim wasn't saying no loudly enough type reasons.
yeah I don't know the exact shit he is accused of, but in general convictions on these types of crimes are low anyway.
though shit is not helped by the failure of the prosecution to work around his residency in an embassy
+1
JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Snowden wasn't fleeing TO Russia, he was fleeing to Ecuador and was going through Russia.
Part of my brain wants to say him getting stuck in Russia was deliberate timing, because look how conveniently it discredited him and got everyone to think he was intending to end up there. Realistically it was probably coincidence, but it seems trivial if the federal government wanted to time it that way.
Well, not that he hasn't shown himself to be an idiot since then. With good intentions, but still an idiot.
Basically, he got stuck in Russia because that's tbe only place he could've gone once China got what they wanted and had him gone.
He got stuck in Russia because his passport was revoked before he got on the next plane. He was stuck in the airport for a couple weeks.
that and he (rightfully) worried about being blocked from travelling to another country in latin america for asylum.
0
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Alright, we're on page 2. How quickly and terribly will Trump ruin this and would there be any recourse to stop him?
Trump can't do anything. He can't undo a commutation, and Manning can't be tried again. Manning's free as of May.
So basically, nothing legally. Thanks.
It would also be a very bad precedent if he went after her. If for example Trump or someone on his team needed a pardon for the shit they have done or are going to do in the next 4 years.
I doubt anyone with power or influence in the GOP is giving the slightest bit of thought to precedent or consequences past the end of the quarter. However it occurs to me that setting her release a few months away means that she might end up being forgotten due to the aforementioned "not thinking past the end of the quarter" and Trump's lack of attention span so nothing stupid will be done to prevent the release.
Snowden was already being corralled by the Russians while he was still in Hong Kong as well. They had him staying at the Russian consulate and he was flown to Russia on the Russian state airline. If he thought he was going anywhere but Russia he was a fool.
I want to know if Assange is planning on dying of old age in the embassy. Wouldn't it be worth a few years in a cushy Swedish prison to be able to feel fresh air on his face again before he dies? Swedish prisons are pretty much the most merciful in the world. And I doubt that President Trump will press too hard for him to be prosecuted for crimes he committed against a Democratic administration, especially after he helped Trump out so kindly in the election.
There is that little detail of becoming a convicted rapist in the process. Would be harmful for the brand.
Also whatever else *cough*Putin*cough*puppet*cough* might come up.
Snowden was already being corralled by the Russians while he was still in Hong Kong as well. They had him staying at the Russian consulate and he was flown to Russia on the Russian state airline. If he thought he was going anywhere but Russia he was a fool.
The only debate is when Snowden became a useful idiot for Russia - only after Assange/Harrison of Wikileaks advised him to seek Russian protection or before he embarked on the entire process. I lean towards the latter given the inconsistencies in why Snowden went to HK in the first place and that Russia openly cooperating with him would not have been a snap decision.
@Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
Ignoring the solitary confinement issue there is a deterrent argument. Though I think the the original sentence was "probation at 8 years" and since probation isn't typically seen as punitive it's hard to make the argument.
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
IIRC Manning was only in solitary due to repeated suicide attempts, not because it was court-ordered.
The bolded should never come into clemency decisions. If so then Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames should be out the moment they were convicted, since they'll never be a part of the intelligence community again. Like Guomindong says there's the deterrence factor to consider as well- if your high-minded ideals lead you to exposing massive amounts of U.S. secrets, then maybe you'll think twice after seeing that the last guy who did it was either in prison for most of their adult life or had to self-exile.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
The other important different between Snowden and Manning is IIRC Snowden had a much higher level of clearance than Manning. Manning only had "Secret" level clearance whereas Snowden had "Top Secret" clearance, thus anything he leaked would automatically be much more serious by the government's own metrics.
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
IIRC Manning was only in solitary due to repeated suicide attempts, not because it was court-ordered.
The bolded should never come into clemency decisions. If so then Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames should be out the moment they were convicted, since they'll never be a part of the intelligence community again. Like Guomindong says there's the deterrence factor to consider as well- if your high-minded ideals lead you to exposing massive amounts of U.S. secrets, then maybe you'll think twice after seeing that the last guy who did it was either in prison for most of their adult life or had to self-exile.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
Six years in prison is nothing now?
If anything, this shows potential whistleblowers that you'd better be in a country unfriendly to the US government when you leak secrets, because Snowden fared best due to fleeing fastest.
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
IIRC Manning was only in solitary due to repeated suicide attempts, not because it was court-ordered.
The bolded should never come into clemency decisions. If so then Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames should be out the moment they were convicted, since they'll never be a part of the intelligence community again. Like Guomindong says there's the deterrence factor to consider as well- if your high-minded ideals lead you to exposing massive amounts of U.S. secrets, then maybe you'll think twice after seeing that the last guy who did it was either in prison for most of their adult life or had to self-exile.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
Solitary confinement is not the solution for suicidal prisoners.
The bolded absolutely be considered as one of many factors when it comes to clemency. Eight years in, again unnecessary, solitary confinement isn't some light sentence. The deterrent to others is already fulfilled.
She did not get to enjoy being "lavished." She was in solitary confinement. At best she got to hear how much some people supported her. She also probably got told about the many other parts that hate her and send her regular death treats.
Maybe the wonders of weekly visits from your lawyer telling you some sections of the internet support you, others want you dead, and you're living in an isolated box for eight years tempts you. But I contend most people would not consider that an opportunity worth breaking the law for.
Fun Fact: She didn't spend 8 years in solitary. She was placed in solitary for 14 days(7 suspended) after her suicide attempt. And was in 'defacto solitary' whatever that means for 9 months pre-trial.
Manning spent three years behind bars awaiting trial. She says nine months of that time were spent in de facto solitary confinement at a military base in Virginia — no personal items allowed. "I had to ask for permission to use a toothbrush, toothpaste, and toilet paper, and when I was done, I had to give these items back," she says. "I only got through it through humor. I just laughed at the entire situation. It became such a comical joke to me after a while. Unfortunately, you can't reason with absurdity. It's hard to lose your sanity when you're living in such an insane situation." After a public outcry, Manning was moved to Fort Leavenworth.
Today, Manning has her own cell with "two tall vertical windows that face the sun." She can see "trees and hills and blue sky and all the things beyond the buildings and razor wire," she says. "My mind barely acknowledges the buildings anymore." She spends much of her time in the prison library, where she types up homework for a degree in political science. She works out in the gym and has a job in a woodworking shop, which she describes as "very fun, actually."
She says she hasn't faced harassment from inmates and has found some confidantes. "The guys here are adults ... There are some very smart and sophisticated people in prisons all across America — I don't think television and the media give them credit," she says. She gets visits from friends and relatives, including regular visits from her sister. The prison forbids visits from people Manning did not know prior to her confinement.
She receives letters from transgender people around the world. "I am always flattered that they feel that I have inspired them in some way," she says. "But honestly, I think it's the other way around: They inspire me more than I think they might realize." Birthday cards have reportedly arrived from designer Vivienne Westwood, REM's Michael Stipe, and Edward Snowden, who famously leaked documents from the National Security Agency and has claimed asylum in Russia
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
IIRC Manning was only in solitary due to repeated suicide attempts, not because it was court-ordered.
The bolded should never come into clemency decisions. If so then Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames should be out the moment they were convicted, since they'll never be a part of the intelligence community again. Like Guomindong says there's the deterrence factor to consider as well- if your high-minded ideals lead you to exposing massive amounts of U.S. secrets, then maybe you'll think twice after seeing that the last guy who did it was either in prison for most of their adult life or had to self-exile.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
How good long prison sentences are at deterring crime is debatable.
Fun Fact: She didn't spend 8 years in solitary. She was placed in solitary for 14 days(7 suspended) after her suicide attempt. And was in 'defacto solitary' whatever that means for 9 months pre-trial.
Manning spent three years behind bars awaiting trial. She says nine months of that time were spent in de facto solitary confinement at a military base in Virginia — no personal items allowed. "I had to ask for permission to use a toothbrush, toothpaste, and toilet paper, and when I was done, I had to give these items back," she says. "I only got through it through humor. I just laughed at the entire situation. It became such a comical joke to me after a while. Unfortunately, you can't reason with absurdity. It's hard to lose your sanity when you're living in such an insane situation." After a public outcry, Manning was moved to Fort Leavenworth.
Today, Manning has her own cell with "two tall vertical windows that face the sun." She can see "trees and hills and blue sky and all the things beyond the buildings and razor wire," she says. "My mind barely acknowledges the buildings anymore." She spends much of her time in the prison library, where she types up homework for a degree in political science. She works out in the gym and has a job in a woodworking shop, which she describes as "very fun, actually."
She says she hasn't faced harassment from inmates and has found some confidantes. "The guys here are adults ... There are some very smart and sophisticated people in prisons all across America — I don't think television and the media give them credit," she says. She gets visits from friends and relatives, including regular visits from her sister. The prison forbids visits from people Manning did not know prior to her confinement.
She receives letters from transgender people around the world. "I am always flattered that they feel that I have inspired them in some way," she says. "But honestly, I think it's the other way around: They inspire me more than I think they might realize." Birthday cards have reportedly arrived from designer Vivienne Westwood, REM's Michael Stipe, and Edward Snowden, who famously leaked documents from the National Security Agency and has claimed asylum in Russia
The article you quoted is from 2015 before at least one more suicide attempt and several months long scares when nobody was allowed to visit her or even see her. In this time her family and friend and even lawyer feared she might be dead.
That article also downplays the abuse she suffered in trying to transition.
Fun Fact: She didn't spend 8 years in solitary. She was placed in solitary for 14 days(7 suspended) after her suicide attempt. And was in 'defacto solitary' whatever that means for 9 months pre-trial.
Manning spent three years behind bars awaiting trial. She says nine months of that time were spent in de facto solitary confinement at a military base in Virginia — no personal items allowed. "I had to ask for permission to use a toothbrush, toothpaste, and toilet paper, and when I was done, I had to give these items back," she says. "I only got through it through humor. I just laughed at the entire situation. It became such a comical joke to me after a while. Unfortunately, you can't reason with absurdity. It's hard to lose your sanity when you're living in such an insane situation." After a public outcry, Manning was moved to Fort Leavenworth.
Today, Manning has her own cell with "two tall vertical windows that face the sun." She can see "trees and hills and blue sky and all the things beyond the buildings and razor wire," she says. "My mind barely acknowledges the buildings anymore." She spends much of her time in the prison library, where she types up homework for a degree in political science. She works out in the gym and has a job in a woodworking shop, which she describes as "very fun, actually."
She says she hasn't faced harassment from inmates and has found some confidantes. "The guys here are adults ... There are some very smart and sophisticated people in prisons all across America — I don't think television and the media give them credit," she says. She gets visits from friends and relatives, including regular visits from her sister. The prison forbids visits from people Manning did not know prior to her confinement.
She receives letters from transgender people around the world. "I am always flattered that they feel that I have inspired them in some way," she says. "But honestly, I think it's the other way around: They inspire me more than I think they might realize." Birthday cards have reportedly arrived from designer Vivienne Westwood, REM's Michael Stipe, and Edward Snowden, who famously leaked documents from the National Security Agency and has claimed asylum in Russia
The article you quoted is from 2015 before at least one more suicide attempt and several months long scares when nobody was allowed to visit her or even see her. In this time her family and friend and even lawyer feared she might be dead.
That article also downplays the abuse she suffered in trying to transition.
So you know.
Although they said they would cover the actual medical transition, so who knows how that specifically is going.
0
Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
See that doesn't sound bad at all! Those conditions are actually a hell of a lot nicer than what i thought (and what people on this board have claimed) Manning was in.
so all the people who were like "omg 7 years of torture", well, guess you're full of shit
See that doesn't sound bad at all! Those conditions are actually a hell of a lot nicer than what i thought (and what people on this board have claimed) Manning was in.
so all the people who were like "omg 7 years of torture", well, guess you're full of shit
If you dont think the 11 months straight of solitary confinment that the UN report on her treatment cited is torture that says more about you than anybody else.
See that doesn't sound bad at all! Those conditions are actually a hell of a lot nicer than what i thought (and what people on this board have claimed) Manning was in.
so all the people who were like "omg 7 years of torture", well, guess you're full of shit
You're being a jackass and you're going to get kicked out of this thread
+1
Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Yeah that was needlessly aggressive, sorry.
I still don't see the reasoning behind this aside from Manning being a left-wing cause célèbre. You're sentenced, you do your time, if you're really really sorry and promise not to do it again you get parole.
How good long prison sentences are at deterring crime is debatable.
Espionage is different than other crimes, both because of how incredibly damaging it is and because of the type of person who does it. The average murderer or thief isn't a narcissistic attention-seeker but you get a lot of those with spying. There's an acronym, MICE, which is Money, Ideology, being Compromised, and Ego. Long prison sentences discourage everything except being compromised- if you're a narcissistic asshole who wants fame or fortune, the possibility of spending most of your life in jail is a hell of a deterrent.
I still don't see the reasoning behind this aside from Manning being a left-wing cause célèbre. You're sentenced, you do your time, if you're really really sorry and promise not to do it again you get parole.
How good long prison sentences are at deterring crime is debatable.
Espionage is different than other crimes, both because of how incredibly damaging it is and because of the type of person who does it. The average murderer or thief isn't a narcissistic attention-seeker but you get a lot of those with spying. There's an acronym, MICE, which is Money, Ideology, being Compromised, and Ego. Long prison sentences discourage everything except being compromised- if you're a narcissistic asshole who wants fame or fortune, the possibility of spending most of your life in jail is a hell of a deterrent.
re the bolded: Why do you think the President even *has* pardon and commutation then.
And again she's already served way way more than usual.
The other important different between Snowden and Manning is IIRC Snowden had a much higher level of clearance than Manning. Manning only had "Secret" level clearance whereas Snowden had "Top Secret" clearance, thus anything he leaked would automatically be much more serious by the government's own metrics.
This is incorrect. As part of the process of becoming an All Source Analyst (as Manning was) one goes through the process of attaining a TS/SCI (Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information). This is so because an All Source Analyst can be working with information all the way from UNCLASS to TS Special Access Programs which require one to be read onto each individual program.
The TS does not give you access to everything, there is still "need to know". And a lot of the really "need to know" is hidden behind Special Access Programs.
Edit: There are only three "levels" of clearance (the DoE does their own thing), Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. But I have never met anyone who had only a Confidential clearance.
Marcus it would appear that Manning would be another example of your preference for simply hurting someone for no other reason than malice.
Now let's make something clear, I've argued fiercely that what she did was wrong, illegal, and that her conviction was fair.
What I don't agree with has been her years of cruel and unusual treatment. It accomplishes nothing and wastes tax dollars. And if we're honest would likely become even crueler under the next administration.
Given she'll never be in a position to repeat her actions I'm not sure what the opposition to commuting her sentence would be beyond petty cruelty. And if that's all then it's a flagrant disregard for the principles put forth by our constitution.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
Six years in prison is nothing now?
If anything, this shows potential whistleblowers that you'd better be in a country unfriendly to the US government when you leak secrets, because Snowden fared best due to fleeing fastest.
Or that whistleblowers should follow the process which exists rather than go outside the process and break the law.
Posts
One of the great ironies here is that unless Sweden gave into American pressure he would have been released years ago, but he's still in self imposed imprisonment in the embassy.
Trump can't do anything. He can't undo a commutation, and Manning can't be tried again. Manning's free as of May.
There is that little detail of becoming a convicted rapist in the process. Would be harmful for the brand.
Snowden has said in interviews he didn't know everything he was handing over to journalists and governments. Dude did a smash and grab and should answer for it.
So basically, nothing legally. Thanks.
Another irony is that he might not be convicted of anything. I'm not sure Swedish rape laws cover surprise unprotected sex beyond it needing to be investigated to it's conclusion. Accused rapist are frequently let go or given a slap on the wrist punishment because the victim wasn't saying no loudly enough type reasons.
It would also be a very bad precedent if he went after her. If for example Trump or someone on his team needed a pardon for the shit they have done or are going to do in the next 4 years.
yeah I don't know the exact shit he is accused of, but in general convictions on these types of crimes are low anyway.
though shit is not helped by the failure of the prosecution to work around his residency in an embassy
that and he (rightfully) worried about being blocked from travelling to another country in latin america for asylum.
I doubt anyone with power or influence in the GOP is giving the slightest bit of thought to precedent or consequences past the end of the quarter. However it occurs to me that setting her release a few months away means that she might end up being forgotten due to the aforementioned "not thinking past the end of the quarter" and Trump's lack of attention span so nothing stupid will be done to prevent the release.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/report-snowden-stayed-at-russian-consulate-while-in-hong-kong/2013/08/26/8237cf9a-0e39-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html
Also whatever else *cough*Putin*cough*puppet*cough* might come up.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The only debate is when Snowden became a useful idiot for Russia - only after Assange/Harrison of Wikileaks advised him to seek Russian protection or before he embarked on the entire process. I lean towards the latter given the inconsistencies in why Snowden went to HK in the first place and that Russia openly cooperating with him would not have been a snap decision.
edit but this is getting OT
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Ignoring the solitary confinement issue there is a deterrent argument. Though I think the the original sentence was "probation at 8 years" and since probation isn't typically seen as punitive it's hard to make the argument.
I'm still interested in his thoughts on the topic.
The bolded should never come into clemency decisions. If so then Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames should be out the moment they were convicted, since they'll never be a part of the intelligence community again. Like Guomindong says there's the deterrence factor to consider as well- if your high-minded ideals lead you to exposing massive amounts of U.S. secrets, then maybe you'll think twice after seeing that the last guy who did it was either in prison for most of their adult life or had to self-exile.
If the last person to do it was (in essence) pardoned after being lavished media attention and praise from the public, then hey! You can do it too and get to be a minor celebrity/media darling. In fact, thanks to this idiotic decision I fully expect this sort of treasonous exposing of secrets to pick up.
'Pfft 8 years, what a slap on the wrist!'
Give me a fucking break.
Six years in prison is nothing now?
If anything, this shows potential whistleblowers that you'd better be in a country unfriendly to the US government when you leak secrets, because Snowden fared best due to fleeing fastest.
Solitary confinement is not the solution for suicidal prisoners.
The bolded absolutely be considered as one of many factors when it comes to clemency. Eight years in, again unnecessary, solitary confinement isn't some light sentence. The deterrent to others is already fulfilled.
She did not get to enjoy being "lavished." She was in solitary confinement. At best she got to hear how much some people supported her. She also probably got told about the many other parts that hate her and send her regular death treats.
Maybe the wonders of weekly visits from your lawyer telling you some sections of the internet support you, others want you dead, and you're living in an isolated box for eight years tempts you. But I contend most people would not consider that an opportunity worth breaking the law for.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a38728/chelsea-manning-may-2015/
Here's Evidence That Insanely Long Prison Terms Are A Bad Way To Deter Crime
The article you quoted is from 2015 before at least one more suicide attempt and several months long scares when nobody was allowed to visit her or even see her. In this time her family and friend and even lawyer feared she might be dead.
That article also downplays the abuse she suffered in trying to transition.
So you know.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
Although they said they would cover the actual medical transition, so who knows how that specifically is going.
so all the people who were like "omg 7 years of torture", well, guess you're full of shit
If you dont think the 11 months straight of solitary confinment that the UN report on her treatment cited is torture that says more about you than anybody else.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
You're being a jackass and you're going to get kicked out of this thread
I still don't see the reasoning behind this aside from Manning being a left-wing cause célèbre. You're sentenced, you do your time, if you're really really sorry and promise not to do it again you get parole.
Espionage is different than other crimes, both because of how incredibly damaging it is and because of the type of person who does it. The average murderer or thief isn't a narcissistic attention-seeker but you get a lot of those with spying. There's an acronym, MICE, which is Money, Ideology, being Compromised, and Ego. Long prison sentences discourage everything except being compromised- if you're a narcissistic asshole who wants fame or fortune, the possibility of spending most of your life in jail is a hell of a deterrent.
re the bolded: Why do you think the President even *has* pardon and commutation then.
And again she's already served way way more than usual.
This is incorrect. As part of the process of becoming an All Source Analyst (as Manning was) one goes through the process of attaining a TS/SCI (Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information). This is so because an All Source Analyst can be working with information all the way from UNCLASS to TS Special Access Programs which require one to be read onto each individual program.
The TS does not give you access to everything, there is still "need to know". And a lot of the really "need to know" is hidden behind Special Access Programs.
Edit: There are only three "levels" of clearance (the DoE does their own thing), Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. But I have never met anyone who had only a Confidential clearance.
Or that whistleblowers should follow the process which exists rather than go outside the process and break the law.