Yeah that time you hit me with calamity was one of those "what level are we? 10? oh shit" moments. I got hit by your wave of force and started chasing before realizing that I hadn't even picked an ult yet. By that point, too late! Haha.
Warhead Junction is so bad, they desperately need a map ban feature with this many maps so I never have to see it again. It's just a horrible trashfire of a map that has literally zero redeeming qualities.
tbh I'd like to remove both the starcraft maps from the game, but warhead junction is just awful.
Warhead Junction is pretty awesome.
Better then Braxis.
shryke on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
warhead junction did feel pretty crap last time I played it tbh
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I really like Braxis, Towers, and Warhead because those maps require players to have a good understanding of trade-offs, teamwork, and strategy.
I really hate Braxis, Towers, and Warhead because those maps require my teammates to have a good understanding of trade-offs, teamwork, and strategy.
Warhead Junction is so bad, they desperately need a map ban feature with this many maps so I never have to see it again. It's just a horrible trashfire of a map that has literally zero redeeming qualities.
tbh I'd like to remove both the starcraft maps from the game, but warhead junction is just awful.
Warhead Junction is pretty awesome.
Better then Braxis.
Warhead Junction is just too big to be a heroes map that you can play with randos.
The rotations take forever, the map objectives are always all over the place, players are never doing the right thing, I just hate it.
I don't like Braxis very much either, but mostly for QM though. That map is way too dependent on strong waveclear. You can know to draft into it in the draft modes, but lol you have a single target team and a single big wave can push a keep.
edit: played a game against varian/valeera/uther 3 stack in unranked. That shit is impossibly toxic and they need to add diminishing returns on CC or something, because being stunlocked for literally 6 seconds from anywhere is impossibly stupid. You cannot play a warrior into that comp without a medivh, because you will die from basically any positioning and there is nothing you can do about it.
Warhead Junction is so bad, they desperately need a map ban feature with this many maps so I never have to see it again. It's just a horrible trashfire of a map that has literally zero redeeming qualities.
tbh I'd like to remove both the starcraft maps from the game, but warhead junction is just awful.
Warhead Junction is pretty awesome.
Better then Braxis.
edit: played a game against varian/valeera/uther 3 stack in unranked. That shit is impossibly toxic and they need to add diminishing returns on CC or something, because being stunlocked for literally 6 seconds from anywhere is impossibly stupid. You cannot play a warrior into that comp without a medivh, because you will die from basically any positioning and there is nothing you can do about it.
Insert joke here about that being a apt representation of WoW PvP.
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holy damn, you wanna see some scary shit, bloodlusted archon. Tassadar might hit like a wet noodle normally, but lusted archon fucks people up to a level I did not previously understand.
i was calling for a retreat when rag molten cored right on top of us, but tassadar said no. tassadar then killed 2 people underneath molten core, popped it, then killed ragnaros.
i understand why he has a 90% winrate in EU HGC right now. combined with his big lifesteal shields it's hard to kill anyone, and then he turns around and blows you off the face of the earth in teamfights.
Warhead Junction is so bad, they desperately need a map ban feature with this many maps so I never have to see it again. It's just a horrible trashfire of a map that has literally zero redeeming qualities.
tbh I'd like to remove both the starcraft maps from the game, but warhead junction is just awful.
Warhead Junction is pretty awesome.
Better then Braxis.
Warhead Junction is just too big to be a heroes map that you can play with randos.
The rotations take forever, the map objectives are always all over the place, players are never doing the right thing, I just hate it.
I find it works pretty well in QM because the objective and the size of the map forces you into a series of small skirmishes for much of the map which favours small group or solo play. As long as everyone knows to bumrush the nukes when they spawn, it works pretty well.
I also win on that map alot so I'm all for it.
I don't like Braxis very much either, but mostly for QM though. That map is way too dependent on strong waveclear. You can know to draft into it in the draft modes, but lol you have a single target team and a single big wave can push a keep.
Braxis rewards coordination and comp more. It's not just waveclear, you need beef. If your team has a weak front line and theirs doesn't, you are fucked on that map.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited February 2017
okay but what if you bloodlusted and stimmed archon tass
edit: throw in nano boost when they add in ana eventually, 5 support team go
Nothing screams fun like playing unranked and a diablo makes a single mistake and our leoric spends the next 3 minutes mercilessly berating him until he quits.
yay. we weren't even that far behind, he dove a boss he shouldn't have, but who cares.
i also didn't think 5 randos could get matched against a full 5 man, but we got ground to dust by a morales/gul'dan comp that banned malfurion, so we couldn't really fight. But we won a few fights mostly by when morales wasn't there and on braxis you can win a single fight and win the game. I'm honestly shocked the Leoric wasn't silenced, he must be one of those people who goes on and off silence forever, because that was one of the most unfortunate assholes i've played with.
And after all that, he wasn't even a very good leoric. Yawnnnnn.
i think people figured out taunt varian is total bullshit. i'm seeing taunt varian/valeera and taunt varian/li ming in every draft game and it is making me want to never play again.
it's too easy to get a free pick at this level. makes artanis swaps look like fucking piano uther difficulty level for similar if not greater effectiveness.
I don't know how to stop it, it's so easy and so hard to counter without pro level cleanse timing. I guess thinking about it, the solution is just to get the blow up heroes yourself and try to nuke varian off the face of the earth when he initiates? Since he kinda roots himself in the proccess.
Yeah chaining stuns and taunt is horrible because it offers no counterplay. You can certainly try to blow up Valeera/Varian while they do it but they're still pretty much guaranteed to get the kill so at worst they're looking at a 2-1 trade. But I've been QMing so this only happens to me sometimes. I will say that I'm feeling like there's too much stealth right now. Although it is hilarious when the stealthers think they're invisible and I'm artanis and I pull them over to their deaths.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah chaining stuns and taunt is horrible because it offers no counterplay. You can certainly try to blow up Valeera/Varian while they do it but they're still pretty much guaranteed to get the kill so at worst they're looking at a 2-1 trade. But I've been QMing so this only happens to me sometimes. I will say that I'm feeling like there's too much stealth right now. Although it is hilarious when the stealthers think they're invisible and I'm artanis and I pull them over to their deaths.
The number of stealthers in QM only feels oppressive when people don't know how to play against it and/or can't see the shimmer.
Which apparently is a large number of people, especially in QM, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What is hilarious is that I lost a game over the weekend when my team had two stealthers, and yet they were so bad that they wouldn't go after the same targets and just ended up feeding over and over again. You'd think Valeera would stop trying to gank Alarak by herself the first 5 times he swipes her and kills her, but nope. Gotta keep up that feed!
I have a hard time seeing stealth, especially on dark maps like GoT at night and in the mines.
I also have a 16:10 monitor so I have a fairly significantly smaller view than 16:9, so I have to rely a lot on the minimap for the edges of my screen and lol stealth.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'm actually quite good at spotting stealth, but I frankly have a hard time with Valeera. I just find the way she comes out of stealth jarringly different from the others, and I think it's partly that she has so much safety in her heroics that she can play comfortably in places the others couldn't. Like, it's real dumb that VP + Blink of Zeratul doesn't seem as safe as trait-activated stealth + Smoke Bomb.
Biggest thing missing from there is talking to your teammates. In the draft lobby specifically. It is sort of mentioned but I think it deserves its own bullet point.
@Inquisitor77 and I tried a game of unranked the other day. Naturally when I asked for suggestions about bans (because of course no one was showing their potential picks) it was met with deafening silence.
I only ever draft with people from PA and generally one of us is the person designated to ban so we at least communicate in party chat or voice comm. I don't understand why you'd join draft lobbies and stay 100% silent. May as well play QM at that point since it is just as likely to be a crapshoot.
I guess simply because of trolls. Keeping quite keeps the bullseye off your back?
Sometimes I just don't feel like talking, but still want a relatively "normal" composition (on both sides), or just enjoy the draft experience in general. You can get at least some coordination just by showing what heroes you are comfortable playing, etc.
I don't expect people to regale me with their life story , but "what hero are you playing" bring responded to with silence and not even highlighting a hero is tiresome.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I also don't recall it takes any typing to click the hero(es) you would like to play and send a signal to your team. You don't have to say anything, but at least giving a heads up as to your preferences / comforts helps a lot, especially if you aren't the one in charge of bans. At that point the argument is the same - why not play QM if you aren't interested in coordinating?
I also don't recall it takes any typing to click the hero(es) you would like to play and send a signal to your team. You don't have to say anything, but at least giving a heads up as to your preferences / comforts helps a lot, especially if you aren't the one in charge of bans. At that point the argument is the same - why not play QM if you aren't interested in coordinating?
Well, QM gets you crazy comps often. There is a reason for wanting to play a "draft" game even if you don't want to contribute to the actual drafting. I'm not saying that not communicating at all (even hovering the hero(es) you want) is a good or appropriate thing to do. But your point here isn't really true, draft gives at least one other distinct difference from QM.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I believe you're erroneously assuming a universal level of competence that is definitely not present in the population. Having a bad comp without a support or tank is remarkably similar to having a bad comp with a support and tank. The main difference is you're now intentionally contributing a bad choice to the mix rather than having let the hand of fate thrust it upon you. :P
I also don't recall it takes any typing to click the hero(es) you would like to play and send a signal to your team. You don't have to say anything, but at least giving a heads up as to your preferences / comforts helps a lot, especially if you aren't the one in charge of bans. At that point the argument is the same - why not play QM if you aren't interested in coordinating?
Well, QM gets you crazy comps often. There is a reason for wanting to play a "draft" game even if you don't want to contribute to the actual drafting. I'm not saying that not communicating at all (even hovering the hero(es) you want) is a good or appropriate thing to do. But your point here isn't really true, draft gives at least one other distinct difference from QM.
Lemme tell you about the snap pick, no show, no tychus ban last pick cho'gall I had in one of my games over the weekend.
QM probably would have been better, heh. I'm willing to try all kinds of dumb shit in unranked, but for a hero as important as cho'gall is to draft around, throw me a bone man!
I believe you're erroneously assuming a universal level of competence that is definitely not present in the population. Having a bad comp without a support or tank is remarkably similar to having a bad comp with a support and tank. The main difference is you're now intentionally contributing a bad choice to the mix rather than having let the hand of fate thrust it upon you. :P
Well, you've changed the issue a little bit here. Sure, if someone doesn't communicate and pick something wacky where you now have a really bad composition, that would be unpleasant, yes. That's different than just not communicating though, which is still really annoying etc. don't get me wrong.
Also, I'm pretty sure I'd take "bad comp with healer & tank" over "bad comp without healer & tank," especially if the other team is going to have something somewhat normal.
Anyways. I don't disagree that you should put some level of effort in to coordinate with your team, even if it's just hovering the hero you want to play.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
At a base level, that isn't unfair. I'm sure I'm injecting personal bias into this, whereby draft is, to me, the thing you do when you actually want to try. Going into draft simply because you want a game that has all the roles is just too thin a rationale for me to embrace, though there are definitely people doing it.
My wife and I played Unranked draft the other day with us both picking last. Normally I play ETC, Muradin, Nova, or Xul. Our team already chose a tank, so I kept on Nova and changed to Xul occasionally. We both chatted up suggestions for bans and everything seemed to be OK.
Then the enemy team selected Zeratul and Tassadar. I knew then that Nova would be hard countered by those two, but I waited for the draft to finish. After they made their 4th picks, it was obvious that Nova wasn't going to be a good selection and, while I wanted to draft Xul, our team needed more ranged DPS. One of my teammates chimed in saying "Don't draft Nova with Tass!", but I had already switched to Raynor.
While we didn't win the game, Raynor was definitely the right call in the end. Watching HGC at dinner has certainly improved our drafting skills and made us better all-around players.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I mentioned this earlier but it was probably lost in the HGC comments - I have been going into draft games telling my teammates to pick for me and it has gone remarkably well. Not only do people communicate but it starts the game off on a positive note because they feel more invested in the outcome.
The best part is that I have never been put on a support. It's been heroes like Artanis, Rag, E.T.C., Thrall, and so on.
I had one Braxis game where our first pick went Rexxar and I was told to take E.T.C. with second pick. Can you believe it? A first pick "warrior" and my team still had the good sense to early pick one of the best tanks in the game! And then they started talking about making sure we had enough wave clear!
It was remarkable because we fell behind early but no one was toxic and we turned around a couple of late game fights to push through for a win.
Just finished watching the GFE vs. TempStorm HGC. What an amazing set of a games.
The 10 min game on Cursed Hollow was nuts. It felt like a lot of QM games where one team is a 5 man with the perfect comp and just stomps the other side. It seems crazy to me that GFE lost to Team Freedom after watching their play in that set. Maybe they didn't take the other series as seriously but for this one the knew they had to pull out all the stops.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Just finished watching the GFE vs. TempStorm HGC. What an amazing set of a games.
The 10 min game on Cursed Hollow was nuts. It felt like a lot of QM games where one team is a 5 man with the perfect comp and just stomps the other side. It seems crazy to me that GFE lost to Team Freedom after watching their play in that set. Maybe they didn't take the other series as seriously but for this one the knew they had to pull out all the stops.
On his stream later that night, Fan was saying
that it went against his brain to literally afk and do nothing. They practiced the strategy and he knew the right thing to do was to stay sieged and maintain the resistance, but every fiber in his being told him to never siege and stay mobile and juke skillshots.
Just finished watching the GFE vs. TempStorm HGC. What an amazing set of a games.
The 10 min game on Cursed Hollow was nuts. It felt like a lot of QM games where one team is a 5 man with the perfect comp and just stomps the other side. It seems crazy to me that GFE lost to Team Freedom after watching their play in that set. Maybe they didn't take the other series as seriously but for this one the knew they had to pull out all the stops.
On his stream later that night, Fan was saying
that it went against his brain to literally afk and do nothing. They practiced the strategy and he knew the right thing to do was to stay sieged and maintain the resistance, but every fiber in his being told him to never siege and stay mobile and juke skillshots.
I can imagine the hammer play style is never siege unless you are completely safe and he was just sitting in siege mid-lane pushing down their fort. Near the end when they were pushing in mid and he got gusted into a root, then lightening breathed and was like 'nah I am good just going to keep shooting now'. They did have a crazy beefy team though with the triple warrior. I do think that, that game might have gone slightly differently if Diablo had gone apoch though. Such an amazing game to watch though.
I also decided to try out the new Tass. This is the build http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/tassadar#hEQV that I have had the most success with. Once you hit 20, get Twilight Archon plus the extra dmg from Oracle you hit like a truck. In one game I was 2v1ing rexxar and azmo, wasn't able to kill them but that couldn't kill me either with permanent archon which really helps your self healing from shields.
Not the most healing-ist of builds but if you kill the other team you don't need healing. I found it really helps to concentrate on getting the quests done (obviously) but getting the increased radius and dmg on psi-storm seems to help a lot.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
... 997 rank points. I need 3 for my promotion game. That -5 personal rank adjustment can eat a bag of dicks. :P
Just finished watching the GFE vs. TempStorm HGC. What an amazing set of a games.
The 10 min game on Cursed Hollow was nuts. It felt like a lot of QM games where one team is a 5 man with the perfect comp and just stomps the other side. It seems crazy to me that GFE lost to Team Freedom after watching their play in that set. Maybe they didn't take the other series as seriously but for this one the knew they had to pull out all the stops.
On his stream later that night, Fan was saying
that it went against his brain to literally afk and do nothing. They practiced the strategy and he knew the right thing to do was to stay sieged and maintain the resistance, but every fiber in his being told him to never siege and stay mobile and juke skillshots.
I can imagine the hammer play style is never siege unless you are completely safe and he was just sitting in siege mid-lane pushing down their fort. Near the end when they were pushing in mid and he got gusted into a root, then lightening breathed and was like 'nah I am good just going to keep shooting now'. They did have a crazy beefy team though with the triple warrior. I do think that, that game might have gone slightly differently if Diablo had gone apoch though. Such an amazing game to watch though.
The Diablo ult
probably wouldn't have changed anything. The rest of GFE team was Dehaka, E.T.C., Zarya, and Rehgar. None of those targets are easy to kill. Out of everyone, maybe Rehgar would've been the best target, but he could just wolf out if things got hairy (and did, IIRC). But trying to focus down a Dehaka, E.T.C., or Zarya when they have the others to peel/shield for them is an exercise in futility, especially when Hammer is just dumpstering your team while you're doing it. Their thinking was probably that Diablo was the only one who could stay alive for longer than a few seconds, so he might as well try to do as much damage as possible.
Apoc only works as part of a larger wombo combo, because it doesn't do all that much damage on its own. TS's draft was Diablo, Falstad, Ragnaros, Malfurion, Zeratul. Without Rag's ability to delete a single target with Sulfuras, all they had was a bunch of CC with no actual damage - all combo with no wombo.
I don't think TS could have done anything. I think they got outdrafted hard and didn't realize what they were running into until it was too late. Like, look at their team. What ults or talents could they have picked that would've made the result any different? Hinterlands and Lava Wave? LUL.
taunt varian + tassadar + any healer and you can just quit the game.
a 16 second cooldown on a point and click ability that basically kills the enemy if your team is awake is almost vomit inducingly too strong and not fun to play against in any way shape or form.
and his giant hp pool makes him ludicrously hard to kill as all the best ways to chew through giant hp pools are AA based, and he doesn't give a shit about aa damage.
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I was wondering about that grenade...
Warhead Junction is pretty awesome.
Better then Braxis.
I really hate Braxis, Towers, and Warhead because those maps require my teammates to have a good understanding of trade-offs, teamwork, and strategy.
Warhead Junction is just too big to be a heroes map that you can play with randos.
The rotations take forever, the map objectives are always all over the place, players are never doing the right thing, I just hate it.
I don't like Braxis very much either, but mostly for QM though. That map is way too dependent on strong waveclear. You can know to draft into it in the draft modes, but lol you have a single target team and a single big wave can push a keep.
edit: played a game against varian/valeera/uther 3 stack in unranked. That shit is impossibly toxic and they need to add diminishing returns on CC or something, because being stunlocked for literally 6 seconds from anywhere is impossibly stupid. You cannot play a warrior into that comp without a medivh, because you will die from basically any positioning and there is nothing you can do about it.
Insert joke here about that being a apt representation of WoW PvP.
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i was calling for a retreat when rag molten cored right on top of us, but tassadar said no. tassadar then killed 2 people underneath molten core, popped it, then killed ragnaros.
i understand why he has a 90% winrate in EU HGC right now. combined with his big lifesteal shields it's hard to kill anyone, and then he turns around and blows you off the face of the earth in teamfights.
I find it works pretty well in QM because the objective and the size of the map forces you into a series of small skirmishes for much of the map which favours small group or solo play. As long as everyone knows to bumrush the nukes when they spawn, it works pretty well.
I also win on that map alot so I'm all for it.
Braxis rewards coordination and comp more. It's not just waveclear, you need beef. If your team has a weak front line and theirs doesn't, you are fucked on that map.
edit: throw in nano boost when they add in ana eventually, 5 support team go
I think bloodlusted and stimmed archon tass would just be one continuous laser like his normal form.
except unlike his normal form, it would hit for a billion dps.
Some of the easiest wins ever.
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wra
yay. we weren't even that far behind, he dove a boss he shouldn't have, but who cares.
i also didn't think 5 randos could get matched against a full 5 man, but we got ground to dust by a morales/gul'dan comp that banned malfurion, so we couldn't really fight. But we won a few fights mostly by when morales wasn't there and on braxis you can win a single fight and win the game. I'm honestly shocked the Leoric wasn't silenced, he must be one of those people who goes on and off silence forever, because that was one of the most unfortunate assholes i've played with.
And after all that, he wasn't even a very good leoric. Yawnnnnn.
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it's too easy to get a free pick at this level. makes artanis swaps look like fucking piano uther difficulty level for similar if not greater effectiveness.
I don't know how to stop it, it's so easy and so hard to counter without pro level cleanse timing. I guess thinking about it, the solution is just to get the blow up heroes yourself and try to nuke varian off the face of the earth when he initiates? Since he kinda roots himself in the proccess.
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The number of stealthers in QM only feels oppressive when people don't know how to play against it and/or can't see the shimmer.
Which apparently is a large number of people, especially in QM, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What is hilarious is that I lost a game over the weekend when my team had two stealthers, and yet they were so bad that they wouldn't go after the same targets and just ended up feeding over and over again. You'd think Valeera would stop trying to gank Alarak by herself the first 5 times he swipes her and kills her, but nope. Gotta keep up that feed!
I also have a 16:10 monitor so I have a fairly significantly smaller view than 16:9, so I have to rely a lot on the minimap for the edges of my screen and lol stealth.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5tsfqg/elo_hell_drafting_also_a_few_tips_for_ranking_up/
Biggest thing missing from there is talking to your teammates. In the draft lobby specifically. It is sort of mentioned but I think it deserves its own bullet point.
@Inquisitor77 and I tried a game of unranked the other day. Naturally when I asked for suggestions about bans (because of course no one was showing their potential picks) it was met with deafening silence.
I only ever draft with people from PA and generally one of us is the person designated to ban so we at least communicate in party chat or voice comm. I don't understand why you'd join draft lobbies and stay 100% silent. May as well play QM at that point since it is just as likely to be a crapshoot.
I guess simply because of trolls. Keeping quite keeps the bullseye off your back?
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Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Well, QM gets you crazy comps often. There is a reason for wanting to play a "draft" game even if you don't want to contribute to the actual drafting. I'm not saying that not communicating at all (even hovering the hero(es) you want) is a good or appropriate thing to do. But your point here isn't really true, draft gives at least one other distinct difference from QM.
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Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Lemme tell you about the snap pick, no show, no tychus ban last pick cho'gall I had in one of my games over the weekend.
QM probably would have been better, heh. I'm willing to try all kinds of dumb shit in unranked, but for a hero as important as cho'gall is to draft around, throw me a bone man!
Well, you've changed the issue a little bit here. Sure, if someone doesn't communicate and pick something wacky where you now have a really bad composition, that would be unpleasant, yes. That's different than just not communicating though, which is still really annoying etc. don't get me wrong.
Also, I'm pretty sure I'd take "bad comp with healer & tank" over "bad comp without healer & tank," especially if the other team is going to have something somewhat normal.
Anyways. I don't disagree that you should put some level of effort in to coordinate with your team, even if it's just hovering the hero you want to play.
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Then the enemy team selected Zeratul and Tassadar. I knew then that Nova would be hard countered by those two, but I waited for the draft to finish. After they made their 4th picks, it was obvious that Nova wasn't going to be a good selection and, while I wanted to draft Xul, our team needed more ranged DPS. One of my teammates chimed in saying "Don't draft Nova with Tass!", but I had already switched to Raynor.
While we didn't win the game, Raynor was definitely the right call in the end. Watching HGC at dinner has certainly improved our drafting skills and made us better all-around players.
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The best part is that I have never been put on a support. It's been heroes like Artanis, Rag, E.T.C., Thrall, and so on.
I had one Braxis game where our first pick went Rexxar and I was told to take E.T.C. with second pick. Can you believe it? A first pick "warrior" and my team still had the good sense to early pick one of the best tanks in the game! And then they started talking about making sure we had enough wave clear!
It was remarkable because we fell behind early but no one was toxic and we turned around a couple of late game fights to push through for a win.
On his stream later that night, Fan was saying
Not the most healing-ist of builds but if you kill the other team you don't need healing. I found it really helps to concentrate on getting the quests done (obviously) but getting the increased radius and dmg on psi-storm seems to help a lot.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The Diablo ult
Apoc only works as part of a larger wombo combo, because it doesn't do all that much damage on its own. TS's draft was Diablo, Falstad, Ragnaros, Malfurion, Zeratul. Without Rag's ability to delete a single target with Sulfuras, all they had was a bunch of CC with no actual damage - all combo with no wombo.
I don't think TS could have done anything. I think they got outdrafted hard and didn't realize what they were running into until it was too late. Like, look at their team. What ults or talents could they have picked that would've made the result any different? Hinterlands and Lava Wave? LUL.
a 16 second cooldown on a point and click ability that basically kills the enemy if your team is awake is almost vomit inducingly too strong and not fun to play against in any way shape or form.
and his giant hp pool makes him ludicrously hard to kill as all the best ways to chew through giant hp pools are AA based, and he doesn't give a shit about aa damage.