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I love [VIRTUAL REALITY], it's so bad.

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    RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
    One side usually pays for testimony from experts they call themselves. The other side is free to call their own experts, and free to cross examine experts to cast doubt on their testimony.

    One assumes Oculus has enough money to properly do both, which is not always the case.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    Not knowing the specifics of the American legal system, would it have been possible for them to have had an expert witness who was more free of bias?
    Or do one of the sides/plaintiffs always have to pay for that person's time?

    I don't understand why only one side was able to hire an expert, either.

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    Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Newest PS4 firmware update (going in to beta now) allows for the playback of stereoscopic 3D blurays through PSVR. Should be fun to try, can't imagine watching a full movie though.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    Every time I try to order a PSVR bundle from Gamestop it gets canceled or it runs into a problem processing the order.

    My cards work everywhere else. They are up to something.
    Gamestop has been out of stock for months. I'm not sure that they actually have PSVRs to sell (yet). I mean, a GS exclusive bundle was announced, but that doesn't mean they actually have them (yet).


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    RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
    Kalahari Resorts, a tourist resort place a couple hours north of where I live just opened up what they're calling The Arena, which is licensed tech from Zero Latency VR;

    http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/08/this-is-zero-latency-the-future-of-immersive-gaming/

    So yeah, I'm pretty hyped about that.

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    Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    PrAyTeLLa wrote: »
    I'd bet that this expert isn't an experienced witness, FWIW, and those parts of his testimony will likely be used by the defense in their appeal.
    Its not a state secret who it would be, it was reported during the trial Zemimax hired David Dobbin, computer science professor from Princeton University.
    To clarify here -- I wasn't suggesting the guy wasn't experienced in the field (or that he was a "secret witness"?), but that he was inexperienced in the area of giving testimony in court.

    My commentary was also intended to be non-partisan. Some folks here are awfully fighty but I don't think I'm one of them.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    kime wrote: »
    I would never side with oculus, or its employees, on anything. Ever.

    That kinda just means your opinion doesn't really matter anymore since you've already decided in everything :?

    I agree with this whole heartedly! I'm increasingly starting to respect and appreciate his honesty though, because he's not pretending that he isn't ridiculously biased, and doesn't waste anyone's discussion time obfuscating that.

    Fiatil on
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    KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    I would never side with oculus, or its employees, on anything. Ever.

    That kinda just means your opinion doesn't really matter anymore since you've already decided in everything :?

    I agree with this whole heartedly! I'm increasingly starting to respect and appreciate his honesty though, because he's not pretending that he isn't ridiculously biased, and doesn't waste anyone's discussion time obfuscating that.

    On the flipside, does just stating "I hate Oculus" really contribute anything to the conversation?

    Not really.

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    GlyphGryphGlyphGryph Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    GORN is really fun when you give a second person a controller and work together to bust heads. One person holds, the other one punches!

    Also, GORN is still best VR.

    Order: GORN, Superhot, Tiltbrush, Unseen Diplomacy, Job Sim, The Lab

    I am still super sad that Brookhaven turned out to be such a shitty game after it had such a fun demo.

    What do you guys have for your "top experiences" list?

    GlyphGryph on
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    SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    GlyphGryph wrote: »
    GORN is really fun when you give a second person a controller and work together to bust heads. One person holds, the other one punches!

    Also, GORN is still best VR.

    Order: GORN, Superhot, Tiltbrush, Unseen Diplomacy, Job Sim, The Lab

    I am still super sad that Brookhaven turned out to be such a shitty game after it had such a fun demo.

    What do you guys have for your "top experiences" list?

    Elite: Dangerous, Arizona Sunshine, Vanishing Realms, Raw Data, Hover Junkers (though apparently the community became waaaaaay toxic on that one, and the servers are kind of a graveyard now)

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Kyanilis wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    I would never side with oculus, or its employees, on anything. Ever.

    That kinda just means your opinion doesn't really matter anymore since you've already decided in everything :?

    I agree with this whole heartedly! I'm increasingly starting to respect and appreciate his honesty though, because he's not pretending that he isn't ridiculously biased, and doesn't waste anyone's discussion time obfuscating that.

    On the flipside, does just stating "I hate Oculus" really contribute anything to the conversation?

    Not really.

    I agree. I'm not calling it good -- growing contrasts to his style have just made me dislike it less and less compared to some alternatives.

    Fiatil on
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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    The PlayStation site says a local GameStop has.a PSVR in stock. Gonna check it out.

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    TimFijiTimFiji Beast Lord Halfway2AnywhereRegistered User regular
    Rius wrote: »
    Kalahari Resorts, a tourist resort place a couple hours north of where I live just opened up what they're calling The Arena, which is licensed tech from Zero Latency VR;

    http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/08/this-is-zero-latency-the-future-of-immersive-gaming/

    So yeah, I'm pretty hyped about that.

    Are you and I Ohio neighbors?!

    Switch: SW-2322-2047-3148 Steam: Archpriest
      Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
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      KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
      VR is going to be the new bad thing.

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      RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
      TimFiji wrote: »
      Rius wrote: »
      Kalahari Resorts, a tourist resort place a couple hours north of where I live just opened up what they're calling The Arena, which is licensed tech from Zero Latency VR;

      http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/08/this-is-zero-latency-the-future-of-immersive-gaming/

      So yeah, I'm pretty hyped about that.

      Are you and I Ohio neighbors?!

      Ha, nah, I'm in Wisconsin. Talking about the one in the Dells =)

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      crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
      Syngyne wrote: »
      GlyphGryph wrote: »
      GORN is really fun when you give a second person a controller and work together to bust heads. One person holds, the other one punches!

      Also, GORN is still best VR.

      Order: GORN, Superhot, Tiltbrush, Unseen Diplomacy, Job Sim, The Lab

      I am still super sad that Brookhaven turned out to be such a shitty game after it had such a fun demo.

      What do you guys have for your "top experiences" list?

      Elite: Dangerous, Arizona Sunshine, Vanishing Realms, Raw Data, Hover Junkers (though apparently the community became waaaaaay toxic on that one, and the servers are kind of a graveyard now)

      Elite: Dangerous has quickly sprung to among the top things I enjoy in vr. VR just adds so much to a game I already like a whole bunch. I'm very nearly to the point where I've spent more time in that game with my headset on than I had previously. It's also probably the one vr title I've spent the most time in.

      Personally, I still really like Space Pirate Trainer, and I always forget about GORN despite enjoying it a lot (I should just add it to my steam list so it reminds me it's there).

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      Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
      Krathoon wrote: »
      VR is going to be the new bad thing.

      The Wizard 2 confirmed.

      Steam: Sir_Grinch
      PSN: SirGrinchX
      Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
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      KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
      edited February 2017
      Riddle me this. I can pre-order a PSVR bundle at the GameStop store, but it will not allow me online.

      Still, I had to make a $100 deposit.

      Krathoon on
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      DracilDracil Registered User regular
      Does it reject your card? I had the same issue for the longest time. Eventually it started working again.

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      TubeTube Registered User admin
      A reminder that console wars bullshit is expressly forbidden.

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      KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
      Dracil wrote: »
      Does it reject your card? I had the same issue for the longest time. Eventually it started working again.

      When I tried my credit card it said, "Oops. A problem occurred with your transaction."

      Before that, I used my debit card and PayPal account. In those cases, they made the order, but cancelled it 20 minutes later.

      Now, I go to the store and it works.

      Way too much effort just to buy something.

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      DracilDracil Registered User regular
      Oculus update is out with the tracking fixes, though results seem to be mixed with some people saying it's better and some saying it's worse.

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      DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
      edited February 2017
      Dracil wrote: »
      Oculus update is out with the tracking fixes, though results seem to be mixed with some people saying it's better and some saying it's worse.

      Better, for me. I don't get the little microstutters that made drawing in Quill or tracing a plane flight in Final Approach occasionally tricky. It wasn't often, but every ten minutes or so one of the lines would get a little random zigzag in it as I was tracing it. Unnoticeable in any other kind of game, but in Final Approach it happened frequently enough to be irritating, and infrequently enough that I couldn't pin down any regular cause or spot in my room where it happened. Now that's gone - played an hour of Final Approach and it was completely fine.

      That was the only issue I was having, though I know many people had much worse problems.

      My speculation is that those who had good tracking will see small improvements, those who had bad tracking will likely not because their tracking issues were more likely hardware issues, whether their fault or not.

      Dhalphir on
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      DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
      Played some more Arizona Sunshine with joystick locomotion.

      Still not convinced by it. I don't like that my head direction controls the movement.

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      Corporal CarlCorporal Carl Registered User regular
      There's a VR Ping Pong game coming out on PS4. Does anyone know whether it'll support online multiplayer?

      PSN (PS4-Europe): Carolus-Billius
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      PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
      I am PikaPuff and I approve of this thread title.

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      TimFijiTimFiji Beast Lord Halfway2AnywhereRegistered User regular
      Dhalphir wrote: »
      Played some more Arizona Sunshine with joystick locomotion.

      Still not convinced by it. I don't like that my head direction controls the movement.

      Head controls direction? Eewww, and I was going to use it

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        DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
        TimFiji wrote: »
        Dhalphir wrote: »
        Played some more Arizona Sunshine with joystick locomotion.

        Still not convinced by it. I don't like that my head direction controls the movement.

        Head controls direction? Eewww, and I was going to use it

        I'm reading that it is possible to change that but haven't been able to work that out

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        TubeTube Registered User admin
        It doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to fixing the locomotion problem in VR. Nothing feels really natural. To me, teleporting feels like I'm playing Myst rather than existing in a contiguous universe.

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        StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
        edited February 2017
        So... I tried Eagle Flight for the first time last night. It really feels like a major step in the right direction for locomotion control. You can look around and it changes the direction you move slightly, or you can tilt your head to turn in the direction of the tilt very quickly. The net result is that you can look around without changing direction by turning your head in one direction and tilting ever so slightly in the other direction. For example, I could look over my right shoulder, and by tilting my head slightly to the left (which happens quite naturally if you try it) the net result is that I keep going "straight" while looking to the side.

        And I've really come to prefer a look-to-aim scheme. It felt really weird at first; I kept wanting to use the right stick to look around. But now that I've been using it for a few months, look-to-aim feels completely natural.

        It's not a great game, and I wouldn't claim that everyone needs to try this (I would say that about Werewolves Within!) but it certainly has a lot more of the first generation experimentation feel to it than a lot of the other stuff I've tried. It's almost like the design was based on making a VR game rather than "how do we make this traditional game in VR?"

        Stupid on

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        Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
        Tube wrote: »
        It doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to fixing the locomotion problem in VR. Nothing feels really natural. To me, teleporting feels like I'm playing Myst rather than existing in a contiguous universe.

        Roomscale seems to be the 'wow' experience that gets public buy in, but I still think the natural VR application is cockpit sims. Elite: Dangerous and iRacing are my two most played VR games.

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        ThirithThirith Registered User regular
        Tube wrote: »
        It doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to fixing the locomotion problem in VR. Nothing feels really natural. To me, teleporting feels like I'm playing Myst rather than existing in a contiguous universe.
        IMO the problem is that people have vastly different reactions to different approaches to the problem. Some find turning sharply at predefined angles works, others hate it. Some get violently sick when using regular gamepad movement, others have no issues whatsoever (see Resident Evil 7). While some games might work with offering various options (I'm thinking of environmental puzzlers along the lines of The Witness, if that one had proper VR support), others need to be balanced with their specific locomotion options in mind.

        Other than that, I don't think the Holy Grail is fixing the locomotion problem (even though it is a problem and needs to be addressed) so much as finding gameplay that isn't a 1:1 copy of regular, KBAM/gamepad gaming and that plays to the strengths of VR. Take something like SUPERHOT, which in its VR form offers gameplay that feels entirely different from its non-VR counterpart. It's a short game, and it's a game that focuses on very specific gameplay, but right now I'm more excited about creative gameplay than about trying to fit conventional gameplay into VR. We need both, but IMO we need more conversations about the former, because most of the conversations I've seen focus on the latter.

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        "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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        TubeTube Registered User admin
        Nova_C wrote: »
        Tube wrote: »
        It doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to fixing the locomotion problem in VR. Nothing feels really natural. To me, teleporting feels like I'm playing Myst rather than existing in a contiguous universe.

        Roomscale seems to be the 'wow' experience that gets public buy in, but I still think the natural VR application is cockpit sims. Elite: Dangerous and iRacing are my two most played VR games.

        I don't think either roomscale or cockpits are going to support mainstream VR, and it needs to be mainstream at some point to support the level of financial investment.

        Room scale because most people don't have the room, or the inclination to make room. We've already seen things like the Kinect fail as gimmicks because people simply aren't interested in clearing a bunch of shit out of the way every time they want to play a game. Developers aren't going to sell a game that requires more than a minimum of space because they're limiting their market too much.

        Cockpits, on the other hand, have never been that popular. Elite Dangerous was a smash hit by space sim standards and has "only" sold around 2 million copies, the vast majority of which will never involve a VR headset. Racing simulators are similarly niche, the odd one like Forza does pretty well but only because it's a relatively small market. Cockpits get you plane games, space games, racing games, mech games and then... what else? It won't bear the cost of the hardware

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        Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
        Tube wrote: »
        Nova_C wrote: »
        Tube wrote: »
        It doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to fixing the locomotion problem in VR. Nothing feels really natural. To me, teleporting feels like I'm playing Myst rather than existing in a contiguous universe.

        Roomscale seems to be the 'wow' experience that gets public buy in, but I still think the natural VR application is cockpit sims. Elite: Dangerous and iRacing are my two most played VR games.

        I don't think either roomscale or cockpits are going to support mainstream VR, and it needs to be mainstream at some point to support the level of financial investment.

        Room scale because most people don't have the room, or the inclination to make room. We've already seen things like the Kinect fail as gimmicks because people simply aren't interested in clearing a bunch of shit out of the way every time they want to play a game. Developers aren't going to sell a game that requires more than a minimum of space because they're limiting their market too much.

        Cockpits, on the other hand, have never been that popular. Elite Dangerous was a smash hit by space sim standards and has "only" sold around 2 million copies, the vast majority of which will never involve a VR headset. Racing simulators are similarly niche, the odd one like Forza does pretty well but only because it's a relatively small market. Cockpits get you plane games, space games, racing games, mech games and then... what else? It won't bear the cost of the hardware

        Yep, absolutely.

        It's quite possible that the thing that takes VR mainstream, should it ever do so, will not be gaming.

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        ThirithThirith Registered User regular
        Did anyone mention porn?

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        "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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        SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
        Did Kinect ever have anything really worth clearing out the space for though? I think that a lack of compelling software was a bigger driver there. Space requirements for room scale stuff are pretty difficult for a lot of people though.

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        RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
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        TubeTube Registered User admin
        Thirith wrote: »
        Did anyone mention porn?

        That's going to sell neither hardware nor pornography

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        darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
        Tube wrote: »
        Thirith wrote: »
        Did anyone mention porn?

        That's going to sell neither hardware nor pornography

        certainly not at the price point for things like Oculus and Vive. GearVR... google cardboard.. the low end stuff.. sure I could see someone picking one up for some 360 porn. Maybe if there is some really amazing umm.. Haptic feedback in the near future I could see something pop up. :D

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        Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
        Mr_Grinch wrote: »
        Newest PS4 firmware update (going in to beta now) allows for the playback of stereoscopic 3D blurays through PSVR. Should be fun to try, can't imagine watching a full movie though.

        I can't wait for this. I heard Doctor Strange was awesome in 3D, but I never found the time to go and see it in theatres, so I definitely plan on watching it in VR with a bowl of popcorn and bottle with a built-in straw. I beat RE7 with about an average 2 hours a night in VR, so a movie is no problem.

        There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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