It looks like Batman: Arkham VR is hitting the Rift and Vive on April 25th if it's something you're interested in.
I'm hoping to read the same for Psychonauts in the Rhombus of Ruin before long.
On a different note, has anything good/interesting been written about VR nausea and first person vs. third person? I'm currently playing Edge of Nowhere, and it does those things that supposedly are a big no-no (primarily, it moves the camera independently from the player), yet at least I've never had any problems with this outside of first-person view, which makes me think that my brain responds differently based on whether I'm supposed to be a person or a floating camera, so to speak.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
What about the edges of a set of goggles rather than a nose?
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
What about the edges of a set of goggles rather than a nose?
Funny, I was thinking glasses (I wear glasses so I'm always used to seeing those wherever I look)
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
What about the edges of a set of goggles rather than a nose?
Funny, I was thinking glasses (I wear glasses so I'm always used to seeing those wherever I look)
That would work too. I was thinking goggles, or maybe a helmet, to fit in with sci-fi type games, as they'd also be a natural fit to have a HUD projected inside.
I've heard in Artemis as the Captain you don't actually interact with anything, you just tell people what to do.
I wonder if it's the same in Star Trek.
This makes sense, but it just doesn't sound fun. From anyone who has played Artemis, is it any fun being captain?
God, yes. The thing is, everyone in their own separate roles have SO much to take care of on their own. You really need someone to look at the whole thing from top-down and issue commands and dictate general strategy. Also, the captain doesn't necessarily have to sit in front of nothing... our captains usually have a tactical map up or something similar to assist them.
This being said, you can usually merge the captain role with the helmsman or the weapons person, with fewer player counts.
I've heard in Artemis as the Captain you don't actually interact with anything, you just tell people what to do.
I wonder if it's the same in Star Trek.
This makes sense, but it just doesn't sound fun. From anyone who has played Artemis, is it any fun being captain?
Yes, I enjoy being captain a lot. I know others I've played with have also enjoyed being Captain. You basically are, by default, the center of attention. Everyone is trying to get your attention and get you to talk to them. You get the final say on what to do, you decide the strategy, etc etc.
For the most part, Artemis isn't hard to play. As in, the controls don't require all that much skill, not like an RTS or a fighting game or an FPS or something like that. It's all about the communication and the strategy, and the captain is the center of that.
I've heard in Artemis as the Captain you don't actually interact with anything, you just tell people what to do.
I wonder if it's the same in Star Trek.
This makes sense, but it just doesn't sound fun. From anyone who has played Artemis, is it any fun being captain?
Yeah, it's pretty fun because you gotta keep up with what everyone is doing and you then take that info and make all the command decisions and stuff. Artemis is pretty dang great
All good talk of spaceship bridge games made me think of that one space rts game where you play in a first person perspective from the bridge of your fleet's flagship, appropriately titled "Flagship." They ran an unsuccessful Kickstarter and so have just been working on it in their spare time. I looked on their website and they've had to make some cuts to the scope of their game (it's now more mission-based instead of an open, 4x-lite kind of game, which honestly sounds better to me. Makes me think of Homeworld), but it's still looking pretty great and they're still supporting VR so hopefully they'll one day finish it and I can play it.
I haven't played Artemis, but looking over the manual I think captain is supposed to be fun for the roleplaying, and a lot of that comes from having seen Star Trek in one iteration or another. From what I saw, the ship wouldn't really be too hard for one person to fly -- there are singleplayer games that have you control a starship, after all -- but displays and functions are purposely split up to create teamwork situations. I feel like if you have no interest whatsoever in the roleplaying and don't know what Star Trek is then the whole thing might fall flat.
It's pretty neat that they made the original Enterprise so different from the default ship. Most of what I know about Star Trek I picked up through cultural osmosis, but I think there's a mirror universe where everyone's aggressive and almost evil, and an alternate universe where the Klingon war was going badly? It could be neat to have another starship/set with a militarized feel and goatees.
Neat that it's cross platform compatible -- should ensure lots of people to play with.
I mean, ST: Bridge Crew is basically "Artemis: VR". And Artemis was basically "Star Trek Bridge Simulator (unofficial please don't sue us!)".
Artemis is amazing. Getting a polished, official version in VR? That has the potential to be one of the best VR games imo. I'm incredibly excited.
We've hosted a few Artemis party nights at our house and players generally tend to play for about 4 to 5 hours non-stop before fatigue sets in.
From experience, the Captain's role is the one that people are most nervous about, but once someone plays it, it's really REALLY hard to get them to take a different role. It's about as boring as being the conductor of a full orchestra. And like an orchestra, if the other players just do their own thing and don't follow the Captain's direction - like, for example, they might proactively do something, thinking it is the "right" thing to do, while the Captain was setting up a different plan of action - the whole thing falls apart.
I, for one, can play a pretty amazing weapons station. We'll have to see how much of that transfers over to ST:BC's tactical station. I've pre-ordered and am literally counting days.
Oh, and, the Engineering station in Artemis is HARD! It's probably the single most difficult position in the game. You pretty much have to know what the Captain is going to be doing, before he does it. If you get it right, everything goes like clockwork and you win. Get it wrong and everything else slows down, the ship wont turn/move fast enough to avoid getting hit, the weapons wont charge fast enough to win a fight, the shields won't repulse incoming fire, etc etc etc. I liken the Engineering station to the bassist in Rock Band. They're the most important person in the band: if they do well, no one notices them and the score is amazing; if they do poorly, everyone knows it, and the overall score suffers.
Edited to add: In the new UploadVR video, the engineering station is being controlled by a Ubisoft representative, so I'm guessing it is going to be pretty challenging. If that's the case, anyone who is really good at that particular station is going to be in high demand.
Oh, and, the Engineering station in Artemis is HARD! It's probably the single most difficult position in the game. You pretty much have to know what the Captain is going to be doing, before he does it. If you get it right, everything goes like clockwork and you win. Get it wrong and everything else slows down, the ship wont turn/move fast enough to avoid getting hit, the weapons wont charge fast enough to win a fight, the shields won't repulse incoming fire, etc etc etc. I liken the Engineering station to the bassist in Rock Band. They're the most important person in the band: if they do well, no one notices them and the score is amazing; if they do poorly, everyone knows it, and the overall score suffers.
I suck at Engineering.
Engineering is tricky, because at low difficulties you can pretty much just keep things mostly at the defaults and not notice the difference with a not-super-experienced crew. So it can kind of lull you into the sense that Engineering is both easy and boring. Even at higher levels, it's sometimes hard to pin failures on Engineering if the crew isn't very experienced because it's a layer removed from what's happening.
The biggest thing is you need a leader and the rest followers. If you got someone not the captain barking orders shit goes bad. Just trust the captain and if they mess up then just learn and retry. Always reminds me of the quote from Hellboy 2 "If you will not command, then you must obey"
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
Whatever nose-presence has to do with motion sickness is probably very limited. Nausea is triggered by incorrect reference points, and since your nose moves with you, that doesn't help much with establishing a frame of reference. VR third-person games seem to be able to move the camera more because the avatar serves as an external reference point (similar in concept to a ballerina focusing on one external point between spins, or the focus dot in Mirror's Edge). There might be something to explore in what kinds of reference points could be utilized in VR first-person games during more extreme artificial locomotion scenarios.
We'll get back there someday.
0
Drake ChambersLay out my formal shorts.Registered Userregular
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
Whatever nose-presence has to do with motion sickness is probably very limited. Nausea is triggered by incorrect reference points, and since your nose moves with you, that doesn't help much with establishing a frame of reference. VR third-person games seem to be able to move the camera more because the avatar serves as an external reference point (similar in concept to a ballerina focusing on one external point between spins, or the focus dot in Mirror's Edge). There might be something to explore in what kinds of reference points could be utilized in VR first-person games during more extreme artificial locomotion scenarios.
I thought the nose served the same role as a reference point, like the cockpit in games that have one (which, as I understand, aren't generally as nausea-inducing).
Isn't your nose just the visible part of the cockpit of your face?
Your nose is attached to your face and moves with you. A cockpit is locked in space around you. The latter gives you a frame of reference to match up to inner ear perception of orientation, and the former gives you no more information than you started with. If something is moving with you, it's not a reference point. It's... just more of you.
Eagle Flight has a "nose" (actually a beak) that to see as you fly around. It actually helps with VR discomfort quite a bit. A bit of a surprise but it seems to work.
Hey quick question - has anyone played Obduction in VR on GOG? I've got a Vive and have been waiting to play obduction in it (I backed it on kickstarter), but I'm kind of worried that getting the vive working on a gog game won't work as well, since I've only played stuff on steam with it.
The GOG page for obduction says "VR not available". Initially they only had oculus support, and only pushed that support to the oculus store version. It looks like they did the same thing with vive support and only released that version on Steam. No DRM-free VR I guess. Not optimal!
picked up a couple of games from the VR sale on Steam, grabbed Windlands VR minigolf (its.. alright) and Vive Spray which is pretty nice, was looking at comparisons with that and Kingspray.. the latter has more features it seems but vive spray seems to keep the UI really simple so you can switch colors etc quicker.
I played the Batman VR thing for the first time last night. It's been sitting unplayed on my shelf for a a solid two months. It was fun, but I'm not sure why people rave about it. The initial part about "putting on the cowl" didn't really grab me. At least not as much as I see people saying how amazing it "feels". Maybe I'm old and jaded? Who knows. I kinda figured out the plot about halfway through and was mostly just going through the motions after that.
I'll probably finish up the collectibles just so I can have it 100%. Too bad there is no actual platinum trophy.
0
LutExIVThieves Guild ChairmanIn the ShadowsRegistered Userregular
A couple of quick questions: Did Valve ever work out the Bluetooth issues with the Vive? I know early on it could cause problems, and I'm loathe to break my working system to test it but I need them notifications yo.
Also, with all this Artimus talk does it have fleshed out missions now? I played an early version that was just a group flying around in space it seems. I would love to put it in the game night rotation if it has improved.
A couple of quick questions: Did Valve ever work out the Bluetooth issues with the Vive? I know early on it could cause problems, and I'm loathe to break my working system to test it but I need them notifications yo.
Also, with all this Artimus talk does it have fleshed out missions now? I played an early version that was just a group flying around in space it seems. I would love to put it in the game night rotation if it has improved.
You can make custom missions, which I've never done. For the most part it's just really basic scenarios, ie "kill all the enemies that spawn," or "protect all the Base Stations." (Randomized maps and such of course.) Unless that's changed in the last year or so.
The GOG page for obduction says "VR not available". Initially they only had oculus support, and only pushed that support to the oculus store version. It looks like they did the same thing with vive support and only released that version on Steam. No DRM-free VR I guess. Not optimal!
Really, I missed that it says not available, I just didn't see it mentioned as supported anywhere. That's one reason I was hesitant, even though the Obduction website says that it's supported on all platforms. I guess I'll have to send some emails or check some other forums or something.
There's an Easter Sale on the PAL PSN store with plenty of VR games reduced in price, including a Dirt Rally VR bundle for 25 euro instead of 60+... I'm tempted though I suck at driving...
The GOG page for obduction says "VR not available". Initially they only had oculus support, and only pushed that support to the oculus store version. It looks like they did the same thing with vive support and only released that version on Steam. No DRM-free VR I guess. Not optimal!
Really, I missed that it says not available, I just didn't see it mentioned as supported anywhere. That's one reason I was hesitant, even though the Obduction website says that it's supported on all platforms. I guess I'll have to send some emails or check some other forums or something.
So it looks like the "No VR" on the page is only for the mac version, which they just released recently. It looks like the PC version on gog supports all the vr, including the vive and oculous touch.
Which makes me wonder if any games ever implemented that 'cybernose' thing, where the display gives you a nose at the edge of your vision, something you're not necessarily consciously aware of, but it anchors your perception sufficiently to lessen any feeling of nausea. At least I think that was the idea.
I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
What about the edges of a set of goggles rather than a nose?
Funny, I was thinking glasses (I wear glasses so I'm always used to seeing those wherever I look)
That would work too. I was thinking goggles, or maybe a helmet, to fit in with sci-fi type games, as they'd also be a natural fit to have a HUD projected inside.
Strange notion, but has there been a VR game with a character that requires glasses and can lose them? It'd be hard to implement (and possibly not at all fun), but it's neat to think of having the ability to blur the screen as a consequence of losing them. Though not being able to squint would make the whole thing a lot more binary and unpleasant.
One of the early DK1 era demos, Asunder, had a game-over where you died by gunshot, which was represented by suddenly losing sight in one eye before everything faded out to deep red. It was quite affecting!
I've been wanting to see a game use a material that showed a different color to each eye, or that cycled through impossible colors. Or a silent hill style game with monsters that could jitter into slightly different poses per-eye (like its legs and feet kept walking toward you, but the upper body was in two poses at the same time). There's a lot of interesting perceptual stuff that could be used for impact, but that would probably cause headaches if used too often.
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On a different note, has anything good/interesting been written about VR nausea and first person vs. third person? I'm currently playing Edge of Nowhere, and it does those things that supposedly are a big no-no (primarily, it moves the camera independently from the player), yet at least I've never had any problems with this outside of first-person view, which makes me think that my brain responds differently based on whether I'm supposed to be a person or a floating camera, so to speak.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
https://uploadvr.com/star-trek-bridge-crew-enterprise-preview/
Neat that it's cross platform compatible -- should ensure lots of people to play with.
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I'd like to see that implemented in something, it sounds interesting. It'd also be weird, seeing a nose that isn't mine, lol. No weirder than looking down and seeing a body that isn't mine, I suppose.
I mean, ST: Bridge Crew is basically "Artemis: VR". And Artemis was basically "Star Trek Bridge Simulator (unofficial please don't sue us!)".
Artemis is amazing. Getting a polished, official version in VR? That has the potential to be one of the best VR games imo. I'm incredibly excited.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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I think if it were really successfully implemented, you wouldn't feel that weirdness because it would seem like your own nose. Awareness of your own nose IRL is vague anyway, pretty much permanently relegated to peripheral vision unless you deliberately focus on it.
That said, I imagine that's part of the difficulty of successfully simulating a nose. You want it to be there, but just barely. Seems challenging.
Love artemis! The creator lives by me and brings his demo stations to our yearly board game fests (even though it's not a board game)
Steam: Archpriest
Streaming games and playing music
What about the edges of a set of goggles rather than a nose?
Funny, I was thinking glasses (I wear glasses so I'm always used to seeing those wherever I look)
Watch my music videos
That would work too. I was thinking goggles, or maybe a helmet, to fit in with sci-fi type games, as they'd also be a natural fit to have a HUD projected inside.
I wonder if it's the same in Star Trek.
This makes sense, but it just doesn't sound fun. From anyone who has played Artemis, is it any fun being captain?
Watch my music videos
This being said, you can usually merge the captain role with the helmsman or the weapons person, with fewer player counts.
Yes, I enjoy being captain a lot. I know others I've played with have also enjoyed being Captain. You basically are, by default, the center of attention. Everyone is trying to get your attention and get you to talk to them. You get the final say on what to do, you decide the strategy, etc etc.
For the most part, Artemis isn't hard to play. As in, the controls don't require all that much skill, not like an RTS or a fighting game or an FPS or something like that. It's all about the communication and the strategy, and the captain is the center of that.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Yeah, it's pretty fun because you gotta keep up with what everyone is doing and you then take that info and make all the command decisions and stuff. Artemis is pretty dang great
All good talk of spaceship bridge games made me think of that one space rts game where you play in a first person perspective from the bridge of your fleet's flagship, appropriately titled "Flagship." They ran an unsuccessful Kickstarter and so have just been working on it in their spare time. I looked on their website and they've had to make some cuts to the scope of their game (it's now more mission-based instead of an open, 4x-lite kind of game, which honestly sounds better to me. Makes me think of Homeworld), but it's still looking pretty great and they're still supporting VR so hopefully they'll one day finish it and I can play it.
It's pretty neat that they made the original Enterprise so different from the default ship. Most of what I know about Star Trek I picked up through cultural osmosis, but I think there's a mirror universe where everyone's aggressive and almost evil, and an alternate universe where the Klingon war was going badly? It could be neat to have another starship/set with a militarized feel and goatees.
From experience, the Captain's role is the one that people are most nervous about, but once someone plays it, it's really REALLY hard to get them to take a different role. It's about as boring as being the conductor of a full orchestra. And like an orchestra, if the other players just do their own thing and don't follow the Captain's direction - like, for example, they might proactively do something, thinking it is the "right" thing to do, while the Captain was setting up a different plan of action - the whole thing falls apart.
I, for one, can play a pretty amazing weapons station. We'll have to see how much of that transfers over to ST:BC's tactical station. I've pre-ordered and am literally counting days.
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And I never really role played as captain, still lots of fun
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Edited to add: In the new UploadVR video, the engineering station is being controlled by a Ubisoft representative, so I'm guessing it is going to be pretty challenging. If that's the case, anyone who is really good at that particular station is going to be in high demand.
I suck at Engineering.
Engineering is tricky, because at low difficulties you can pretty much just keep things mostly at the defaults and not notice the difference with a not-super-experienced crew. So it can kind of lull you into the sense that Engineering is both easy and boring. Even at higher levels, it's sometimes hard to pin failures on Engineering if the crew isn't very experienced because it's a layer removed from what's happening.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Steam: Archpriest
Streaming games and playing music
Whatever nose-presence has to do with motion sickness is probably very limited. Nausea is triggered by incorrect reference points, and since your nose moves with you, that doesn't help much with establishing a frame of reference. VR third-person games seem to be able to move the camera more because the avatar serves as an external reference point (similar in concept to a ballerina focusing on one external point between spins, or the focus dot in Mirror's Edge). There might be something to explore in what kinds of reference points could be utilized in VR first-person games during more extreme artificial locomotion scenarios.
I thought the nose served the same role as a reference point, like the cockpit in games that have one (which, as I understand, aren't generally as nausea-inducing).
Isn't your nose just the visible part of the cockpit of your face?
I'll probably finish up the collectibles just so I can have it 100%. Too bad there is no actual platinum trophy.
Also, with all this Artimus talk does it have fleshed out missions now? I played an early version that was just a group flying around in space it seems. I would love to put it in the game night rotation if it has improved.
Steam/PSN/XBox Live:LutExIV
You can make custom missions, which I've never done. For the most part it's just really basic scenarios, ie "kill all the enemies that spawn," or "protect all the Base Stations." (Randomized maps and such of course.) Unless that's changed in the last year or so.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Really, I missed that it says not available, I just didn't see it mentioned as supported anywhere. That's one reason I was hesitant, even though the Obduction website says that it's supported on all platforms. I guess I'll have to send some emails or check some other forums or something.
http://store.steampowered.com/vr/?snr=1_41_4__42
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
So it looks like the "No VR" on the page is only for the mac version, which they just released recently. It looks like the PC version on gog supports all the vr, including the vive and oculous touch.
Strange notion, but has there been a VR game with a character that requires glasses and can lose them? It'd be hard to implement (and possibly not at all fun), but it's neat to think of having the ability to blur the screen as a consequence of losing them. Though not being able to squint would make the whole thing a lot more binary and unpleasant.
I've been wanting to see a game use a material that showed a different color to each eye, or that cycled through impossible colors. Or a silent hill style game with monsters that could jitter into slightly different poses per-eye (like its legs and feet kept walking toward you, but the upper body was in two poses at the same time). There's a lot of interesting perceptual stuff that could be used for impact, but that would probably cause headaches if used too often.