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The [Muslim Ban] and other Trump immigration policies and actions

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Posts

  • GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Of course this isn't as dire as the Muslim Ban, or the Mexican deportations, but it's still worrying

    Canadian Nurses who work in the US have been having great difficulty getting across the border.

    Not only do many women and men I know are now in workplace limbo, but the American hospitals are suffering as well, since there's a large number of nurses that have worked in the US, often for decades.

    Yeah this is exactly why isolationist, nationalist, racist policies only hurt the country that institutes them. I absolutely foresee an enormous brain drain from the US over the next number of years as these kind of policies get ramped up and aren't curtailed. The chief technology officer of the Indian foreign ministry has already said that stopping H1-B visas is great for India cause it'll keep highly knowledgeable and skilled workers in India and cause a reverse brain drain from US tech companies to India's burgeoning software industry.

    Counterpoint is (and this is what stops me from seeing a 1933 Germany-like brain drain) the USA is where the money for research is

    Some, perhaps even a lot, Indian engineers may prefer coming to the USA even with all the hassle

    Isn't that money for research a thing they're cutting back on?
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/health/trump-budget-medical-science-huge-cuts/

    Basic science is a hard sell to fascists and authoritarians. Mostly because you can't make concrete predictions about the benefits of knowledge that you don't have yet.
    It's why I hear why justifying budget proposal is a bit of a silly game. Oh yes, this antimatter stuff could have uhhh applications for propulsion or energy?
    I mean the real reason is that it's kinda cool and novel and hasn't been fully explored yet, but you know.

    It really smacks of financially irresponsible hippie socialism that conservatives hate.
    Like that is a literal argument I've heard. If basic science can't compete in the free market, then it has no place. Well, you probably get why that argument is fucking stupid already. But science is just another casualty of that line of thinking.

    None of this addresses my original point

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending

    Even with all the catastrophic trump budget cuts, the us would be in a much better position than India

    Indian engineers are not going to stay in India because there's no money for research there

    One should remember the present Indian national government is to the right, and is perhaps even more racist than, trump's

    Declarations by agents of modi's governments should be treated with the same respect due to Sean splicers'

  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited March 18
    China is #2 on that list. Germany is a big enough spender that it gets a separate entry two places down from the EU.
    Can't speak to the economics of science though. Whether or not people will simply jump ship or lose their jobs with nowhere to go isn't something I can tell you about.

    Twenty Sided on
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Gator wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    Of course this isn't as dire as the Muslim Ban, or the Mexican deportations, but it's still worrying

    Canadian Nurses who work in the US have been having great difficulty getting across the border.

    Not only do many women and men I know are now in workplace limbo, but the American hospitals are suffering as well, since there's a large number of nurses that have worked in the US, often for decades.

    Yeah this is exactly why isolationist, nationalist, racist policies only hurt the country that institutes them. I absolutely foresee an enormous brain drain from the US over the next number of years as these kind of policies get ramped up and aren't curtailed. The chief technology officer of the Indian foreign ministry has already said that stopping H1-B visas is great for India cause it'll keep highly knowledgeable and skilled workers in India and cause a reverse brain drain from US tech companies to India's burgeoning software industry.

    Counterpoint is (and this is what stops me from seeing a 1933 Germany-like brain drain) the USA is where the money for research is

    Some, perhaps even a lot, Indian engineers may prefer coming to the USA even with all the hassle

    Isn't that money for research a thing they're cutting back on?
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/health/trump-budget-medical-science-huge-cuts/

    Basic science is a hard sell to fascists and authoritarians. Mostly because you can't make concrete predictions about the benefits of knowledge that you don't have yet.
    It's why I hear why justifying budget proposal is a bit of a silly game. Oh yes, this antimatter stuff could have uhhh applications for propulsion or energy?
    I mean the real reason is that it's kinda cool and novel and hasn't been fully explored yet, but you know.

    It really smacks of financially irresponsible hippie socialism that conservatives hate.
    Like that is a literal argument I've heard. If basic science can't compete in the free market, then it has no place. Well, you probably get why that argument is fucking stupid already. But science is just another casualty of that line of thinking.

    None of this addresses my original point

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending

    Even with all the catastrophic trump budget cuts, the us would be in a much better position than India

    Indian engineers are not going to stay in India because there's no money for research there

    One should remember the present Indian national government is to the right, and is perhaps even more racist than, trump's

    Declarations by agents of modi's governments should be treated with the same respect due to Sean splicers'

    1) Cutting grants also cuts the kind of things that let laboratories and universities bring in new scientists
    2) Cutting things like the Superfund cleanup and Great Lakes Restoration also cuts off thousands of jobs, including a lot of research and related projects.
    3) Signaling that the US is not going to support research in the future leads researchers to stop taking risks on projects that require grants. If you know that the government is going to be hostile to people looking for research grants, then you don't get approval to seek funds for the project.
    4) Being better than India? There's four other regions between the US and India on that chart and any one of them is easier to get to than the US.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    So, I think this is the right thread for this:

    US Custom and Border Protections has released the desired specs for The Wall
    Late Friday, the agency released specifics for the first time on how tough the barrier must be. CBP posted online two different options for contractors: one proposal must be for a solid concrete wall, another is for a wall with "a see-through component/capability" that is "operationally advantageous."

    "The wall design shall be physically imposing in height," the CBP outlines say. The government says its "nominal concept" is for a 30-foot-high wall, but adds that designs as low as 18 feet "may be acceptable."

    It also needs be unclimable, cannot be tunneled under (i.e. has to extend another 6 feet underground) and impevrious to pretty much any hand-held tools (including sledgehammers, oxy/acetylene torches, and... car jacks?)

    ...and for the line that had me for a second thinking I had a really good St. Patrick's Day celebration and it's actually April 1st:
    It has to look good, too. "The north side of wall (i.e. U.S. facing side) shall be aesthetically pleasing in color, anti-climb texture, etc., to be consistent with general surrounding environment," the CBP says. There's no mention of the aesthetics on the Mexican side.

    Big, Beautiful Wall, he said. And he actually meant beautiful...

    I know this is suppose to be some terrible thing and the greatest waste of government spending for a long while but... I can't stop giggling at this thing, it's just so ridiculous, even the fact that we might actually try to build the thing can't stop the laughter.

    So they really are going for the 50 billion dollar plan...

    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but cartels and coyotes aren't going to be using hand tools if they want to get through a spot, the thing better hold up to a shaped charge if they don't want it to be swiss cheese after a few years.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
    Guys, please link this to immigration policy, or go ahead and discuss in the budget thread re: science and research funding getting cut.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina women until he saw 'proof of residency'
    Before he could serve the four Latina women, he said, they needed to show proof of residency. "I need to make sure you're from here," he said.

    It's kind of interesting which of these stories are filtering through over here.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina women until he saw 'proof of residency'
    Before he could serve the four Latina women, he said, they needed to show proof of residency. "I need to make sure you're from here," he said.

    It's kind of interesting which of these stories are filtering through over here.

    The tenor of the rhetoric defending this will be that it's just a matter of personal conscience or something.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina women until he saw 'proof of residency'
    Before he could serve the four Latina women, he said, they needed to show proof of residency. "I need to make sure you're from here," he said.

    It's kind of interesting which of these stories are filtering through over here.

    The tenor of the rhetoric defending this will be that it's just a matter of personal conscience or something.

    Isn't racial discrimination a protected religious belief?

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus My baby, please show you to me fast. Registered User regular
    He was fired, by the way.

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  • OghulkOghulk Be Humble Sit DownRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    Not everyone running a business is a logic driven computer. Personal biases, bigotry, dogma, spite and a bunch of other shit can lead an otherwise sane company to doing things that are terrible for business.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    Depends on your business. Restaurants are not generally in a position to successfully discriminate.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    A lot of small businesses are started under the impetus of being your own boss. Which is the polite way of saying you don't want anyone telling you what to do. Sometimes that includes being told things like "stop being a bigot".

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    Yeah, from what I can tell the restaurant handled this perfectly. Fired the dude, apologized to the women, offered them free grub, donated a significant amount of money to the charity of their choice.

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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Oh
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    Sometimes it doesn't hurt your business, if there's a significant clientele of people who agree with your discrimination.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    Well to be fair the business friendly side of the American right kind of just wants the crazy far right to shut up so they can continue to make obscene amounts of money.

    NartwakLoisLaneEdith UpwardsEinzel
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Oh
    Oghulk wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    He was fired, by the way.

    This is what I don't get about businesses.

    Like, discriminating hurts your god damn business. Why would you want that???

    Sometimes it doesn't hurt your business, if there's a significant clientele of people who agree with your discrimination.

    Especially when you have a wealthier clientele you want to court and job discrimination affects who has the wealth. See: country clubs.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    The restaurant article makes me angry.

    This is also the perfect example of why things are better when racist goobers are expected to keep their opinions to themselves and feel like it's unacceptable to act on their views.

    "Well people are still racist, they just don't talk about it now. You're not solving anything."

    It may not cure the disease, but it definitely improves quality of life.

    The weird way in which xenophobia and political ideology have intersected on the side of fascism and creation of policy aren't really new. I just don't think it's been this acceptable in my lifetime before. It's hard knowing how to react in a real sense.

    Obviously internally I find myself saying, "That's not how that works!". It's just hard to leverage that emotion into an argument with actual words that capture things.

    It's like trying to explain what chewing on aluminum foil tastes like.

    Edit:Draft Goof

    dispatch.o on
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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    You can't actually call Trump a fascist without other liberals telling you that this racism-shaming is what drove people to the right to begin with.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    CNN's Jim Acosta with a new poll about undocumented immigrants



    And of course the President responds

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  • OghulkOghulk Be Humble Sit DownRegistered User regular
    Trump's comment aside, 90% is a pretty ridiculously high number to have for a poll.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Perhaps it's the same 3 million illegal voters?

    Are we ever going to get the proof of that, by the way?

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    CNN's Jim Acosta with a new poll about undocumented immigrants



    And of course the President responds


    Seriously how is it cool for him to constantly be shilling for Fox news?

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    He has to be helping CNN's ratings by talking about them constantly.

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Shark of Positivity Zora's DomainRegistered User regular
    Perhaps it's the same 3 million illegal voters?

    Are we ever going to get the proof of that, by the way?

    Hahahahahaha no

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    What does that even mean? Patients die when you don't stop symptoms. You can't just "cure" everything.

  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Shark of Positivity Zora's DomainRegistered User regular
    That's a garbage rule and they know it, least of all because of how many electronics would get destroyed in checked baggage.

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  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    I guess we have no way of knowing, but is this because of a credible threat that they've uncovered, or do they just want to be dicks?

  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Maximum wrote: »
    I guess we have no way of knowing, but is this because of a credible threat that they've uncovered, or do they just want to be dicks?

    If there is a specific threat no one has mentioned it.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Oh I didn't see this box. Registered User regular
    Maximum wrote: »
    I guess we have no way of knowing, but is this because of a credible threat that they've uncovered, or do they just want to be dicks?

    My money's on "racist dicks"

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Shark of Positivity Zora's DomainRegistered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Maximum wrote: »
    I guess we have no way of knowing, but is this because of a credible threat that they've uncovered, or do they just want to be dicks?

    If there is a specific threat no one has mentioned it.

    I think the two EOs from the fuckin' President is enough mentioning.

    It's profiling.

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  • OghulkOghulk Be Humble Sit DownRegistered User regular
    Wait

    what?

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Even if a threat does exist restrictions against specific carriers make no sense as they have nothing to do with passenger screening.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    I would say that this is just a way of removing potential recording of negative treatment, but they let people have their phones so I dunno.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    I'm lacking a bit of context. This new rule about electronics is not happening to other airlines?

  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    I'm lacking a bit of context. This new rule about electronics is not happening to other airlines?

    So far it's 12 airlines affected, all based in the Middle East or Africa.

    Fencingsax
  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    The war on sanctuary cities begins


    DHS releases names local jails that won't hold immigrants

    The Trump administration is naming some names in its efforts to shame local jails that don't cooperate with immigration authorities.

    For now it's putting the spotlight on Travis County, Texas, home of liberal Austin.

    The administration has released a list of 206 cases of immigrants released from custody before federal agents could intervene. Roughly two-thirds were from Travis County.

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  • Mr KhanMr Khan Piece of cake. HyruleRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Maximum wrote: »
    I guess we have no way of knowing, but is this because of a credible threat that they've uncovered, or do they just want to be dicks?

    My money's on "racist dicks"

    Honestly i think it's credible threat, otherwise Trump would be flogging it as making America safer while congress whines about Russia or something.

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